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BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series

Related threads:
Obit: Novelist Larry McMurtry (1936-2021) (2)
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Any James McMurtry fans out there??? (21)
Lyr Req: Cheney's Toy (James McMurtry) (8)
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Lyr Add: Can't Make It Here Anymore (J McMurtry) (5)


GUEST,John LaPrelle 07 Sep 08 - 01:56 AM
Little Hawk 06 Sep 08 - 12:34 AM
Riginslinger 05 Sep 08 - 06:22 PM
Leadfingers 05 Sep 08 - 12:24 PM
Little Hawk 04 Sep 08 - 09:53 PM
Riginslinger 04 Sep 08 - 07:02 PM
Little Hawk 04 Sep 08 - 06:54 PM
Riginslinger 04 Sep 08 - 06:28 PM
Little Hawk 04 Sep 08 - 04:53 PM
Peter T. 04 Sep 08 - 04:47 PM
Den 04 Sep 08 - 02:28 PM
Little Hawk 04 Sep 08 - 01:58 PM
Riginslinger 04 Sep 08 - 10:24 AM
Den 04 Sep 08 - 08:44 AM
Little Hawk 04 Sep 08 - 12:42 AM
Riginslinger 04 Sep 08 - 12:30 AM
Little Hawk 04 Sep 08 - 12:24 AM
Riginslinger 03 Sep 08 - 10:19 PM
Peter T. 03 Sep 08 - 06:55 PM
olddude 03 Sep 08 - 06:24 PM
Little Hawk 03 Sep 08 - 06:17 PM
olddude 03 Sep 08 - 04:04 PM
Den 03 Sep 08 - 02:24 PM
Little Hawk 03 Sep 08 - 01:17 PM
Peter T. 03 Sep 08 - 12:39 PM
Den 03 Sep 08 - 12:34 PM
Den 03 Sep 08 - 09:32 AM
Little Hawk 02 Sep 08 - 07:40 PM
kendall 02 Sep 08 - 07:31 PM
Wesley S 02 Sep 08 - 09:31 AM
Uncle Phil 07 Feb 08 - 01:26 AM
Wesley S 29 Jan 08 - 04:57 PM
Little Hawk 23 Jan 08 - 11:29 AM
Uncle Phil 23 Jan 08 - 01:24 AM
Little Hawk 22 Jan 08 - 06:22 PM
Wesley S 22 Jan 08 - 04:31 PM
Little Hawk 22 Jan 08 - 04:28 PM
Wesley S 22 Jan 08 - 04:22 PM
Little Hawk 22 Jan 08 - 04:13 PM
Wesley S 22 Jan 08 - 04:06 PM
Little Hawk 22 Jan 08 - 03:47 PM
Wesley S 22 Jan 08 - 03:30 PM
Little Hawk 22 Jan 08 - 03:28 PM
Wesley S 22 Jan 08 - 01:21 PM
Little Hawk 22 Jan 08 - 01:13 PM
Wesley S 22 Jan 08 - 01:03 PM
Little Hawk 22 Jan 08 - 12:57 PM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 22 Jan 08 - 12:48 PM
Wesley S 22 Jan 08 - 11:41 AM
Uncle Phil 21 Jan 08 - 11:48 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: GUEST,John LaPrelle
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 01:56 AM

It's hard for me to stay away from this thread. Most of my buddies are academic types and, like Mudcatters, find this stuff too bloody, too anti-multi-cultural, and too testosterone-filled for their taste.

One comment on "Rio Bravo." It is at the top of my favorite Movie list. That is based on my experience of seeing it when I was 12 years old, however. I still like it, but it is the complete opposite from "Lonesome Dove." "Rio Bravo" is about using a huge budget and way too many big screen giants (and giant egos) and still producing a moving, cohesive work. Dean Martin? Ricky Nelson? ... the list goes on and on and all these people had to play second fiddle to John Wayne.

About Elmore Leonard... I like "The Law at Randado" and "Valdez is Coming" the best of his westerns.

