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BS: The next Vice President?
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Subject: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 05 Apr 08 - 09:01 PM I heard him mentioned as a good choice for Obama on Meet the Press. I found this interview on YouTube. He speaks very well and is obviously an expert in National Security. Gen. Anthony Zinni The interview is about half way through. It seems that Obama has red his book! He is certainly using his ideas in his campaign. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 05 Apr 08 - 09:46 PM Zinni and Tom Clancy |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 05 Apr 08 - 11:21 PM What a speech! Maybe this guy should be President! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: mg Date: 05 Apr 08 - 11:27 PM I loved Gov. Granholm but now I am not sure because of her possible ties to Michigan screwup..I ;just don't know but she was impressive on TV..anyway, she was born in Canada. BUt I would love to see JOhn Edwards as attorney general, Gen. Honore for something..homeland security perhaps...perhaps Maria Cantwell for something...maybe even VP...she works hard I know... Education -- anyone who would insist on vocational/occupational education for all students, and let some out if they squeal too much I guess and threaten lawsuits..but have it be default..and who is willing to crack the biggest barrier to education, which is students ostracizing and threatening even other students who dare to work reasonably hard in school. Have truant officers, have various specialists in schools to help with obstacles, have even barren dormitories for students who have either abusive housing or none at all..barren because you don't want them to leave otherwise reasonable homes, just abusive ones, or ones where they can't afford to feed them, or ones whre they can't keep them from running the streets...Much more emphasis on community college education. Figure out what job categories are needed in communities, even if there are no actual jobs..just the talents distributed among communities is important..nursing, electricians, mechanics, carpenters, day care specialists, energy specialists etc. Give students willing to work in those areas free education. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Peace Date: 05 Apr 08 - 11:34 PM I am listening to the last link now. Hell, Jack, I love the guy. No bullshit from him. No political posturing, no 'talk around the subject'. ("I've got something to say, sir, and I'm gonna say it now.") He's the kind of leader that gets produced by the military at times. (Recall Lewis MacKenzie and Romeo Dallaire.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Riginslinger Date: 06 Apr 08 - 12:41 AM I wonder if he'll come out with a VP pick prior to Hillary winning the nomination? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:11 AM >>From: Riginslinger Date: 06 Apr 08 - 12:41 AM I wonder if he'll come out with a VP pick prior to Hillary winning the nomination?<< Word to the wise... experimenting with hallucinogenic drugs can be dangerous. Watch yourself OK? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:14 AM Another brilliant interview. He makes a perfect case for firing Rummy, seven months before it finally happened. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:16 AM Think about the possibility of people like this in the cabinet gives me hope for the future. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Barry Finn Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:45 AM I'm getting awful tired of military types, those that think they're military types, those that wannbe's military types & those that are CIA types, FBI types (thank God Hoover never ran), NSA types & etc. Can we please have someone who's had a history from a peaceful background, please. What on God's good Earth makes a canidate schooled in the arts of war, espionage, secrecy, torture, stealth, aggression, blood letting & shedding, those schooled in the use of fear tactics as a global & domestic policy, the "we can go it alone" model, the "if you ain't with us you're against us" types. Haven't we had enough of these types already? There is a time & place for a military person. The time's not now, when so many lurk for a bloody opportunity & the place for them at present is caged up so that we don't let them lose on the rest of society. Bad enough that we let our own rabid dog continuously bite US on the ass, no reason to sic 'em on those that we fear & hate, cause we've already had the dog bite those that we loved & respected. Isn't the department of defense a place to reward good intellegant Generals & Admirals or a home in some corner of the Pent-a/go-ne? We want intellegence in the White House not some one from intellegence. I give up, when some one born & bred for a fight, looking a bit like a pit bull & they start looking like a poster child for peace on earth it's time for me disconnect, get a boat & start looking for a new race. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Guest Date: 06 Apr 08 - 08:24 AM Couldn't agree more, Barry. The very idea this guy would be a great VP choice for either candidate, just shows how invested in the status quo the supporters of Clinton and Obama truly are, and how neither will bring the changes voters claim they want. Odd isn't it, how voters say they want change, and then turn around and vote for status quo candidates? For insight, see 'Politics quotations' thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Bobert Date: 06 Apr 08 - 08:32 AM Anthony Zinni would make a great choice, Jack... He could counter McWar's military experience and bolster Obama's lack there of... I'm still a Richardson fan myself because I believe that Richardson not only shores up Obama's lack of foriegen policy experience but also can deleiver a couple three states, to boot... But I'd take either... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Riginslinger Date: 06 Apr 08 - 10:42 AM My guess is, if something should go horribly wrong, and Obama does end up with the nomination, McCain would be tickled pink--and he's kind of pink already--to see Obama pick Richardson as a running mate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Bobert Date: 06 Apr 08 - 10:46 AM Explain yer reasonin', Rigs, ol' buddy, onm Richardson... As fir Zinni bein' a status qu'er, GG. explain yer reasoning as well, por favor... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 06 Apr 08 - 10:48 AM Barry, Mr. Bush has left our military some tremendous problems. It would be folly not to call on the expertise of those who warned against the pitfalls of the war. The change I am supporting is cleaning up the mess in Iraq and getting Bin Laden. Zinni talks about much more than war. He talks about solving economic and political problems as a way of preventing military ones. He is an articulate expert on the Mid East. As a General, he is much more like George Marshall than George Patton. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Riginslinger Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:29 PM I have a great deal of respect for Bill Richardson. But on a ticket with Obama as the VP, I don't see how Richardson makes the ticket stronger. It might attract a certain percentage of the Hispanic voters that Obama might not otherwise get, but it doesn't add to the ticket in the areas where Obama is perceived to be weak, military and defense... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Guest Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:57 PM Your question is ridiculous, and unworthy of a serious answer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 06 Apr 08 - 08:46 PM I have become quite a Zinni fan, I've watched about ten hours of video and I have ordered one of his books. I hope he becomes vice president or at least gets into the cabinet. An Obama/Zinni ticket would go a long way toward uniting this country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Peace Date: 06 Apr 08 - 08:52 PM I think he would provide the 'foreign policy' view that maybe Obama lacks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Charley Noble Date: 06 Apr 08 - 09:00 PM Well, General Zinni is worth listening to but I'd probably nominate him for Joint Chief of Staff rather than VP. He's not going to carry a swing state or a swing group. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Bobert Date: 06 Apr 08 - 09:01 PM Tell ya what, GG... If JtS and Peace each think that Zinni would make a good VP selection then my question is not rediculous... Thes are a couple Mudcatters with proven track records... So what is your beef with Zinni??? Really... If you duck this one it will show that you are in over your head here... B! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 06 Apr 08 - 09:03 PM General Zinni is a plain spoken, working class, son of an immigrant born and raised in Pennsylvania. He can help carry Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Michigan. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 06 Apr 08 - 09:05 PM Bobert, I think she is just trying to get the most reaction from you for the least effort from her. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Riginslinger Date: 06 Apr 08 - 10:14 PM While I'm still holding out for Hillary to win, I think General Zinni would make an excellent choice of VP for Obama. He's a man with a lot of integrity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Bobert Date: 06 Apr 08 - 10:25 PM Yeah, JtS... Think that GG an' I are on some kinda collision coursr... Takes me back to the Martin Gibson days... Not to blowin' my horn here but I think I rope-a-doped him purdy good... Yeah, I might be a tad stoved up but I think the sam game plan will work on the new Martin Gibson... We'll see... One thing is fir sure... If you think Hillary is tuff, watch me... BTWm Zinni is one heck of a man... I like Richardson but if Obama were to pick Zinni I would have goose pimples.... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 06 Apr 08 - 10:45 PM Bobert, I hear ya, but she is no Martin Gibson. Yes, it is rude on her part to say a question is stupid. But she is not evil and when she is not over her head and calling other people stupid, she sometimes says sensible, intelligent things. Obviously as you implied, her refusal to answer proves that you have made your point. I am pleased that you recognize what she is doing. Carry on! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: katlaughing Date: 06 Apr 08 - 11:21 PM Barry, I hear ya! I don't want any military people in that position either. Maybe as an advisor, but not as VP. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 06 Apr 08 - 11:59 PM Kat and Barry, I understand your concern. He's a retired general not a serving one. He is now a business man for whom the Vice President's salary would be a huge cut in pay. I think that there are many many honorable and brilliant leaders in the US military. Zinni appears to be one of them, he also seems to be wise and prudent. If he had been Bush's VP, we certainly would not be in the mess we are now. This mess wasn't caused by the military. It was caused by people, Cheney and Rumsfeld, who thought they knew more about how to wage a war than the military. People stupid enough to think that the reason the US lost in Viet Nam was lack of support for the war from the American people. Whoever is the next President has a huge mess to fix. Zinni recognizes the problems and has a plan to fix them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Apr 08 - 12:09 AM zinni on the Iraq war |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Apr 08 - 07:55 AM I see boys. Kat and Barry voice the identical opinion that I have voiced, but I am Martin Gibson because...? Let's remember boys, the name calling in this forum is NEVER started by me. EVER. If you can't take it yourselves, perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to dish it out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: jacqui.c Date: 07 Apr 08 - 08:42 AM Let's remember boys, the name calling in this forum is NEVER started by me. EVER. Maybe not quite name calling, but the next thing to it. You ain't quite so squeaky clean as you like to think. Very much in the Martin Gibson mode. Subject: RE: BS: Primaries From: GUEST,Guest - PM Date: 08 Feb 08 - 09:10 AM Omigodomigod a Mudcat woman who admits to being "a little on the feminist side"? Sounds like I need to move on over to that girlfriends tweezin' twatties thread. You are looking at this lot, and trying to decide who would make the president? Well, picking any of them is easier than worrying our pretty littles heads, innit? Personally, I think we need some cozy time in our pink fuzzie jammies, drinkin Ghiardelli cocoa, and sangin some pages out of the "I've Got a Crush on Obama" songbook. And on "being white". Omigodomigod. Congrats on that home girl! You are one lucky star. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Apr 08 - 08:51 AM Never claimed to be Susie Sunshine, but I do have the skills to discuss (I don't do rhetorical debating on internet forums) controversial subjects without dragging the conversation down into the personal attack gutter. Which is the standard response of far too many Mudcatters who can't think of an instant reply to "beat" their "opponent". |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Peace Date: 07 Apr 08 - 10:17 AM It was a military man who reminded people in the USA to beware of what was then called the 'military-industrial complex'. Having been in the military does not disqualify (ipso facto) a person from civilian life and pursuits. In fact, Zinni is a civilian once again as he was prior to entering the military. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Barry Finn Date: 07 Apr 08 - 10:30 AM When schooled as an engineer, then spending your adult life in the practice of engineering, just because you retire does not mean you stop thinking as an engineer, that learnt & developed style & skill does not fade, change or go away. It's the same for a military person, espically if they've attained the rank of General, Admirals are smart enough that they won't apply for the office of VP or P, they know their places. But there are places in society & in the government for them but not as pres. IMHO Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Peace Date: 07 Apr 08 - 10:34 AM IMO, Barry, that depends on the person. We've had our fill of civilians as president and it's brought us to this. Hope you are doing well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Donuel Date: 07 Apr 08 - 11:02 AM Rep Neo Condi Rice, Dick Cheney or General Petraous. Dem Richardson, but Riginslinger is right, which leaves Robert Reich or Al Gore. if its Al Sharpton we are toast. but seriously, Zinni would be a big bone to throw at the Military Industrial Complex despite his opposition to the neo con civilian warriors. Too big a bone as far as I am concerned. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Apr 08 - 11:14 AM Barry, An admiral ran as VP to Ross Perot. We will just have to disagree. I think that there are good people who are Generals and admirals, I also think there are bad ones. I think Zinni is a Good one. He has been one hundred percent right about Iraq, Afghanistan and Al qaeda since day one. I think he would be a good campaigner and I think that he could really help the next president. Tree points susie sunshine. No one has said you were Martin Gibson, Bobert said he would use the tactics on you he used one Gibson and I in fact said that you were NOT Martin Gibson. But interestingly enough Martin Gibson would often do what you did in that post. He would sling out sarcastic attacks without taking the time and energy to read the other person's words. Second Point, >> From: GUEST,Guest Date: 06 Apr 08 - 08:24 AM Couldn't agree more, Barry. The very idea this guy would be a great VP choice for either candidate, just shows how invested in the status quo the supporters of Clinton and Obama truly are, and how neither will bring the changes voters claim they want. Odd isn't it, how voters say they want change, and then turn around and vote for status quo candidates? For insight, see 'Politics quotations' thread.<< Couldn't agree more is not a similar opinion to Barry's it is the opinion that Barry was right. But you went on to sarcastically imply that I was too stupid to tell the difference between change and Status Quo, that is a second similarity you have to Martin Gibson, he seldom could make even the simplest point with out cutting another forum member down. Which brings me to the third point. Kat and Barry expressed reasoned thoughtful opinions without trying to cut anyone else down. They have earned our respect. You keep begging to be put in your place as Bobert was trying to do by getting you to support your half baked ideas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Apr 08 - 11:18 AM They've been dining on the bones of our democracy for far too long. The military industrial complex has bankrupted the nation, and destroyed another one. Just how gung ho military do we all need to be, just to win an election? That is the corruptness of this argument for "a strong military". Only nations with imperial designs on the rest of the world lust for a strong military. Only nations based upon greed and corruption have military leaders serving at the highest levels of government. I know I'm not the only one here who can come up with a very LONG list of military dictatorships posing as a republic there are today, or how many we've seen in the past 50 years. If Obama said he was going to change all that on day one, he'd have my vote. Zinni is just another establishment status quo person in a long line of them that may or may not be considered for the #2 spot. But what does it matter? It isn't like either Clinton or Obama are going to scale back or slap down the military industrial complex, or go after the widespread corruption and graft in the military industrial complex, much less end the war. So why throw the military industrial complex yet another high ranking bone? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Ebbie Date: 07 Apr 08 - 12:48 PM "Only nations based upon greed and corruption have military leaders serving at the highest levels of government." There have been a few military men at the head of the US government who don't fit that criterion. Starting with George Washington. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Apr 08 - 01:46 PM There are always exceptions to any rule, though. Can you think of any military man from the US military industrial complex who will truly go in and clean up the mess we are left with today as a result of the post-Reagan "strong military" buildup that's been going on in this country now for nearly 30 years? Especially after the last 7 years? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: mg Date: 07 Apr 08 - 01:55 PM Why would it be a man? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Apr 08 - 01:59 PM I tend to agree with you on this, GG. I think it's very worrisome when a nation continually elevates "war heroes" and military men into high public office, and it is indicative of a nation that is bent upon imperial conquest and that has little regard for peaceful initiatives or civil rights, when it comes right down to it. It is indicative of a nation that plans on fighting wars of its own choosing...and many such wars. It reminds me of imperial Germany or Japan in their militaristic days. Such nations are extremely dangerous. I can recall no Canadian Prime Minister who was ever elected on the basis of being a war hero...no military figures have been elected to high office in Canada. They have all been people with a civilian background, seems to me. Being a "war hero" does not seem to give a person an automatic political boost in this country, so it is not a ploy engaged in by our political parties! (Why is this so? Simply because Canada has not been engaging in aggressively building an overseas Canadian empire for the last 50 or 100 or many more years...as was done by the UK, Germany, Japan, the USA, Italy, France, Spain, etc...and is now being done by the USA with the UK tagging along like Robin to the USA's Batman) The leader we have in Canada now, though, is an eager and willing servant of the USA's imperial agenda...even though he's a civilian. (sigh) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Apr 08 - 02:06 PM GUEST, guest >>Can you think of any military man from the US military industrial complex who will truly go in and clean up the mess we are left with today as a result of the post-Reagan "strong military" buildup that's been going on in this country now for nearly 30 years?