BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?

Subject: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 May 08 - 07:01 PM

Well, it has happened again. I was driving in to work at 8:30am and was forced to stop behind a crowd of flag waving dickheads urinating in the middle of the road. Mrs P went out at lunch time on the fringes of Manchester City Centre and was forced to step over the prone bodies of drunken football 'fans' and pools of vomit. That was the good bit. The bad was crowds of beer and whisky swilling idiots forcing her off the pavement with threats and abuse into the path of oncoming traffic. Thank heavens she was unharmed. Where were the police all this time?

"Oh," says the civilian desk operative. "There is no problem really. We have it all under control. Just a few lads having a good time. We have to expect the odd incident in these situations"

Ha!

A few hours later and the Scottish idiots have lost to the Russian idiots. The police have to baton charge the crowds in at least two separate places. People are wandering about with blood pouring from wounds and the cost to the city is horrendous. Why don't we learn. Football hooliganism is endemic.

Sorry guys. Genuine fans and all that. Never any trouble at our ground merchants. Until people realise that football is just a GAME; until they accept that crowd behavior like todays is unacceptable in any walk of life then, as far as I am concerned, the whole damn thing should be banned.

Imagine for one minute that the crowds at Whitby or Fylde Folk festival did one fraction of the damage that these idiots do. Would the festival be back on next year? I think not. But because it is 'the great god football' it's all OK?

Come on you 'genuine fans'. Put a stop to it. Zero tolerance for any bad behavior is the only answer an only you can insist on it.

There. rant over. Feel better now.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 May 08 - 07:09 PM

Given Greater Manchester Police's record of gratuitous bigoted thuggery, I rather doubt if they *had* to baton charge anyone, and I suspect you have underestimated the number of teams of idiots involved by 50%.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 May 08 - 07:18 PM

Aye - You are probably right, Jack. It was the police that insisted I could not enter Deansgate tonight - even though I was a law abiding citizen on my way for a quiet pint! But who made them apply that draconian measure? It certainly wasn't anything I did. In the end when I had to leave, dry, for my more familiar Salford watering holes I suppose they did save me from a potential pasting:-( I cannot really blame the police for doing their job in that case. I can blame the horads of drunken idiots that do 'their game' no favours at all though.

Cheers

Dave
(Calming down now after a few pints of good stuff in the Crescent and a glass of Malt by the 'puter:-) )

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 May 08 - 08:24 PM

Minority?

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 14 May 08 - 09:27 PM

Dave, I spoke to my son on the phone tonight in Manchester. He said local landlords couldn't serve enough drink to them today. 30% of those who came down to Manchester today could not have seen the match, they were rat assed by 5.00pm. He said the police on the trains were great at keeping those arriving at bay. He said there was a lot of hustling of travellers at the airport although airport staff said there was no trouble on any of the aircraft.

The police should have enforced a ruling to make central Manchester alcohol free today. There was a lot of trouble around Picadilly when the big screen broke down (the other one was flicking towards the end of the match).

He said the women were worse than the men, running out in front of traffic and pulling their tops up. The amount of alcohol consumed had a lot to do with it, something that needs addressed in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 May 08 - 09:36 PM

As Jonesy in Dad's Army used to say "They don't like it up 'em..."

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 08 - 10:02 PM

People are under a lot of stress in modern society. They're frustrated and they feel powerless. The purpose served by your football games is quite similar to the purpose served by the Roman games which involved gladiators, races, men fighting animals, men fighting pitched battles, etc...all that was done to give the mob a catharsis of emotion so they could forget briefly about their worldly problems and blow off some pent-up frustration.

The stupider members of the mob generally find stupider ways of blowing off frustration, and thus riots were fairly common in Rome too. When riots got out of hand in Rome they sent the troops into the streets and killed people by the hundreds or thousands if necessary until they dispersed and got off the streets.

