BS: Troopergate, anyone?

Subject: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 08:38 PM

It seems that the investigation of Sarah Palin and the Monaghan firing isn't going to be released to the public as promised. On t'other hand, she tells us she's innocent (which is, presumably, why she's tried to hard to get the investigation shut down.) And it was initiated by a Republican state legislature, and conducted by a Republican-dominated committee.

What's wrong here?

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 08:39 PM

I've been following the case on some Alaska web sites.
Yes, it was Republicans in Alaska who started the investigation. They've been complaining that the McCain campaign arrived and began to interfere with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 08:54 PM

There are two investigations involved. One is a bipartisan one that was begun before McCain tapped her; she was on record as saying she would cooperate fully with it. The other one is one that she is more comfortable with- they are her own people.

After MCain's anointing, she began backing and filling and started claiming that the investigation was biased and unfair and detrimental to her political hopes. Her (ha! Not our?) Attorney General let members of staff and family - seven of them - know honoring supoenas was a matter of desire. Strangely enough, they all opted not to honor them.

The investigation done by her own people has exonerated her; the bipartisan investigation has now completed its task and was planning to release its findings this month. It appears now that they may wait until after the election.

And the race goes on...

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:01 PM

Breaking News on CNN
The Legislature found that she abused her power as governor.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:03 PM

Monegan says, "I feel vindicated."

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:03 PM

A link, a link, my Kingdom for a link!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:04 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/10/palin.investigation/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:04 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/10/palin.investigation/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:05 PM

Thanks, Alice. I'm proud of them. Kim Elton, in particular. He's a local 'boy' and he does a good job.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:07 PM

Abuse of power as governor may be an impeachable offense, but is not necessarily criminal. Ebbie, do you know if in Alaska, it is an impeachable offense?

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:20 PM

From Reuters:

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (Reuters) - An Alaska ethics inquiry found that Gov. Sarah Palin, the U.S. Republican vice presidential candidate, abused the power of her office by dismissing the state's public safety commissioner, a report released on Friday said.

The investigation centered on whether the firing of Walt Monegan, the state's public safety commissioner, was linked to Palin's personal feud with a state trooper, Michael Wooten, who was involved in a contentious divorce with the governor's sister.

The report, written by Steve Branchflower, a retired state prosecutor hired by lawmakers to conduct the inquiry, said Monegan's refusal to fire Wooten was not the sole reason he was dismissed but was likely a contributing factor.

The Alaska scandal known locally as "Troopergate" gained national attention after Palin was selected to be Sen. John McCain's running mate.

The McCain-Palin campaign has attacked the investigation as a partisan effort led by supporters of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and said the public safety commissioner was dismissed because of poor performance.

(Reporting by Yereth Rosen; Editing by Daisuke Wakabayashi and Peter Cooney)

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:26 PM

The finding is the "impermissable pressure was placed on subordinates" advanced by the governor, Todd Palin, and governor's staff pressure was placed repeatedly on Monegan and that was the abuse of her power.

The investigation pointed out that she dismissed her security, so the basis for her idea that Wooten was a threat to her family did not make sense. If he really was a threat, then she would not have dismissed her security.

Details of the report will be interesting to see as they come out.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:29 PM

Walt Monegan will be interviewed live on Rachel Madow show now.
Link to video clips:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 09:42 PM

Link to the report:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/10/troopergate-report-full-t_n_133806.html



From Bloomberg
Violation of the ethics act could result in sanctions, such as a fine, by a state ethics board, lawmakers said.

Members of the Legislative Council voted 12-0 to release the report even though there wasn't agreement on the findings, lawmakers said.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 11:20 PM

Interesting, innit, how ever since Nixon the GOP has been trying to claim that the Executive Branch can do no wrong? And that the Republican-dominated state legislature is somehow in cahoots with Obama to persecute poor Sarah?

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Oct 08 - 11:39 PM

This turn of events should give John McCain a new insight into the US economy, seeing as how both it and his campaign are now equally in the toilet.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 12:25 AM

It's so stupid of them to cry foul when it was a bipartisan committee who found she abused her powers. One of the things they cited was her letting Todd use her office, telephone, and contacts to harass other workers about the BIL they were trying to get fired.

Isn't there a law about running for office if you're a slimeball who has abused your powers, etc.? If there isn't, there oughta be, esp. if oyu all incite hate speech! Maybe Hugh Hefner would like her to replace his last bunny.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Deckman
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 02:55 AM

Early on I predicted that "troopergate" would rise up and bite her in the ass! OUCH!