Just to try to add a little. If you guys like Leonard's westerns you might continue the "Valdez" theme with "The Valdez Horses" by Lee Floren. I have had a lot of luck recommending that to luke-warm western readers, but it might not be too late for you guys. The rest of Floren's work doesn't seem as good to me.

If you are so transgressive that you would recommend a western to an adolescent, you might try L'Amour's "Down the Long Hills" for boys. It is filled with good old values of honor and responsibility and kids find it really exciting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:34 AM

He wrote a number of westerns in the early part of his career. Then he shifted into other types of books...mostly crime thrillers set in modern times. They're all very well written.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:22 PM

Yeah, I do like Elmore Leonard, but I think I've only read on western of his. The other books were different kinds of things.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Leadfingers
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:24 PM

100


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:53 PM

Ah. Then you should love Elmore Leonard. Very good dialogue in his books, and sometimes tinged with a good deal of wry humor here and there.

I highly recommend "Forty Lashes Less One" for that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 07:02 PM

Mostly, I think, it has to be something to do with language. I'm not a very fast reader, but when I finish a book, I know it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 06:54 PM

"have to be entertained on each individual page"

Okay, but what entertains you? Do you find character development entertaining, for instance? Or does it have to be action?


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 06:28 PM

"Riginslinger, maybe you're not reading the more descriptive authors. Some guys can really put you in the place and time where you can almost smell the dust and cowpies."


                  Maybe, but after thinking about it, I'm not sure. Some books really grab the reader, but I don't think I've ever had a western do that. I'm probably not the most sophisticated reader, and have to be entertained on each individual page. I get bored turning pages just to see how things turn out.
                  That's not a critizism of western as much as thrillers, like Tom Clancy or Vince Flynn.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:53 PM

Rio Bravo was, in my opinion, a darned good comic book....and a not very good movie. I had the comic when I was a kid. Finally saw the movie about 20 years later, and was quite disappointed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Peter T.
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:47 PM

While we are on this subject, it is a mystery to me why so many people love the film "Rio Bravo" -- I mean it is fun, but you would think it was Shakespeare the way people go on about it.

Meanwhile, the worst worst Western novel ever is James Fenimore Cooper's the Prairie. Everything about it the critical theoreticians and historians say about it is wrong: it is insanely boring, and ridiculous.



yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Den
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:28 PM

Riginslinger, maybe you're not reading the more descriptive authors. Some guys can really put you in the place and time where you can almost smell the dust and cowpies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:58 PM

Sooooo...are you, like, one of them visual types? Know'm sayin'?   ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:24 AM

It's funny about Westerns. I like watching the movies, but could never get motivated by the books. It always seemed to me like there was something missing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Den
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 08:44 AM

I really like Cormac McCarthy's the border trilogy. Mind you the books take place at the latter part of the 19th century early 2oth but they are great stories if a bit tragic. His dialogue is wonderful and boy does he know horses.

LH I'm going to give Leonard a shot (pardon the pun). I do however think that McMurtry will take some beating. Along with the tragedy there was some great humour.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:42 AM

L'Amour is very good, no doubt, and he's also very prolific. I find Leonard's stories much realer, though. L'Amour is a little too predictable in how he casts heroes and villains, and in how he sets up the dramatic action in a story. I always get the feeling with L'Amour that I'm reading an entertaining story which I can't forget IS just a story while I'm reading it. It seems mythological in a sense. But I get the feeling with Leonard that I'm actually there. He totally convinces me.

I would give L'Amour a very solid three out of four stars, in other words on his westerns, but I'd give Leonard the whole four stars.

Of L'Amour's books, though, I think that "Jubal Sackett" is absolutely outstanding. It's a great adventure story. So that one I give four stars.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:30 AM

"3:10 to Yuma," recently made into a movie. I think for the second time. But isn't Louis L'Amour recognized as the master of this genre?


