BS: Victory Garden

Subject: BS: Victory Garden
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 04:56 PM

I visited the National Arboretum here in Washington DC last week. For those of you who don't know about it, it's a wonderful park located to the north east of the capitol along New York Ave, Rt. 50 and the Anacostia River.

Currently they have a display about bio-fuel crops covering everything from corn to Canola to saw grass. Considering that they had all of these different crops, about 30 or so, growing in our native soil, I thought about growing a few of them myself. Some of them made excellent ground cover, some were flowering and would look great added to a garden, and some were obviously a crop type plant.

It occurred to me that we, the whole of nation, are crying about the cost of fuel and the cost of food but are doing nothing about it. Then I remembered the Victory Gardens of WWII and thought perhaps if we all planted some of these crops as ground cover, flowers and a small plot garden, with a little direction from the Dept. of Agriculture, we might all together be part of a solution.

I suggested this to a worker there as an addition to the display and was dismissed out of hand. As a singular contributor I understand that I'd never grow enough to make an impact, but with a decent percentage of people encouraged to do so, and a local gathering area for the harvest, I really think we could have a significant impact along with conserving and exploring new technologies.

I'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 05:05 PM

I think it's a wonderful idea.

My grandfather had a BIG garden during the Depression years (and a few after it, too), and that garden provided lots of food. Not only for out family.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 05:13 PM

We have a garden for our own consumption. It's small because we don't have a lot of space for a garden, certainly not for grains or other staples like that. But today, while reading about the effect the flooding in the Midwest is having on food prices, I thought seriously about broadcasting some amaranth seed in the power line cut behind our house for use as a protein food. I don't know if amaranth grows well in this climate, but I think I'll see what I can find out.

One of our neighbors has expanded his kitchen garden into the power line cut. He's calling it his "George Bush garden", because he says George Bush is the reason he needs the garden. He's a Vietnam Vet living on a pension and he can't afford the price of food these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 05:15 PM

Sounds better than spraying nasty pesticides and herbicides just to manicure a residential property.... what waste!

Great idea!

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 05:38 PM

Our veggie garden is 90X35 and we grow:

4 varieties of tomatoes
4 varieties of peppers
2 varieties of cucumber
2 varieties of lettuce
spinich
beets
zucinni
yellow squash
lima beans
roma pole bean
okra
2 varieties of egg plant
potatoes

We freeze and can up just about everything we can and it cuts way into what we would have to spend for food otherwise...

Yeah, okay, we do have alot of room but victory gardens can be grown on a patio ot balcony or on a roof or, or...

B~

p.s. BTW, the National Arboretum is a treat... And thank you Laura Bush for pounding on George to restore some of the funding that Foerge cut...

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 05:42 PM

There's a whole "movement" devoted to organic urban agriculture, the low-volume production of top-quality herbs and vegetables for local restaurants and farmers' markets.

Of course, most home gardeners will always be principally involved in feeding themselves and their families, and that alone cuts costs substantially for the grower's household while having some impact (however minor) on overall demand. But the prospect of basing a small business or second income upon low-volume agriculture is also worth consideration.

In the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, several of the many volunteer planners and archiitects who came to help out suggested that the empty lots in some of the worst-devastated neighborhoods might be used to grow stuff like cilantro and arugula as well as less exotic crops like tomatoes and peppers, celery and basil ~ especially if programs would be enacted to help residents returning to half-empty neighborhoods to buy neighboring lots at reduced prices.

It would then be theoretically possible to "farm" an acre or two, land formerly occupied by long-gone neighbors, and run a little home-based restarrant-supply business.

There is a potentially complementary "slow-food"/local-food movement among forward-looking restaurateurs locally and nationwide, so potential demand should not be a problem.

On the other hand, there has been absolutely no progress on the hoped-for "lot-next-door" purchase program for blighted properties, and if a few returnees have begun turning their backyard vegetable gardens into small commericial ventures, I'm not aware of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 05:54 PM

My garden is much smaller than Bobert's, though I have an area I'll expand to soon (I'm putting in a new bed that I've wanted for a couple of years, and though it might be pretty weedy this summer, it'll be a start). So far we have four types of tomatoes, three types of peppers, three types of squash, eggplant, carrots, green onions, and some herbs. Oh, and a patch of Swiss chard that has wintered over well the last couple of years. I made a big pot of "greens" with it a couple of weeks ago and it was wonderful, but I also sometimes just steam it like spinach, and it is great sliced and put in soup and casseroles like a quiche.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 06:40 PM

We have kind of an awkward place for gardening,(limited sun and space where we need it)but we 'might' consider making it work to offset some costs soon. We don't use a huge amount of veggies, but every little bit can help.