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 09:11 AM

The idiot/moron had every reason to be fired, and if your relation's child was sprayed with mace, by a stupid, drunken cop, and he was a subordinate, you'd do the same thing!!...fire his sorry ass..and right now!!!
Much ado about absolutely nothing!!!..Being whipped up, because of sorry politics....Jeeez, get over it.
But, I guess, one thing......she is more interesting, and seems to garner more attention, than McCain, or Obama-yo-mama,..the two criminals running for president!!

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 09:17 AM

GfS - Yeah, you're probably right about that, but there's a right and a wrong way to do it. Sarah Palin tried to take short cuts, probably with good reasons, but she shouldn't have done that as governor.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 09:28 AM

Yeah Rig, you might be right...she should have had HIM arrested and thrown in the can, for assault on a minor, and HIS abuse of power under color of authority!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 09:31 AM

Yeah, but now that she's learned that lesson, she'll go on to make a great Vice President.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 09:33 AM

Is Rezco blowing the whistle on Oblabbo??

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CamiSu
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 09:38 AM

If that were happening to a child there would be charges being filed. Firing his superior is certainly the wrong way to go about it, and puts some doubt into the whole mess. Seems more like solving the problem the way she wanted to because she could do. Abuse of power and then dissembling about it.

And if she is more interesting, it must be in the way badly behaving celebrities are interesting, and I don't find such people terribly interesting.

CamiSu

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 09:44 AM

From: CamiSu
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 09:38 AM

"....it must be in the way badly behaving celebrities are interesting, and I don't find such people terribly interesting."

CamiSu

I find the candidates pretty f*****g boring, myself. They are bullshit artists, and the public is their canvas.....but you love it that way!

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 09:58 AM

The headlines all read "ABUSE OF HER POWERS AS GOVERNOR" but the McCain Campaign finds solace (if that's the appropriate word) in the bipartisan committee's other finding that as Governor she could fire her public safety commissioner at will, no particular reason being required.

So I would conclude the findings are embarrassing but not impeachable. However, the findings also undercut Palin's "moral authority" to criticize Obama. Tough titty!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 10:07 AM

She committed abuses of power, not because she fired Monegan. Not even because of the way she fired Monegan. She had every right to do that, and the report says so unequivocally. She abused the public trust, and committed abuses of power because she used her official capacity as governor to apply pressure to state employees for personal gain, in particular, in allowing her husband to use her office and state resources in order to apply pressure to state employees for personal gain, which is against Alaska law (the personal gain being revenge in a family dispute).

They are saying that had she really been concerned about her safety and the safety of her family, she wouldn't have discontinued her personal security detail.

This debunks many of the claims being made by the Palins and being repeated by people like one of the posters in this thread...

http://www.andrewhalcro.com/comment/reply/1028

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 10:15 AM

...and it's probably not an impeachable offense, but it does make it impossible for Palin to position herself as an ethical and honest politician, a "new" politician, while making accusations about Obama's trustworthiness.

It is also possible that there can be some consequences for her officially as governor, and it could effect her ability to get elected for another term as governor, should she not become vice president.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 10:30 AM

Just for the record: It was not mace the trooper shot his stepson with, GtS. Let's keep it factual.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:05 AM

To set the record straight:

See and hear Trooper Wooten's interview on CNN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXj_xxRr50E

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:12 AM

ohhhhh SO SORRY....HE TASERED HIM!!! He was being thoughtful by not using mace??...so he used a taser???????????????????????????...on a ten year old child??????????!!!!!!!! He should be in jail!...and the huge crime of talking about a family involved matter with your husband????? String her up and crucify her!! This is absolutely MORONIC!!!!!!!!!! ...and so is anyone making such a big f*****g issue of it!!!
!

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:13 AM

Wooten's dad addresses what happened to his son in Alaska.
The moose hunt? Sarah's sister Molly had the moose tag, her husband at the time, Wooten, shot the moose, took it to Sarah Palin's father, who cut it up and gave shares of the moose to the family (including Sarah and Todd). Wooten says he did not know it was illegal to shoot the moose for Molly.

You tube interview of trooper Wooten's father:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voN0R8zuVeU

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:15 AM

Watch the videos.

