UK betrayed too.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: sapper82
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 03:07 PM

so Dianne, who was the worker who lost an eye when attacked by the thugs in the flying picket? We know the person who organised the attack, but not the victim.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 02:53 PM

Just dropped by to look at what "Appaloosa Lady / madlizziecornish" was up to (blathering tripe as usual) only to find someone else spouting the usual 30-year-old lies about exploited film processing workers and building trade unionists fighting the lump.

Before "sapper" drops himself down an even deeper hole, let me explain that I covered (in shifts with other reporters) the Shrewsbury 24 trial at Mold Crown Court and that I took the newsroom call from Jack Dromey who was down at Brent Trades Council advising the Grunwick strikers and subsequently was present on many an early morning picket.

Each of these workers' actions in the cause of decent working conditions were lost because employers hung on to what they had at the expense of working people about whom they gave not a toss.

Asian (and other) women are still brutally exploited at dismal workplaces the length and breadth of the land. And building workers are still subjected to dangerous and inhuman conditions for a pittance. Neither have the option in most instances of fighting back for their rights because these have been ever more eroded and the power of unions stamped on.

Ever considered WHY it's not always a majority that is able to stand up and fight? They're too scared, and they can't, in most cases, afford to. Victorian children in blacking factories or up chimneys had more rights and opportunities to speak out for improvement and justice.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 02:34 PM

After all every worker unionised means more funds for the Labour [sic] Party. What organisation worth it's salt would turn it's back on more income? I mean anybody that would accept a donation from Bernie Ecclestone when a ban on smoking advertising was in the wind, wouldn't baulk at the money from someone who is a member of an organisation because he/she has to be, rather than wants to be.
No I'm not against trade unions, but I am against hypocrisy, which habit appears to be the besetting sin of all governments, but more so the present occupiers of the government benches.
G

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: sapper82
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 02:10 PM

Ruth, you really must take off those Socialist blinkers and actually read what people write.
A quote from an earlier post:-
"As a Tory I strongly believe in the right of free association and as such not only accept, but fully support the right to belong to a Trade Union. But equally, I also strongly believe that membership MUST be voluntary and not coerced as it was in so many industries during the '70s."

So obviously, if an employer were so crass as to sack anyone simply for union membership, then I would hope he gets taken to the cleaners via the Industrial Tribunal for unfair dismissal.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: sapper82
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 01:51 PM

Taken from another site:-

"Over the succeeding days they were joined by others until by the end of August there were 137 strikers out of a workforce of around 480. The strikers duly formed their own Grunwick Strike Committee (GSC) and announced that they would not return to work unless and until Grunwick recognised their newly adopted trade union. In response George Ward declared that the strikers should consider themselves dismissed and simply hired some more workers."

So when did 137 out of 480 become a majority?

The problem is that, because the Left suffered a well deserved defeat at Grunwick, ANYONE concerned with the other side must be demonisedand made to appear sub-human if possible. I think Richards ealier hyperbole about the fascists opposing the unions says it all.

However, when one does consider the true fascists like Franco's Spain as well as Nazi Germany and the failed Socialist state of the USSR, it does make me wonder what the difference is between them.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 01:42 PM

I'm still waiting to hear from Sapper what he thinks of employers who actively discourage union membership (as in, if you want a job, you'd better not joing the union). There are a lot more of these about than there are unions "intimidating" employees into membership.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: autolycus
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 01:38 PM

'Giok', as well as the bile, there are some arguments here, too.

I answered a questiion of Sapper's, enlarged on why working people just aren't going to do anything, explained their attitude at length with no hatred, just sadness.

The consequence? Whay I usually find when one makes decent, level, maybe unanswerable points outside normal agendas - nothing.

I usually find if you make difficult points, a standard "response" is to ignore totally.

As us therapists think, ah, not ready to hear that yet.

See, no hatred. Not even needed. Just a load of waiting.


   Ivor

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: sapper82
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 01:33 PM

The majority of workers Richard? What was it, about 180 on strike out of a workforce of nearly 500? Oh, but I forget. non-Socialist do not count and their opinions are to be ignored!

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 01:27 PM

there may be a couple that have packed it in, leveller, but in Leicestershire/Rutland/Northants, the strongest hunting counties, they've all carried on.

