BS: McCain... Another lieing president???

Subject: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 05:49 PM

Well, well, well...

Okay, I can uderstand how John McCain could have these little "senior moments" and be confused about stuff like geography and actual events but he has usually, when corrected, makes a joke about it, the adoring press laughs and things are fine...

Hey, I can live with those...

But John McCain is now in the midst of a false ad campiagn about why Obama didn't visit the wounded troops while he was in Germany... The facts are not at all what McCain is saying yet McLiar thinks it's perfectly okay to continue telling the lie as if it was the truth... Haven't we had enough lies from the Bush/Cheney adminstration???

(Source: Washington Post, July 30, 2008, "McCain Charge Against Obama Lacks Evidence" by Michael D, Shear and Dan Balz)

B~

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: MarkS
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 06:20 PM

No matter what we will get a new administration next year, and we can look forward to a new crop of lies.
They are all politicians, aren't they?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 06:29 PM

Well, not really, Mark...

Yeah, it's easy to say that all politicans lie and to some extent many do... But most when caught in the lie say, "Ahhhhh, we must have gotten some bad intellegence" and quit telling the lie... BUsh and Cheney, of course, being the exception...

Now we have McCain, when told that he is wrong, has purdy much said, "I don't care if uit is a lie... I'm going to keep tellin' it..."

That, "my friend", is the kinda stuff that Bush and Cheney have done and these lies have gotten us into the largest foriegn policy blunder maybe in out history...

I think this a serious flaw in our system where when politicans are called on their lies they say "So?"...

That's part of the change that the country needs... More honesty!!!

I can't imagine Obama being caught in a bald faced lie and saying "So???"

B~

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 06:33 PM

This is not really anything new. He's been lying for a very long time.

This video has some very interesting discussion about some of his previous lies...

http://fora.tv/2008/06/12/Robert_Scheer_in_Conversation_with_John_Dean

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 07:54 PM

Too long to load, CarolC...

Can you, in yer own words, ellaborate???

I must confess that I really haven't paid much attention to McCain over the years... Yeah, I think he got shafted by Bush in South Carolina in 2000 but that's about it...

Might of fact, I really wasn't payin' alot of attention to him this year until he started this string of attack ads on Obama over the last month... The one about Obama being responsible to the high gas prices, I think most folks see as purdy stupid...

But this latest one about Obama being some kinda elistist because he didn't see the troops while in Germany seem to be the most negative ad I've seen in years... Then the Post story came out and says it is an ad based on absolutely no truth got me thinkin' that here is this old angry man who wants to be president who is willing to lie as bad as Bush and Cheney to get there???

How sad a little man John McCain must be...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 08:06 PM

"Well, that certainly didnÕt take long. On July 3, news reports said Senator John McCain, worried that he might lose the election before it truly started, opened his doors to disciples of Karl Rove from the 2004 campaign and the Bush White House. Less than a month later, the results are on full display. The candidate who started out talking about high-minded, civil debate has wholeheartedly adopted Mr. RoveÕs low-minded and uncivil playbook.


In recent weeks, Mr. McCain has been waving the flag of fear (Senator Barack Obama wants to ÒloseÓ in Iraq), and issuing attacks that are sophomoric (suggesting that Mr. Obama is a socialist) and false (the presumptive Democratic nominee turned his back on wounded soldiers).

Mr. McCain used to pride himself on being above this ugly brand of politics, which killed his own 2000 presidential bid. But he clearly tossed his inhibitions aside earlier this month when he put day-to-day management of his campaign in the hands of one acolyte of Mr. Rove and gave top positions to two others. The rŽsumŽs of the new teamÕs members included stints in Mr. BushÕs White House and in his 2004 re-election campaign, one of the most negative and divisive in memory.