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 12:24 AM

Elmore Leonard has written a series of superb westerns. Among them:

Hombre
The Law at Randado
Cuba Libre (a sort of Caribbean western, you might say, set in Cuba during the Spanish-American War period)
Forty Lashes Less One
Three-Ten to Yuma
Valdez is Coming

They're all so good that you wish he'd written another 50 books along the same lines. I just don't think it's possible to write a western tale better than he does it.

Here's a website for some info:

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/l/elmore-leonard/


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 10:19 PM

So I was researching a piece on Ken Kesey a few years back, and discovered that he and McMurtry were in classes together at Stanford--Wallace Stegner's classes, I think.

             And there was some written communication between McMurtry and somebody in Oregon about the legacy of Neal Cassidy.

             McMurtry made the comment that Neal Cassidy was--paraphrasing--"an uneducated dozer driver, and he didn't want to get involved in something like that."

             Not realizing that you don't "drive" a dozer, I suspect McMurtry would make an ideal Obama voter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 06:55 PM

Hombre, yes?

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 06:24 PM

Leonard I don't believe I read any of his, I will have to check it out


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 06:17 PM

Yes, his portrayal of the characters in Lonesome Dove is extremely good.

However, there is one writer of westerns who I think is even better: Elmore Leonard. He has a somewhat different style from McMurtry. I don't think anyone can beat Elmore Leonard at writing a totally believable western adventure tale.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 04:04 PM

Little Hawk
but the world is full of people like that, the brilliance is his portrayal of those folks don't you think?


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Den
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 02:24 PM

I know Peter, I get it but its a great story none-the-less.

I think Gus and Call are a little more complex than we are giving them credit for LH. After all Gus was married twice before and I think that Call was always just awkward around women. I'm not sure that it is a maturity thing. I agree with you I think that Gus is a real character and I think that Duvall played him superbly. I remember an interview with Duvall and he talked about researching his part for Gus. He claims he talked to crotchity old Texas ranch hands and guys who could remember guys who did some rangering. I think that Gus may have been a bit like many of us, Laurie would have taken him for a husband but he wanted what he couldn't have. I think that Clare knew that too and at the end of the day she didn't really want him because deep down she knew he would never be able to settle him down. I grew up in Ireland and I knew men who were like Gus and Call, characters and maybe a little awkward around the womenfolk.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 01:17 PM

Yes, Den, I am a romantic. I always was. I think that women usually have their feet much more firmly planted in reality, and I like and respect them for it. I think that the men who go haring off into the wilds like Gus and Call and engaging in the male bonding escapades that Peter alludes to are fools.

However, if it makes them happy, then who am I to say that they shouldn't do it? ;-) (and it gives us great adventure stories too) I think, frankly, that they're just afraid of taking on real responsibility...and I can understand why they would be. It's a very scary business settling down to the domestic responsibilities of attending to a wife, a family, a home, and all that goes with it...and it lasts your whole life.

Now, taking on a bunch of Indians or bandits is scary too...but it doesn't usually last too long at all, and you can convince yourself that you're earning your rugged male laurels while you do it, and you can boast to your buddies about your heroics afterward...if you survive.

And if you don't? Well, the dead feel no pain, right?

Yup. I can understand where all that male bonding crap comes from. It's just avoidance of far more challenging and longlasting situations, that's all. It's an attempt to remain in childhood. Gus and Call were boys who never grew up, even if they were very good at killing people.

Call never could have grown up. He was emotionally incapable of it. Now, Gus...he could have. He had the emotional depth and the imagination to be able to grow up any time he decided to. That's why I find Gus's fate particularly tragic. His run of bad luck was bound to come some time.

He frittered his time away on trivialities until his clock ran out. There are a great many men who do that.

I'll say this, though. Gus was a hell of a likeable guy. Anyone would enjoy having him around.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 12:39 PM

It's an American male-bonding story, it had to end that way: women are civilization, a snare and a delusion, they destroy the single-minded integrity of the rugged male -- haven't you heard? It was in all the papers, movies, novels, teacosyies.........