When you were a kid did you ever put a flashlight battery to your tongue? That's what Wooten's son wanted to experience and did. Was it dumb, yes. Was it really being 'tasered'? NO.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:15 AM

"Wooten says he did not know it was illegal to shoot the moose for Molly."

Or, that it was wrong, stupid, or illegal to taser a child....

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:20 AM

If Wooten should have been in jail, there are legal ways of accomplishing that. Breaking the law and abusing the public trust wasn't the right way for Palin to deal with that issue. But what it shows us is that Palin is not the kind of politician she wants us to believe she is.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:20 AM

Was it legal or illegal to shoot the moose???...was not knowing(which is bullshit} excuse for breaking the law??....that a cop really DID know about??? Come on??????????? Betcha' dollars for doughnuts he's arrested poachers for the same thing! This is politically spun nonsense!

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:22 AM

We have courts for dealing with people who break the law. It's not the governor's job to dispense justice. That's what the courts are for.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:24 AM

Wooten's behavior was dealt with through the proper channels and he is remorseful. The case was closed but the Palin's wanted to get their personal grudge involved in politics. Guest, you're barking up the wrong tree. Wooten paid the price for what he did. Now Palin needs to take responsibility for what she did wrong, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:50 AM

Politicians in power tend to be arrogant. That's a fact. NOT an excuse.
If a governor (or vice-president or president) can't be bothered with obeying the laws--and this includes ignoring subpoenas and using the power of the office the browbeat others for personal or political reasons--he/she should be impeached.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 12:00 PM

"ohhhhh SO SORRY....HE TASERED HIM!!! He was being thoughtful by not using mace??...so he used a taser???????????????????????????...on a ten year old child??????????!!!!!!!! He should be in jail!...and the huge crime of talking about a family involved matter with your husband????? String her up and crucify her!! This is absolutely MORONIC!!!!!!!!!! ...and so is anyone making such a big f*****g issue of it!!!" Guest

lol This reminds me mightily of when my brother in law railed at his wife about the dangerous stupidity of something she had done. "You could have been killed! We wouldn't have known where to look for you! What would you think if one of our kids did that!" On and on

"If I did that, you'd never hear let me hear the last of it!" he said.

She said, Well, what about you? Are you going to let me hear the last of it?

He said, primly, Didn't say a word.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 12:22 PM

I have to say, Wooten definitely comes across as the more sympathetic character in all of this.

The Palins and their surrogates are making it look like Wooten tasered his stepson in anger, rather than what happened, which is that the kid kept pestering Wooten to let him find out what it felt like, and Wooten only using a training taser when he obliged. It was a pretty stupid thing to do, but it's incredibly dishonest and a character assassination to make it look like it was done in an abusive manner.

And the moose thing, also. Wooten's wife at the time (Sarah Palin's sister) had the license to take a moose. A moose was taken, but it was Wooten who fired the shot. That may not be legal, but it's hardly the same thing as poaching, and I can imagine that even a trooper might not know the legality in such a circumstance. And if Palin really thought that Wooten should be punished for doing that, she wouldn't have helped him eat the moose, and then wait three years to seek justice.

It looks to me like Sarah and Tod Palin thought that Sarah's getting elected governor meant that they could behave like little emperors, and everyone had to bow down to them and submit to whatever they wanted. That's definitely not someone I want serving as vice president or president of this country. We've had too many of those already.

The more I learn about both Sarah and Todd Palin, the more slimy they appear.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 03:37 PM

Can you imagine Todd First Dude Palin working behind the scenes of Vice President Palin (or, horrors, President Palin) like he has done in the Alaska governor's office? yikes

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 03:58 PM

Hoefully, she'll get elected so we can find out. It certainly beats having a White House being run by Tony Rezko from prison.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 04:08 PM

Rig-
Do you really want to find out? I think we've had enough of unlawful, arrogant Veeps over the past eight years. Or did you like Cheyney?

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 05:19 PM

"run by Tony Rezko" - Rig, do you have your tinfoil hat on? Maybe you need to make it a double layer of tinfoil.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Oct 08 - 09:25 PM

They're able to get heroine and crank into prison; they ought to be able to get instructions out.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 01:02 AM

"heroine? heroine? My, my, times have changed. Purdy soon everybody will be trying to get in.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 01:03 AM

Whoops!