Almost immediately, the McCain campaign was using Mr. RoveÕs well-honed tactics, starting with an attempt to widen this nationÕs damaging ideological divide by painting Mr. Obama as a far-left kook. On July 18, Mr. McCain even suggested that Mr. Obama is a socialist to the left of the SenateÕs only avowed socialist: Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

Mr. ObamaÕs politics are hardly far-left, and anyone who has spent time in a socialist country knows how ridiculous that label is for any member of Congress. It would be bad enough if Mr. McCain honestly believed what he said, but we find that hard to imagine."

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: GUEST,Fat Lorenzo
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 08:45 PM

You got that right, MarkS.

Put me down as just another nut voting for that other guy they won't let back into Congress--for fear of too much truth telling. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 08:51 PM

Huh???

Pee in the cup...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: GUEST,Morton Grove
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 09:39 PM

I am voting for McCain who just might win. I will not vote for an inexperienced Chicago political wannabe.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 10:27 PM

Obama has told his share of lies.
One is that he was poor in Hawaii.
His stepfather, Lolo Soetaro, a Shell Oil executive for Indonesia and later liason between the Indonesian government oil company and Shell, was extremely well-to-do, and was well able to pay a large settlement to his ex-wife when they divorced.
This paid Barack Obama's fees at Punahou in the 1970s, from age 10, when he left Indonesia for schooling, entering the fifth grade, to graduation at age 18 in 1979; Punahou is one of the most exclusive and expensive private schools (fees now $15725/year) anywhere.
Obama says he had a scholarship, which is a lie. Scholarships are available at Punahou only to descendants of the old missionary families and to those with Hawaiian blood.
Incidentally, the settlement also paid for his mother's expedition through central Asia, and her work on her doctoral dissertation on Indonesian workers.

Obama has frequently exaggerated his roll in legislation in the Senate; see a current thread, American Government Owners' Manual, and its link to "Barack's "Obama-isms," for reference to some of his questionable statements.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:22 AM

Basically they were saying that when McCain went after Boeing, he said it was because he was fighting pork barrel spending, but in reality, the co-chair of McCain's campaign was a lobbyist for Martin Marietta (Lockheed Martin), the company that stood to lose the most if Boeing got the contract for the refueling tankers.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: DougR
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 01:15 AM

Uh, Bobert: McCain ain't president yet. Not 'till November. Then you can call him president.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 02:29 AM

I'd like to see some documentation to support the claim about Obama's mother getting such a large settlement.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: pdq
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 03:41 AM

"Not 'till November. Then you can call him president."

Actually, after Nov.4th McCain will be called "president elect". You can't really call him "president" until later in January.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 04:10 AM

I think Millfield and Eton are considerably more than that.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:43 AM

Looks like the liars are the ones who are spreading the rumor that the only scholarships available for people to go to Punahou are for descendants of missionary families and those with "Hawaiian blood". Here's the financial aid page from the Punahou website. It doesn't say anything at all about there being any restrictions for who can and cannot receive financial aid (other than need), and it does not mention either descendants of missionary families nor people with Hawaiian blood...

http://www.punahou.edu/page.cfm?p=62

I think we can safely say that anything coming from that source on the subject of Obama is highly suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:55 AM

For a Republican smear to be effective though, it doesn't have to be true. Just plausible enough for gullible people who want to believe it, to rationalize and justify their prejudices and vote against the guy (in this election, Obama).

This is page 1 of the Republican play book. It doesn't do a damn thing to stand around wringing hands over it. Obama has to find a way to hit back, hit back hard, and hit back negatively.

Will that destroy his brand? No one, including the Obama camp, knows for sure. But what is known for sure, is if Obama isn't willing to go negative against McCain, hard and fast, he could easily lose in November.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:59 AM

Possibly, but I don't know if one can use any of the metrics of the past to determine what will work this time around. For instance, the Obama people are working very hard to get out the votes of those who are not currently registered to vote. A lot of those people probably don't vote because they are turned off by the negativity in the campaigns. If Obama went negative, he might just end up shooting himself in the foot.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:05 PM

Indeed all Chicago politicians and civil servants need to go.
The same with the inexperienced.

