BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it

Subject: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 07:59 PM

There are several news stories about this. Here's a LINK from which I copied the following:

The series plops 40 children, ages 8 to 15, in a "ghost town" south of Santa Fe for what is billed as a controlled social experiment. The kids are expected to fend for themselves for 40 days without adult supervision. Kid Nation is scheduled to premiere Sept. 19.

Just when I didn't think we could sink any lower!

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: bobad
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 08:54 PM

"The kids are expected to fend for themselves for 40 days without adult supervision."

Except for the film crew which probably number around 40 - bogus.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 09:05 PM

I do NOT approve. Lord of the Flies.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 09:06 PM

As usual with these E releases, the story is bias and exaggerated.
One parent complained about a routine cooking incident.

The Santa Fe New Mexican offers a more balanced story: http://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/67214.html
Kid Nation

On site were paramedics, a pediatrician, an animal safety expert, a child psychologist and others.
Santa Fe County Sheriff Greg Solano's office investigated Miles complaint and found "no prosecutable evidence of neglect or abuse." The kid who mistakenly put bleach in a soda drink recognized his mistake when he tasted it; no damage done and no stink raised.

Most of the kids enjoyed it, and earned a nice piece of change to boot.
Personally, except for the filming, it sounds like many of the summer camps all over the country; probably under much better supervision.

If one clicks on the link at the end of the story, some 33 comments from New Mexican readers are found.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 09:57 PM

I'll give it a read, Q. Right now, I still don't like the sounds of it, though I suppose there has to be someone adult in charge, as noted above. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 10:03 PM

"Reality" television bears the same relationship to Reality as philosophy does.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Alice
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 10:09 PM

Lord of the Flies was the first thing I thought of, as well as
..What kind of greedy parent would sign off for their kid
to be in something like that?
Everything I've seen about it worries me for those kids' welfare.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 04:00 AM

Considering what UK "reality" TV has done for racial abuse and bullying, with the connivance of the producers because it made for higher ratings, this is really quite scary.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 07:54 AM

I've seen what a 'pack' of boys---Boy Scouts---can do when left 'unsupervised' for a few minutes! NOT a pretty sight!

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Bee
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 09:12 AM

I doubt they are ever completely unsupervised. On the face of it, sounds no worse than summer camps to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 10:29 AM

Did anyone see the contract the parents had to sign to get the kids into this travesty?

It releases the promoters from ANY liability for injury, trouble, emotional problems or even death resulting from the kids making all this money running wild for the cameras.

(I'll see if I can find the references...I saw it on a program the other day)

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 10:45 AM

The second link article included the following:

Her daughter also had a rash that had caused scarring, and sunburn on her face and hands, Miles wrote. (Miles being the complaining parent.)

Okay, neither of the linked articles included any documented claim that the rash was caused by some negligently caused condition. Given only what was quoted, the kid might have had the same rash in any summer camp, or indeed, staying home for the summer.

Oh, but the kid got Sunburn!!! Oh, poor baby! Which of us never got sunburn in the summer, whether at summer camp, at home, visiting grandpa on the farm, or wherever?

As to the Lord of the Flies reference: First, Lord of the Flies is fiction, fer chrissake! And even then, the children in that story were completely without either supervision or protection. In this case there was a plethora of adult presence, part of them to make the film and part of them for safety's sake (pediatrician, animal safety expert, etc.). The kids couldn't avoid knowing that, and that knowledge, just of itself, will have moderated any wild impulse toward a sadistic dictatorial scenario like that in that fictional situation. And unlike in the novel, the kids knew this was an artificial, time-limited situation.

Yet more: The possibility of winning the $20,000 bonus would have to make for a moderating and uplifting motivation.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 11:06 AM

Well..we seem to be divided on this one. It just seems to me that IF these kids are supervised and safe and guarded, then the entire premise of the the thing as a 'reality' show is compromised. If they are NOT monitored and semi-scripted, then their well-being may be at risk.

In either case, I can't imagine I would find the situation 'entertaining'.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 11:19 AM

Look: none, not one, zip, zero, nada, rien, of the "reality" shows are "unsupervised."

