Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media

Subject: Shirley Collins in The Guardian
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 07:00 AM

full page feature on Shirley Collins in The Guardian, Friday 21 March, plus front page photo in the Film and Music section.
Derek Schofield

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 08:07 AM

Cheers Derek. I love Shirley. A lot of my fellow ITM aficionados don't get it. I'm off to get my copy.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 10:01 AM

The front page states 'How Shirley Collins changed music', having read the article I still don't know.

Anybody care to enlighten me.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian
From: GUEST,AR
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 10:07 AM

Well, she didn't not change it.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian
From: GUEST,Bill the Collie
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 10:11 AM

yon Lomax - a right basterd, eh?

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 10:57 AM

Read the story at the Guardian.co.uk:

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/filmandmusic/story/0,,2266777,00.html

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian
From: GUEST,Nigel Spencer
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 01:11 PM

She's getting about... there's a big interview in this month's Mojo too. One of my favourite singers.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian
From: GUEST,Nigel Spencer
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 01:23 PM

Here's a link to the Guardian article:
Shirley

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian
From: GUEST,Nigel Spencer
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 01:25 PM

No, here's a link to the Guardian article:


Shirley

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 02:14 PM

Thanks for the link, Nigel. I had NO IDEA she suffered from dysphonia*! What a shock. And what a loss.

... * a condition linked to psychological trauma that stops the voice working properly... Collins gave up singing completely, and turned her hand to normal jobs, including running a branch of Oxfam. She has recorded nothing since, because she is worried her voice isn't reliable enough to convey the folk songs properly.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 03:15 PM

The same thing happened to Linda Thompson! Something in the water over there?

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian
From: GUEST,IS
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 03:24 PM

When the True Love Knot breaks, everything else does too.

Subject: Shirley Collins
From: Vic Smith
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 03:59 PM

The media seems to have its full attention on SHIRLEY COLLINS at the moment. Yesterday, there was a long feature on America Over The Water on the highly prestigious "Today" programme on BBC Radio 4. If you did not hear that at the time, you can listen to it on the BBC's "Listen Again" facility by clicking here

Then today there's a cover photo and a 2 page- article by Jude Rogers in today's Guardian Music & Film supplement This has already been mentioned in another thread but you can read by clicking here

Next Tuesday, March 25th, 11.30am, BBC Radio 4. there's a programme with Shirley entitled Love, Death and the Lady


.... and of course, on that day the days of celebration of Shirley's career starts at The South Bank in London. The full details of all the concerts and talks are as follows:-
TUESDAY 25 MARCH
MARTIN SIMPSON WITH SPECIAL GUEST CHRIS WOOD
Two of England's finest interpreters of traditional and contemporary music.
Queen Elizabeth Hall 7.45pm

FRIDAY 28 MARCH
ALASDAIR ROBERTS
The Scotland-based folk singer and guitarist performs songs from his new album The Amber Gatherers.
Purcell Room at Queen Elizabeth Hall 7.45pm

SATURDAY 29 MARCH
SOUNDS OF THE SOUTH:
A COLLECTION OF ILLUSTRATED TALKS WITH SHIRLEY COLLINS and Pip Barnes

    ROMANY RAI
    Gypsy songs and singers of Southern England. An original and beguiling performance with readings, illustrated with recorded music and pictures.
    Purcell Room at Queen Elizabeth Hall 2pm

    A MOST SUNSHINY DAY
    A passionate and timely look at the traditional songs and singers of Sussex, illustrated with recorded music, pictures and dance.
    Purcell Room at Queen Elizabeth Hall 4.30pm

AMERICA OVER THE WATER
    Shirley Collins presents an enthralling and unique show based on her book America Over the Water, with readings, field recordings and rare pictures.
    Purcell Room at Queen Elizabeth Hall 8pm

SUNDAY 30 MARCH
CATHERINE BOTT
SWEET IS THE SONG - A woman's life and loves in song   

As a tribute to her friend Shirley Collins, soprano Catherine Bott performs medieval French love songs from her acclaimed album "Sweet is the Song" and traditional English songs in the much-loved arrangements by Dolly Collins.
Shirley joins Catherine on stage to co-present the recital.