We here at the McCain Institute are drafting a loyalty oath that will identify these "Chicagoans" and the "inexpereinced" and "alien immigrants" for what they are and deal with them appropriatly.

Next, every job appllicant and current job holder in this country will fill out a form developed by Monica Goodling. Thus preserving the great cultural heritage of our great nation.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:07 PM

McCain has been very Teflonesque, and the media seems as terrified of going after him with his war hero status, as they are enthralled by the novelty and celebrity of Obama.

I don't know that the general election voter will be bothered by negative campaigning at all this year. First, everyone knows that negative campaigning gets used because it is very effective. Second, enough political strategists know that while voters say they dislike negative campaigning, when they step into the booth, they vote based upon how effective it has been. Third, and this is one I hope I am right about, Obama playing hardball might be just the bullseye he needs to target voters who are unsure of his leadership and character.

In tough times, people want tough leaders, not celebrity arugula eaters.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:13 PM

The Obama people have conducted a very effective campaign so far. Far more effective than McCain's even despite the teflon coating the media has given him. While I am not an Obama supporter myself (although I may vote for him in November), I don't think I would try to second guess their strategy overall.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 12:41 PM

The job of any campaign is to afford and promote credible advertising.

All advertising lies. Sometimes in a big way and sometimes by ommission.

Effective Advertising must be informative and stir emotions to work on both hempispheres of the brain.

The advertising campaign by McCain faces an uphill battle since he must persuade the common people to vote against their best interest.
He must encourage people to buy what will harm them the most while helping a small but powerful ruling class. Still such ad campaigns have succeeded time and again.

We all expect the lie and when one is identified we quibble over it for a week or two and forget about it.

The best lie is one that sticks. If it survives public repetition for more than 2 months, it has a life of its own and gains true power over thoughts and action. When the lie draws defensive reaction it is sure to succeed.

So choose the lies that you fancy most but remember deep down they are all merely lies.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 04:03 PM

Punahou has long had a policy of admitting people of all races; Sun Yat-sen was a student at Iolani* (another expensive private Honolulu school) and Punahou, there have been many others of different races.

Punahou is extremely secretive about their scholarships, which had to be opened following non-discrimination decisions applying to all schools in the U.S. I have found a few outside scholarships at Punahou, but currently their top is only $2000 per year, a fraction of the total. There may be others that are unlisted. Punahou's endowment currently is over $100 million (1979 Reunion statement); an article by Austin Murphy, CNN, estimates that it exceeds $180 million. The Endowed Scholarship Fund (currently about $40 million) lists recipients from 1936, but Obama's name in not among them:
www.punahou.edu/page.cfm?p=589
Amounts given are not stated.

Military Service families stationed in Hawaii who wished to enrol their children in schools better than those near the bases have long complained about the exclusivity of Punahou, Iolani and similar schools there and their inability to afford the fees. Only those sporting the eagle or better could pay the fees.

Punahou does not disclose any data on income backgrounds of students, proportion of fees paid by scholarships, proportion of endowed or other data on instructors pay, etc.

Lolo Soetoro also paid the fees for his daughter Maya (Soetoro-Ng) at Punahou (she teaches at a private girls school in Oahu, and part-time at U Hawaii (Manoa) where she obtained her doctorate). Soetoro is remembered by former colleagues at Shell as a dedicated golfer and party man, with several club memberships.

His well-to-do Kenyan grandfather was able to send and support his son at U. Hawaii (Manoa). Obama's supporters push the goat-farmer story.
Obama's poor boy stance is a direct reflection of a number of politicians in history who pushed their supposed backwoods log cabin upbringing in order to appeal to non-affluent voters.
-------------------------

*Iolani, another exclusive Hawaiian School, a late-comer (1863) compared to Punahou, current tuition $14,900/year kindergarten-highschool, plus a supplement from their endowment, total about $21,000/year. Punahou and Iolani are just two of the expensive private schools in Hawaii.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 04:59 PM

Is there any documentation for the assertion that Lolo Soetoro paid all this money, or do we have to accept it on faith?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 05:20 PM

The one and only job of a campaign is to get the candidate elected.