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Den
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 12:34 PM

You can download Lonesome Dove and read it here


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Den
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 09:32 AM

You must be a romantic at heart LH. I'm coming late to this thread but I've enjoyed reading it none-the-less. I only ever read Lonesome Dove after I watched the mini series. I thought like others here that the mini series was probably the best movie of its genre ever. I enjoyed the book too and whoever wrote the screen play remained extremely faithful to the book.

In terms of Gus returning to Clare and settling down to a happily ever after. That was never going to happen. Gus had become to settled in his ways over they years. They were apart for too long and had become very different people to the young courting couple they were. How long to you think Clare would have tolerated Gus's penchant for drinking whiskey and playing cards. He mentions these pursuits as some of his favourite things to do in a conversation with Laurie. In the end it was just a run of bad luck that lead to Gus's demise.

One of my favourite lines from the movie happens as Gus strolls into the Dry Bean and tries to get everyone interested in a game of cards. He turns to Wanz and says, "put away that rag Wanz the people who come in here wouldn't notice if there was a dead skunk on that table much less a few crumbs."


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:40 PM

Blue Duck was not an easy man to shoot down. Anyway, in real life things don't usually go that neatly. Pancho Villa died, for instance, in a tawdry street assassination, shot up in his car, and he couldn't even come up with any noble dying words.

He said, "It can't end like this. Tell them I said something."

What a sad end for a man who had lived life to its dramatic fullness prior to that sudden and totally unexpected ending.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: kendall
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:31 PM

I didn't care for the way Blue Duck died. He chose his way out. I'd rather have seen Gus or Call shoot him down like the dog he was.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 09:31 AM

I was at the store the other day and I see that "Lonesome Dove" the TV miniseries has been re-released in a wide screen edition. It sounds like it was filmed that way in the first place. And now it's finally seen the light of day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 07 Feb 08 - 01:26 AM

I got started re-reading the Lonesome Dove books in chronological order. I finished Deadman's Walk and I'm moving on to Comanche Moon. Deadman's Walk was my least favorite of the four books and reading again reminded me why. Gus and Call are the main characters, but they don't drive the events in the story. If I wasn't already interested in them from the other books I'd probably wonder why McMurtry keeps talking about them.

Other random thoughts from reading Deadman's Walk…

Neither Gus or Call reminds me of anyone I know, but I know people act like Gus sometimes and like Call at other times. I wonder if McMurtry considered them two sides of one personality, especially since we know they go on to share command in the next two books.

I remembered the book as being split about half and half between the trip out to New Mexico and the trip back to Texas. I was surprised to find that the trip back was a short epilogue. I guess I remembered it as longer because there are some extremely vivid, unforgettable images in those pages. I had also forgotten that Gus and Call start out as a couple homeless street kids in Austin.

Sounds like they've some first-class talent lined up for Boone's Lick. Should be a good movie.
- Phil


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Wesley S
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 04:57 PM

I've just seen that McMurtrys book "Boone's Lick" is in production with Barry Levinson directing, Tom Hanks producing and starring along with Julianne Moore. That's an interesting combination.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 11:29 AM

Yeah, that's a recurrent theme in people's lives everywhere. Each succeeding generation experiences considerable discomfort with the future as it replaces the land they once knew. God knows, what I've seen happen to Toronto in the past 50 years is pretty horrifying...and I hate to think what will happen in the next few decades.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 01:24 AM

Gus and Call are fictional characters and changing their lives for the better probably isn't an option for them. But if it were an option I can't see why Gus shelving dry goods with Clara in Austin would be better life than the one McMurtry wrote for him. Obviously opinions vary on that topic.

The books, in addition to being ripping good yarns, seem more descriptive than philosophical to me. They provide a wealth of detail about how people might have acted and felt through that part of Texas history, but it's up to the reader to sort out what it all means. That's not to say there aren't recurring themes. One that sings to me is his characters' discomfort with the future as it replaces the Texas they know, which he describes in the Lonesome Dove and Thalia novels. I think about that a lot as Dallas engulfs our small town, and I drive to work past Walmarts and McDonalds where I used to drive past horses and cows.
- Phil


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 06:22 PM

Wow. Quite the place for a lover of books...