There are television crews, for one thing. And THEY live in decent surroundings, you can bet on it. You can also bet that if one of the participants was injured there would be a doctor, a helicopter, and a hospital involved lickety-split.

And where do the people "voted off the island" go? Are they killed and eaten?

The entire premise behind these shows is to show people in a non-threatening situation eating bugs and trying to start a fire because of greed. Hell, just get the people together and say, "Look, right over that hill the TV crew is eating steaks and drinking beer. Let's go join them."

You want a REALITY show? How about a single mother with three kids who goes to work every day for damned little pay? Or a senior citizen faced with overwhelming medical debt? Or a new college grad trying to make ends meet while paying off the student loans?

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 11:26 AM

Rapaire...there may be 'one' exception. Have you seen "Survivorman"?...about the guy who is dropped off in some wilderness for a week and tries to make it back to civilazation?

They make the point that he carries the cameras and does all his own filming...which often becomes part of the script. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't have some real 'emergency beacon' along, but he seems to do what they say he does.

(This is unlike "Bear Gryles"..or whatever his name is...who OBVIOUSLY has a camera crew following him)

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 11:34 AM

This is wholly in the great U.S. tradition of "Anything For A Buck".

What's the problem?

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: SINSULL
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 11:35 AM

The parent signed an agreement that if her daughter was KILLED, she could not sue but she is complaining about sunburn? Sorry - but Children's Protective Services should investigate all the parents. Who, in their right mind, would put an eight year old in this setting for $5000? For that matter, who puts a teenager in a situation where he/she has no privacy? And how does that $5000 equal "volunteers"?

When I sent my son to summer camp, I investigated the camp and the counselors. Who ensured that there were no "predators" among the adults present?

So I will watch the first episode and complain loudly to the sponsors...for all the good it will do. No one ever answers my letters or emails.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: John Hardly
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 11:35 AM

I read somewhere once about a guy who went into a bar that was full of angry, half-drunk people who were raised on rock'n'roll...

...and he was armed with only an acoustic guitar.

As you can imagine, "reality" doesn't adequately describe the terrible outcome.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 12:10 PM

Some other observations:

First, this was in a "ghost town", says the article. Presumably there were buildings, in whatever kind of shape they might be. There was water, which the kids did have to tote. There would have been food; otherwise, the articles without a question of a doubt would have pointed out a possibility of starvation.   So the kids had shelter, water, and food for their forty days.

As pointed out earlier, there were a lot of adults who were obviously well aware of what was going on, the kids' physical condition, etc. When there were mishaps, medical care was provided.

All the kids (and their parents!) were aware of these things, and consented. None of these kids were dragged there by kidnappers.

From what was said in the articles (and more importantly, what was not said!) in the end no one was oppressed by a sadistic reign of terror among the kids, a la Lord of the Flies.

The two mishaps cited--grease spatter burns while cooking and a kid mistakenly mixing a chemical into a drink--could have happened at home or camp. In the event, neither seems to have resulted in any permanent harm, probably due to the medical help that was right at hand.

The mama who complained is trying to place on others the guilt she retroactively feels for her having agreed to place her child in a situation she now decides was risky.   

While the words "reality TV" are used, this is far unlike such shows as Survivor, which are set up to induce actual conflict or at least stress and strain among participants. As I read the articles, it seems, since the idea was that the kids were to set up a government (which the kids knew beforehand) and regulate themselves, the concept from the beginning was cooperation. And then kids (and parents) knowing this, could be expected to result in a population of kids skewed toward the brighter and more responsible end of the spectrum.

I honestly don't see where there's any room to complain.


Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 12:40 PM

"since the idea was that the kids were to set up a government (which the kids knew beforehand) and regulate themselves, the concept from the beginning was cooperation. And then kids (and parents) knowing this, could be expected to result in a population of kids skewed toward the brighter and more responsible end of the spectrum."


Oh, look, there goes a Gloucester Old Spot at 50,000 feet and accelerating.

Does that maximise viewing figures?

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 12:53 PM

Wha????

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 01:23 PM

Cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck the old hens mutter.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 03:29 PM

"Reality" programmes are a pain, basically because they are so phoney and manipulative, both of the people involved and of the people watching. And this sounds like a prime example.