Obama ran a great primary campaign, but he hasn't been doing that great in the general election so far, according to US polls--especially the newest ones that show Obama slipping and McCain gaining.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 06:06 PM

Divorce settlements may be part of a court proceeding, in which case some details become public, but many are uncontested private agreements that remain confidential. I admit that I have no firm data, only statements by friends who were in Hawaii at the time.

From what I know of remuneration at his level, Soetoro's income from Shell would have been high for services liasing with Pertamina, whose assets Shell once owned, in addition to his direct recompense from the state-owned Indonesian company, but it would have been considerable. Soetoro presented its face at international meetings.

There is a lot of garbage on the net concerning Obama's religious training. Soetoro was something of a free-thinker, and loved the animistic stories of his homeland, which he would tell to Barack and anyone who was interested in the old tales. As a pupil in Indonesia, Barack would be registered as Muslim, the religion of his (step)father, but at the private schools he attended, pupils of Christian parentage and others were also enrolled, and religion was not a dominant subject, as it might be at madrassa-type schools.
Assertions that Soetoro was a rabid Muslim and Obama was Muslim are gross distortions.

Looking back at the Punahou endowed scholarship fund, the list appears to be donors, not recipients- sorry for the error. I can find no accurate data on scholarship recipients.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 06:36 PM

So what we are being presented as fact is, in actuality, nothing more than unsubstantiated hearsay (gossip), and could quite possibly be (more than likely is) lies. So noted.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 06:46 PM

>>I admit that I have no firm data, only statements by friends who were in Hawaii at the time.

Lets look for some credibility here. Your friends lived on Oahu, Hawaii at the same time that Obama went to school there and they somehow remember the circumstances under which this one young man went to school? Did they know he would run for president? Were they on the board of the school?

I'll leave it to you to examine the credibility of these friends of yours but allow me to note that I was recently introduced to a new term which was "Political buddy" a friend of ours told us that a "Political buddy" had told her that his "friends" in Kenya had written him a letter which avowed, among other things that Obama had conspired with his "tribe" to become President and take over America for Islam.

"Political buddies" can only be trusted to tell you politically self serving things.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: GUEST,Mark T.
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 06:56 PM

Yes Mark I quite agree. Pick your poison, but they're all pack of lying scoundrels.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 07:37 PM

So it seems that some people imply that Barack is a Manchurian Candidate of some kind.
What kind? is he an Iranian candidate of Saudi candidate?

Any long winded story that can include hot words like Muslim names and countries asks the reader to draw a conclusion of the Muslim connection.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 07:46 PM

"negative campaigning" seems to be a term with a number of meanings.

It seems to be used to refer to telling truths that reflect badly on a candidate; on the other hand it also seems to be used to refer to telling lies and distortions of the truth that would reflect badly on a candidate if they were true, in the expectation that there will be people gullible enough to believe them.

There is a big difference between those two things.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 08:56 PM

If you freeze frame the latest McCain ad you will see Paris Hilton ON TOP of Barack Hussein Obama.


never mind the racist white women black man implication, or the current Paris Hilton oral sex videos on the web, the fact that she is on top is PROOF that Barack does not engage in missionary positions and is a sexual deviant.

Ben Stein says "I applaud this ad since it shows that McCain is a average common man",

(when compared to the hollywood muslim elitist Obama?)

As ads go it is one of the best ads for McCan't.