I would bet the Victory gardens idea is already being tried in many places.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 06:44 PM

Carol: If they are big power lines, please make good and sure they haven't used one of the dioxin compounds to defoliate trees. (I'm sure you know about this, but just in case you don't.) That stuff is seriously dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 07:30 PM

To clarify things a bit,

Although I think we do need to cultivate more in the way of edible items to offset the rising cost, I was thinking that this would be a double victory garden, sort of a victory over hunger and a victory over the speculators/oil industry/OPEC, in that some of the plants, in the landscaping as well as the garden, could be turned into bio-fuels. With a local center to take them to we could all be supplying a small percentage of what is needed in our countries daily.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 07:33 PM

My dad had a garden while I was growing up, and I remember planting seeds and picking various veggies. Cucumbers, watermelons, peas, green beans, wax beans, and I can't remember what else. I've only grown tomatoes and some herbs - parsley, thyme, oregano, and a ton of basil. This year I have some lettuces in pots, and I'll plant some Nasturtiums. They aren't very filling, but there's something fun about eating flowers.

When I moved in here, there were loads of wild blackberries and a couple of sickly raspberries. For some reason, all of the blackberry plants in two locations died, but I have raspberries taking over the back yard. Catbirds build their nests in them and yell at me when I get too close. I never really made an attempt to collect the berries but browsed when I was out there. This year will be different.

I don't have the time to properly care for a garden, but we have farm stands and farmers' markets, and I'll try to put some money in their pockets.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 09:16 PM

Beware the wild blackberry bushes!
I learned the hard way that they provide the perfect structure for poison ivy vines! We have several plots of wild blackberries along one of the highways here. We stop to pick them every summer.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: RangerSteve
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 11:09 PM

The nasturtium leaves are also edible. I use them in place of lettuce on sandwiches.   Tomatoes and peppers do well in containers, by the way, in case you don't have a lot of room for a garden.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 11:46 PM

Also, remember that the COST of putting up food should be figured in. To freeze, jar, or can you need HEAT. The food must be blanced, boiled, or pressure canned. This does add to the cost. There is also a LOT of labor involved. If you've never done it you won't believe how much labor it takes. Find someone to help you.

In my town, (which is a BIG gardening town) there is a farmers market, and it makes more sense for ME to go there and buy the fresh, organic stuff just as we need it, and perhaps a bit to put up, than it does to plant a large veg garden for just the two of us.

When the kids were small, we did have a garden, 80'x 80'. We grew everything, and I put it all up. Spent the entire summer watering, weeding, mulching, harvesting, freezing, canning....and by October I was exhausted and sick of veg. If it could be canned/jarred, I did that, if not, I froze it. I know I put up at least 50 pints each (either jarred or frozen) of:

tomato puree, tomato sauce, tomato paste, green beans, yellow beans (wax), broccoli, cauliflower, sweet corn, spinach, summer squash/marrow, several different kinds of cucumber pickles but mainly dill and kosher dill, fruit jelly and jam from wild fruit (elder, sand plum, chokecherry etc), several kinds of peppers (both sweet and hot), potatoes, sprouts, cabbage, 2 kinds of peas (sweet and Oriental sugar pea pods), and the salad stuff like lettuce and radishes that can't be put by.

A successful garden is a LOT of hard work. I have a 'job' now and don't really have the time, but if I have to, I can do it again.

We also seldom bought meat because the Mr is a Hunter and we had wild meat in the freezer. It's not 'free' but is sure cheaper than store bought meat. We always butchered and processed our own wild meat, never took it to a 'plant'. We still do that, don't trust the processing plants to do it properly or give us back the exact animal we killed.

20 years ago, we lived in a place where it didn't take much fuel or ammunition to go kill something, and the State was being generous with permits, so we filled them all. I made all our own ground meat/burger/mince, many different kinds of sausages, both in bulk and stuffed in casings. I still have those recipes if anyone is interested.

I even usually pressure canned/jarred at least one wild critter, deer or 'antelope' in pints for Instant Stew meat, etc. Made jerky out of at least one more, and still had a freezer full of 'fresh' meat. (I did buy chicken...LOL)

Trust me, I have done it and it is a Full Time Job for about 6 mos.

I never did grow 'grain' crops, but we always had a place to buy them whole and in bulk, with grinding facilities available. I think Chiefs' idea of a nation wide co op of bio fuel could work, but it would take a LOT of cooperation and WORK to get it going.

In Wyoming, a lot of farmers are now selling corn to the ethanol plants instead of the feedlots. The ethanol plants pay a higher price. I've not seen rape (rape makes canola oil) growing out west but I have seen amaranth fields, sunflowers and chicory. Seems a lot of the farmers are getting out of human food crops like wheat. Just my take on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 04:09 AM

Well... I tasted your Elderberry Jam and it was DEEEEElicious. Glad you did it.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:34 AM

Yeah, Sorch, having a large veggie garden is a lot of work... And there are expenses, too... We average about 2 hours a day in ours... And that is the two of us so that's like 4 hours a day of work...

