Transylvanian violin music.

Subject: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 04:45 PM

Whilst on one of my many trips to Romania I was in Transylvania when I heard some street musicians playing at an impromptu get together. I have hunted for similar but the nearest I can get to the sound is the Palatka Band from Hungary. The quality is not good but the sound is similar.
Just thought it would be nice to share.
Similar to Transylvanian Gypsy street music.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 06:35 PM

Lovely stuff. Thank you for posting it.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 07:38 PM

I think there are quite a few bands that have recorded that particular piece and/or others equally enjoyable. Some with which I'm familiar are the Australian band, The Transylvaniacs, and the Hungarian bands Muzsikas, Tukros, and Galga.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: RTim
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 08:49 PM

One of my favuorites is (UK Folk Singer) Pete Castle's daughter - Lucy Castle, who plays with Maramures musician - Ion Pop, and for a while they had a band called - Popiluc.
Are they still inexistence?
For Lucy see - http://www.infoarte.ro/noutati/Lucy-Castle-Hotea-1080-1.html
- I'm sorry if it is in Romanian - but if you are interested, you'll be able to understand?

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 01:05 AM

Georgiansilver

I vould like to zay - "Fangs for dat site!"

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 05:29 AM

And my favourites from Gyimes (Gee-Mesh):

Zerkula Janos and Aunt Gizi - Fiddle & Gardon

March 2007? Now that's what I call folk music!

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: GUEST,redsnapper
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 07:38 AM

Thank you for posing this. I have heard that piece before, perhaps by Mikael Sikos. I sounds very much like it is from the Jewish tradition and the Maramaros region.

RS

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 10:17 AM

Don't forget these:

MySpace_com - taraf de haidouks - Clejani - Folk - www_myspace_com-tarafdehaidouksbandofgypsies

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 10:37 AM

Sorry, that didn't seem to work. Anyway, check out Tarif de Haidouks on various websites, they're well worth listening to!

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: GUEST,Sedayne (Astray)
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 10:50 AM

Nearby... Csango Music from Moldavia

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: bankley
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 11:07 AM

Florin Niculescu from Romania....Roma virtuoso.. a stunning player. Saw him once with Birelli Lagrene. At one point the rest of the band left him alone on the stage for at least 10 minutes..so that he could really stretch out...which he did, and then some.

There's also a fine docu-film called "Latcho Drom"...that features Romani music from Rajesthan to Spain... with Turkey, the Balkans, Italy, and France thrown in.... really well done

Te avalo baxtalo... baxt hai sustimos... nais tuke

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: bankley
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 11:26 AM

ps. the director of 'Latcho Drom' is Tony Gatlif from France.. He has also made several other films about the Roma culture and their music, including 'Gadjo Dilo', 'Translyvania', 'Swing'... very down-to-earth and well made....

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: open mike
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 02:15 PM

have you seen Latcho Drom? a wonderful movie..
one very unusual musical sound is made by
tying a bowstring to the fiddle and running
it through the fingers..a very spooky sound.

the name of the movie means Safe Journey
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107376/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQn6Qb-9mD8

Here is another band, from Hungary
the band Parno Grazst, or "white horse."
http://www.parnograszt.hu/
http://www.myspace.com/parnograszt
I learned about them on the documnetary
http://www.linktv.org/programs/parno

another film on that same t.v. channel
is http://www.linktv.org/programs/beyond
Beyond the Forest is taken from the original
name for the area of Transylvania or Ultrasylvania
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_names_of_Transylvania
http://www.beyondtheforest.com/
it chronicles the revival of traditional music,a vibrant folk renaissance, called the Tanchaz (dance house) movement and the
Hungarian band Muzikas: http://www.muzsikas.hu/index2.htm

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: bankley
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 09:56 AM

Drom is Romanes for 'road'.... I adapted a poem a few years ago called "O Drom si Baro" / The Road is Long... (Baro can also mean great or large) taken from a book written by Ronald Lee in the early '70's called 'Goddamn Gypsy'. He's a Canadian Rom living in Ontario, longtime activist, advocate and educator. I've learned much from him and have acompanied him in a few shows of Trad. Romani music. He has a small band called
'Y Zhvindhi Yag'..The Living Fire..