McCan't had another skin cancer biopsy this week. It was also mentioned that in reference to the Keating scandal, John still ssuffers from corruptile dysfunction.
Afterall it doesn't mention his name, policies or qualifications even once.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:07 PM

Actually, GUEST,DV, the Obama camp is doing a great job with the general cmapaign... Don't get bogged down with polls and ads and fluff... Campaigns are won at the grassroots level and you can take it to the bank that Obama is out organizing McCain in states where Repubs haven't had to work...

Might of fact, I have just gotten home from an Obama organizational meeting in Page County, Va. where the Dems generally just roll over... But Obama has a paid staffer assigned to this county... This ain't never happened and its happening in rural counties all accross the country...

So, believe it or not, Obama is doing just fine... Same stuff that won Iowa is being duplicated everywhere... McCain is hoping that he can beat down Obama with negative ads but he ain't spending the money in the rural precincts and this is gonna cost McCain big time... Yeah, Obama won't carry Page County but if we get 40% and other rural Virginia counties get 40% then Richmond and Northern Virginia will take Obama over the top...

Same with a lot of former red states...

And we also have Howard Dean to thank for the 50 state strategy that was so successfull in '06...

And all this from a Greenie for Obama...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:25 PM

take two old white men while you're at it.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:32 PM

Stevie:

You are really, really, missing the picture, pal.


Oh, and here's another cirdular:

Last month, conservatives led by Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh sent over a million messages to Congress calling for offshore oil drilling. Then John McCain joined the push for drilling. Now he's running ads saying Obama's responsible for high gas prices, because Obama's energy plan focuses on alternative energyÑnot drilling.

It's a scam. Offshore drilling won't save any money at the pumps for years (although it will boost oil company profits). But some senior Democrats are showing signs of caving under all this pressureÑand polls show McCain's attacks may be hurting Obama.

Here's the truth: Right now, progressives are losing this argument. We all need to fight back. If we don't, we could end up losing the election AND the fight for clean energy.

We've got a simple, powerful new ad that tells the truth about the Republicans' drilling scam.

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3996&id=13370-137503-JHVSMZx&t=4

McCain is so focused on drilling because he knows people are anxious enough about energy costs to make this the issue of the 2008 elections. When you're worried about how you're going to afford the drive to work, or how you're going to get your kids to school, and you have no other short-term optionsÑyou'll be open to anything that might help. McCain is preying on that anxiety by offering offshore drilling as a quick fix.

Offshore drilling won't fix gas prices or our dependence on foreign oil. There simply isn't enough oil offshore or in the Arctic, and it will take up to a decade to get what little is there. Even then, we would only save 3 or 4 cents a gallon!1

Offshore drilling is a gimmickÑbut it will be the gimmick that works for John McCain if we don't push back now...."

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 09:57 PM

You're right, Amos. It would be hard to fault Obama for gas shortages. I've never seen so much hot air generated from one source in my life.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 10:15 PM

Sorry Bobert, but I don't share your confidence. I am really concerned about Obama losing, and think it is very possible.

I'm hoping otherwise, obviously. But I'm really disappointed with the way he isn't responding effectively to this series of attack ads. He is looking like a punching bag a la 1988 or 2004. Two of the sleaziest, dirtiest campaigns of modern times.

I know a lot of people think taking the high road in the campaign is the way to go. But the reality is, it doesn't work when your opponent has no sense of decency and honor.

Heck, even Gandhi figured that out while fighting the Brits.

Kerry made this mistake too (not fighting back and hitting hard).

Like I said, could be deja vu all over again if Obama doesn't get scared straight here, so to speak.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Big Mick
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 10:29 PM

As a person of some experience in these areas, let me just say to DV that his concern is well placed. You have Rove's people doing the play by play and they are the best at dirty politics. I was very pleased with the first response ad that Obama ran, in which he dismissed the attack ad as dirty politics of the same old variety, and then moved on to his own message. He needs to stay the course on this type of thing to draw a clean break from the politics of the past. The one thing that DV needs to reassure himself about is that we are a very long way from November, there will be ups and downs, and the election is Obama's to lose, despite what the sleight of handers and the Swift Boaters would have you believe. What folks like me look at is the long term, perceptual campaign. It is clear that Obama is walking a very clear path designed to allay the concerns about his experience. He is not letting the frenzied rhetoric from either side sway his path.