The problem with football games is you have a winner and a loser...and the fans of the losing team tend to lose their tempers because they don't get the positive catharsis they are looking for. That turns their mood ugly. Add alcohol and you've got a really bad scene.

Now you just cannot compare that to a folk festival in any way. It's a completely different phenomenon and it serves a different purpose. It attracts a different audience.

Anyway, don't expect it to end, Dave, because there is way too much money invested in football for them to consider ending it. I wish I could say the same about folk festivals. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 08 - 03:31 AM

I know you can't compare it to a festival, LH. That is part of the point. What I am saying is that in ANY other walk of life, including folk festivals, if 'fans' behaved the way that these louts did then the authorities would be quick to close it down. You are spot on about the money though and I know it is just wishful thinking but don't you just wish that the football industry got the kick up the arse it deserves.

I didn't need to speak to anyone on the phone, Victor. I saw it first hand. These idiots were not rat arsed by 5pm - Some of them were gone by 8:30am and a even larger proportion by lunch time! As to 30% without tickets. Well, an estinated 100,000 rangers fans were in the city along with 9000 Russians. The stadium holds less than 50,000. Work it out.

While I agree that alcohol is part of it I don't know if I agree that a ban on the use of it is the answer. Surely a ban on the abusers rather than the substance is more sensible? Why should I, for instance, a responsible drinker and non-football fan, be stopped from going for a pint in my own home town because a crowd of drunken idiots start behaving like pack animals? It's like saying that because there are muggers out on the streets we should stay at home. Lets get things in perspective here. Compared to the number of people world wide who consumed alcohol yesterday what proportion do you think went on to cause trouble? I can't answer it but I suspect the answer is pretty low.

I ask again, why do people seem to think it is OK because these animals are acting in the name of the great god Football?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 May 08 - 04:09 AM

As a citizen of Manchester I have to say that I was appalled by yesterday's events. How is it that the authorities of this city can allow it to be virtually shut down, for a couple of days, by thousands of drunken thugs? And all for something as trivial as a football match in which the city's teams were not even involved!

I think that the City Council must bear a lot of the responsibility for yesterday's events for providing TV screens in the City centre. I'm sure that these idiots will rant on about the revenue brought into the city - but I wonder if they've calculated the cost of the disruption?

It pains me to say it but I thoroughly despise football fans - yes, THE MAJORITY of football fans. Mindless, selfish, 'tribal' idiots who have no respect for anyone else and who are all too ready to resort to violence and disorder. When I see football fans getting thrashed by foriegn riot police I feel little sympathy - it's a pity the Manchester Police didn't go in a lot harder last night!

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 May 08 - 04:27 AM

Minority - yes.

But how many does it take?

And how many beers?

At the end of the day Football has to police itself or take the criticism. Or wait for politicians to act - and they will eventually even in the case of football, even though they are frightened shitless of upsetting the bulk of decent fans.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Brakn
Date: 15 May 08 - 04:56 AM

There were a lot of well behaved fans tho...............

The first time I remember Rangers coming to Manchester was in, I think, 1973 for a "Friendly". Everything they didn't break they pissed on. Never had there been that much trouble with any other team for a "Friendly". They were never invited again.

Last time they came to Manchester for a competeive game, every landlord in my area, Altrincham, was advised to close his doors. I was most annoyed; I missed my pint!

I'm not surprised by all this and I wouldn't think that many others are either.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 15 May 08 - 05:00 AM

I agree with you Dave. This morning the media played it down, they said it was a small number of fans that caused the trouble. From what I saw on the television news it looked like a large number. Sadly a Russian fan was stabbed. It is the clubs that attract their followers, so it's the clubs that should receive the bill from the government for the resources and damage. If you organise a rally or protest, you have to give the police 21 days notice or it is considered an illegal gathering. Clubs must be held accountable.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 15 May 08 - 05:01 AM

It's not necessarily the alcohol. Football seems to predispose people to aggression and tribalism in a way that, say, rugby league doesn't. I've been to cup finals at (old) Wembley- at least one absolutely cathartic, up for grabs until decided in the last 5 minutes- and afterwards the crowd dispersed without segregation, completely problem free despite many being a few minutes past their bedtime.