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: bankley
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 10:42 AM

ps. if you check out Tony Gatlif (semi-official) myspace page, you'll find a lot of clips including the violinist mentioned above, drawing a horse-hair across the strings. Also lots of links to various Roma bands and styles.... a treasure-trove for those interested...

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Derby Ram
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 10:50 AM

Sylvia here.

My only experience is hearing Lucy Castle play Transylvanian style fiddle. Absolutely amazing!

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: open mike
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 11:14 AM

official site--- http://www.myspace.com/gatlif

un-official site----http://www.myspace.com/tonygatlif

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: open mike
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 11:24 AM

the fourth movie down on the un-officla page...
shows the horse-hair string technique is illustrated..
he is singing about Chouceskou....(sp?)
who was focussed on trying to wipe out the
Roma culture and traditions and village life .
The gov't bull dozed entire villages
and forced people to live in apartments...

Tony Gatlif (born as Michel Dahmani on September 10, 1948 in Algiers, Algeria) is a French film director who also works as a scriptwriter, actor, and producer.

After a childhood in Algiers, Gatlif arrived in France in 1960 following the Algerian War of Independence. Gatlif struggled for years to break into the film industry, playing in several theatrical productions until directing his first film, La Tête en ruine, in 1975. He followed it with the 1979 La Terre au ventre, a story of the Algerian War of Independence.

Since the 1981 Corre, gitano, Gatlif's work has been focused on the Roma people of Europe, from whom he partially traces his descent.

His 2004 film Exils, won the Best Director Award at the (2004) Cannes Film Festival. His film Transylvania also premiered at Cannes in May 2006.

Tony Gatlif's Filmography
La Tête en ruine (1975)
La Terre au ventre (1978)
Corre gitano (1981)
Canta gitano (1981)
Les Princes (1982)
Rue du départ (1985)
Pleure pas my love (1989)
Gaspard et Robinson (1990)
Latcho Drom (1992)
Mondo (1995)
Gadjo Dilo (1997)
Je suis né d'une cigogne (1998)
Vengo (2000)
Swing (2001)
Exils (2004)
Transylvania (2006)

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 11:48 AM

I am amazed by all the interest and input to this thread. Thank you all for the knowledge.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: bankley
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 12:12 PM

thanx Open Mike for the rest of the info. This is something close to my heart and partial Roma heritage. I would also recommend a book called "Bury Me Standing" by Isabel Fonseca (1996) which is a well written chronicle/history of the European Roma esp. since the fall of the Soviet Union. Not a pretty picture but a testament to the continuing survival and struggle of a rich culture.

Also a National Film Board docu-production (Canada) called 'Opre Roma' which features some gifted refugees as well as Ronald Lee, Los Canesteros, Julia Lovell, and more.... all folks who I'm honoured to call friends...

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: GUEST,Nerd
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 02:46 PM

Your best bets for the band Muzsikas are their CDs "Blues for Transylvania" and "Maramoros: The Lost Jewish Music of Transylvania." Both were released on Hannibal records, and though it looks like they're out of print, you might be able to pick up used copies.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 02:51 PM

Taraf de Haidouks have a bunch of stuff on YouTube. Brilliant band.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: GUEST,Tambalagiu
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 09:02 PM

Georgiansilver:
The Palatka Band is not actually from Hungary, although their CDs are produced there. As the name suggests they are from the village of Palatca in Transylvania. The music from that village is very popular with folk music revivalists in Hungary so they perform in Budapest a lot, making the 9 hour bus ride from Romania every time.

When you say they are only 'as close as you could find' to the music you heard in Transylvania, what difference do you refer to? There are many other great musicians in that region and I may be able to point you towards where to find some.