Some hunts have bought birds such as Golden Eagles and didn't know how to handle them, and flew them during the hunt - only to watch the bird be torn to pieces by the hounds, along with the fox.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 01:21 PM

Wrong, sapper (again!). I know a couple of hunts round us that have packed in. Hooray! I've nothing against dogs catching things you can eat on a one-to-one basis, especally the local nob's pheasants (oh, alright, poaching - don't do it myself, of course!!!!!) but I just hate 'the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable'.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: sapper82
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 01:14 PM

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: Ruth Archer - PM
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 12:52 PM

"Richard, I share your concern. The tory b*****ds will probably legalise fox hunting again, as well."

They don't need to. Every hunt in this country is carrying on as normal because of a loophole in the (completely useless) legisation which means that as long as they have a bird of prey with them (and the bird does not even need to be flown), the hunt is legal.

Good. Well done the hunters!!

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 01:09 PM

Gosh what a lot of bile and hatred there is in this thread!
Why do so many idealists live in the past? All busy blaming those that went before, and not one new idea amongst the lot of you.
Yes we've all suffered under various hues of political leaders, and we will do again, we are doing so NOW, and big time too. However none of them were ALL bad, and certainly none of them were ALL good.
What you gain on the swings, you lose on the roundabouts, it can't be all swings, or all roundabouts.
As for all the hot air that has been wasted on fox hunting, well! Why on earth does this silly pastime attract such energy and bile from people? If half that energy was put into something constructive, the world would be a better place.
You may as well save your breath to cool your coffee folks, only unless and until we come up with a better form of government than we have now, will anything change.
More to the point encouraging people to have less children, at least that would reduce the drain on this world's finite resources.

G.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: GUEST,Appaloosa Lady
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 12:55 PM

"Appaloosa Lady - love a conservative, get fucked by a Cecil Parkinson clone."


Richard, who's 'loving' anyone on here?

All I see coming from you is hatred.

When I listened to John Tams talking about the Miner's Strike, all I heard was sorrow, a deep compassion and a strong determination within him to explain the terrible hurt that was caused to so many. But John teaches through gentleness and intelligence, not anger and hatred all the time.

It's time to move on. The Militant Left, to me, is as bad as the Militant Right.

It is time for a Militant Middle, one that no longer sees 'class', but people. One that has no 'side' but is purely interested in this country and her people...and whose Militancy is purely channelled into a determination to keep hatred far away from this country. We've had way too much of it for over two decades.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 12:52 PM

"Richard, I share your concern. The tory b*****ds will probably legalise fox hunting again, as well."

They don't need to. Every hunt in this country is carrying on as normal because of a loophole in the (completely useless) legisation which means that as long as they have a bird of prey with them (and the bird does not even need to be flown), the hunt is legal.

Sapper, what about the employers who actively discourage union membership?

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 12:49 PM

I know Wikipedia is not always right but this seems reasonable

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 12:45 PM

No, Sapper. The Grunwick management refused to recognise the union. It wanted to keep wages down and discriminate against union members. The workers who wanted to go in were not in the majority, and those who did want to go in did so because of wage slavery. Where were you when it happened? Writing the right-wing propaganda, or reading the Sun? Grunwick was an indefensible example of union-bashing.

Appaloosa Lady - love a conservative, get fucked by a Cecil Parkinson clone.

Aux barricades! It is surely time.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: GUEST,Appaloosa Lady
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 12:28 PM

"Weep, England, weep."

England has been weeping for way too long. The United Kingdom has too, or the Disunited Kingdom, as it now is. The hatred that has been raging through this country for over 20 years now, needs to be turned into something far more positive.

We've *done* the hatred.

Why don't we now start to try love instead?

Not only that, but whey don't we all stop bleating about our politicians, and simply recognise, albeit with great sorrow, that they're mostly a bunch of completely selfish bastards, no matter which 'team' they are in...and start to demand honour from those who seek to lead us?

We should have been out on the streets years ago.

I recall a few years back, hearing an interview with a French journalist. She lived over here at the time, and she was dumbstruck at how much we 'put up with' over here. She said that in France the feeling is very different. They elect their politicians to lead their country, to do the best they can for their country, and if they don't, then the French people take to the streets in protest.

I think we have a great deal to learn from that.

Way past time to stop wailing "It's all Maggie's fault!" or "Bloody Blair!"

It is *our* country and we are its Keepers and Protectors...

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: sapper82
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 10:20 AM

At Grunwick only about 1/3 of the workforce went on strike. Should the other 2/3 have been forced to join a union to satisfy that minority?
Did the strikers have the right to prevent the 2/3 who wanted to work from doing so?
If only 1/3 of the workforce were on strike, were the conditions REALLY that bad, or is it yet more Left Wing rhetoric and propaganda?