I think that the hype is used to whip up the aggression and chauvinism, the easier to relieve supporters of thousands for a season ticket, a Sky Sport subscription, or a crap "replica" shirt.

BTW they're planning big- screen TVs in most major cities for the 2012 Olympics, the better to sell advertising to Olympic sponsors.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 May 08 - 05:15 AM

You cannot legislate for idiots. This government is particularly guilty of bringing in new laws as the universal panacea to a given problem.
It's education that's needed not legislation, if you are not taught that a thing is wrong, how are you ever going to know, good behaviour is not innate, it's learned.
As for the argument about it bringing revenue to the city; revenue to whom? The publicans and other commercial interests will gain, and the rate payers will pay.

Giok

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 08 - 07:39 AM

I was saddened by the whole affair. The more I think of it though, the more saddened is turning into sickened. Imagine the cost of policing that debacle. Yet look here for details of how local schoolgirls were told they could not march in protest at the closure of their school because the cost of policing was too high!

Somehow a group over over-paid and over-rated people kicking a bag of wind around for 90 minutes are more important than the education of our children. You are quite right, Giok, education is the key. But while the new religion of football tribalism holds sway over the media and government, they are going to rule us as surely as the Spanish Inquisition did or, more recently, the Taliban did in Afghanistan.

While ordinary people, some just like you and I, think it is perfectly acceptable to intimidate bystanders by chanting tribal slogans walking down the public highways then we will have a problem. Sorry - Not just acceptable according to some TV pundits and the advertising magnets, possitively encouraged! While the players on the pitch think it is OK to dispute every authoratative decision and behave like lunatics when the score a goal then the people watching will also believe it acceptable. While the local and police authirities are willing to turn a blind eye to the kind of carnage we saw yesterday and put it down to 'a few' troublemakers and high spirits then theses things will continue.

Zero tollerance of bad behaviour on and off the pitch. Reinforce what is acceptable to everyone concerened. Educate people to realise that there are people not interested in what team you support. If all that doesn't work then, yes, go ahead and ban drink altogether. I'll see you outside a cafe bar in a more civilised country...:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 May 08 - 08:27 AM

Dave, you're right and a lot uf us football-lovers who DO behave properly agree wholeheartedly with you.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 15 May 08 - 08:35 AM

My son who lives in Manchester told me this morning that the pavements are covered in vomit and a mountain of beer cans and fast food wrapping litter the streets.The council has an army of cleaners in the city, including hiring private companies. The street next to his saw almost every wing mirror kicked off parked cars.

Why should rate payers have to foot the bill ?

Landlords, supermarkets, off-licences, fast food outlets and those who organised the venue and sold tickets are walking to banks today with wheel barrows of money, maybe they should foot the bill.

The good news is, Manchester Council has scrapped plans to show the Manchester V Chelsea match on big screens next Wednesday.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 08 - 09:00 AM

That IS good news, Victor. Pity for the Man U fans who cannot get there - but there are precious few of them in Manchester anyway:-) (United fans will understand that one!) At least it shows that the authorities are taking heed of lessons learned.

There was an altercation with a crowd of young lads breaking mirrors etc. down a street some years ago reported in the local paper. A resident rang the police, only to be informed that they were too busy and could spare no one to investigate. So he rang back and said he was about to shoot some of the lads. When 3 squad cars and 2 vans turned up 2 minutes later he was accused of wasting police time and lying to them. He pointed out that they had lied to him first. The case was dropped when it got to the press:-)

Cheers

dave.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 May 08 - 09:28 AM

All I can say is...thank God it's not happening where I live!