<< It's been going on since 1939 at least. You will find peaks under Reagan and Bush, but you define the problem far too narrowly. Bush's and Reagan's build will be stopped by the same things, term limits. Clinton and Bush 41 were no worse than any other post WWII presidents. Cleaning it up is a big job and keeping in mind that the person who invented the term wanted to call it the Military Industrial Congressional Complex, fixing it is a problem way to big for any president or vice president whether or not he is a general. On the other hand, a former General might have the connections and credibility to make cuts that a civilian would not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: irishenglish Date: 07 Apr 08 - 03:59 PM GG- "If Obama said he was going to change all that on day one, he'd have my vote. Zinni is just another establishment status quo person in a long line of them that may or may not be considered for the #2 spot. But what does it matter? It isn't like either Clinton or Obama are going to scale back or slap down the military industrial complex, or go after the widespread corruption and graft in the military industrial complex, much less end the war. GG, first of all, you know darn well that nothing changes overnight. I vote for the person that will come closest to what I believe is the direction this country should go. If my candidate wins, something will change in Iraq and Afghanistan, not on day one, but over time, and I will accept that as progress, because that's what it should be about, not instant results. To take that point in its entirety, which do you feel right now is the most important tactic? Scaling back the military industrial complex, going after the corruption in the same, or ending the war? This country is screaming for a logical end to the war, and that's what I can hope will happen with the election of Obama or Clinton. I think some of the many Generals and Admirals who did raise caution flags over the war would be excellent choices,if not as VP then top ranking Cabinet, to help to guide us out of this debacle. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Riginslinger Date: 07 Apr 08 - 04:28 PM One of the problems is, there are at least two wars going on now. The president, no matter who he/she is, couldn't just pretend like they're not happening. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Amos Date: 07 Apr 08 - 04:57 PM Military men and women, like any others, come in every shade of rational. They get elevated when they succeed, obviously, because they have ensured the survival of the nation. That is a highly valued contribution, implies intelligence and management skill as well as courage. It starts to get real sticky, of course, when their qualifications do not come from having fought in defensive wars (as Eisenhower did) but in wars of imperialist expansion. Especially undesireable in political leadership are those whose military bent has led them into the promotion of warfare and the use of political means to bring about warfare. That is the most perverted mindset we are capable of producing, and we produced it and honored it in the blind lemming reactions of 2000, 2001 and 2004. I think we have had quite enough of it. But there is such a thing as an intelligent and compassionate military person. Anthony Zinni clearly thinks like a human being as well as as a military man. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Ebbie Date: 07 Apr 08 - 05:49 PM If one counts the shrub, it appears that 19 US presidents served in the military at some time, overwhelmingly in the Army. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:24 PM This thread proves a good number of the maxims over at the 'Politics Quotations' thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: Amos Date: 07 Apr 08 - 07:18 PM Miaowwwwr! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The next Vice President? From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Apr 08 - 07:38 PM Bobert, "Think that GG an' I are on some kinda collision coursr...Takes me back to the Martin Gibson days... Not to blowin' my horn here but I think I rope-a-doped him purdy good...Yeah, I might be a tad stoved up but I think the sam game plan will work on the new Martin Gibson..." What kind of talk is that ? I told you, please do not compare me with someone else. I do hope we are not heading on any kind of collision course as you put it. Regarding the pm's you received, you overlooked saying they were replies to those you sent.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