"Dolly's stately and tender arrangement was wonderful to sing to. As with so many of her settings, her music simply gathered me up and gave me a perfect launch into the song."
(Shirley Collins, 2006)

"Shirley and Dolly got there first"
(BBC, 2003)

"Sensual and smooth on the surface, Catherine Bott's vocalism also digs into the text with a rare commitment worthy of spoken theatre. Rather than merely singing a few old songs, she brings an entire medieval world to life."
(review of Catherine Bott's album Convivencia, Gramophone Magazine, February 2007,)

"…an emotional immediacy that will catch the breath in your throat."
(Convivencia review, London Evening Standard, November 2006)

Purcell Room at Queen Elizabeth Hall 5.30pm

CLOSE OF PLAY
Featuring Rattle On The Stove Pipe, Linda Thompson, Lisa Knapp, Martyn Wyndham-Read with No-Man's Band, John Kirkpatrick, Brighton Morris, Hot Vultures 3 and Ned Oldham.
Queen Elizabeth Hall 7.30pm

....And I can tell you that a great deal of work has gone into improving and polishing the three talks on Saturday. Hope to see a lot of you there! You see more details of these events and book on-line by clicking here

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 04:56 AM

Thanks for the link Nigel - will read the article later and see if it does anything to change my mind about her singing.
Always found her too milk-and-water for my taste.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: GUEST,the button
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 09:08 AM

I'm off to the Chris Wood/Martin Simpson on Tuesday.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: GUEST,The Mole catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 11:24 AM

"The same thing happened to Linda Thompson! Something in the water over there"

stress is a major factor in dysphonia, stage fright can also be, on occasion, attributed to it.

Charlotte (the mid Easter view from ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 11:43 AM

"Well, she didn't not change it."

Listen to Folk Roots, New Routes in context with the music that was being played and released at the time of the album's initial release in 1964

Charlotte (the view from ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: Folknacious
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 01:46 PM

Michaelr said: "The same thing happened to Linda Thompson! Something in the water over there?"
If there was, it was the about-to-be-ex-husbands who were drinking it. Personally I'd rather Shirley had been able to keep on singing than hear anything A. Hutchings did after that point. Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be a bloke.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 02:03 PM

In other words, it was from the emotional trauma and pain of marriage break-ups. But I had not realised that it has silenced Shirley ever since. What's it been, 30 years? I don't remember ever hearing her complain or moan about it, though I'm not privy to local news in her area. In any case, what a lady she is. I'm glad to see all the info in Vic's post.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 02:24 PM

"If there was, it was the about-to-be-ex-husbands who were drinking it. Personally I'd rather Shirley had been able to keep on singing than hear anything A. Hutchings did after that point. Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be a bloke."

What absolute bollocks!

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: Folknacious
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 02:36 PM

"What absolute bollocks!"
Which bit?

"I don't remember ever hearing her complain or moan about it"
Shirley has detailed the way that Hutchings, her then husband, publicly flaunted his affair with a National Theatre actress while one of the Albion lineups was working there with Shirley as the singer, at the same time as quite nastily putting down her singing abilities. This apparently triggered her singing confidence problem, from which she's never managed to recover. It certainly came up in an interview in one of the folk mags years ago, and in the book that accompanies the box set of her CDs.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: GUEST,The Mole catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 02:48 PM

well. well. the thread has degenerated into the News of the World style of posting. I believe the original idea was to simply announce the fact that there is a (very interesting)article and interview with Shirley Collins, not resurrecting the old chestnut about the reasons for the loss of Shirley Collins's voice, and Linda T. is appearing in the Close Of Play section of The Celebration, but not to regale us with the already well known circumstances of her marriage break up (though it should be noted she still uses her ex-husband's name professionally).


Also, while we're at it..I've suffered from dysphonia and I'm still married

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 05:36 AM

The Guardian article is like other Guardian articles about folk. It doesn't really give any idea of what the music that Shirley helped to promote was actually like. This may not be an easy task but surely not impossible.

I enjoyed No Roses best, Shirley Collins and the Albion Band, excellent Folk Rock - traditional songs played using electric guitars, drums, melodeons and fiddles etc. I think. Not at all typical of what she did but neither was Folk Roots - New Routes.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 05:54 AM

Very good point, Les. My beloved favourites are the albums she did with her sister Dolly, particularly Anthems In Eden and Love, Death & The Lady.

Shirley's website is a great place to get better acquainted with her work, for those who may not be familiar with it. Clicking on the record titles will give the track listings, other musicians (which reads like a Who's Who of folk/early music) etc.; plus a whole lot more.

http://www.shirleycollins.co.uk/

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 09:31 AM

A wonderful collection of some of Shirley and Dolly's finest, called "Fountain of Snow," was released in 1992. Well worth tracking down, though it doesn't seem to be available any more. That, with "Anthems in Eden," is my favourite. I need to put 25 minutes aside to play "Anthems" so that I can listen properly.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 10:35 AM

I wonder if these people might be able to supply Fountain Of Snow - Shirley's website says to try them for all CDs she's not selling from her site, from March 2008 onwards:

http://www.thebeesknees.com/

Album details are on her website anyway:

http://www.shirleycollins.co.uk/fountain.htm

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: Nerd
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 12:19 PM

In the article, the writer says that Shirley's book first ended with a snippy comment aimed at Lomax, but that she changed it for the paperback version. But I have the hardcover, and it ends with the new, softer ending.