As Snoopy used to say (hunkered down morosely at the WWI airfield canteen afterhours bar): "How many root beers does it take?"

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Den
Date: 15 May 08 - 10:02 AM

A few good points made above. I think ignorance has quite a bit to do with it. Couple that with a limited education, tribal mentality and copious amounts of booze and voila.

I shall be watching the Champion's league final between Manchester United and Chelsea in the comfort of my home in front of my own TV with a large bottle of Perrier sparkling water and a large bag of Miss Vickie's Jalapeno chips. Come on you reds.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 15 May 08 - 10:37 AM

I am looking forward to our Gaelic football championship which begins on Sunday, no segregation of supporters, a little booze, no crowd trouble, there will be attendances of upwards to 80,000 in Croke Park as the games get under way, and no rioting after the match.
Entertainment plus, how the soccer officials envy us.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 08 - 10:51 AM

Wish I was watching The original reds tonight. There will certainly be a big difference in the crowds behavior. Unfortunately I have promised Mrs P to meet her in Marks and Sparks to but new undies for our US trip. Oh joy...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 15 May 08 - 12:45 PM

Now Dave when a guy goes buying underwear with a lady it sounds a little suspect !!

I have to work from memory these days !

Enjoy the trip.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Den
Date: 15 May 08 - 03:03 PM

Don't those fella's play with odd shaped balls though Dave?

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 May 08 - 04:59 PM

Quite why some sports have a culture of violence among supporters and others don't is a puzzle.

I was watching a Gaelic football game (West Meath and Longford) on the box the other day, and it struck me looking at the crowd how the supporters of both teams were mixed up in the stands, as the most natural thing in the world.

And then turned to see the Rangers/Zenit match - total segregation. Massed blue army of Rangers fans all round the ground, and a relatively tiny patch of Zenit fans in white, with the occasional Celtic shirt in the middle.

Which came first - the segregation of fans or the culture of violence? I have a suspicion that the segregation has played a major part in building this kind of thing.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 15 May 08 - 05:52 PM

Segregation I think followed fighting in the terraces in the early seventies. As I recall there were reports in the media to separate fans to either side of the grounds with colour coded tickets. Fighting occurred outside grounds in those days which seems to have died off due to good marshalling and police numbers these days.

Sad really when two tribes clash. One solution would be for judges to hand out longer sentences. I doubt many judges are affected by gangs of thugs outside their homes.

I am sick sore and tired of reading in the local papers how some thug was drunk at the time he blinded someone or put a bottle through a car windscreen. Solicitors enter this as a plea for mercy day and daily. Often judges accept the plea and tell the thug to control his drinking.

Did some hold them down and pour it down their throats ?

I firmly believe some judges live in total isolation unaware what goes on in the real world.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 08 - 06:25 PM

When two tribes go to war...

Could be a song in there somewhere:-)

I think segregation played it's part as well. Reinforced the 'us and them' way of thinking.

Anyone see the reports on TV tonight? Got up my nose once again. 'How good that only 40 people were arrested in crowds of 150,000.' Sorry, but that is NOT good. It is crap policing. They should have arrested at least 100 times that many. We watched as a crowd of 200 or more chased police until one poor contstable fell, at which point thy set on him like a pack of dogs. He is lucky to be alive.

We heard fans who were 'not involved' blaming heavy handed police and showing us the bruises, while still carrying half a crate of beer. We heard how the police 'antagonised' the crowd, while that same crowd were turning over cars with innocent people still inside them!

Reporters say that only a handful were violent. OK. Maybe they were, but the majority - and I will stand by that - were drunk and either incapable or disorderly. Both crimes in their own right. Why were they not arrested? Why were the ones urinating in our streets not arrested for public decency offences? Why were those depositing cans, bottles, vomit and excrement on our streets not forced to clean it up? Because everyone is frightened of offending the new god, football and his high priest commercial sponsership. That is why.