There might be some good info here to start with:
Fono

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 04:36 AM

It's over a dozen years ago that I was in the centre of Derby one lunchtime, and found Ioan Pop busking in the Market Place, playing the most weird and wonderful music on a horn fiddle. I bought the tape off him there and then. I later did a workshop at a festival with Lucy Castle, but sadly couldn't make much of it.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 06:38 AM

Guest Tambalagui.....I refer to the actual street musicians in Transylvania..who meet impromptu in the middle of the village...one or two start playing and soon there may be 10 to 20 having a session.
The sound is actually far more deep reaching than the so called 'professional stuff'. It hits me in the belly every time.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Zen
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 06:43 AM

Really hoping to make it over to the Maramaros in September (the wedding season) for some great music!

Zen

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: M.Ted
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 10:09 AM

I have nothing to add, but I really appreciate all the links. I've spend the last little while listening to all the videos, and to the additional ones that come up, and it's turned the morning around completely. My band used to play a bunch of this stuff years back, and and it great to hear it again, and especially, to see young people dancing to it--

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: bankley
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 10:14 AM

well, the Roma are masters of spontaneity....

short semi-related story: Django was playing a song solo during a party somewhere in France. Carlos Montoya was there as well. After Django finished, Carlos approaced him saying "That was a wonderful piece. What's it called and where can I get the music for it ?" Django took a drag from his cigarette, smiled and said.. "I don't know, I just made it up"

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: open mike
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 10:39 AM

i have heard that the tarif/haiduks band is often composed of random members by the tour manager....not always the actual band members, but with others added when they arrange a tour.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 12:08 PM

You can learn Csango music in Transylvania and Moldavia. I'm hoping to get to one or both of these in the summer:

http://www.gyimesitabor.nextra.ro/actual.html (Gyimes)
http://www.gyepuk.hu/index.php/gyepuk/taboraink/kuelsorekecsini_faluhet (Moldavia)

My interest is mainly in the kaval (I got fired up after buying one from Gyorgy Ban along with a CD of Andras Hodorog playing it) and to a lesser extent the koboz and dob, but there are violin classes too.

Anybody else from here likely to go?

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Zen
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 02:41 PM

Hi Jack,

Could be interested in this.

Zen

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Bearheart
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 03:20 PM

great thread! Haven't had time to check out the links but I will.

My (third) cousin gave me copies of a Tukros Cd last summer when we were visiting him in Budapest-they are friends of his. Also he took us to a great music store around the corner from the Folklore Institute and the young woman recommended a wonderful CD by Zurgo.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: GUEST,Tambalagiu
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 08:10 PM

Jack Campin: There are many folk music 'camps' held in Transylvania over the summers, in many other places than Gyimes and Moldavia.
The link "nyari taborok 2008-ban" on this page lists them (in Hungarian only at present, they usually post an english version eventually).

Open mike: what you heard about the 'taraf de haidouks' band is absolutely correct. The core of the group were originally the local musicians from the village of Clejani. Nowadays they bulk out the lineup with musicians from Bucharest (not far away, and a much bigger pool to draw from). Although I think it's funny they keep pushing the 'Authentic Village Musicians' angle in their promotion, in many ways what they're doing does not go against the tradition, as there has always been a strong musical interplay between Bucharest and it's satellite villages, and in any case the idea of a fixed 'band' with always exactly the same members does not have a great deal of currency among lautari.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Mr Happy
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 07:07 AM

Transylvanian Trumpet Fiddle here:http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=i7qOVsbpANw

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 07:44 AM

Beautiful! A singing fiddler too.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 10:55 AM

Tambalagiu: I heard about those events via the list at http://www.tanchaz.hu , which has lots of such camps, but the 2008 one isn't out yet. The two I mentioned were the ones I was thinking of going to.

There is a lot more about Csango culture, music included, in the National Geographic for June 2005 and the accompanying material on their website.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: GUEST,Tambalagiu
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 12:15 AM

Jack, that's what I said. The link I provided was to www.tanchaz.hu. But the 2008 list IS there, only in Hungarian. Still, it isn't too hard to work out.