The actual situation of a bunch of children managing for themselves is of course an intriguing one. There've been a good number of stories about it, and I doubt if any child has ever failed use it in play or imagination.

The version people always bring up is of course Golding's Lord of the Flies, but there've been others worth reading. There was Ballantine's Coral Island on which Golding drew so heavily, for example, giving it such a pessimistic spin.

One that is s a bit more cheerful is book called Timpetill, by Manfred Michael, originally published in Switzerland 1937, and translated into English in 1951. (Typically, of course, like so many good books, especially good books for children, it is out of print.)

Timpetill is actually rather closer to the scenario of this programme - the parents in a small town get fed up with their kid's being so whingy and difficult, so they decide to leave them on their own for a day. Being efficient and Swiss they make sure to turn off all the gad, water and electricity. Unfortunately they walk a cross a national frontier and get interned, so they are away for a lot longer than they have intended.

As with Lord of the Flies there is trouble with a bunch of nasty kids, who model themselves on the behaviour of grownups across the border from Switzerland (this is 1937...), but unlike Lord of the Flies, the good guys win - and when the parents finally make it back things are running pretty well (well, it is Switzerland).

And they are told "Dear parents of Timpetill! We are extremely pleased to see you here again! But do not think it was foolish of you to run away, for it gave us the chance to prove that we don't always play stupid jokes, and we can work if we have to. We have had good meals, we fixed up water and light, we have cleaned teh streets, and we have tidied up the houses. But we are quite ready for you to do it again."

Now reading a book like that makes a lot more sense than watching a crap TV programme.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 03:47 PM

Oh, but the kid got Sunburn!!! Oh, poor baby! Which of us never got sunburn in the summer, whether at summer camp, at home, visiting grandpa on the farm, or wherever?

With fair skin, it was never an "oh, no big deal" for me when I got sunburned. It caused terrible pain, and on a few occasions, meant a trip to the emergency room. It is much worse these days for anyone to get burned because of the lack of a sufficient ozone layer. Plus, there is always a concern of cancer later in life caused by a childhood burn.

I agree with Bill and Sins.

The first thought that came to my mind was an older kid, and fifteen is plenty old enough, deciding to do the "hokey-pokey" with a younger kid. And, I don't mean the dance. What kind of safety measures were there to make sure a little kid didn't get raped or coerced into something they were uncomfortable about? If either of my daughters did this with my grandsons, I'd sue for custody.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 07:20 PM

I've watched that "survivorman" show a couple times. I found him violating several of the tenets of survival -- for instance, Rule One is to stay put, and if you can't make it obvious which way you went.

No, sorry, I'm wrong. Rule One is "STOP AND THINK!"

I read, some years back, of an old desert character down in Arizona who somehow managed to get himself good and lost in the desert. He had some food and some water, but he decided to make a big smoke to let people know where he was. Not a bad idea, only he decided to burn his pickup truck to do it. To this end he shot a hole in the gas tank with a .357 magnum revolver, knowing that on TV and in the movies doing this makes the car burn.

In reality, shooting a hole in the gas tank makes all the gas leak out. And that's what happened. Now he was lost and had a vehicle that he couldn't use to drive away. More, he was willing to burn his shelter!

Sure, a smoke would have brought help and was a good idea. But how about using a deflated spare tire, set a safe distance away?

STOP AND THINK! isn't a bad rule in non-emergency situations either. Government, for example. Television viewing.

We seem all to ready, these days, to engage in Coleridge's "willing suspension of disbelief."

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 07:39 PM

One of things I've always remembered is a chip bag turned inside out will work for a reflector, as the lining is almost always a shiny silver; carry a "space blanket" with you as it is warm and shiny; stay put as you said, Rapaire; and conserve whatever you do have. Best of all would be to have a GPS so that you can be found or cellphone or whatever it is that can help them find you.

Oh, and another one I read about, unscrewing the headlight rims on a vehicle, pull the headlights out, with wires still attached, turn them on and wave them pointing up in the sky for search planes to see. Also, burning a spare tire will set up an awful smoke. If you go off the road into deep water, keep your windows rolled up until the car settles, to conserve the oxygen, then take a deep breath, roll down the window and get out as fast as you can , bobbing to the surface, at least that's the theory I read years and years ago. And, that was before power windows, so YMMV.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 07:47 PM

Remember the "old" SF stories that featured reality shows where somebody was gonna die for TV entertainment? What-- you thought they wouldn't come true?!?!?

