BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Stu
Date: 21 May 08 - 04:01 AM

Bum. I meant 100.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: GUEST,metoo
Date: 21 May 08 - 05:34 AM

Whenever you point out to believers of any sort that other people of the same nominal belief behave like arseholes (angeli non sunt, sed ani), they shoot back "Ah, but theyre not real xyzists!" If you don't want the tag, don't wear the label.

I suppose one could take a similar view with football supporters. Many fans will say the minority of violent thugs aren't true football supporters and quite a few seem to at least have some degree of sympathy with the view. Also, I think very few would consider say "stop supporting rangers" so you don't have the tag of 'football hooligan'" very fair.

Matters are I suppose more difficult with football supporters than they are with Christianity in one way. There are no set of values or code of conduct written down for football supporters so in one sense, we can not really say how true football supporters are expected to behave.

With Christianity, it is plain that they have the New Testament and are supposed to follow the teachings of Christ. At least most reasonable people would see that the thugs, rather than following this example are doing pretty much the opposite. In that way, I believe it is entirely reasonably to say they are not being true Chritians, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 21 May 08 - 06:18 AM

Follow the New Testament and the teachings of Christ eh? Hypatia probably wished they didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: GUEST,metoo
Date: 21 May 08 - 06:34 AM

Please point me to the passage in the New Testament.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 08 - 07:13 AM

I don't think I have an issue with the 'teachings of Christ' as such. It's the interpretation of them over the last 2000 years that causes the problems. I will turn around the question, metoo. Where in Christs teachings does he say it is OK to burn witches and kill Jews? Is it Christ or the church that said contaception is wrong? Where in the New Testament does it say it is OK for one set of Christians to blow up another set of Christians because the do not have the same leader?

But, again, we are being sidetracked. Is a thread on football hooliganism the right place for a religious discussion? Is football the new religion after all?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: GUEST,metoo
Date: 21 May 08 - 07:30 AM

Unfortunately where greed, desire for power, perhaps even desire for a justice exists, religion can be used as a tool in various ways. I will not dispute that it can be used wrongly or abused. I don't believe it is interpretation of the teaching of Christ though. Could you honestly read the New Testament and reach the conclusion that you should be doing any of the things you mentioned?

Is football the new religion? I don't think so but possibly it could be misused in one similar way? If for whatever purpose of my own, I wanted to stir up a fight, could I use "your a Man U supporter and he supports Liverpool" to further these ends?

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 21 May 08 - 07:34 AM

But whoso shall offend one of these little [children] which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. (Matthew 18:6; Mark 9:42; Luke 17:2)

That sounds pretty violent to me. Even Rangers fans haven't done that yet.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."    (Matthew 10:34)

That's what the guy said.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: GUEST,metoo
Date: 21 May 08 - 07:39 AM

I'm thankfull you personally are not a Christian

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 21 May 08 - 08:00 AM

So am I.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 21 May 08 - 09:11 AM

"I agree with the findings of this report (Guardian May 2008)and feel church attendance as a family has a positive effect."

Our family attended church together - but, as a child, all it taught me was that adults are capable of spouting the most ludicrous, self-serving (not to mention unbearably tedious) nonsense.

Two robust antidotes to religion and its fallacies are Richard Dawkin's, 'The God Delusion' and Christopher Hitchen's, 'God Is Not Great'. Both books only confirm and articulate what my younger self suspected all along!

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: meself
Date: 21 May 08 - 10:01 AM

'Oh bugger, it's THAT answer again. Whenever you point out to believers of any sort that other people of the same nominal belief behave like arseholes (angeli non sunt, sed ani), they shoot back "Ah, but theyre not real xyzists!" If you don't want the tag, don't wear the label.'

How exactly are the Rangers' fans/hooligans 'wearing the label'? Do they wave Bibles around, sing Onward Christian Soldiers in the stands, shout 'God is great!' whenever they clobber someone on the street, or what?

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 08 - 10:51 AM

I was equaly surprised, meself. I thought sectarianism had lost it's hold on football but just take a look yourself. It's a very easy topic to reseach although it does not make for pleasant reading:-( There is a survey you will find (2005 I think) where it shows that sectarian crime is on the increase in general and is still rife on the terraces. I fully understand you not wanting to be tarred with the same brush as these thugs but, unfortnately, they are committing these crimes in the name of your religion. Until both football and religion rids itself of these people then they will both be dragged down.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 21 May 08 - 02:33 PM

I had a strict religious upbringing (didn't do my two brothers much good, wild as March Hares both of them). It was like growing up with God in the house(which I was told he was).

