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Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Jul 07 - 07:39 AM But at least the Tyneham villagers weren't shipped off to some place thousands of miles away, dumped there, and not even allowed to go back to Dorset. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Liz the Squeak Date: 07 Jul 07 - 03:40 AM Did the American and British Governments intend to permanently dispossess the Ilois? They never say so, but think how much land annexed in the UK to practice for the D-day landings during WWII has been handed back to the original occupiers? I know that Tyneham villagers were promised their village back at the end of the war. They're still waiting. LTS |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: GUEST,meself Date: 06 Jul 07 - 08:16 PM (That last GUEST was me ... ) |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: GUEST Date: 06 Jul 07 - 08:12 PM Thanks for the update, McG. Just to clarify: it is the Foreign Office which is appealing the Appeal Court's decision, which was in favour of the Chagossians. Now it goes to the House of Lords. Disgraceful. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Jul 07 - 07:59 PM As I rather expect5ed the British Government haven't given up on trying to prevent those deported from Diego Garcia all those years ago return home (or rather to other islands a bit nearer home - the USA aren't going to let them go back to Diego Garcia whatever any court decides.) On June 24th they lodged another appeal against the decision of the Appeal Court - this times it goes to the House of Lords. If the judges there uphold the findings of the Appeal Court that this was a monstrous injustice, I wonder what other way they'll of stopping the exiles return? Here's more about it - 'Callous and heartless, but we will fight on' says Chagossian leader over Foreign Office appeal |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Folkiedave Date: 19 Jun 07 - 07:31 PM Sorry - strike that first sentence - it will make sense then....well you might not agree with it of course!! |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Folkiedave Date: 19 Jun 07 - 06:39 PM I have it in 1969 and it was a secession from a federation voted for 99.9% in favour of by the locals that sparked the "invasion". If you really believe that the Confederation of Island States really invited the American invasion of Grenada why did you write earlier "purportedly?" Six days later, the island was invaded by forces from the United States purportedly at the behest of Dame Eugenia Charles, of Dominica. The fact was that the Americans did not like the left-wing government and just like they did at the Bay of Pigs - they invaded. Any excuse would have done....... As far as Anguilla is concerned - the local people having been neglected for years by the UK voted in favour of leaving the St Kitts -run Confederation by something like 99%- 1%. So much for democracy...... |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Jun 07 - 06:18 PM How many of the people exiled from Diego Garcia can expect to be alive in 2016, let alone 2036? Assuming the "agreement" isn't extended. Meanwhile they have to get by on exile. A fate which was never hanging over the inhabitants of the Falklands, even if the Argentine flag had continued to fly over the islands. I think that is the more relevant comparison. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Steve Shaw Date: 19 Jun 07 - 06:17 PM Just a coupla small points. The Malvinas were nicked by the Brits in 1833. And look at a world map. Pretend you're an alien from Mars. Ask yourself this multiple-choice question as you view the layout of the map. "Should the miserable, freezing, sheep-infested Malvinas be associated with (a) the United Kingdom, (b) Argentina?" |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Teribus Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:54 PM Did the American and British Governments intend to permanently dispossess the Ilois? - If they did why the opt out in 2016 and why put an end date to the agreement for 2036. The American and British Governments had done similar deals in the past - those were connected to the lending of fifty old first world war destroyers during the Second World War. Did the Americans acting on the request of Grenada's neighbours intervene to permanently occupy the island of Grenada? No they did not. What was the intention of the Argentines invasion of the Falkland Isles? To permanently occupy the Islands. No comparison at all. By the bye, when RN ships of the "Yellowbird" Squadron deploy they normally fall under the operational control of either a US Navy Admiral or US Coast Guard out of Key West and Fort Lauderdale respectively depending upon tasks and station. So it is not surprising that the confederation of Island States that Grenada belonged to turned to the US for assistance in something that seriously troubled them. We actually did send a Task Force to "invade" Anguilla in 1968, but that was to save it from being taken over by US organised crime syndicates. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Folkiedave Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:12 PM Of course the American troops of Operation Urgent Fury were not invited by the sovereign country which they invaded. Had the new government been a right-wing casino opening American friendly, trade union bashing government producing low-wage goods for the American economy you could have sent invitations from every country in the world and the Americans would not have invaded. The Americans invaded a country of which the Queen was head of state, so did the Argentinians. The Americans invaded a country without so much as a by-your leave - so did the Argentinians. The difference was we didn't send a task force. So clearly there is no comparison. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Peace Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:49 PM Do I hear Guantanamo? Going once . . . . |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:46 PM Comparisons between Diego Garcia/The Falklands/Grenada are ridiculous. So far as Diego Garcia is concerned, how do you make that out? A small community living on remote islands had their right to live there undisturbed challenged by the ambitions of outsiders. And in both cases they were British possessions. That's what they had in common. The threat they faced was different of course, and the enemy they were up against was different. And their fate was very different indeed. But that's what comparisons are about. The threat for the people in the Falklands was that they would have to live under Argentine rule, and that they might have to share the islands with incoming settlers from the mainland. The threat for the people of Diego Garcia would be that they would be torn from their homes and dumped in a distant part of the world. The enemy for the people of the Falkland Islands was the Argentine Government. The enemy for the people of Diego Garcia was the British Government, the very people to whom they should have been able to look for protection. The fate - a period of occupation on the one hand, and on the other hand forty years of exile in squalid conditions, with no end in sight. Can anyone really imagine a British Government which will tell the Americans to get out of Diego Garcia before they want to go? For that matter, can anyone envisage an American Government that would comply with that unlikely demand? |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: MuddleC Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:37 PM Kathryn Nutbeem, apparently a folk singer as well as accomplished actress, her father's guitar was salvavalaged from the wreck and returned. I wasn't trying to start a discussion on the rights or wrongs of it all, I was moved by the feeling in her singing... so much so I didn't realise there was simple accompaniment.... it was done well, thankyou BBC sound man! To stand there, in the middle of the square, and not crack-up under the emotion that she herself was party to... well... out flippin'standing. I have rememberances of the trip down, I was somewhere 'South of Acension' on my first wedding anniversary... the ship I was on had a huge crack down one side and during storms the water actually flowed across the cabin deck several inches deep! The helicopter lashings reminded me of the way King Kong swayed and pulled on the stage in New York... When politics fail, people die. Sometimes it is for honourable reasons, other times...well, as we say in the Andrew 'If you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have joined up!! It was our way of coping with the stupidity of man. But when you sign the form, you undertake to go..unlike some modern royalty. Thank you Kathryn Nutbeem for the different slant on memorial parades. (I thought HRH Andy's attempt at keeping in step was hilarious too!) |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Teribus Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:10 PM Some facts about Diego Garcia - British Indian Ocean Territory: In 1966, the crown bought the islands and plantations, which had been under private ownership and which had not been profitable with the introduction of new oils and lubricants. In 1971, the plantations were closed because of the agreement between the United Kingdom and the United States to make Diego Garcia available to the U.S. as a military base. The agreement between the UK and U.S. for the U.S. to use the island as a military base specifies that the agreement runs until 2036, but that either government can opt out of the agreement in 2016. In 2000, the High Court granted the islanders the right to return to the Archipelago and granted them UK citizenship. In 2002, the islanders and their descendants, now numbering 4,500, returned to court claiming compensation, after what they said were two years of delays by the British Foreign Office. However, on June 10, 2004, the British government made two Orders-in-Council banning the islanders from returning home, reversing the 2000 court decision. Some of the Ilois are making return plans to turn Diego Garcia into a sugarcane and fishing enterprise as soon as the defense agreement expires (possibly as early as 2016, but almost certainly in 2036 – unless the agreement is renewed). A few dozen other Ilois are still fighting to be housed in the UK. On May 11, 2006, the British High Court ruled that the 2004 Orders-in-Council were unlawful, and consequently that the Ilois were entitled to return to the Chagos Archipelago. This judgement was upheld by the Court of Appeal on May 23, 2007, It remains to be seen whether the British Government will make a further appeal, and when or how the judgment might be implemented in practice. Now some facts about the Falkland Islands - Self-Governing British Territory: The inhabitants of the islands are British citizens known as "Kelpers". Many of whom can trace their origins in the Islands back to early nineteenth century Scottish immigration. They