Wall-mounted flat-screens, huge? Touch-buttons and touchscreens to control stuff?

Remember?


Head on down to WalMart-- there's our future, in microcosm.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: bobad
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 07:53 PM

The future ain't what it used to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: John Hardly
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 07:56 PM

I saw a survival show where a kid holed up in a fast-food restaurant with no food. He was able to stay there until people finally came to rescue him.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 07:59 PM

What did he eat if there wasn't any food?

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 08:03 PM

I don't necessarily see a problem with this, although it sounds like a kind of dumb idea to base a TV show on....

It would work great with kids from Cuba or Trinidad, because they are already quite used to taking on adult responsibility from what I've seen. I'm not quite sure how well it would work with North American kids....but it might, I suppose.

Seems to me that if you get any bunch of kids together in the country for 40 days, someone always gets sunburned or eats something they shouldn't or falls in the river or something.... ;-) At least that's how I remember it from when I was that age. Somehow we all managed to survive.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 08:20 PM

Now if they were to do a real documentary about some kids who are actually living in this situation - which in truth happens often enough in countries going through rough times - that actually might be fascinating and valuable.

But a real documentary like that would be more demanding, likely be more expensive to get together, and probably wouldn't have the same gawp appeal, or get the same hyped up attention in the "news" media.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 08:39 PM

Excellent point, McGrath. Yeah, they ought to do a documentary about poor kids in Mexico and how they cope with daily survival.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 08:42 PM

"I've seen what a 'pack' of boys---Boy Scouts---can do when left 'unsupervised' for a few minutes!"

What's the difference between The Boy Scouts and The Marines?

Adult Supervision!

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 09:08 PM

Just one more show I won't be watching.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 26 Aug 07 - 11:22 PM

Those kids were technically working 24 hours a day for 40 days, for which they were paid $5,000 each. That amounts to an hourly wage of $5.20 with no extra pay for overtime. That's .65 less than minimum wage.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 10:05 AM

Whether they were "technically working" is a matter of interpretation.
I don't think I'd buy that, but accepting that judgment for the purpose of discussion, if you are going to take the average wage approach, you need to figure in the non-wage compensation: Shelter, food, medical care, and perhaps other non-wage benefits.

Now, taking your figure of $5.20 for the moment, is it taxable as income? If not, then one would have to figure what amount would be equivalent if it were taxable.

There's also the value of the possibility of winning the $20,000.

Considering all the above, it would definitely be above the minimum wage.

You can also consider this as being a species of vacation, which complicates such an analysis.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: JennyO
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 10:16 AM

reality shows where somebody was gonna die for TV entertainment?

The movie "Network" comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 11:07 AM

While I see no great problem in the production of this series, I don't think I'd bother to watch the show. If, indeed, I watched TV, which I don't.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 11:19 AM

One thing about "space blankets": They don't breathe. They will trap your body moisture inside, so if you use one and then have to come you will be wet and will chill much more rapidly. Keeping that in mind, using them as a reflector for a fire and as a wind/rain break IS a good idea.

As for waving headlights about -- most cars today aren't built to permit it. But you CAN us jumper cables from the battery to get a spark to start a fire.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 11:22 AM

What Uncle DaveO said. ;-) The best way to avoid becoming socially programmed and have your brain slowly turned into stale chowder is to avoid the Idiot Box.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Aug 07 - 10:19 PM

"trap your body moisture inside, so if you use one and then have to come you will be wet"

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..........

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 09:07 AM

Out. Come out.

Three little letters....

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 09:58 AM

The basic premise of the show is that the kids have been abandoned by their parents. I consider that a bad thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Becca72
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 11:18 AM

That is not the basic premise of the show, leeneia. The basic premise of the show is to see if kids can build a society. I won't watch it because the idea doesn't appeal to me, but let's not forget how unreal "reality" tv is. And let's also not forget as mentioned before that their parents signed off on all this at the very beginning.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 11:28 AM

Let me count the lawsuits

despite signed waivers.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 01:04 PM

"Lawsuits", Donuel?