Make no mistake about it. The Republicans, despite the spin, are completely freaked out by how well the European and Middle East trip went. McCain dared him, McCain chastised him, and Obama called the bet and raised. The Republicans then tried to play the "he's campaigning for German votes" card, and Obama came right back and went to work on domestic policy. The key to looking Presidential, and to building confidence, is for this young man to keep a steady hand on the helm, continue to refine and develope his message, take a thoughtful approach on his policies without letting the Republican spinmeisters goad him into thrashing, and use very good timing and very good judgement in selecting his running mate and potential cabinet members. This is just a hunch I have, but there is a very good possibility he picks a former Hilary supporter (maybe a Debbie Stabenow) to pick up the Clinton support.

Speaking of the Clintons. That is the one area that I am concerned with. He must settle this out, and get them involved in a real way.


All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 11:06 PM

I agree with Amos that offshore drilling in the Arctic, or off the East and Gulf coasts, won't fix the problem- estimates are pie in the sky figures, and even if there is a fair amount, it will be ten years before its effect becomes a factor. This has been gone over in several threads. McCain is misinformed, and needs to study up on resource industries as a whole.
I hold no brief for either candidate, both grasp at whatever will give the public hope.
------------------------------

Hawaiians know a great deal about their private schools, and the fight to get into the best- contacts- their ohana- are invaluable in their future lives. In National assessments, many students in public schools are below national averages. Overall, only 21% of 8th graders are considered proficient in math and 20% in reading. National Assessment of Education Progress.

When a claim looks wrong- and Obama's does- questions arise and the gossip flows, the claims are examined and resentment that their kids didn't get a 'scholarship' to Punahou or Iolani re-surfaces. And in Oahu, everyone knows about everyone else. A recent item in the Advertiser aired a complaint by the man who was captain of the Punahou basketball team of which Obama was a second-stringer, upset that Obama was talking about facing discrimination at the school. He said that of the starting five, 3 were part Hawaiian or Hawaiian-Chinese, and one was a Filipino, he was the only white on the squad.
Although Blacks are only 2% of the population, only 30% claim that they are white, most being Chinese, Japanese, Hawaiian or Rainbow as they call themselves.

The best most parents there can do is pay the much smaller fees at the Kamehameha schools, which afford advantages because they are the largest landholder in Hawaii, have an endowment in the neighborhood of $8-10 Billion, and state of the art campuses- but enrollment is limited and places are fought for (3500 places, kindergarten-grade 12 at their 160 acre campus in Honolulu, but there are other schools in their system, on Hawai'i and Maui, and they have arrangements that provide off-campus resources to some 20,000 students).

For current information on public schools in Hawaii,
see www.honolulumagazine.com/Honolulu-Magazine/May-2008/Grading-the-Public-Schools508/

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 08:46 AM

Well, yeah, the Rovish tactics of McCain will have their effect for awhile but timing is everything and McCain is going to puncg himself out long before the election... He is wasting money and punches right now..

McCain mistakenly thinks that negative attack ads will trump good organizing... Doesn't work that way... McCain had better get to work at the basics...

(But, Bobz, McCain doesn't have the money or structure to mount a grassroots campaign...)

Well, I guess that's why we are seein' "Plan B"...

Look, folks, I'm not guarenteein' an Obama win because there are a certain number of folks who won't vote for him because he is a Democrat, or because he is black, or, or... But I will say that Obama is running a model campaign at all levels... Very disciplined... Very focused... And very organized... And he has an army of very smart people assigned to go into areas and do some serious community organizing...