Tell you what, Ard and Den in particular, I have on occasions tried to defend the troubles over here by saying yours were worse, but no more. These people are nothing but filth and I want nothing to do with them. I am still proud of my English (Polish, Russian and 57 other varieties) heritage but it is as far removed from these wankers as Watneys red Barrel is from beer!

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 May 08 - 06:33 PM

I once lived near the White City ground.

And all the most enthusiastic association football players and followers at school were among the mindless mouth-breathers.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 08 - 06:38 PM

BTW - Bought one pack of trolleys and got another 1/2 price. 6 Pairs of M&S boxers for a tenner! Not bad to me:-)

How did the real reds go on? Read on...

MATCH REPORT

Salford City Reds 24-22 Celtic Crusaders
The Willows, Salford
Thursday 15 May 2008, 7.30pm
National League 1 - Round 7

The Reds just had enough to scrape past a gutsy Celtic Crusaders side who have already shocked Halifax and Widnes this season. Despite cruising into an early 0-12 lead, the Crusaders were eventually pegged back by Salford who grabbed the points courtesy of two long-range Paul White tries.

Tempers flared towards the end and a brawl erupted that led to Reds' Captain Malcolm Alker heading to the sin-bin and the incident put on report, but the Reds had enough to hang on and take all three points on offer.

Preparation had been affected with the loss of influential Aussie prop Craif Stapleton who has had to dash back to Australia due to a family bereavement and that gave young Adam Sidlow a chance to make his mark which he took gleefully with a sprightly performance showing he was always keen to offload.

If White's pace turned out to be the difference mentions should be given to Paul Highton and Stuart Littler, scoring his 98th try for the club, as well as a monumental performance for Phillip Leuluai at prop.

Does anyone else find the 'sin bin' bit significant? Imagine Renaldo or Rooney going for a quiet sit down in the corner on the refs say so?

Me neither.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 16 May 08 - 04:29 AM

Dave and all of the others, in fairness, has anyone ever seen, heard of, or read of a riot during or after a Rugby Union or League game?, I put all I have on a no answer.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 16 May 08 - 04:35 AM

Warrington, when it was in Lancashire, used to have a reputation for intimidation of visiting fans, and it was considered wise to hide your scarf and hat unless you were in a group. It's just as bad these days, but they don't need the provocation of opposition to knife you.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 16 May 08 - 04:39 AM

Ha! I win! Hand over everything you've got ard mhacha, you didn't say it had to be UK!

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 May 08 - 08:42 AM

Did you ever nip out of De la Salle for a Salford game at the Willows, Paul? Or down to the Weaste Hotel for a pint, once you got your black blazer? :-) Mind you - I was a bit after your time. Did they even has a 6th form common room where you could smoke then?

I must say I am quite surprised at that find of yours. I would have hazarded a guess at the same answer as ard mhacha. I think in fairness we do need to find out why, generaly, Rugby fans are better behaved. Perhaps football could learn something from it but is you compare the ammount of money in each sport I think the footy hierarchy would just laugh:-(

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 16 May 08 - 08:56 AM

In my day, rugby games were always 3 o'clock on a Saturday afternoon- no floodlights back then! We didn't go to the Weaste, it was in the wrong direction, but we went to the Brit (just into Pendlebury from Irlam's o'th'Height) if we got out early enough. Gave me time to shed the blazer as we passed home on the way. And I didn't smoke till later, I was a good well behaved Catholic boy.

As for riots, Aussies will do anything. But I think the problems may be to do with the size of the crowds. It's hard to get really worked up when there's only 800 of you (like sometimes when Salford were on a low). But when there's 20 or 30 thousand, people can get subsumed in the crowd- like when St. Cyril egged on a crowd to kill the mathematician Hypatia in Alexandria- they scaped her to death with scallop shells...

which makes rugby league look a bit tame...