totally reject the Argentine sovereignty claim. The islands were invaded by Argentina on 2nd April, 1982, their intent being to permanently annex the islands and dispossess the inhabitants against their wishes. It was a naked act of acquisition by aggression without thought or consideration for the inhabitants of the islands who owned the land they farmed and worked. British Forces were sent South to retake the islands and restore the rights and security of the islanders. This was achieved with the surrender of the Argentine Forces on 14th June 1982. Now some facts about Grenada - Independent Country: Became an independent island state on the 7th February, 1974. A power struggle developed between Bishop and a majority of the ruling People's Revolutionary Government (PRG), including the co-founder of the NJM, Bernard Coard. This led to Bishop's house arrest; he and many others were eventually executed at Fort George on October 19, 1983 during a hardline PRA coup which brought a new pro-Soviet/Cuban government under General Hudson Austin to power. At the time of the coup there were about 50 Cuban military advisors and 700 armed construction workers on the island. Six days later, the island was invaded by forces from the United States purportedly at the behest of Dame Eugenia Charles, of Dominica. Five other Caribbean nations participated with Dominica and the USA in the campaign, called Operation Urgent Fury. Although the Governor-General, Sir Paul Scoon later stated that he had requested the invasion, the governments of the United Kingdom and Trinidad and Tobago expressed anger at not having been consulted. At no time at all was there ever any intent of annexation or occupation. After the invasion, United States gave $48.4 million in economic assistance to Grenada in 1984, and left the island to its own devices. Comparisons between Diego Garcia/The Falklands/Grenada are ridiculous. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Folkiedave Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:15 AM Well I have consistently opposed invasions by anyone including the numerous invasions by the USA and its proxies. Did you demand a task force when the USA invaded Grenada just a year after the Falklands conflict? And if not why not? |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Jun 07 - 09:27 AM I wish I copuld believe that the islanders - those of them who have not died during their exile - will "have their islands restored to them". The most they can hope for, if the British Government does not find some new way of obstructing the judgement of the courts, is that they will be allowed to go to live on some of the outlying islands, well away from Diego Garcia itself. There seems to be no prospect whatsoever of them being allowed to go home. The point is, consistently before and after the Falklands war, British governments of both parties, have shown themselves as totally contemptuous of the rights of the Chagos islanders,and of their obligations towards them. Human rights and obligations didn't come into it. And the same was in fact true of the Falklands - it just happened that this time it suited the government of the day to go to war. So they made a great show of actually caring about the rights of these islanders. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: GUEST Date: 19 Jun 07 - 09:07 AM Her name was Kathryn Nutbeem, daughter of Captain Nutbeem, a medic, as you correctly say, killed on the Galahad. I was on the parade, and almost every one of us struggled to hold back the tears |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Teribus Date: 19 Jun 07 - 08:37 AM "..who collectively could care a toss for their own people let alone those they have invaded and dispossessed." Should of course read: "..who collectively couldn't care a toss for their own people let alone those they have invaded and dispossessed." |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Teribus Date: 19 Jun 07 - 08:19 AM Couldn't agree with you more in respect of the Chagos Islands Kevin, an absolute bloody disgrace, but I believe that they will get justice through the British Courts, and ultimately they will have their islands restored to them. In the case of the Falkland Islanders under the Junta, it would have been very doubtful if justice was ever going to enter that equation and title to the land would have gone forever, sole arbiters of the situation being a bunch of military adventurers, who collectively could care a toss for their own people let alone those they have invaded and dispossessed. The Government and leadership of the UK at the time had and have absolutely nothing whatsoever to apologise for. Our territory had been invaded and we sent our armed forces south to recover them - that comes with the job description when you join the armed forces, you do so in the firm knowledge that if things happen to go pear-shaped, you have to fight and put yourself in harms way - it's what they pay you for. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Jun 07 - 07:31 AM Of course the more numerous inhabitants of those other distant British owned islands, the Chagos Islands, didn't have anyone from Britain protect then from being deported from their homes and transported thousands of miles to be dumped. But then it was Britain doing the deporting, and the Americans who wanted the main island, Diego Garcia for a airbase. And they weren't white. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: GUEST Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:12 AM And as for Thatcher's daughter on that hideous TV programme recently, her behaviour was discraceful. She can't even speak properly!! |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: GUEST,Uncleboko Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:08 AM I think that you will find Argentina to be a totally different place today to that of the early 1980s. The people are a million miles from the aggressive, don't look at me sheep of this country. I have it on good authority that a good proportion of Argentines (not Argentinians please) were totally against any form of shooting war over Las Malvinas. Of course the omnipresent "rent a mob" - they are always there for the TV cameras, gave a hideously biased impression of Argentine feeling at the time, which was great for the mob in this country. Yes, the unnecessary slaughter on both sides was sad, and the hideous leaders on both sides have a great deal to answer for. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Teribus Date: 19 Jun 07 - 01:02 AM Well Folkiedave - It is so reassuring to know that the trendy-left are still so willing to conveniently ignore duty, responsibility and principle in order to appease and reward naked aggression. Always go for the easy option irrespective of how reprehensible. If memory serves me correctly it was the Argentinian Junta's Generals that ordered the invasion and occupation of the Falklands. Whereupon the population were hearded into village halls and sheep-sheds and placed under guard as their homes were ransacked and vandalised. The Islanders themselves, unconsulted about this at the time, wanted no part of Argentina, or their fascist rulers - as remains the case to this day. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Folkiedave Date: 18 Jun 07 - 07:08 PM Well Teribus - I am prepared to bet that if we had given each of the inhabitants of the Falkland Islands/Malvinas £1,000,000 for each inhabitant they would have taken it. That would have saved us millions of pounds compared to the financial cost of war. Then the Argentinians could have taken over with no loss of life on either side and the British taxpayer would have saved millions too. I have no doubt we could also have come to some agreement about squid and oil. Of course as I pointed out earlier Thatcher would not have allowed Falkland Islanders into the the UK since she did not regard them - for immigration purposes - as British. That was a result of the British Nationality Act of 1981. Of course once the war was over Parliament passed a new Act in 1983 giving them British nationality. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Jun 07 - 06:54 PM The one thing that always seems to be missing from these kind of commemorations is an apology for getting them into this situation. From leaders of both countries for commemorations in both countries. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Teribus Date: 18 Jun 07 - 05:35 PM "Around 200 men, many of them Welsh Guards, were killed or injured as the Argentine bombs ignited the huge amount of explosives the ship was carrying." 54 men were killed at Bluff Cove, the major part (48 lost onboard the Sir Galahad) as a result of Welsh Guards Officers refusing to obey the direct orders of the Royal Marines Liaison Officer, Major Ewen Southby-Taylor. Those commanding the Welsh Guards considered the five mile march "inappropriate" or too taxing. The whole episode should never, repeat never have happened. That had nothing to do with Thatcher, or any poitician, it had a damn sight more to do with the Army going off half-cocked and being totally unprepared and ill-equipped for the task. Interesting that the good Dr. Price does not mention the people who actually live on the Falkland Islands in his rather emotive little rant. From the tenor of his contribution I take it that those who lived there would have been quite happy living under the Agentinian Junta's benevolent rule? But I believe that the Falkland Islanders themselves would beg to differ. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Liz the Squeak Date: 18 Jun 07 - 05:05 PM "That is mostly, I think, to do with they way they've been treated - or rather NOT been treated - since they got home." That's always been the way. After the Peninsular war (1808-1814) there were thousands of old soldiers roaming the country, looking for work and unable to find any due to economical cirucmstances or disability. It's been the same situation after each and every military campaign the British Army has ever been involved in. These young men were ripped from their homes and trained to kill. When they were no longer able or no longer required, they were just dropped back home with no thought for their futures. So much for our 'home fit for heroes'. LTS |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: GUEST,Uncleboko Date: 18 Jun 07 - 04:42 PM http://www.4shared.com/file/18163932/32e44c07/Buenos_Aires_A__7_.html |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: GUEST,Uncleboko Date: 18 Jun 07 - 04:23 PM Well, we stood at the Malvinas Memorial in Plaza San Martin, Buenos Aires on April 2 2007 - Malvinas Day in Argentina, as we did in 2005 and 2002, and will continue to do so. Thankyou Dr Price for your wonderful post here. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Pistachio Date: 18 Jun 07 - 03:35 PM It seems that it's only if there's a 'personality' attending, be they Royal or Political, that such services of remembrance get the coverage. I think that the survivors and their families should have the front row seats and the 'hoi polloi' should stand waiting in line letting those 'left behind' take the salute. By all means, parade for the Queen but don't forget those left to carry on alone without their personal heroes. I do believe that military bands need to be at such events. There's an immense sense of Pride in Military personnel given a rousing musical accompaniment. I can't listen to the likes of 'Nimrod' without a certain reverent reflective thought. Lest we forget ALL the lives lost in conflict. re-read Guest PMB 0950AM What can be normal about life after such loss? H. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: GUEST,PMB Date: 18 Jun 07 - 09:50 AM Then the two minutes' silence was ended, We heard the wind and the rain. On Horseguards' Parade a gun sounded And normal life started again. (Leon Rosselson) |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Steve Shaw Date: 18 Jun 07 - 07:19 AM Sorry, Capt Ginger. Anniversary stuff was insensitive, I admit. I can never bring myself to watch these things, much as I admire the bravery of the military, and I'm no pacifist. But I hate to see commemorations that include glorification of our oft-misguided military endeavours. Wear the medals, commemorate the dead but lose the uniforms and marching bands and the sickening sight of politicians and royalty who have nothing to do with the fighting save to use the blood of our young people to perpetuate their own positions. I would have tuned in to watch Margaret Thatcher apologise for ordering the slaughter of over three hundred young men on the General Belgrano, but I left the telly off on the assumption that that wasn't going to happen. That's what I meant. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Mick Tems Date: 18 Jun 07 - 07:05 AM Who profited from the horrible Falklands war? It was Thatcher all the way. Thatcher, approving ally of the fascist General Pinochet of Chile, whose troops raped and murdered the Chilean populace and then imprisoned the campaigning poet Victor Jara in Santiago football stadium, cutting off his songwriting hands before shooting him... Thatcher, who closed down the mines, threw whole families on the dole and forced men to sign up… Thatcher, whose uncaring attitude sent strong signals to the Argentine Junta and precipitated the war... Thatcher, who knew that a good war would boost her status... Thatcher, whose totally inappropriate rallying war-cry of "Rejoice!" sent shock-waves to the British people, still reeling in disbelief at the sinking of the elderly General Belgrano, fleeing across the South Atlantic, and the drowning of 600 sailors… However, I cannot forgive Thatcher and the Junta's forcing us to go to war against our own people. In the 19th century, many Christian Welsh speakers set sail in the Mimosa to start a new life in Patagonia. Their numbers grew, and Rawson, Gaiman and Trelew echoed to the sound of Welsh voices. The Junta had a habit of forcing Patagonian conscripts into the Argentinian Army, and it was these young conscripts who faced the might of the British Services and subsequently got slaughtered. When the Argentinian Army surrendered, there's a very true story this Welsh-speaking doctor in the Armed Services who went into a Port Stanley church. He sees a young Argentinian conscript, weeping and praying fervently - in Welsh. The doctor takes pity on him and comforts him, in Welsh, their language proving the common bond. At the National Eisteddfod, months after Argentina's surrender, there was a ceremony of Welcoming the Exiles. A group of Patagonians got up off their seats – and the whole packed pavilion rose up to embrace and to greet them. It was a very moving experience. I wept when the Argentinian air force bombed the Sir Galahad and 50 Welsh soldiers died. The Tory Government had closed all the mines, so signing up was the only option. The face of Simon Weston, horribly disfigured by searing fire, will haunt me always – although Simon's courage and fortitude has become a shining beacon. But it's those scheming politicians, in Downing Street or in South America or across the whole world, who are the real enemy. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Schantieman Date: 18 Jun 07 - 06:32 AM That is mostly, I think, to do with they way they've been treated - or rather NOT been treated - since they got home. It doesn't detract from the achievement and sacrifice of those who were there - and are still there. Steve |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Gedpipes Date: 18 Jun 07 - 05:38 AM Good post Captain Ginger. Announced on the news this morning that more British servicemen veterans of this conflict have have sadly taken their own lives since it ended than in the actual conflict itself. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: The PA Date: 18 Jun 07 - 04:56 AM I have a vivid recollection of news report with film of a young lady standing on the docks absolutely braking her heart crying as the crowds waved goodby to a ship. She was supposed to be getting married sometime that week but her young man was off to the South Atlantic. I will never ever forget her face and I often wonder what happened. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Megan L Date: 18 Jun 07 - 04:07 AM 1983 on honeymoon in Wales we stopped at a small country church after we had looked around inside we noticed a long row of stark new graves. as we walked along them tears flowed 18, 19, 20, 21 years old all had been on the Sir Galahad. Young lives extinguished on both sides mothers and sweethearts once again left weeping for the one who would never return. And many a family left to shed bitter tears over those who made it back never the same as the young man who walked out your door. So many damaged and broken lives so many tears. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: The PA Date: 18 Jun 07 - 03:34 AM More service personnel involved in the conflict/war have commited suicide since, than were actually killed in action ????? |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Captain Ginger Date: 18 Jun 07 - 03:17 AM All this anniversary stuff has me clenching my oversize buttocks like never before That's a shame. The 'anniversary stuff' wasn't for Thatcher, or Blair, or any part of 'The Establishment'. It has primarily been for those who actually did the dirty work and for their friends and families. I lost good friends there, and have others whose lives have been hugely changed as a result. 25 years on, the scars are still there, and the memories are still as vivid. It's interesting that in the folk world people sing the words - lines like "to that faithful heart you are always 19" - but they don't seem to take on board the meaning. To me my best friend will always be 22; quietly spoken, wry and sensible, no fan of Thatcher but determined to do a job he was proud of to the best of his ability. Weighed against a life largely unlived and the children he never had, the 'anniversary stuff' seems a small price to pay. Some are still paying a very high price. So next time you're thinking about buying a pint or a pie, why not send the money here instead. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: GUEST,meself Date: 17 Jun 07 - 09:27 PM "The Argentines can still hope that the Malvinas will be restored to them" - And the Indians can still hope Canada will be restored to them. Right after the French imperialists are driven out of St. Pierre et Miquelon. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Jun 07 - 08:00 PM There wouldn't have been a war if the British Governement hadn't sent out signals to the Argentine generals that encouraged them to believe that Britain would really rather like to be rid of the Falklands. Perhaps that was unintentional. It worked out pretty well for Thatcher. Not so well for the victims of the war on both sides. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Steve Shaw Date: 17 Jun 07 - 07:37 PM I am with you, Dave. All this anniversary stuff has me clenching my oversize buttocks like never before. Without the war Thatcher may well have not gone on, so damagingly, for anything like as long as she did, and the war was her way of perpetuating herself. There wasn't exactly much else going for her at the time. Then she demolished the miners and the mines and trade unionism. That's the legacy of the Falklands war. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 17 Jun 07 - 07:29 PM The Argentines can still hope that the Malvinas will be restored to them; the British have lost most of the ill-gotten lands they took in the 18-19th c. Perhaps 50 years from now Argentina, Brazil and Venezuela will be on an ascendant curve, smaller than that of India and China, but still significant enough to establish dominance in the south Atlantic over outsiders and regain the last vestiges of European empires in the South American realm. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Peace Date: 17 Jun 07 - 06:59 PM That is always the case, Dave. The soldiers I've known don't want to go to war. I have never understood the damned politicians (who speak on our behalf, like it or not) who so blithely send boys off to engage in war. |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Folkiedave Date: 17 Jun 07 - 06:56 PM The War that saved Thatcher's Face? Shortly before that war started the government led by Lady Thatcher had decided that Falkland Islanders were not British citizens for immigration purposes. I do not deny the bravery of the soldiers there, in Iran or Afghanistan or indeed anywhere in the world they are fighting. But the stupidity and hypocrisy of the politicians is another matter entirely. Dave |
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Subject: Lyr Add: SOMEWHERE ALONG THE ROAD (Rick Kemp) From: Peace Date: 17 Jun 07 - 06:52 PM Somewhere Along The Road
Somewhere along the road
Somehow a guiding light |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: skipy Date: 17 Jun 07 - 06:37 PM No, These brave men where the music of our Empire just 25 years ago, they must never be below the line in "bullshit". Skipy |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Folkiedave Date: 17 Jun 07 - 06:31 PM I would have thought this was a thread for below the line (non music) |
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Subject: RE: Falklands 25yearson /HorseGuards Parade From: Peace Date: 17 Jun 07 - 06:19 PM "As preparations to take Stanley went ahead British forces experienced their most severe shock of the campaign. On 8 June five Argentine planes hit two British supply ships, Sir Galahad and Sir Tristram. They were destroyed as they moved up men and equipment to a British-held position in Fitzroy, near Stanley. The assault took place before Sir Galahad had been able to land the men and ammunition it carried. Around 200 men, many of them Welsh Guards, were killed or injured as the Argentine bombs ignited the huge amount of explosives the ship was carrying." RIP |
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