As I recall, there's only one complaint, which is from the "grease-spatter/rash/sunburn" mom. There may (and I forget, at this moment) have been mention of some other disgruntled parents, but I don't recall anything approaching an allegation of actionable harm.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 01:36 PM

The project is long over; only some hens still clucking over it.

"Reality" shows are a fraud (unreal as Becca puts it), produced for the average TV audience, and everyone goes home happily, with money in their pockets (with the exception of one 'mom' who wants more money?- she should have engaged a better agent).

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 02:11 PM

These parents signed a 22 page contract, including allowing the program to make all medical decisions, including surgery, for their kids! The parents DID NOT KNOW where the program was to be filmed until the last moment, when they were all zipped off to New Mexico, because it was one of the few states left with antiquated, fuzzy child labor laws still on the books.

Better and clever folks than me are digging into this pretty deeply....I am glad that nothing sinister 'seems' to have happened so far....but I will be watching.

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 04:19 PM

CBS has prepared a preview clip, which is available on the Los Angeles Times website.

The American Federation of Television and Radio Artists is looking into the 'shoot' along with the New Mexico Attorney General. Nothing actionable has been found so far. A legal question is whether the kids were amateurs or became professionals covered by AFTRA. New Mexico recently changed its laws to comply with those of California.

A Second series is being planned and interviews being held; its production will depend upon the reception the first series receives from CBS viewers. The contract is similar to that signed by participants in the "Survivor" series. Canada is being mentioned as a possible location.

The 'ghost town' is bogus; it never existed except for a couple of stone ruins built by a speculator long ago. Buildings are sets for previous films, solidly constructed and not just fronts (it is the Bonanza Creek Movie Ranch); a few new buildings were constructed for the shoot. The place is wired for electricity and has running water. The film clip shows the low-grade ranch land of the area, which I know from the time I lived near there. Some 200 longhorns roam the movie play-ranch. There are a few small abandoned mines in the hills nearby, which the Bureau of Land Management have been filling or otherwise making safe. A portion of the area is being taken over for a preserve and park. Part of the area is occupied by rather expensive little properties that are suburban to Santa Fe. The location is eight miles from Santa Fe, thus close to four-star accommodation and meals. It is on the list of Santa Fe tourist attractions.

The fauna and flora are distinctive, and deserve protection, which they are receiving in part. Two weeks ago, a cougar came into downtown Santa Fe, and was removed to a wilderness area. Not far away are abandoned (the famed Cerrillos Turquoise) turquoise mines, operated since pre-Spanish days; much of the turquoise used by the Aztecs in Mexico came from these mines. The small silver-copper-lead-zinc deposits in the Cerrillos Hills never amounted to much, no town ever developed.

The article and CBS clip:
Kid Nation

Hmmm- some of those kids show strong evidence of prior training for acting roles.

(If that website link is in error, google for latimes and search for the article).

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 04:33 PM

There's clearly some false promotion to the public in that video clip, but that doesn't go to the point about "child abuse".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 06:25 PM

But as far as viewer abuse is concerned...

Subject: RE: BS: Kid Nation - don't like the sounds of it
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 06:41 PM

Well, I did like the sounds of it, but I was disappointed.

I watched part of the first episode, but I turned it off in disgust about halfway through—about the time the one adult leader reappeared and took charge, telling the kids to organize into four groups, which they obediently did, even wearing colored bandanas to indicate which group they belonged to. Then he started to assign tasks to the kids, along with a schedule of rewards.

Phooey! It's just another stupid "reality" show, with precious little reality.

I was hoping for something like PBS' "Frontier House" with the work proportionately easier so that kids could cope with it. It looked like it was starting out that way: The buildings were already built so the kids didn't have to build them; they were given plenty of canned goods, and so on. They just had to get organized enough to cook and clean up after themselves. It should have been a manageable task, just challenging enough to make it interesting to see how they organized themselves. Would they operate as one big commune? Would they split into groups? Would some kids become outcasts? Would they own all the food in common, or divvy it up? How would they make decisions? Would they end up with a socialist or capitalist system, or something entirely different? Dictatorship, democracy, or anarchy?

But it looked like they weren't going to be allowed to figure that out for themselves. More's the pity.