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Den
Date: 16 May 08 - 09:25 AM

I hate generalizations but...I think your average rugby fan is more of a thinking man than your average football fan.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 16 May 08 - 11:25 AM

Yes Paul I must admit our papers have been full of the riots at Warrington, the old`Wires` were a bad lot, are you kidding, there is not a minute comparison between the followers of both Rugby codes and the mobs of yobs that follow soccer.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 16 May 08 - 12:26 PM

A few weeks ago my son, a Bristol fan and I, a Gloucester fan attended a local derby game in Bristol. We had a few pints in a local pub, landlorded incidentally by a Munster fan (he was serving bar in his Munster shirt) both sets of fans happy to be drinking together. We strolled to the match, still with opposing fans and on entering the stadium, collected a pint of beer each and took our seats. It happened that where we were sat, I was surrounded by Bristol fans, although looking around the ground, there had obviously been no attempt to deliberately segregate the fans. I did not feel atall intimidated, I was neither verbally or physically abused and at the end of the match cogratulations and commiserations were exchanged to the accompaniment of hand shakes.
As we left the ground, I can't remember noticing any police officers,although I suppose there must have been some. In spite of this and the fact that a lot of alchohol had been consumed both in and out of the ground, nobody was leggless, there was no abuse being exchanged, no damage to property, nobody was stabbed or got their head kicked in.......... But then this was a Rugby Football match.

Had a match been staged under similar circumstaces between two local Association Football teams it would have been a recipe for disaster.

I'm afraid the scenes shown on the TV are not new, this sort of disgraceful behaviour has been going on for years, and it adds insult to injury that the tax payer should have to continue to pick the bill. When it comes to the finance of the game, the only winners would appear to be the football clubs and their playing staff. It should be them then that should be made to pay for every penny of policing, cleaning up, reparation of damage etc. Some of these clubs are rich beyond imagination, and yet public money is spent on this, at the same time services are being cut because of shortage of funds. I appreciate that not all clubs are wealthy, some of the smaller clubs are struggling financially, and maybe those where crowd trouble is rare. What I would propose then is that clubs fund this aspect of the game, and it clearly IS an aspect of the game of Association Football, with a payment made by the clubs at the start of each season and ring-fenced solely for this purpose. Each club's contribution should be calculated on their ability to pay, and the cost associated with each team's games during the preceding season. Failure to pay should prevent teams from staging games, perhaps then, the football clubs and football authorities might pull out ALL the stops to find solutions to this problem.

Rog

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 May 08 - 01:54 PM

I seem to remember one time that St Helens supporters chased Eddy Waring down Knowsley Road when they got to hear of some adverse comments he had made about their team.

not a riot, but then they didn't catch him.......

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 16 May 08 - 02:21 PM

Poor Eddie he must have been the worst commentator of all time, I would suggest that the Saints fans were doing us all a favour.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 16 May 08 - 02:30 PM

I have been looking at the You Tube videos of the Manchester riots, I am sure the few decent Rangers fans after viewing the mayhem of Manchester will be asking themselves, how can I be associated with this vermin.
It is the modern Dantes inferno, almost incredible.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 16 May 08 - 04:19 PM

Yeah ... you can't compare it to a folk festival ...

.. but you can compare it to a rugby match, a cricket match, aussie rules, ice hockey, basket ball, tennis, base ball, american football, rugby league, the olympics, squash, golf, gaelic football, hurling, Kabadi, etc etc etc etc ...

There is no justification for it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 08 - 04:57 PM

Association football seems to be the sport with the association with cropwd violence in many countries(maybe that's another reason for the name). Basically, wherever you live, if its crowd violence you are after, that's the sport to follow.

It's been suggested that this has some tie-in with the fact that, compared with Rugby or American Football or Australian Rules, there isn't so much overt physical violence on the pitch itself, so some of the fans feel a need to make up for that.

I suspect it's more a case of a copycat process - a meme for crowd violence that has become linked with football in a random way.