The guy who is heading up the Virginia, Mitch Stewart, is the same guy who headed up the Iowa campaign and we know what happened there...

Now, here's my pitch... If you are concerned that Obama might loose then give up 3 measly hours a week to do voter registartion, canvassing, letter writing between now and NOvemeber and get one other person to step up to do it and guess what??? You'll increase Obama's chances come November... I guarentee it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 12:07 PM

I am very familiar with the way gossip works in isolated communities... and of the horrendous damage it can and does to, often to people who don't deserve it. And the thing about gossip is that, as often as not, there is no truth to it whatever. One can say about Obama, "the gossip in Hawaii is that his schooling was paid for by his step father". One cannot say "Obama's schooling was paid for by his step father". At least one can't say that and know that it is the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 12:19 PM

Okay, I've gone up through the thread and I'm obviously missing something. Why in the world would anybody care if Obama's stepfather paid for his schooling?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 12:22 PM

Bobert, I don't care enough to work for Obama or the party.

Sorry, but I don't find anything either of them are up to as being worthy of sacrificing my time for, especially when I'm already committed to volunteering elsewhere.

Besides, my volunteer gigs actually make a difference, unlike working for the political hacks & parties, where it is SOS.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: pdq
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 12:25 PM

Rigs,

It probably goes to the point about truthfulness if he has been claiming that he won a full scholarship to this very expensive school, when, in reality, his step-father paid for it.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 12:46 PM

(A.) "I am very concerned about Obama losing"

(B.) "I don't care enough for Obama..."

Come on, DV... You can't have it both ways... My gut feeling is that "A" is how you feel but when called to task to pledge 3 hours a week you aren't ready to do that... Okay, I can accept that... Not worth the sacrifice (time), I don't buy...

I have a 17 acre farm to keep maitained, plus a 200 year old hotel I'm am project manager of a complete renovation... Plus, I also have a band and gigs and all so, geeze... "Not ready", "Ain't into that stuff", "Too lazy" I can accept... "Not worth the sacrifice" I don't buy...

And for the record, this is the 1st Dem I have actively worked for since Bobby Kennedy and I have also voted for Nader every time he has run... Hopefully you'll come along but if you don't, hey, that's okay, too... Just be sure to vote.. Okay???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Amos
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 01:23 PM

Aboslutely.


A

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 02:16 PM

Yes of course Q there are what? A half a million people in Oahu, Of course every one knows everybody's business. Especially who went to what high school and how. That would be an easy thing to track.

Are there no academic scholarships at these schools? You know, scholarships for very very very smart kids who get near perfect grades. Most exclusive schools do have them. Is it not possible that Obama got the scholarship because he was smart?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 02:25 PM

It's a little hard to believe, because if he was smart then, what happened to him in the interim?

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: PoppaGator
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 02:50 PM

Speaking from my own experience, you can get a "full" scholarswhip and attend a school you and your family could never otherwise afford, and still need additional money.

If Obama's stepdad was indeed a highly-compensated employee of an oil company ~ and I have no reason to doubt that, even though I never heard about it elsewhere ~ an academic scholarship would probably have been partial, due to the lack of documented financial "need." In such circumstances, the academic scholarship is (a) an honor and (b) a proportionally-appropriate financial break for the family, lessening but not eliminating expenses.

If young Barack was awarded such a need-based academic scholarship, but nowadays implies that is was "full," in turn implying a less-than-affluent background, I suppose that might justifiably be characteried as an untruth-by-omission.

Pretty small stuff compared to the multiple outright lies being promulgated on a daily basis by his opponents.

Subject: RE: BS: McCain... Another lieing president???
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Aug 08 - 03:10 PM

Hasn't been all that long that Obama was paying off student loans unless, of course, he made that up and in that case I'm sure John McNasty's folks would have allready founf it out and made a big deal about it so we can assume that if he had student loans then he wasn't no silver spooner...

B~