But we do get to eat out of it year round... We have allready frozen 6 3/4pound vaccum packs of spinich and when it is thawed next winter it will taste just like it came outta the garden... Yummy... Plau we know what it was grown in and know that there are no chemicals... Just pure yummy spinich... Beets next...

Picked 2 quarts of black raspberries this morning... Yummy... They will go in the freezer, too...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:38 PM

Every summer the nursery near me has a big tree sale in July. It's the hardest time to plant a tree, but it is the time to find out how the fruit is. The peaches are out now, so there is no waiting until July. I'm hoping to find a peach and a pear tree this year. Peaches need more soil preparation and care in this county, but there are some pears that grow great guns. Two of my favorite fruits, and two fruits that retain the pesticides when you get them commercially, so if I can bring them into my organic program, I'll be happy.

BTW--these will go in the back yard, because if you put them in front people WILL enter your yard and trample things and break branches to steal your fruit.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: maire-aine
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:51 PM

My yard also does not get enough sun for a big garden, due to neighboring trees and the placement of my garage. I grow a few heirloom tomatoes just for fun, but usually buy most of my produce from the nearby farm market. The one crop I do grow, is black raspberries. Ooo, they're so good & sweet. Only problem is they're only in for about 2 weeks, usually I can pick the first ripe ones on 4th of July weekend. This year's crop is looking good, because we've had plenty of rain, so the fruit is getting big & juicy. Most of the time, I just pick & eat, so there's never enough left to go in the freezer.

Maryanne

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 03:54 PM

I just remembered something that had bugged the hell out of me. Virginia/West Virginia have a number of very good apple orchards. I have visited them on "pick-your-own" trips and was amazed at the number of apples that were allowed to rot away because they were deemed unfit for human/animal consumption.

Just one look at the bees that were flying in loop de loops and barrel rolls told me all I needed to know about the apples fermenting.

Were I the orchard manager I'd have been running the tractor about picking up these apples (would have made it safer for the pickers, less to slip on and less stinging insects about). Crush them up and let them ferment on their own.

It might not have been drinkable alcohol but it would have run some of the equipment. Anybody know if crab apples can produce applejack?

By the way, thanks for the support, now maybe if I can convince somebody over at the Dept. of Agriculture.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: MarkS
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:09 PM

We are trying a new variety of tomato this year, called Mortgage Lifter. Supposed to be prolific and heavy. Will let you know.

As an aside, growing wild on the manure pile is a plant called Inkberry up north here, but down south is called Poke Salat. Supposed to be edible, but Mrs and I are not brave enough.

Anybody got any experience?

Mark

(with the plant - not the song!)

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: Janie
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 12:08 AM

Pokeweed (Phytolacca americana) is edible when it is very young. I've eaten a lot of it. It is very poisonous once it gets any size to it. You can eat it up to about 6 inches - 9 inches if you are brave - and you have boil it through at least 2 changes of water to leech the toxins out.    At 9 inches, I recommend 3 changes of water.

I like it when it is very young, 3 to 4 inches high. After that, I think it tastes a bit acrid as a stand alone green, but still enjoy it in quiches.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: Janie
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 12:32 AM

Individual urban and suburban gardens where water is an expensive commodity as well as a rationed resource, are the equivalent of throwing money down a rathole. I say that as an avid and experienced gardener who has stopped growing anything edible except for a small cool weather salad garden, when irrigation is not necessary.

Container gardens are a nice touch, and anytime one eats what one grows, it is a satisfying and fulfilling experience. However, it will not put a dent in the annual grocery bill.

Community gardens may be economically viable, if one has the time to travel to them and stay on top of them while working full-time, keeping house and transporting kids to and from school, lacrosse practice, and play dates.

CSA's may make economic sense and are probably the most efficient use of of monetary and natural resources in many parts of the USA at the present time.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: maire-aine
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 12:32 AM

Thanks for the link, Janie. So that's what it looks like. I've had it growing in my yard and thought it was just another weed. It's still a weed, since it's growing where it doesn't belong. But at least I know what it is.

Maryanne

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: Janie
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 01:38 AM

FWIW, Pokeweed is a very persistent, long-lived perennial that readily seeds itself (and is readily seeded by bird poop - they love the berries.) It quickly develops a deep taproot that can become absolutely massive. I strongly recommend digging out seedlings as soon as you recognize them. And dig them out - don't pull. It may take a year or so, depending how deep any broken off roots are in the ground, but any broken-off tips of roots will resprout.

Subject: RE: BS: Victory Garden
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 08:41 AM

I've got about a 1/4 acre back in an opening in the woods that is nothing but pokeweed... I've never eaten it but might try it next year... It's too big now to mess with... BTW, yer 'sposed to remove the stems before boilin' out the poisons...

Yo, Chief,

There are some mighty fine orchards up 'round Gettysburg, too... We used to go up there once a year and buy 3 or 4 different apples to make applesauce... Now that we have moved further south it's too far a drive but we found an orchard in Timberville which is only a half an hour drive so that's our sourrce these days...

B~