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:33 AM

Sometimes I get the impression that somebody around here is practicing to be a cartoon.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:36 AM

Look, I'm not a supporter of McCain/Palin...but the trooper gate nonsense never can of will rise to Rezko, Raines, Howard, Johnson Obama, Barney Frank, and Dodd,Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, Acorn and all the crap that goes with it...if you're going to ride a high horse, ride it all the way. By the way, there is also McCain/Keating thing that got swept under the rug, as well.
Don't you ju8st love these guys???

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:45 AM

Doesn't matter what it will or won't rise to. People can decide for themselves whether or not they want someone who abuses their power in office and violates the public trust to be their next vice president and possibly president. Stuff like that actually matters, as we have learned from people like Richard Nixon and Dick Cheney.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 02:47 AM

And by the way, there have not been any accusations against Obama in connection with Tony Rezko.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:02 AM

And by the way, there have not been any accusations against Obama in connection with Tony Rezko


oh yeah???????...and the others, too?????...but it wouldn't bother you in the least anyway. Your blind support of this guy, is not based on anything..but blindness......(Perception Dysfunction)

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:08 AM

No, I actually am still a Kucinich supporter. But I also am campaigning against McCain. And to do that, I find it useful to counter the lies that McCain supporters (like the above poster) are so liberally spreading around about Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:25 AM

Wow!..you are for Kucinich?? So you must see through Obama's bullshit, too!....ok..

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 06:08 AM

What lives some people lead. tazer guns and taking mooses...!
they don't have stuff like that on Due South.

Do you take this moose to be your lawful wedded.....

Vice President though? Second in charge of the world...you can't be serious.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 08:18 AM

Most former Presidents have been more intent on taking out the inhabitants of other countries than on taking out moose!!

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 08:36 AM

I wouldn't take a moose out to a film or for a dinner date unless it wore lipstick.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 10:02 AM

That's rank speciesism, Richard.
..................

One odd thing that's emerged is this law in Alaska that even if you've got a licence to murder a moose, it becomes a crime if you have your husband or wife pull the trigger for you. Surely that goes clean against the institution of marriage, and the principle that husband and wife are one person, and undermines the entire institution of marriage?

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 10:44 AM

In actuality, McGrath, you can shoot a moose or catch a salmon or halibut for someone else (at least, if you yourself already have a license in your own right) but you have to have a 'proxy' license. It's done all the time in Alaska for people who are housebound.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 10:54 AM

In an Alaska radio interview, Palin asserts that up is down and black is white. She says she is very pleased to be cleared of any legal wrong doing (when she was not) and calls it a partisan circus when it was 10 Republicans and 4 Democrats who made up the Legislative council, and that calling Monegan a "rogue" is a GOOD thing.
"Palin: Rogue isn't a negative term"

At one point, the radio interviewer has to ask her, "Have you READ the whole report?"

Radio interview transcript here:
Through the Looking Glass With Sarah Palin.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:08 AM

From the mudflats of Alaska,
"If you want to read Lisa Demer's full account, and hear the interview in the Governor's own voice: Click here   That way you can just, you know, hear her talkin' to the people, and bein' what she is, also, and gettin' her statement out there and rufflin' feathers so as to serve the people of Alaska there also."

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:11 AM

In any event, it doesn't look like much of anything will become of it!

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:20 AM

Well, maybe impeachment in Alaska will come of it, or at least the downfall of her career according to the way Alaskans are now turning against her. Guess you think that isn't "very much".

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:28 AM

Well, I'm not in Alaska, but I heard last night that her approval ratings have dropped from 82% to 80%. Not much of a format for impeachment. And once the campaign is over, she'll either be back there to shore up her support, or she'll be in Washington, and Alaska will have a new governor anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:36 AM

Out of interest....who are the other famous Alaskans?

apart from Baked Alaska.....

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 12:50 PM

Baked Alaska- works for me.

How many "famous" people do you know, weelittledrummer, who come from a town of a half million people?

I love living in Alaska but she has unique problems. So many people come north because of Alaska's mystique of the "last frontier", a vast place where you can do what you want and no government will bother you, a place where you can hide yourself in the wilderness, build yourself a cozy shack and get away from people, a place where you can live off the land and sea, a place where you don't need money or have to deal with any of the corruptions that modern people accept.

Then they come north - and find it is not true.