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 04:31 PM

Here's a link to McMurtry's bookstore called Booked Up

I unterstand that the store takes up several buildings. If you find a nice book in building 3 you still have to pay for it in building 1.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 04:28 PM

Of course he had no money worries at that time, but that's hardly the point. The point is, he wanted the book to be seen entirely on its own merit, because it was quite a different matter from his other books.

He spent 12 years researching Joan of Arc's life, and writing the book. He said that he needed no research at all to write any of his other books, that he simply wrote them off the top of his head. He regarded "Joan of Arc" as more important than all the others put together.

I think most people would be quite surprised to know that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 04:22 PM

I would guess that by the time Twain released Joan of Arc that he had no money worries at all.

By the way - I've heard that visitors to McMurtrys book store in Archer City Texas can find him working there and stocking the shelves from time to time. But we WON'T talk about his work or sign his books for customers. He's said to be a bit of a grump. But with the money he's made I guess he qualifies as an "eccentric".


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 04:13 PM

Ha! ;-) That is ironical, Wesley...but it's what tends to happen more often than not with writers and singers. Conan Doyle also got pretty fed up with Sherlock Holmes and tried eventually to kill him off, but enraged fans pressured him into bringing the great sleuth back into print.

In the case of "Joan of Arc", Mark Twain himself considered it to be far and away his favorite and most important book out of all the books that he had written...but he published it under an assumed name. He wanted it to be received strictly on its own merits, not as a "Mark Twain novel". That's how important the book was to him.

(It would have, of course, sold much better had he published it openly under his very well-known name.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 04:06 PM

I find it interesting what Larry McMurtry has to say about Lonesome Dove in the introduction he wrote in 2000 for a reprinting of the book he wrote in 1985. He essentially calls it an albatross around his neck. He compares it to Henry James being "pestered"   about "Daisy Miller" and that Bing Crosby hated singing "White Christmas". He says that :

"Artists have sometimes found to their bafflement that they have more or less been trapped by the unexpected and unrelenting popularity of a work to which they themselves had initially attached little importance. In my case the culprit is Lonesome Dove which now seems as remote from me as the Arthuriad or the Matter of Troy – but which blooms eternally – a living Myth-Flower to it's readers or watchers"


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 03:47 PM

Yes, you could say that....but it's not necessarily so. I suggest you read Mark Twain's biography of Joan of Arc (and you'll find plenty of scoundrels in that story to add excitement...) or read a biography of Mahatma Gandhi....or one of Buddha...or of Lao-Tse...or of Jesus...or of other great leaders who selflessly dedicated their lives to help the society they were in and confront and defeat the corruption and oppression around them.

While those stories may be a rather different form of entertainment from the standard "adventure" story with its heros and villains...they are in fact stories of far greater significance for humanity in every way and they make for very compelling reading.

Just as moving and powerful as "Lonesome Dove"...but fundamentally different.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 03:30 PM

Songs about sinners are far more interesting than songs about saints.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 03:28 PM

True enough. ;-)

Now then there's Blue Duck...a man who spent his entire adult life indiscriminately raping, murdering, burning, looting, killing, torturing....he was the ultimate example of a wasted life that you could possibly find. Yet, he was obviously quite proud of himself. Such is the misplaced pride of the heartless warrior, a person whose death is greeted with joy and celebration by virtually everyone he has ever known, because he never did one good thing for anyone in his whole life.

But it all makes for a great story, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 01:21 PM

"despite their mastery of the manly arts of shooting, roping, fighting, and riding."

Those manly arts only require good eye-hand coordination. No maturity or smarts needed to master those.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 01:13 PM

Yes, so it seems. ;-) Perhaps Gus and Woodrow were really just rambunctious boys at heart who never quite grew up...despite their mastery of the manly arts of shooting, roping, fighting, and riding.

Women know better. I can say that with no reservations, despite the fact that I am not a woman.