Why do you get the impression that I believe workers should be kept in poverty and should not be allowed to form unions? As a Tory I strongly believe in the right of free association and as such not only accept, but fully support the right to belong to a Trade Union. But equally, I also strongly believe that membership MUST be voluntary and not coerced as it was in so many industries during the '70s.

I also believe that, during an industrial dispute, those who wish to take strike action should be free to do so. However, this must also be ballanced by allowing those who wish to work and ignore the dispute to go to work without fear of intimidation or violence.

Do you disagree with that right?

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 08:10 AM

Sapper, you want to read some history if you think that was Grunwick. A bunch of fascists opressing Asian women.

Look at the injury rate in building work now.

If workers are going to get fair wages and conditions, they must have the powers to balance those of the bosses. The problem with the shift in the Phillips curve (presumably, as a keen economist you do know about it?) in the 70s was that both sides could only ratchet up.

Is there any reason workers should not be fairly paid? It seems to be one of your central tenets that they should be kept in poverty and follow orders. Since they are human beings I cannot go along with that. There is no justice in the disparity in wealth that we see today. The only defence is strong (but fair, and by and large they are fairer than capitalists) unions.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: sapper82
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 07:49 AM

Bryn, I do not doubt your sincerity and do have some respect for it, but at the time of your political activism, what was your opinion and that of your compatriots, of the USSR and Communist China under Chairman Mao?

Some of my abiding memories of that period were the number of Left Wing activists who were so fond of quoting the works of Mao whilst trying to overthrow Western Democracy. Was it at the LSE or North London Polytechnic where a student claimed on TV that she had no need for further study as she had studied the Thoughts of Mao Tse Tung and thus knew the truth?

It never ceases to amaze me that intelligent and compassionate people were so taken in by the Communist system, even after the truth became known about the oppression in the USSR during the time of Stalin. Even after the illegal crushing of the Hungarian uprising in '56 and the suppression of the Prague Spring in '68.

At the time your compatriots in the Left were lauding Mao and subscribing to his personality cult, his Government had already instigated the first Tiananmen Square massacre and were still slaughtering their opponents as the Cultural Revolution dragged on towards it's close.

Maggie may be criticised as the person who unleashed a huge tide of personal greed on the UK, but one only needs to look back 10 years beyond her, to the Snouts in the Trough attitude of the Donkey Jacket Trades Unionism then prevelant to see the falsity of such accusations.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: sapper82
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 07:30 AM

Oh dear Richard! Such a well worn old cliche.
However, my time in the Army left me with several qualities, amongst which is a willingness not only to put forward my own point of view, but to allow others to do the same.

So, which of the picket lines would you have been on?
The Builder's Strike, where Trade Union thugs, including a former NF thug called Ricky Tomlinson, tried to impose compulsory union membership onto an unwilling workforce by the use of violence and intimidation?

The same was attempted at Grunwick where the majority of workers in a small company, who did not wish to become union members, were terrorised by more socialist thugs in an effort to force a Closed Shop onto them.

Mrs. Thatcher's one overwhelming sin, so far as the Left is concerned, is that she, for a short time at least, turned back the tide of creaping Socialism, delaying it long enough for the empty shell that was the Worker's Paradise of the USSR to collapse under the weight of it's own beaurocracy, and thus show that Socialism is still the empty promise it always was.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 05:12 AM

Iam with Richard, here, and not just because I am a fellow lawyer.

I was on the picket lines :

Clay Cross rent strike ; Tower Hamlets rent strike ; Minrers' strike 72, 73, 74 ; antiNF rally, Hyde, 1975 -

(where we learnt to fight back - cricket boxes protected lads' nuts ; fencing protectors protected lasses' breasts ; wellies were stuffed with newspaper against back-heels from bogies ; and hat-pins dipped in dogshit retaliated. Oh, and Anderton nearly got his head kicked in cos he was in civvies.)

Grunwick picket line, 1978.

The Romans did it (social control) with free bread and free circuses.

This lot do it with unlimited football ; unlimited Corrie ; unlimited ale and unlimited nookie.

Weep, England, weep.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 04:54 AM

Little Big Horn was one they won. Custer's Last Stand and all that.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 04:17 AM

I know nothing of British politics except Blair was a smooth talker and that he liked George Bush alot.

autolycus - Are you talking about the uneducated masses? They've been around a long time and they have been known to rise up when living conditions are so dismal that they have to take action.

After reading this thread, it sounds as if there is little or no hope in Britain.