But they stay on- and they vote for people they think are like them. We have voted in some real oddballs.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 01:17 PM

In the recent poll in Alaska on Palin's approval rating, Rig, it has dropped lower than that among Alaskans. She had astronomically higher approvals because people hated the "other guys" so much. Now that she has revealed more of her embarrassing self, Alaskans are coming out against her.
Reported in the Anchorage Daily News:

Oct 10
"the same poll places Gov. Sarah Palin's approval rating in Alaska at about 62 percent. That's based on a survey of 500 likely Alaska voters.

Anchorage pollster Ivan Moore released new results this week too, including similar approval numbers for Palin, which he says are slowly falling.

Her positive-to-negative numbers dropped 3 percentage points in the past two weeks, to 65 percent favorable and 30 percent unfavorable, Moore wrote.

That's compared with 68-27 in late September and 82-13 just after McCain chose her as his running mate. "

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:18 PM

How many "famous" people do you know, weelittledrummer, who come from a town of a half million people?

I suppose it depends what you mean by "famous".

Two cities generally reckoned as highpoints in human culture (which doesn't mean they weren't deeply flawed in other ways) were 5th century Athens and 14th century Florence.

5th Century Athens had about 200,000 people in all.

14th century Florence had maybe 80,000.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:29 PM

But what percentage of the global population were those cities, McGrath? Surely 10% of a small population is more significant than 10% of a huge population? Just askin'.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 03:49 PM

Why?

If it's a matter of "famous", I suppose numbers might come into it. If it's a matter of greatness or creativity it's surely pretty irrelevant.

In fact relatively small scale societies probably have a better record than megapolis when it comes to that kind of thing. And people who are into folk music are particularly aware of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 04:29 PM

"GUEST from Sanity" is sounding positively shrill these days, more unbalanced than usual.

but it does make it impossible for Palin to position herself as an ethical and honest politician, a "new" politician, while making accusations about Obama's trustworthiness.

Well, as we see from Alice's posts above and the news sound bites playing, Palin is playing this decision as if it was entirely in her favor, vindicating her behavior and nothing is amiss. Like maybe no one will read the news (or she hasn't read it all) and know the difference.

I suppose it could work--there are still a lot of idiots in America. Dubya actually did get elected the second time. Cross your fingers that more smart people get out and vote for Obama to cancel out the stupid voters this time who are swayed by the Palin popularity contest.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 09:17 PM

"Cross your fingers that more smart people get out and vote for Obama..."


                        Okay! Why would smart people vote for Obama when there are real problems that need to be addressed in the world?

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 09:40 PM

Re: the question I was asked shortly after my last post...

There are definitely things that Obama says that I disagree with. Quite a few of them. However, I see possibilities with an Obama as president that I don't see with McCain. And I want to give Obama an opportunity to make these possibilities reality. It's possible that he won't do it (and it's also possible that he will). But I will never find out if he doesn't get the opportunity.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 09:41 PM

That's true of McCain as well!

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 09:54 PM

Rig, has it occurred to you that the US presidency is awfully hard on its presidents? Look how young and vital Bush looked eight years ago - contrast that with the withered, gray, defeated man you see today. And Bush is hardly the person you would suspect would be that sensitive.

What do you think McCain would look like in, say, two years? He already doesn't look well; his color is terrible.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 10:13 PM

Ebbie - After seeing what McCain has been through, that argument doesn't move me.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 10:43 PM

I don't see the same possibilities with McCain as president as I do with Obama as president. And the possibilities I do see with a McCain presidency, scare the shit out of me. The possibilities I'm talking about with regard to Obama don't scare me.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Peace
Date: 12 Oct 08 - 11:32 PM

A vote for McCain is a vote for Palin, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:25 AM

This link will open a pdf file that is a letter of recommendation written on Wasilla mayor's office stationery by Sarah Palin (complete with spelling errors) to recommend her brother in law, Mike Wooten, for a job in law enforcement.
It is interesting that she not only unethically used the power of her office when she wanted him fired... she also used the power of her office unethically to try to get her relative hired.
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site163/2008/0721/20080721_111415_P

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 04:22 AM

This explains why she's got an 80% approval rating - local gal made good. risen to be the second most powerful person in the world - not bad going.

Nottingham's just down the road from me (population 288,900). Lot of famous people from there. I was just thinking there must be some more people from Alaska -whom I heard of, but didn't know they were from Alaska.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 08:53 AM

There's First Officer William Riker from Star Trek comes from Alaska. Alright, he's a made-up character, but then so are most politicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:14 AM

wld - We're still waiting for the Robin Hood of Alaska to emerge.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:18 AM

I found some!