And more worryingly, it has mutated, so that the real problem now isn't crowd violence, it's violence in city centres linked with people watching in pubs or on public screens.

And daft thing is, of course, no need for a pub to have any kind of licence to show dangerous stuff like football matches on their screens, but they have to have one if anybody wants to make music...

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: akenaton
Date: 16 May 08 - 05:32 PM

Nothing tribal about the Rangers supporters.
They are proud supporters of the Union to a man!
These same thugs who tore Manchester apart, will villify Alex Salmond for wishing to "rip Scotland from the womb of the UK"...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 May 08 - 07:06 PM

Darn shame you don't have Don Cherry over there to spice things up for you. He's a Canadian hockey commentator with very unusual tastes in clothing and a personal style which simply must be seen to be fully appreciated. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 May 08 - 01:54 AM

Blimey, ake - I never know that. Funny thing is I saw more Union flags being waved last Weds than I have ever seen before - If you are right in your assesment that explains why.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: akenaton
Date: 17 May 08 - 04:00 AM

Aye Dave....Its all bound up in Religious sectarianism.
Queen and country...protestant UK
Pope and republicanism....historically Catholic.

They're all stone mad, but there are millions of them. It has held back the Nationalist cause in Scotland for a century.
Sectarianism and religious bigotry was openly encouraged by Rangers Football Club in the fifties and sixties...They even produced records of sectarian songs, performed by the team...

Bigotry still hangs over Rangers and their supporters like a bad smell.
The Scottish disease!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: alanabit
Date: 17 May 08 - 06:44 AM

Bigotry and this local rivalry stuff can often play a part. However, I think the reason football violence takes place is quite simply that some young men feel the need to go out and fight. They don't even particularly dislike each other; they just obtain a great deal of exhilaration and pleasure from fighting. As association football is the main sport in many countries, it has attracted more of these young men than other sports.
I remember my Uncle Gerald telling me that when he was a youngster, the local lads would meet up with the lads from other villages at the weekends for a punch up. They did not hate each other; they just had nothing better to do.
I don't know what the answer is. However, I am fairly sure that the phenomenon of young men fighting each other as a pastime is not a new one. I just wish the sods would not tarnish the image of my favourite sport with it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 17 May 08 - 07:03 AM

I am surprised that Dave never knew of the sectarianism associated with the Rangers club, from the foundation of the club they refused to play a Catholic until new Manager Graham Souness came along in the late 1970s and signed Maurice Johnson a Catholic.
Many Rangers fans at that time vowed they would never support the club again, Johnson must have been a brave man, he should have been in line for a VC.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: GUEST,mayomick
Date: 17 May 08 - 07:55 AM

Wouldn't it be possible for FIFA or the FA to dock the football club points if their fans were found guilty of misbehaving? I used to work with a self confessed football hooligan . He was first and foremost a dedicated fan of his club ,West Ham , who used to follow them around everywhere - that was back in the seventies. The papers used to say at the time that football hooligans were only interested in violence and were not real fans and that the real fans should stand up to them .As somebody who was never that much bothered by the game I sort of agreed with that. But my co-worker convinced me that that wasn't the case.He regularly used to come to work on a Monday morning (if he wasn't appearing in court )covered in bruises and black eyes of which he seemed proud , and he always insisted that the hooligans were the most loyal fans in all football clubs and that what the papers said about them was a load of tosh .
I really think that the only thing that would have made him moderate his behaviour would have been the thought of seeing West Ham drop a couple of places in the league table.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 May 08 - 09:08 AM

My parents are in their 70s and they go regularly to watch Norwich (where they have season tickets) play football. They would not be doing so if the feared even less trouble than described here.

Yes, there is something about the mentality of certain football fans. Yes there are issues that need sorting, etc. But I do think it is a minority of idiots.

A trouble is though, if only 1/1000 of football supporters were idiots, there would still be a lot of them.