I can't say getting the bible thumped into you at a young age keeps you on the straight and narrow, I think if you are brought up with respect and a knowledge of right and wrong in the home it sticks with you. I respected my parents and my old man was firm, but understanding. He took no crap of any of us and if we did something wrong we heard about it !

Now one benefit I have to tell you about is my mother always insisted we attend the weekly Sunday Christian youth gathering and all Christian social evenings (David Whitfield on the gramophone and a bottle of lemonade).

She said "that is where you will meet a good clean living Christian girl,they make perfect wives". Well I have to say I loved going to these events but my mother wasn't exactly right about them. I remember there was only about three of the young ladies I met at these events that it wasn't eating the thigh of them. I stopped going to these events as I didn't have the stamina !

Sorry for the thread drift, right I am away to watch Chelsea collect the cup !

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 08 - 06:15 PM

Spot on, Victor Knowledge and respect is what is needed. Nothing to do with dogma.

Shame about your last line but it went right to the wire! Went to the best team of course..;-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 21 May 08 - 06:37 PM

Oh I can't argue with a Manchester man ! Enjoy the events in Manchester in the days to come Dave. A great victory for the people of Manchester I hope they all have a wonderful party. A great start to a Bank Holiday weekend.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 08 - 03:18 AM

I'm going to be in St Louis! Me and my cousin may watch England vs USA in a bar in Memphis though:-) Thanks anyway, Victor. I'm sure the party this weekend will be far better natured than the events of last week.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 22 May 08 - 03:45 AM

Brilliant! Enjoy the experience and have a great time. Safe journey and don't forget the ipod for the flight.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 08 - 02:26 PM

Whoops! No celebrations after all. Apparantly is is OK for hundreds of thousands of Scottish and Russian fans to use Manchester for ther 'festivities' but the Manchester United homecoming has been cancelled due to safety fears.

Ah well. Maybe the genuine fans who are complaining about the councils lack of integrity will think again when it comes to the next elections. I doubt it though. Maybe they will think twice about turning a blind eye to hooliganism? Doubt that as well. Sorry guys. You have brought it on yourself.

At least I will be safe in the knowledge that when my American cousin is supporting England in a Memphis bar while I take the oppositions side we will be safe from the idiots that plague us here. There may be a different set of idiots but that has nothing to do with football... ;-P

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 08 - 03:49 PM

Before anyone says it - Yes I am being a bit harsh on genuine fans. But the policing has to come from within the game and you are the only guys who can do it. Stay away. Don't support them until the hooligan element is gone. Make the people making the money sit up and listen.

Cheers

Dave
(Really wishing that the Reds could celebrate properly)

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: akenaton
Date: 22 May 08 - 03:58 PM

Don't get carried away Davie....It's only a business!

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 May 08 - 04:02 PM

"Do they wave Bibles around, sing Onward Christian Soldiers in the stands" Celtic fans used to sing "Faith of Our Fathers" when it was a game against Rangers. I don't know if they still do.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 08 - 05:30 PM

Love that, ake:-) Can I borrow it?

D.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: GUEST,Respectful
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 07:18 AM

Today's ITN lunchtime news has left me speechless. Drunken British holidaymakers are causing all sorts of problems for the Greek authorities. They are trying to tackle a rise in trouble at a number of resorts. As one Greek official put it "We expect this type of behaviour from visiting British football fans, but now they promote their talents on holiday as well".


Holiday spots on Crete and Zakynthos seem to be the worst. Crimes include drunkenness, GBH, racial violence, damage to property and sexual assaults on local women. Thousands of young Britons descend on the islands during July and August, attracted by cheap drinks and a raucous night-life.

Greek authorities have decided to take a hard line on the revellers in a bid to boost the faltering reputations of some of the holiday resorts. Family holidays have fallen by 80% on the islands.

Officers in Crete say they will arrest tourists they suspect of being very drunk as a pre-emptive strike to stop trouble before it starts. They added, no other nationality are involved in the violence. The resort is popular with French, German and Greek holiday makers.

Why can't our young people respect the laws of the country they are staying in ?

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 07:28 AM

They don't respect the laws at home! One answer would be to stop selling them cheap drinks but, oh no, that would reduce the profits the bars and cafes are making and we can't have that.

Subject: RE: BS: UK football riots. A minority of idiots?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 04:31 PM

The solution is to replace the discos with folk clubs!!