Maybe you'll get lucky and a charismatic, woman of colour will appear on the political scene and win the heart of a nation.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: autolycus
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 02:33 AM

Because workingg-class people, in voting Conservative, are voting against their own interests.

Nor apathy, Apaloosa, but fear, ignorance, impotence, masochism


   Ivor

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 11:12 PM

Wasn't it Crazy Horse who rode into the trap at the battle of little Big Horn? Not such a good plan.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: GUEST,Appaloosa Lady
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 07:42 PM

This country needs John Tams in charge of it!

And, her people need to look to Crazy Horse, for some wisdom in how to love their land.

Get rid of ALL politicians and put it in the hands of people who care. However, the people have to demand that first. Apathy has brought us to this sorry state, both here and in the US, and until we raise our heads up and start to find our voices once more, we ain't going nowhere.

"ALL IT TAKES FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING"

We've all been doing nothing for way too long and look what has happened.


'The Return of Crazy Horse' by Dan Britton

"We need leaders, not self-serving fools
Hanging out with rock stars to make them look cool
They're dealers, just shadows of men
Bringing down bad karma, again and again

"We need leaders, people to trust
Someone to look to who cares about us
We need healers, the medicine men
It's too late for 'if', it's got to be 'when'

"Lily-livered goons, red necked baffoons
Masquerading as leaders of men
They'll be swept aside
Nowhere left to hide
When Crazy Horse rides again
When Crazy Horse rides again

"We need leaders not jobs for the boys
Playing war games like a kid with his toys
They're feeders with vampire eyes
Attracting others like shit attract flies


"Lily-livered goons, red necked baffoons
Masquerading as leaders of men
They'll be swept aside
Nowhere left to hide
When Crazy Horse rides again
When Crazy Horse rides again

The Return of Crazy Horse

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 07:14 PM

Rule from the barrel of a gun, Sapper?

I'm old enough that when I qualified I was asked to tea at the Law SOciety to see if I had the necessary personal qualities to be a solicitor.

Why do you want to be a solicitor?"

If you answered "Because I want to be a filthy rich bastard" you were not enrolled.


Now tell me, why, oh Sapper, did you want to join the army, to travel overseas, to meet fascinatingly different foreign people of varied and colourful cultures
(roll down)



















And kill them?


Befehl ist befehl seems to be your motto.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: sapper82
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 04:23 PM

And why shouldn't a member of the working class support the conservatives?
Despite the delusion of the Socialist movement, the Labour party has most certainly NEVER been the party of the working class! all it has been is the party of a self appointed middle class elite riding on the backs of the working class.
And why am I a Conservative supporter? The '70s. When the UK was nearly brought to it's knees by bloody minded Donkey Jacket Trades Unionism and incompetant Socialist government.
At least, thanks to Mrs Thatcher, we only have the current incompetant Socialist Government to put up with and not the Donkey Jackets!

Richard, for one so concerned with "justice," your wish to have prevented workers from legally going to work seems rather strange. Did you really want to overthrow a legally elected government? Or perhaps you believe that such a legally elected government should have rolled over and died in the face of a viscious attempt to impose "Socialism" on the majority of the population who had voted against it?
I never ceases to amaze me how many embittered and frustrated Socialists, knowing that they will never get their way by fair democratic means, would have supported, and would probably still support a violent revolution in this country, despite the plain lessons of history vis a vis the USSR and communist China.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 04:10 PM

I'm not sure social justice is on the agenda of any of the political parties at the moment. Maybe it's an impossible goal but that's no reason not to keep striving towards it and I'm damn sure that the only parties who are further away from that goal are the BNP and UKIP.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: sapper82
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 04:02 PM

A lawyer knowing about justice? There is a strange thing!

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: autolycus
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 02:27 PM

An interesting take on what might happen if a socialist government were elected is in Chris Mullin (now M.P.)'s novel A Very British Coup.

People say a champagne socialist is an absurdity; I think just as absurd, tho I know a few, are working-class tories. They are poor and still think Thatch was wonderful.

Lots of w-c. tories are like those privates with a field mardhall's baton in their knapsacks. certainly I've been unwilling to represent working people vis-a-vis management at work because half of them are on managements' side.

The working-class are brought in conditions of severity and punishment, just the stuff to give the troops to encourage their conservatism. And many of them wouldn't say boo to a goose, never mind the supervisor, the boss, the rich, the Queen. They prefer to live on their knees and just complain.