Sydney Laurence, painter
Susan Butcher, dog musher
Elizabeth Wanamaker Peratrovich, civil rights activist
Jewel, singer
Robert Stroud, Birdman of Alcatraz

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 10:39 AM

"Testimony compiled as part of the inquiry, and The Times' own review of e-mail logs from the administration, show that Todd Palin was a fixture in the governor's office, spending about half of his time there," the Los Angeles Times says. "He attended Cabinet meetings that are supposed to be closed to the public, and was copied on a wide variety of high-level government correspondence on issues such as contract negotiations with the police officers union, Alaska Native issues and the privatization of a dairy near the Palins' hometown of Wasilla."

From an article on troopergate today at:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/13/1538435.aspx

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 11:40 AM

Just imagine when she's in the Oval Office.

dashing in from soccer matches, tazer guns, troopers in cowboy hats and people taking mooses!

makes Clinton's cigar look a bit poxy and insignificant.

and it sounds fun!

I think you should vote for her.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 11:46 AM

Even Teddy Roosevelt didn't stock wild game on the White House lawns. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 12:04 PM

Sounds like Todd Palin is Sarah Palin's Dick Cheney.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 12:11 PM

"I think you should vote for her."


                     So do I!

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 12:22 PM

I had to laugh at Bill Mahrs comment from Friday nights show. He said that he hoped that Sarah Palin would be sent to jail over this matter. At least she'd be able to complete a full sentence.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 01:14 PM

To me, the most fascinating thing about the whole affair is Gov. Palin's statement that the report exonerated her. Either a monumental lack of comprehension, or an inability to read.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 01:20 PM

She also seems to think Achilles Heel refers to her strengths, not weaknesses, according to the way she answered that question in the debate. I've read discussion of Palin's low SAT scores and barely passing grades in school on the Alaska forums. People there are really getting fed up with how she is reflecting on Alaskans.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 01:59 PM

But that's pretty typical of a politicians answer to a question like that. "Tell me what your weakness is" - "Well moderator - I guess my weak point is that I love America SO much that I'm willing to work massive amounts of overtime just to GET THE JOB DONE!!!"

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:03 PM

I thought 80% of people in Alaska thought she was the moose's antlers...

I didn't like her at the start because I thought she sounded mad as a hatter. However I think it has all the makings of a good sit com, and I now find her very entertaining.

Do a lot of people like this get to be State Governors?

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:14 PM

She previously had astronomically higher approvals because people hated the "other guys" so much. Now that she has revealed more of her embarrassing self, Alaskans are coming out against her.
Reported in the Anchorage Daily News:

Oct 10
"the same poll places Gov. Sarah Palin's approval rating in Alaska at about 62 percent. That's based on a survey of 500 likely Alaska voters.

Anchorage pollster Ivan Moore released new results this week too, including similar approval numbers for Palin, which he says are slowly falling.

Her positive-to-negative numbers dropped 3 percentage points in the past two weeks, to 65 percent favorable and 30 percent unfavorable, Moore wrote.

That's compared with 68-27 in late September and 82-13 just after McCain chose her as his running mate. "

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:33 PM

"Most would agree that Monegan is truly a class act. And the story of who Sarah Palin chose to replace him is one I covered quite a bit before Sarah's VP nod. Chuck Kopp stepped into the very big shoes of Walt Monegan, and remained there for two whole weeks before slinking away with a $10,000 severance check, embroiled in a sexual harassment scandal. He wasn't properly vetted. Is anyone surprised?"

Above from the Alaskan Mudflats, read the rest Here.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:04 AM

Imagine her as President. Hell, she's dumber than Bush--and THAT boggles the mind!

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:09 AM

Sounds like Todd Palin is Sarah Palin's Dick Cheney.

No, only her husband.....remember those?

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:23 AM

Yes, I do remember them. I have one. I guess Sarah got a twofer with her husband... a good man to spend her life with and someone to help her use her public office more effectively to promote what's good for the Palins (hence my comparison to Cheney).

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 09:23 AM

Well, that lady is good at denial. She now says the committee report (with a Republican majority membership) clears her of any illegal act and any other ethical wrongdoing. I won't quarrel with her right as Governor to fire her Public Safety Commissioner without reason (even though she had one). But the committee report in its first finding was quite clear that her actions, her husband's actions, and her staff's actions to pressure the Commissioner to fire the trooper were an abuse of ethical standards for personal gain. This lady lies straight-faced; maybe that's what she thinks a "straight-shooter" is.

