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BS: Obama bin Laden???...
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Subject: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Bobert Date: 26 Feb 08 - 02:11 PM Well, well, well... Reporter to Hillary: "Did you send that picture to the AP of Obama in Muslim garb?" Hillary: "Are you talkin' to me?" Let the Swift-boating begin... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Peace Date: 26 Feb 08 - 02:16 PM "Ever seen Hillary naked? Wanna buy some pictures?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Don Firth Date: 26 Feb 08 - 02:31 PM Here is my response to any "swift boater" type who comes dancing up to me with comments about "Obama bin Laden." SPLAT!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Bobert Date: 26 Feb 08 - 03:35 PM Yeah, there's somethin' a little fishy about this, Don... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Wesley S Date: 26 Feb 08 - 03:50 PM So what's the story? Details please..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Emma B Date: 26 Feb 08 - 03:58 PM link (click) Not a 'Muslim garb' at all but the dress of a Somali 'elder' However who released this photo with its 'negative' overtones in a Islamophobic atmosphere is the real 'story' I suppose :( |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Victor in Mapperton Date: 26 Feb 08 - 04:03 PM Guy up in court over here in UK today calls himself "Osama bin London". Read on the BBC. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Charley Noble Date: 26 Feb 08 - 04:04 PM Don- What was that fish? Looked like a cod to me. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 26 Feb 08 - 04:05 PM I don't think Hillary Clinton is responsible. She's too smart and calculating to not realize that such a ploy stands at least as good a chance of backfiring as working. Smear tactics like that work on Bubba and Jim Bob, but guess what? Bubba and Jim Bob aren't going to vote for either Obama or Clinton! They'll just drink their beers until November and vote for McCain. But note that I said I don't think Hillary Clinton is responsible. She has a husband who has exhibited a tendency to think with parts of his anatomy other than his brain on several occasions. I wouldn't be surprised to find he's behind this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 26 Feb 08 - 04:06 PM Here's a not dissimilar picture of Prince Charles And here is not too dissimilar one of Dubya and a friend |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Jim Lad Date: 26 Feb 08 - 05:23 PM John McCain had to apologize because someone at his rally said Obama's full name! He just said his name! Didn't even draw a cartoon! What is wrong with you people? Is this the chosen one? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: irishenglish Date: 26 Feb 08 - 05:29 PM Bill Cunningham, the conserevative talk radio host, kept saying Barack Hussein Obama this, and Barack Hussein Obama that. Kudos to McCain for jumping on this and saying he did not approve of those remarks. (Yes, I'm sure some campaign staffer told him to, but still) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: George Papavgeris Date: 26 Feb 08 - 05:51 PM I would worry seriously if I thought that I lived in a society where tricks like that can have an effect. Salem wouldn't seem to be that far under the skin. Or at least there seem to be some people who think so, and who believe that they can exploit the gullible and allophobic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 26 Feb 08 - 08:00 PM "Allophobic" is a new one on me, and my dictionary - am I right to take it it means about the same as xenophobic. I'm not quite so sure that we live in a society in England where variants on this wouldn't actually have an effect in some elections. Though I think the more dominent effect would that people would see the candidate in the odd costume as a bit ridiculous. (As in that picture of Prince Charles - and the thing is from his expression he knows perfectly well that people are going to see it as funny). I don't think that would be just because the costume was foreign. I'm sure that a photo of Gordon Brown in Highland costume would get the same reaction. Or even more so if he dressed as a Morris Dancer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Jim Lad Date: 26 Feb 08 - 08:14 PM "he did not approve of those remarks" What remarks? So determined are these folks that they have deified his name before he even wins the nomination. Wouldn't the British media just be all over this if a candidate was so adored that the unwashed dare not speak his name? What absolute and utter stupidity! Mind you there are a few former Celtic players, worthy of such status. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: GUEST,TIA Date: 26 Feb 08 - 08:46 PM My bet is that FOX News is in on this one. They get to repeatedly show Obama in an outfit that they know their basebots will see as proving that he really *is* muslim, and as a bonus twofer, they get to blame Hillary for pulling a "Clintonista" dirty trick (while showing the picture again). All the while seizing the false high ground by mildly disapproving of the whole flap. It's just like the Obama-went-to-a-madrassa propaganda trick they pulled. They got to report that "some say" he went to a madrassa (whilst showing side-by-side pictures of a madrassa and a young Obama), and report that "some say" that the Clinton campaign was behind the rumor, and act disapproving of the whole thing while they push it relentlessly. They are master of tricks Goebbels would be envious of. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Charley Noble Date: 26 Feb 08 - 08:47 PM Hopefully there will be enough said during the primary campaign that the regular voters will be innoculated. It's really a tough job for some to think through what someone will say, and realize that it's relatively innocuous but in the context of NATIONAL SECURITY TERRORISM explosive. I also tend to go defensive at this point when someone mentions Muslims, or even Liberals. We're being played big time. What a world to live in. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 26 Feb 08 - 08:54 PM Perhaps irishenglish should have used a different word besides "remarks". The gist of the issue is that the radio show host was blatantly emphasizing Obama's middle name, "Hussein", intending to establish a totally spurious connection between him and a more infamous bearer of the same name. Nevermind that Obama was born in Africa and "Hussein" is one of the most common male names in many Arab countries and parts of Africa. No matter whom one might support in the election, attempting to get mileage from the purely coincidental fact that a candidate shares a part of his name with an unsavory character is hitting below the belt. If someone happened to be named "Bush" or "Kennedy", but was unrelated to the famous families baering those names, would it be fair for an announcer to place undue emphasis on that part of their names in an attempt to create the impression of a connection that doesn't exist? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Kent Davis Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:04 AM I agree with your point, Bee-dubya-ell, but Obama was not born in Africa. He was born in Hawaii. Kent |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Jim Lad Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:28 AM To some, the "More infamous bearer of the same name" was a national leader & martyr who was driven to the ground by a foreign nation and hanged for his oil. What amazes me is that Barack Hussein Obama has risen so rapidly in the minds of Americans (with a great deal of help from the media) that every media outlet feels the need to jump to his aid every time there is even a hint of an insult tossed his way. Every slanderous act committed by him is either ignored or excused by the masses & his political opponent in the same party is demonized. Now, you can't even say his name. Shouldn't that make you afraid? At what point do you say "Wait a minute"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Jim Lad Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:37 AM "Nevermind that Obama was born in Africa and "Hussein" is one of the most common male names in many Arab countries and parts of Africa." You know: Bee-dubya-ell... don't be offended by this. It's not my intention but I totally missed this earlier. What people believe about this man and whatever piece of misinformation they use to justify supporting him, very often has about as much substance to it than that statement. You have to be born in the U.S. to become president of that country. I'm guessing that you are not American or you would have known that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: GUEST,TIA Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:47 AM How could Bee-dubya-ell be offended by that? The only proper response is "HUH?" Now, Jim Lad. Can you honestly say that Mr. Cunningham's comments were *not* intended as defamatroy - even if Hussein really is Obama's middle name. It's a bit like calling a black man who has a nephew "Uncle Tom", and then saying "Well, he *is* an Uncle Tom!" to anyone who is offended. But, perhaps if you are not American, you will not understand that one. (Hint - if you ignore the intent, and defend only the literal meaning of everything, you are likely to not understand a lot...no matter what country you are from) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: GUEST,TIA Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:49 AM Oops. Of course, I meant "deframtoya" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: harpmolly Date: 27 Feb 08 - 01:50 AM :) "His name's Barack Obama, That's right--Obama, Sounds like Osama, I'm just the hundred forty-seven millionth person to have made that idiotic point!" --Roy Zimmerman, "Eine Kleine Barackmusic" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Jim Lad Date: 27 Feb 08 - 03:58 AM His name is Barack Hussein Obama. Hope that doesn't offend anyone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 27 Feb 08 - 04:16 AM And if a candidate happened to have the unfortunate middle name "Adolf" there'd be no malevolent intent in stressing that fact repeatedly for the benefit of any Jewish voters? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Jim Lad Date: 27 Feb 08 - 06:21 AM Nope but "George Bush" would certainly shiver me dangly bits! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Greg F. Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:54 AM I would worry seriously if I thought that I lived in a society where tricks like that can have an effect. Some advice for for ya if you live in the Good Ol' U S of A: Start worrying seriously. They can and do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: katlaughing Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:03 AM Every slanderous act committed by him is either ignored or excused by the masses... What slanderous acts, Jim Lad? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: harpmolly Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:34 AM Jim Lad: I'd submit that, especially in the current climate, there is a huge difference between simply "saying his name" and going around saying, "Barack HUSSEIN Obama," repeatedly stressing the middle name to emphasize the spurious relationship between his name and that of Public Enemy No. 2 (see my post above for reference to public enemy no.1). It's not the act of saying the name itself, it's the act of purposely emphasizing part of it to play on the bigotry/fears of a certain portion of the populace that I find disgusting. OK, I'm basically repeating what McGrath said. I haven't had my coffee yet, okay?!? ;) P.S. I'm no fan of the war in Iraq, but characterizing Saddam Hussein as a martyr is too stomach-turning even for me. Unfortunately I'll concede that we may have created his martyrdom for him, at least in the minds of the Iraqis. However, the fact that the U.S. did some really idiotic harm by illegally invading doesn't excuse his own horrific actions over the years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Amos Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:38 AM This sort of emotive skewing is distortive even when it is "just the fact". It is narrow minded and hateful, and should be scorned by anyone who believes in rational dialogue, and recognized for the twisting that it is. If I sound a little warm under the collar, its because nothing makes me angrier than an intentional effort to make people react to push-button associations, blindly, instead of looking for themselves and seeing what is there. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: harpmolly Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:45 AM Hear, hear! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: George Papavgeris Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:52 AM Kevin, "allophobic" = fearful of things different to the norm (allo- = another) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Amos Date: 27 Feb 08 - 11:28 AM What is wrong with you people? Is this the chosen one? What's wrong with you, Jim Lad? Of course he's not the chosen one in some mystic sense. He hasn't even finished being chosen, yet. But a lot of people are going to choose him, because he represents things they hold to be important -- clear thought, even-handed and rational dialogue, and the intention to make things work better than they do. As for just saying the guy's name, why that's no biggy, obviously -- unless there is a passive-aggressive, covert attempt to turn a simple happenstance series of phonemes into political capital by emphasizing it snidely. That seems to be the case here, and I am surprised you didn't notice it. The candidate's name, in general use, is "Barack Obama". Don't be disingenuous. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Jim Lad Date: 27 Feb 08 - 11:36 AM Well I didn't hear any emphasis on his middle name but I am neither an Obama, Clinton nor McCain supporter. I am extremely impressed with Hilary, given that she is still standing after all that has been thrown at her. My choice would have been Edwards with Hilary in the second chair. Obama & McCain both scare me. Now I'll take my leave before the e-mailing starts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: mg Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:05 PM oh for heavens sakes..there was also King Hussein..why not refer to him now and then to counteract this. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 27 Feb 08 - 01:29 PM And there's also Nasser Hussain, who captained the English national cricket team a few years back. But I don't think that would have been the intended reference either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 08 - 01:44 PM Hillary Clinton, wife of the Blow Job King. (Fun game, huh?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 08 - 01:52 PM Hillary has, by virtue of staying married to an adulterer and thus indicating that it's OK to commit adultery (despite implying she is a God-fearing person of good moral character), wants to be President. What will happen to the Nation if it is led by a deceitful individual like her? The shame! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 08 - 01:55 PM I don't doubt that Obama has handled a penis in his life. Would you want a pervert like that to be the Leader of America? HE TOUCHED A PENIS! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 08 - 01:55 PM McCain has too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Amos Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:03 PM I say, NO PENIS TASTERS IN THE OVAL ORIFICE!!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:05 PM Obama openly ADMITS to marrying a woman. Does this then mean he denigrates the gay vote? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: bobad Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:06 PM Elect a eunuch! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:08 PM The same--except different--can be said of Hillary. She married a MAN (of sorts). It is clear that she is possibly going to enact legislation that takes away the rights of lesbien people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:11 PM Obama may decide to enact legislation that forces ALL people, regardless of skin tone, to become Black so as to help end prejudice based on colour. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:13 PM Hillary may decide that all men must get their nuts removed because then there will be no discrimination based on sex/gender. (I trust whoever is doing Bill's will watch that Monica's mouth doesn't get cut in the process. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:15 PM ) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Don Firth Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:32 PM This thread seems to be swimming in the very septic tank of American politics. PEE-YOO!! By the way, Charlie, in reference to my above post of 26 Feb 08 - 02:31 p.m., my favorite implement for the operation depicted there (my response to those who try to peddle the kind of crap that is the subject of this thread) is the "piece of cod which passeth all understanding," the wily and elusive lutefisk. A big slab of the stuff, prior to preparation for cooking of course, when it's stiff as a board! Also, I would be sure the canal is well stocked with piranhas. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:46 PM None of the candidates have avowed that they will ensure fish is served in the White House at least once a week. Do NONE of them have any respect for people who fish for a living? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:46 PM Also, I understand that McCain is a latent heteroSEXUAL! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:47 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Peace Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:54 PM Ralph Nader is against the workingman. He has spent lots of time over the years using the courts as a cover to deal with his friends in BIG BUSINESS. I don't know that for fact, but when ya throw shit at the wall just to see what sticks, facts themselves don't mean a fu#kin' thing, anyway. Now, I am off this thread. However, I reserve the right to smear the candidates and then justify it when and where I choose. I know many of you agree because you have demonstrated that on this thread and therefore MUST agree. BFN. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 27 Feb 08 - 03:10 PM I apologize for not realizing Obama was born in Hawaii. I knew he spent his childhood there, but thought it was due to a move after he was born. But as to Jim Lad's comment, "You have to be born in the U.S. to become president of that country. I'm guessing that you are not American or you would have known that." here's the appropriate section of the U.S. Constitution (Article II - Section 1): "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States." The requirement for being a natural born citizen of the U.S. is that either (A) you are born on U.S. soil or (B) at least one of your parents is a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth. That would make Obama elligible regardless of where he was born as his mother was a U.S. citizen. Thousands of natural born U.S. citizens are born every year to parents who happen to be living or working abroad. As to my not being American, both my parents are U.S. citizens and I was born in the U.S. Naval Hospital at Camp Pendleton in Oceanside, California. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Amos Date: 27 Feb 08 - 03:19 PM GAwdammit BWL -- whud you leave for? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: artbrooks Date: 27 Feb 08 - 06:14 PM The Marines wouldn't take him? :>) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: artbrooks Date: 27 Feb 08 - 06:18 PM GUEST, 10:50 AM - one of the house rules here is that you must use a consistent name, by putting something - anything - in the FROM box. If you don't, deletion is the least that may happen to you. Another alternative is killer electrons being forced back to your computer and you being zapped between the eyebrows. :>) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 27 Feb 08 - 07:39 PM I didn't have much choice about leaving, Amos. Dad's hitch in the Marines was up and I wasn't yet a year old. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Jim Lad Date: 27 Feb 08 - 07:51 PM Bee-dubya-ell: Read it again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 27 Feb 08 - 07:58 PM Read what again? I'm apparently stupid. Please point it out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Jim Lad Date: 27 Feb 08 - 08:46 PM No, you are not stupid. You are just misinterpreting what you read. Read this...."No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;" and this...."neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States." That's why Arnold ain't running. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Ron Davies Date: 27 Feb 08 - 08:49 PM Jim-- Obama scares you? That's the reason for your pattern? You make a snide comment about him--e.g. that Hillary gets her contributions from small donors, in contrast to Obama. Then when called on this obvious falsehood, you back off, whining that this is just an internet forum--and therefore, evidently, that nobody should be interested in accuracy and sources. And now you're back saying that emphasizing "Hussein" as Obama's middle name is no big deal--at a time of rampant Islamophobia, stoked by our current alleged leader, and endorsed by courageous giant intellects on Mudcat like our beloved pdq. Certainly hope that racism is not behind your attitude--we don't need that, and you'd best be aware of that fact. Of course, having "the milk of human kindness by the quart in every vein", I will assume that you are in fact not racist, just abysmally ignorant. Your contributions on the current US political scene so far support this diagnosis to the n'th degree. Where in the US do you live, that you know so little about current political conditions? If you are by some chance outside the US, it would behoove you to find better sources of information--easy to do on the Net--and to find them before favoring us again with your incisive insights. When I comment on Hillary, I support my charges with facts. You for some reason seem to be averse to facts and sources--you seem rather to prefer innuendo and disingenuous smearing. Are you by some chance a wholly owned subsidiary of Rig's Smears R Us? A principled defense can be made of some of Hillary's behavior--but there's a world of difference between that and your ill-informed, if not smarmy approach. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Riginslinger Date: 27 Feb 08 - 08:53 PM "Are you by some chance a wholly owned subsidiary of Rig's Smears R Us?" No! I attempted a leveraged buyout, but was unsucessful. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Jim Lad Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:06 PM Ron Davies: Your total disregard for the facts, misrepresentation of my views and name calling, along with your snide accusations of racial prejudice , make you one of the most repulsive individuals whom I have ever had the misfortune to encounter on this site. For your punishment, you get to be you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:16 PM Squabble, squabble... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Jim Lad Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:51 PM No, MOH. Interrupting a political debate to offer that kind of personal insult, has no place in any forum. It is absolutely inexcusable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:02 PM Jim, Arnold isn't running because he's a naturalized citizen of the United States, not a natural-born citizen. He was born an Austrian citizen and went through a legal process to become a U.S. citizen. Madeleine Albrght also cannot run for President because she also is a naturalized citizen. She was born a citizen of Czechoslavakia. But even if Obama had been born in Kenya, as I mistakenly thought he had been, he would still be a natural-born citizen of the U.S. because his mother was a U.S. citizen. The law or the United States regarding birth-right citizenship, also known as natural-born citizenship, is this: 1) Any person born on U.S. territory is automatically a citizen of the Unitied States, regardless of the citizenship status of his parents. The only notable exception to this rule is that the children of foreign diplomats or occupying forces are not automatically U.S. citizens. 2) Any person whose mother is a citizen of the United States is automatically a U.S. citizen regardless of whether or not the birth takes place on U.S. soil. It makes no difference whether or not the father is a U.S. citizen. 3) Any person whose father is a U.S. citizen, but whose mother is not, is automatically a U.S. citizen, provided that the father acknowledges paternity by the child's 18th birthday. Any natural-born citizen can run for President, regardless of where he was born, regardless of where he grew up, as long as he's at least 35 years old and has lived in the U.S. for fourteen years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Amos Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:32 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Jim Lad Date: 27 Feb 08 - 11:26 PM Thanks Bee-dubya-ell: I don't know about the last part but the rest is right. There are many U.S. citizens who were born in military bases in foreign countries. That is because the Military Bases are regarded as U.S. soil. Same goes for embassies. As far as having an American parent and being born TO another country. I don't know. I'll take your word for it. Having said all that. Where did the idea that he was born in Africa come from? Is this a popular misconception or just something you picked up wrong? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: artbrooks Date: 28 Feb 08 - 12:52 AM "Military Bases are regarded as U.S. soil." Not hardly. Most bases are subject to what is called a Status of Forces Agreement, which governs the legal status of military personnel. Some SOFAs also include military dependents and US citizens who are employed on base. Depending on the terms of the SOFA, these civilians may or may not be subject to local legal processes. In many cases, a civilian committing a crime on a military base is liable to prosecution according to the laws of the host nation; in others (and Japan is one) members of the military are subject to local law if they commit an offense against a local national, on base or not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Jim Lad Date: 28 Feb 08 - 03:22 AM But for the purpose of being born there? That's what we're talking about. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 28 Feb 08 - 07:04 AM Jim, just a mistake on my part. Like all patriarchal misogynists I assume everyone is born in his father's homeland.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 28 Feb 08 - 10:15 AM If bases were "regarded as US soil" in American law they wouldn't ahve been able to get away with all the dodgy stuff in Guantanamo Bay, which has been founded on the claim that since it is not US soil, US laws don't apply there. (And nor do Cuban laws.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: irishenglish Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:17 AM Jim Lad and Bee dubya ell-was away from here for a day, but the gripe you have with me using one SINGLE word, "remarks" is puzzling and, nitpicking. Any number of news sources when that happened talked about Bill Cunningham's remarks, and John McCain's distancing himself from those same remarks. Don't believe me? Google Bill Cunningham, you'll see. Can't believe you even bother wasting your time with that-what else are you supposed to call it? "The opening statement, dialogue, diatrabe, hogwash, introduction, etc." Hmm... I have a better one, how about remarks? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:21 AM Or "what he said". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Amos Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:49 PM From Salon.com: "Obama should be proud to be named Hussein The attacks on Barack Obama's middle name have begun, but the likely Democratic nominee joins a long line of famous Americans with Semitic names, from Benjamin Franklin to Omar Bradley. By Juan Cole Feb. 28, 2008 | In Cincinnati, Bill Cunningham, according to the Los Angeles Times, introducing presidential candidate John McCain at a rally Tuesday, "ridiculed Democratic contender Barack Obama for his intention to meet with 'world leaders who want to kill us' and pointedly referred to the Illinois senator as 'Barack Hussein Obama.'" John McCain repudiated Cunningham's low tactics and said that using the middle name like that three times was "inappropriate" and would never happen again at one of his rallies. I want to say something about Barack Hussein Obama's name. It is a name to be proud of. It is an American name. It is a blessed name. It is a heroic name, as heroic and American in its own way as the name of Gen. Omar Nelson Bradley or the name of Benjamin Franklin. And denigrating that name is a form of racial and religious bigotry of the most vile and debased sort. It is a prejudice against names deriving from Semitic languages! Christian, Western heroes have often been bequeathed Middle Eastern names. Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar, the medieval Spanish hero, carried the name El Cid, from the Arabic al-Sayyid, "the Lord." Barack and Hussein are Semitic words. Americans have been named with Semitic names since the founding of the republic. Fourteen of our 43 presidents have had Semitic names (see below). And American English contains many Arabic-derived words that we use every day and without which we would be much impoverished. America is a world civilization with a world heritage, something Cunningham will never understand." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 28 Feb 08 - 04:19 PM Think of Hussein as an Arabic equivalent of Kevin. Both names mean the same - good looking. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Jim Lad Date: 28 Feb 08 - 10:52 PM Please: No more idiotic PMs. Thank You. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:11 AM Well, Jim Lad, doesn't appreciate PM's. That's now clear. I usually consider PM's a useful a non-public option for communicating with people whose comments appear "off the wall." I've actually had some good experiences with PM's, and gained a broader impression of some posters I've disagreed with, and even gained mutual respect. I will note that Jim Lad considers such attempts to be civil "idiotic." Next time, Jim Lad, don't bother with the "please" and "thank you." Just say whatever you really feel like saying. Cheerily, Charley Noble Note to Joe Clones: consider deleting this post or the whole thread |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Stringsinger Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:58 AM OBL is dead. Bhutto said so before she died. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Kim C Date: 29 Feb 08 - 10:48 AM Hey Look! A chicken! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Ron Davies Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:37 PM Jim-- I note you've just made another Mudcat friend. Congratulations. As for your earlier response to my post, I assure you my heart bleeds for you, truly. Now, are you going to start actually giving sources and facts or just continue running off at the mouth? I notice that though it seemed you perhaps might not have agreed with my representation of your views, you still have not answered the question. And by the way, do you still think it's perfectly fine to emphasize Obama's middle name over and over? I suppose that's just another way of asking just how clueless you are. Perhaps you are actually unaware that at a time of Islamophobia, as I noted, implying a connection between Obama and Saddam is really not a nice thing to do. And if you don't think that saying Barack Hussein Obama over and over is implying a connection, you, like Teribus, need to spend some time at your public library finding out about propaganda. It's interesting that that sledge-hammer approach to propaganda seems still to have been too subtle for you. One thing I do agree with you on however--if you have a criticism to make, a PM is not the right medium. If you have some critical comment to make, best to make it right out in the open where everybody can see it--though obviously if they don't like it, they can skip a particular post. Looking forward to your next calm, even-tempered post. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Ron Davies Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:45 PM By the way, Rig, good one on the "leveraged buyout"! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Mar 08 - 07:43 PM Here's a link to what Jim Wallis of the Sojourners ("Christians for Justice and Peace") wrote about all this - Defending the Facts on Obama's Faith: "...a loud-mouth radio talk show host in Cincinnati let loose with a barrage of disparaging remarks against Senator Obama and kept using his middle name—Barack HUSSEIN Obama—over and over, seemingly to tie into the Internet accusations that Obama is really a Muslim who, as a child, attended a Muslim "madrassa" school in Indonesia that taught Islamic fundamentalism, etc." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 02 Mar 08 - 08:06 PM Way up there somewhere, 'allophobic' was applied to at least some people. It is in neither the OED nor Webster's, so it must be a very dirty word. Shame on you! Perhaps he should change his name- to Abdul Abulbul Amir? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Donuel Date: 03 Mar 08 - 08:07 PM Speaking of Arnold, my wife spent some time with him and his wife today along with about 14 more of the Kennedy clan. They named a wing at work after Eunice so all the Kenedy's showd up, including the extranious genetic material from Schwartzenegger. She said he is barely 5 ft eleven. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Amos Date: 03 Mar 08 - 08:17 PM Allo- (A Greek root, I think) == "Different"\\Phobic (Gr. phobos, fear) "fearing". Compare allopathic -- medicine that heals by administering substances different than that causing the disease, such as antbiotics. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Charley Noble Date: 03 Mar 08 - 09:16 PM I also have a bone to pick with Don but that's so buried in this thread by what's his name's posts that Don will never see it. Don, the boniest fish in the world is the shad. In fact I can attest that shad are all bone, no meat at all, despite what my grandmother would say, such as "Shut up an' eat your shad!" I don't have a clue what Obama's postion on shad is, nor Clinton's for that matter. Maybe Amos has some idea, a voice of reason in this cavern of echoes. Let there be light! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Ron Davies Date: 03 Mar 08 - 11:27 PM Well, now look who's playing the "Obama may be a Moslem" game. From 60 Minutes 2 Mar 2008: Steve Kroft: "You don't believe that Sen Obama is a Moslem" Hillary Clinton: " Of course not. I mean, that, you know, there is no basis for that. I take him on the basis of what he says. And, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that". Kroft: You said you'd take Senator Obama at his word that he's not... a Moslem. You don't believe that he's..." Clinton: (interrupting): No. No there is nothing to base that on. As far as I know." "As far as I know". Thank you, Mr Cheney. (Shades of --Did Saddam cause 9-11? "I'm not here to state that.") Look, Hillary is a lawyer. She knows exactly how to leave no doubt---and how to leave doubt. This is nothing short of completely despicable. And what happened to the "reject and denounce" standard she demanded re: Farrakhan? Only a one-way street, it appears. Particularly revolting since she also likes to use the Farrakhan connection attack. And of course Obama has also been attacked for belonging to a church with a predominantly black focus. So he may be a Moslem. Or he may be member of a church with few whites. Whichever Hillary supporters want to use at a given point. There is a qualitative difference between attacking your opponent on the basis of political disagreements or corruption charges and smearing on a religious basis--especially, as noted earlier, playing into the well-known Islamophobia now infesting the US. But Hillary, in her desperation, appears to conveniently forgotten the difference. For that, even if there were nothing else, she deserves to lose the nomination. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Ron Davies Date: 03 Mar 08 - 11:35 PM Ah, yes, one other possibility: he may be a Moslem masquerading as a Christian--another theory I've seen on the Net. All options left by her statement. Thank you, Hillary. Perhaps you should join your spouse--you can be assistant dogcatcher to help him out--sounds about right for the pair of you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:59 AM Isn't it her turn to be in charge? That would mean Bill as assistant dogcatcher... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Amos Date: 04 Mar 08 - 10:15 AM I also take Hillary at her word that she is not a lesbian meth-amphetamine addict. Sure, there have been rumours, but, no I think we should accept what she tells us in rebuttal. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Ron Davies Date: 04 Mar 08 - 11:41 PM Yes, I've always said that I can't imagine where the rumors that Hillary is a lesbian meth addict come from. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Amos Date: 05 Mar 08 - 10:55 AM There must be some reason people go around everywhere passing that rumor about her being a lesbian meth-addict, you know--the old saying, "where there's smoke, there's fire" comes to mind. But really, if she says there's no truth to those rumors, maybe we should just give her the benefit of the doubt. I think that's the charitable thing to do, don't you? We don't want her to get all strung out. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Ron Davies Date: 06 Mar 08 - 08:37 PM Yes, but I don't think we should use that expression "strung out". That tends to play into the unproven allegation that Hillary is a meth addict. We should think of another, more neutral expression. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Riginslinger Date: 07 Mar 08 - 08:06 AM I don't know. Most of the meth addicts I've met are really, really skinny, and have a lot of teeth missing. Somehow Hillary just doesn't look like a meth addict. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Amos Date: 07 Mar 08 - 09:44 AM Well, I dunno, Rig. Your opinion about the rumor that she is a lesbian meth-addict is that she doesn't look like a meth addict to you. Well, I respect that, but at the same time, can we really just go by appearances? Wouldn't that be a little superficial? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Riginslinger Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:11 AM I suppose, and of course, she could have false teeth too! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: GUEST,Neil D Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:16 AM What's this? Hillary is Lebanese Methodist? My God man! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: GUEST,Neil D Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:38 AM With Wesleyan tendencies? No way can she be president. This is the 100th post. Yeah, me! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Amos Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:44 AM Nope. THis is. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Amos Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:45 AM Damn. I goofed the fluke on that one, didn't I!! :D A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Ron Davies Date: 07 Mar 08 - 11:48 PM Lebanese Methodist and lesbian meth addict? Well, I don't know anything about the first accusation, maybe you can explore the validity of that one, Neil. But Amos and I are trying to squelch the rumor of her meth addiction, in particular. And I don't think it's fair to speculate on her possible lesbian tendencies. But after all, if there is anything to it, she sure didn't have very good luck in her main heterosexual connection--so I think we should cut her some slack. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama bin Laden???... From: Riginslinger Date: 08 Mar 08 - 04:52 PM I can't imagine anyone who has been exposed to a chronic meth user who would think for a minute that Hillary was one. |