They also have no problem never hearing about stuff that would shake their conservatism. Tell them about tax evasion, the size of the profits made by major corporations, how long it takes Bill gates to earn what takes them all year (i.e., the time it takes to drop a piece of paper and pick it up again), the size of city bonuses - note, not salaries, bonuses, how society works, and such like, and their eyes/brains glaze over. Too frightening (?) to even think about.

An insight into why people imprison themselves thusly is Listen, Little Man! by Wilhelm Reich.


I don't know why tories get so exercised by it all. Maybe they're easily frightened. maybe they're control freaks. maybe they never do anything for the first time.(One definition of a conservative). I don't see they have much to worry them; there's not going to be anything drastic done here.


    Ivor

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 02:19 PM

Yes, evil dictator. I wasn't on the picket lines, but now in my heart I know I should have been. As a lawyer for 30 years I know when justice is not on the government's agenda.

If you think there is much socialism in New Labour, it is you who need a reality check. But the only thing worse than the conservative bastards back again would be the BNP or National Front (who largely are illiterate as well as evil).

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: sapper82
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 01:55 PM

Evil dicator Richard? Using hyperbole like that I wonder if you are in the real world.
As for new Labour being Tory, no, they are not. They have simply tried to give Socialism an acceptable face and failed miserably.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: kendall
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 08:55 AM

"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works in any country."

             Hermann Goering

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: kendall
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 08:44 AM

A dear friend of mine once described the political fiasco as: Bread and Circuses. As long as the people have both, they have no need to think or act.

In this country, we have the same problem. Celebrity worship. Never mind the issues...attack the other guy. If he/she has no skeletons in his/her closet, invent one! Do or say anything to get elected.
In my opinion, Dennis Kucinich would have been the best president, but he didn't get to first base. Why? he is short and could use a charisma transplant.Hillary has name recognition, and little else. Obama is an unknown, possibly an empty suit who speaks well. But, so does Tony Bliar.

Most of us wait until the choice is down to two, and by then it's just too damn late, and there is no real choice.
We should get involved from the start and support the candidate that would be the best suited for the job, not the one with the most money!
Someone said we get the kind of government we deserve. Right on brother, right on.Pissing and moaning after the deed is done has never changed anything.
Hermann Goering was right.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 06:55 AM

Interesting!
G

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 06:24 AM

Reasons for preferring the present Labour Party over the Tories are getting fewer and fewer.

It's still possible to argue that the Labour Party out in the country is often a lot nicer than the Front Bench, and that the Tory Party is often a lot nastier than its Front Bench. But the possibility of the decent parts of the Labour Party taking back control are probably even slimmer while they stay in power than if they get chucked out.

The best hope may be that a hung parliament results in electoral reform that will enable a new party lineup to develop, so we can vote the way we prefer, rather than just trying to keep out whichever bunch of politicians looks the most unpleasant.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 05:03 AM

We've had the Tories in power since 1979. We thought we had kicked them out in 1997, but all we got was a different set of Tories. I can't see that changing whoever gets elected.

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: GRex
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 04:23 AM

I do hope that we can keep the Tories out of power.
I'm in my eighties and the only times in my lifetime that the Tories have been 'pro Joe Public' is when they were in opposition. Not that I consider the New Labour to be much better.

         GRex

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 04:18 AM

Richard, I share your concern. The tory b*****ds will probably legalise fox hunting again, as well.Problem is, As the Oysterband song says, "whoever you vote for, the government gets in".

Subject: RE: UK betrayed too.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 03:59 AM

Damn, sorry, that should have been BS. Can an elf please move it?

Subject: UK betrayed too.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 03:58 AM

On another thread Peace makes a good point that this election in the USA is a defining one for the USA. If it cannot at this stage rout the forces oppression that have ruled with lies and self-interest for so long it may well never be free again.

Unfortunately it seems something similar may threaten the UK. The conservatives now have an opinion poll lead over Labour larger than any since the conservative landslide that put the evil dictator Thatcher in power. I had hoped and believed that the Thatcher experience would for ever make the conservatives unelectable in the UK, but it seems it is not so.

Cameron, alas, seems set to out-Bliar the bullshitting Bliar, and worm his way into acceptablity with cosy belief utterances that deceive by vagueness and image.

Cry, England. If the bastards can recover so soon from the wilderness, never again will you have a national health service, a national transport infrastructure, a welfare state. Everything we have valued will be sold to the highest bidder and run into the ground in the name of profit, or priced so that only the rich can afford it.

It is time, again, for that petrol emotion.