What makes this case even more ironic is that "abuse of power" is the charge that she used to unseat the previous Republican governor. She should have some familiarity with the concept and she does.

Meanwhile, there a report out on MSNBC that her newly constructed family home in Wasilla was the beneficiary of "in kind donations" from a major building supplier that was subsequently awarded a major contract for a $20 million sports arena. Maybe she learned something from Sen. Stevens. There's nothing like combining the personal goodies with the public good!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:26 AM

Letter from fired police officer to Joe Biden

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:48 AM

Troopergate??...Rezko Rezko Rezko, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Acorn and Voter Fraud......Troopergate???????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:18 AM

Rezko: no accusations have been made.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac: no connections to Obama.

ACORN: did their job diligently by separating out suspect registration forms (which, by law, they are required to turn in regardless of whether or not they are legitimate), flagging them with a description of the problem with each suspect form, and then turning them in to the authorities while requesting that the authorities investigate and prosecute anyone filling out bogus registration forms.


The above list of smears are an indictment of the people who are making them, not the people being targeted with them. They show that those who are using them to as smear tactics are slimy, lying, thugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:53 AM

And if theres anything worse than a slimey lying thug....its gotta be a Republican slimey lying thug.

You guys are taking this all very personal.

Calm down! No tazer guns! no more taking mooses!

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Alice
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:24 PM

Monegan is suing Todd and Sarah Palin for defamation of character.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:48 PM

Wanna bet she's pardoned by Bush?

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:28 PM

From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:48 PM

Wanna bet she's pardoned by Bush?

yeah, but then what would you do?..sentence a mother, with and autistic kid to prison, for firing this idiot cop?

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:01 PM

Down's Syndrome doesn't mean Autistic. Autistic doesn't mean Down Syndrome. No point in not getting things like that right.

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:08 PM

Great!!..you caught it!...paraphrasing is not the same as misquoting, as per aforementioned!!!,,good for you!!

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:56 AM

Joe Biden's Troopergate:

By Bryce A. Priggemeier, Sr.

On January 1st, 2001 at about 1 o'clock in the morning, while employed as a police officer for the City of Newark, Delaware and on patrol, I observed a 2001 Ford Explorer pull along side of me at an intersection and proceed about a full car length past the white stop line. When the light turned green and we pulled away, we pulled up to the next intersection and the same vehicle came to a stop well into the middle of the intersection.

A traffic stop was initiated and the driver identified herself as Ashley Biden �" inquiring if I knew who her father was. I detected what I believed to be an odor of an alcoholic beverage coming from Ms. Biden. As per department protocol and because of Ms. Biden's public notoriety, I requested that a supervisor respond to the scene.

During the time period in which I was waiting for the supervisor to arrive, I performed two field sobriety tests while she was inside the vehicle (both of which she failed miserably). Ms. Biden was drunk. My sergeant arrived and was advised that it was my belief that she was intoxicated. As a new officer and fully aware of the political implications that could possibly follow, I looked to my superior for guidance.

I had an idea as to how I wanted to see things play out �" a win/win situation! I wanted to have one of the other officers park the vehicle in a parking lot and take Ms. Biden home. A win/win in my book, because she would have been off the road and any political snafu avoided. Is this right? Absolutely not, but when you see where this is headed �" if you don't understand my reasoning thus far you certainly will after hearing the outcome.

I was advised by my sergeant that I was to pull Ms. Biden out of the vehicle, perform the remaining field sobriety tests, and that if she was indeed found to be intoxicated and operating a motor vehicle then she was to be arrested and processed accordingly. Needless to say, when she performed the rest of the field sobriety tests she was barely able to stand let alone perform the tests. I looked to my sergeant for one final guiding point and he raised his arm as if to say "What are you waiting for, arrest her." I did..........
.....Two weeks later I was fired without just cause which they could do because of my probationary status as a new officer.....

Subject: RE: BS: Troopergate, anyone?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 02:15 AM

He could always apply for a trooper's position in Alaska, I hear they're in need of a new commissioner. Seems he might do well driving around the Governor. Had he done his job from the start & just given her a ticket & taken her in he'd probably still have his job today, no instead he had to call in the Calavary for a single handed move, make a mountain out of a mole hill, what would've been a hill of beans he turned into a night captains nightmare. He shouldn't be hired as a night watchman at the town dump.

Barry