Without women to keep it on track the whole human world as we know it would have gone to hell and destruction a long time ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 01:03 PM

I think that Gus's overriding drive was toward the next great "adventure". Even if that adventure was a stunning failure it was still to be sought out and enjoyed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 12:57 PM

The "music", unquestionably, is great.

I'd rather that Gus had woken up at some point, realized "I am doing myself no favors following Woodrow around to his next mistake. I can do better than this." and had gone back to the woman that loved him and thereby saved what was left of his own life and potential.

He could have done it. He was capable of turning his life around. Woodrow wasn't.

I hate seeing people who are capable of rising above their own foolishness fail to do it. The one great foe anyone faces in life is their own foolishness. I'd rather see them conquer it than be conquered BY it. It's the central drama of human existence. It's the greatest challenge of our lives.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 12:48 PM

I suppose my weakness is for a well-developed character, if I have to choose an overriding impression in film. We see so little of it, especially on the big screen. "Lonesome Dove," which I still rate as among the best of all western films I have experienced, excels in this. I found myself disturbed by Gus's death, and by his choices in life. I found myself thoroughly disliking Woodrow, though the character was riveting for its own reasons, not the least of which was Tommy Lee Jones' stoic and very believable performance.

I have "known" these people in real life in some way. I may have disliked or been disappointed by them, but I still remember them. I have known, in my own cattle ranch upbringing, the ironic humor and stoic behavior, sometimes unfathomable, of modern counterparts to these characters. McMurtry obviously knew them as well.

I frankly don't give a damn what the author's personal demons or beliefs may be. I like this stuff for the same reason many conductors still like Wagner, though they loathe the composer. It's the music, dammit!


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 11:41 AM

Here's some trivia about Lonesome Dove from www.imdb.com:

Originally written by Larry McMurtry in 1971 as a movie script. He intended John Wayne to play Woodrow Call, James Stewart to play Gus McCrae and Henry Fonda to play Jake Spoon, with Peter Bogdanovich directing. Wayne turned it down, and the project was shelved. Ten years later McMurtry bought the script back and wrote the book (on which the series was based).

Charles Bronson turned down the role of Woodrow Call

Robert Duvall was cast as Woodrow Call but then got the part of Augustus. James Garner was chosen next but bowed out for health reasons, and Jon Voight turned down the role, so Tommy Lee Jones was cast. However, both Garner and Voight would portray Woodrow Call in sequels.

The set of San Antonio street, at the Alamo, is the set built for Alamo: The Price of Freedom (1988). It was designed by Roger Ragland.

The Latin phrase, "uva uvam vivendo varia fit" that appears on the Hat Creek Cattle Company sign translates to "a cluster of grapes through living begets one grape," representing the synthesis of Larry McMurtry's tale as an American epic.

Virtually every major role from this film has also appeared in one of its sequels, and almost all of them have been recast, sometimes several times. In three cases, original cast member have been able to work with one of their successors. Timothy Scott reprised his role in the unofficial sequel "Return to Lonesome Dove" (1993) (mini), but died before production began on the official sequel, "Streets of Laredo" (1995) (mini). He was replaced by Sam Shepard, who had directed him in Silent Tongue (1994). Tommy Lee Jones was replaced in "Streets of Laredo" by James Garner, with whom he appeared in Space Cowboys (2000). Danny Glover was replaced in the prequel "Comanche Moon" (2008) (mini) by Keith Robinson, with whom he appeared in Dreamgirls (2006).

The set for Ogalalla, Nebraska, was originally a set built for Silverado (1985), which also starred Danny Glover.

For authenticity the producers decided to use real ranch horses in the movie. When the effect of "bullets" hit below Gus' horse, the response was genuine and Duvall was actually bucked off. Because it lent itself to the authenticity everyone desired, the cameras continued rolling and the scene was kept in the final cut.


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Subject: RE: BS: Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove series
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:48 PM

I rather liked what I saw of Comanche Moon on the TV, particularly the actors who played Gus and Clara. I've starting re-reading the books, and thought the actors caught Gus and Clara pretty well.
- Phil


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