That video of the fiddler at Negreni also features some nice obscene lyrics, for which he is told off by an old lady about halfway through...

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: bankley
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 11:48 AM

someone else that's worth checking out is Yuri Yunakov.... saxophonist who plays 'Bulgarian Wedding Music'      friggin' wild

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: open mike
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 01:34 PM

for anyone else who wonders what's a
Kaval
or a koboz
another Kaboz
or a Dob (drum) ?

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 08:52 PM

Wrong kind of kaval - I meant the Moldavian one - do a YouTube search under "Moldvai kaval", or follow some of the Csango music links given here. It has five fingerholes, has a rather odd scale which is partly done by tabor-pipe-like harmonics, and is usually played by humming into it at the same time. The Bulgarian one (the sort you found) and the Turkish one are different, and different from each other.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 May 08 - 05:44 PM

Marion and I have now booked to go on two successive one-week courses on Csango music and dance in Romania this summer. The organizers (in Hungary) make it very easy - you just get to Budapest and they bus you to Moldavia, then to Gyimes in Transylvania, then back to Budapest. The first is 20 July - 26 July, the second is 27 July - 3 August. URLs as I gave them above.

Anybody else heading that way? Zen?

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Zen
Date: 10 May 08 - 06:16 AM

Hi Jack... still interested although money's a little tight. I'll look into it and let you know.

Zen

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 01:30 PM

Just found another site listing Hungarian folk events, though it only goes up to July and is a bit thin for a couple of months before that: www.folkradio.eu/naptar.html. The blanks should be filled in later in the year. (Only in Hungarian but easy enough to figure out).

I realize I didn't think to put a link my report of the folk camps in Romania into this thread. Here it is: www.campin.me.uk/Travel/Romania2008/.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: wyrdolafr
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 01:44 PM

A couple of years ago I bought a CD called 'Transylvanian village music' by The Ökrös Ensemble for my partners mum and dad who are Hungarians who've been living in England since the late 1950s.

I've nothing to compare it to really, but they seemed to like it.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 05:40 PM

Thanks. That was very interesting. The fiddler who was able to hold the instrument conventionally then on it's side was very revealing.

Stringsinger

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 06:11 PM

Or the player doubling on a different instrument? Not sure which video you mean, but the kontra is the instrument normally played on its side - it's a viola with a flattish bridge, used for rhythmic vamping.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: GUEST,Pete Castle
Date: 01 May 09 - 10:42 AM

Someone sent me a link to this thread so I thought I'd say hello, and update you. Popeluc, after resting for 8 years, did a short reunion tour in 2005 which went very well. The following year we did one gig together and Lucy and Popicu appeared at a festival in Wales. After that, due to 'personal problems' we drew a line under it for ever.
Lucy is not playing at all at the moment due to health problems. A great loss.
I am still ploughing my lonely furrow as an itinerant folk singer and storyteller. I'm concentrating on English material again now but I learned an awful lot from playing the Transylvanian music and especially from visiting there.
Thanks to all those above who mentioned enjoying our performances.
For more info see my web site at http://www.petecastle.co.uk

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 May 09 - 05:37 PM

The 2009 list of Hungarian folk music and dance camps is now on-line:

www.tanchaz.hu/start_en.html

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:56 AM

I've just found cassette of an album called Tunderkert by an all-star line-up of Hungarian musicians (including Marta Sebestyen) from 1988; a friend sent it me from Hungary & I never managed to track down the vinyl or CD. Amazing stuff really - always infuses me with a sense of impending spring! Well worth checking out.

Subject: RE: Transylvanian violin music.
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 08:43 AM

Passion Music (whose link you just gave) are a web-based Hungarian music distributor in then UK. I think. They go to extreme lengths to be physically untraceable, and don't respond to email (and you need to do a whois query even to find an email address).

They may well be on the up and up, but I would never buy from anybody who operated that way. It's only a bit more expensive to pay postage from Hungary and buy from Etnofon (Sandor Balogh's outfit) in Budapest.