Does anyone have the original, said to end "That's not how I remember it!" I'm wondering if the writer got that story straight.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 01:18 PM

It's quoted in that Guardian article (link above), so presumably it came from Shirley herself - though these two paragraphs are not consecutive:

Collins sighs at the memory [of the publication of Alan Lomax's history of blues music, The Land Where the Blues Began]. "Alan sent a copy to me with a fulsome dedication written inside it by hand, but in the book itself I was brushed aside. All it said was, 'Shirley Collins was along for the trip.' It made me hopping mad. I wasn't just 'along for the trip'. I was part of the recording process, I made notes, I drafted contracts, I was involved in every part."

So Collins did the only thing she could: she started writing her own version. Her memoir, America Over the Water, was published in 2004 and it finished with the words: "Shirley Collins was there for the trip? Well that's not how I saw it."

[. . .]

Collins kept in touch sporadically with Lomax, but they only met once again, in Brighton in the early 90s. As ever, she says, there was great affection between them, but they argued about Collins' career. It was only after his death in 2002 that Collins properly forgave him.

The final straw was seeing him, debilitated by a brain haemorrhage and unable to speak, in the documentary film Lomax the Songhunter. "To see Alan at the end of that film, in the swimming pool ..." Collins' eyes glisten at the memory. "The light that came in his eyes really broke my heart. I thought, God, I can't end this on a sour note." In the absence of Lomax to speak to, she did the only thing she could: changed the last line of her book. The 2006 paperback edition now finishes with an Appalachian folk song that begins with the words: "But when you're on some distant shore/Think on your absent friend."

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: Nerd
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 02:54 PM

Thanks, Bonnie. But the bits that are truly important to my question, which are:

Her memoir, America Over the Water, was published in 2004 and it finished with the words: "Shirley Collins was there for the trip? Well that's not how I saw it."

and

In the absence of Lomax to speak to, she did the only thing she could: changed the last line of her book. The 2006 paperback edition now finishes with an Appalachian folk song that begins with the words: "But when you're on some distant shore/Think on your absent friend."

are not direct quotes from Shirley at all. Certainly, it's likely that Shirley originally ended the book with the somewhat snippy line, then changed it. When and how she changed it (before publication or between editions) is not quoted from Shirley, but phrased in the writer's own words.

I have written many, many such articles myself, and occasionally I have inserted something that turned out to be wrong in place of real facts, because the taped interview had simply missed capturing the subject's own words on the point in question. (It's embarrassing, but one gets over it and is forgiven.)

So, I'm wondering if the writer is correct, because my copy of the hardcover suggests otherwise. The hardcover itself makes no mention of a previous edition, nor does the publisher's website.

So I'm just asking catters in general...does anyone have the version that ends "Well that's not how I saw it"? I'm just interested to know if there is a previous edition to the one I have.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: peregrina
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 03:06 PM

I have the first (2004) hardcover edition.

The final sentence is--copied exactly minus italics but including open quotation mark with no close-quote and typo:

"Along for the trip? That's not how I remenber (sic) it. So I started to write this book.

Anyone else in this thread seen the Lomax songhunter movie? Fascinating for the songs and the way the makers retraced Lomax's source-singers; I I can see why it provoked Collins' change of approach. The scenes of Lomax at home with his daughter after his stroke, a huge man but barely able to do much, with recordings of his powerful singing when he was young playing in the background were just heart-wrenching.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: GUEST,Nerd
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 05:32 PM

Interesting, thanks, peregrina. It's a shame that the publisher has reprinted without acknowledging that this is a revised second edition. That kind of thing drives the Librarians where I work mad!

I have seen the Songhunter movie. Yes, it was very touching.

I know Anna (the daughter) personally, and find her to be very brave and forthright in the way she deals with the past--but she doesn't allow people to get away with gratuitously trashing Alan, either. I'm sure she appreciated Shirley's good-hearted forgiveness, and the change in the book.

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 03:33 AM

Shirley Collins'lecture about the 1959 American recording journey, based on the book, in Bakewell, Derbyshire last Saturday night. Stunning. A wonderful woman, an enthralling talk. Does anything of that America still exist, post Civil Rights?

Subject: RE: Shirley Collins in The Guardian & other media
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 11:08 AM

A couple of years ago I had the honour to MC Shirley when she presented both America over the water & A bright sunshiny day at the Fylde Folk Festival. Now here I must admit I am biased, I fell madly in love with Shirley on the occasion I first saw her [its O.K. my wife understands!], but these two 'presentations'were magnificent, she got a standing ovation that lasted 5 mins. She is, to me at least, the Voice of [Southern] England.