BS: Palin quotes are a hoax

Subject: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 06:30 PM

I put this on the "... sorry for Palin" thread, but thought it deserved its own headline:

The recent "Palin quotes from a campaign insider" were apparently an elaborate hoax: Fake expert and phony think tank -- NY Times.

A Senior Fellow at the Institute of Nonexistence
By RICHARD PEREZ-PENA
Published: November 12, 2008

"It was among the juicier post-election recriminations: Fox News Channel quoted an unnamed McCain campaign figure as saying that Sarah Palin did not know that Africa was a continent.

Who would say such a thing? On Monday the answer popped up on a blog and popped out of the mouth of David Shuster, an MSNBC anchor. "Turns out it was Martin Eisenstadt, a McCain policy adviser, who has come forward today to identify himself as the source of the leaks," Mr. Shuster said.

Trouble is, Martin Eisenstadt doesn't exist. His blog does, but it's a put-on. The think tank where he is a senior fellow — the Harding Institute for Freedom and Democracy — is just a Web site. The TV clips of him on YouTube are fakes.

And the claim of credit for the Africa anecdote is just the latest ruse by Eisenstadt, who turns out to be a very elaborate hoax that has been going on for months. MSNBC, which quickly corrected the mistake, has plenty of company in being taken in by an Eisenstadt hoax, including The New Republic and The Los Angeles Times."

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 07:32 PM

Well, no wonder she was so steamed about it. I must say that some of Mrs Palin's political enemies have gone to pretty unsavory extremes to damage her reputation, whatever her presumed unsuitability may be for the office of Vice President.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: kendall
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 07:33 PM

That may be so, but she sure as hell had no clue about the duties of the VP.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 07:34 PM

um. How about Palin's complaint since that, if she confused Africa the continent and Africa the country in the context of briefing she thinks it's "mean-spirited, immature", etc, to bring it up?

Doesn't sound all made up to me. We know that she said that part.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 07:37 PM

Sounds like a sneaky way of providing a credible source for something that was actually true.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: SINSULL
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 07:46 PM

I'm with Ebbie on this one. Palin has been bitching about being "mistreated" during the campaign. What about her slanders about Obama? Did she think she could say what she pleased and then not get slammed in return?
Sound like she needs a thicker skin if she plans to run again. There have been articles naming her as the hope of the Republican Party. Great! 12 more years! 12 more years!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 07:55 PM

Africa is a continent. South Africa is a country.

South America is a continent. America* is a country.

Go figure.


*(Yeah, I know there's not really a country called "America" but its use is common and widespread. If you wanna get pedantic about it, bite me.)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 08:02 PM

I wonder if the practice of the USA being called "America" originated in the USA or happened elsewhere and got taken up in the USA subsequently? Or was it the other way round?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 08:03 PM

Oh, I'm not saying McCain and Palin and people in their campaign didn't engage in some very slimy smears against Obama. They did indeed. They did so blatantly.

However, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. It's equally nasty regardless which side of the line it's on, agreed?

What I am questioning here is the self-righteous puffing of people who get really angry about these bad things other people do...but who are quite eager and enthusiastic in doing (or supporting) those same type of bad things themselves whenever it happens to suit their own political agenda.

There's a word for that. I think you know what it is.

In responding aggressively to false accusations, Palin is not showing she has a thin skin...she's showing that she is forthright in defending herself, which is a useful characteristic when you're in politics.

By the way, I think she'd make a terrible president! Just so you don't entirely misconstrue the point I am making here... ;-)

My point here isn't regarding Sarah Palin herself. My point is regarding people in general, and the nastiness and self-serving hypocrisy of partisan politics in particular.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Amos
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 08:04 PM

Well it WAS a mean-spirited joke to play, and she was the perfect target for it because she had been similarly mean-spirited in distorting the truth about her opponents in the Presidential campaign. But it is unlikely she is up to the sort of reflection that leads to wondering what one has done oneself that mirrors the disservices coming in from the world.


I am sure, in the right-size pond, that Ms. Palin is a perfectly fine citizen and individual. She does not have the breadth of insight and understanding to be able to manage a national post.

She has demonstrated that live in several ways which have already been beaten to death hereabouts.

I wish her happiness in Alaska, and hope she remains there.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 08:07 PM

Well-put, Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Beer
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 08:38 PM

Sarah Who?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 08:53 PM

So, why am I not surprised about this? OK, attack the woman on her views and policies...and STOP the lies and woman hating CRAP!


No, she is NOT fit to be the Vice President, OR the President of this country but it is NOT because she is a WOMAN! It's because she is a narrow minded, ignorant bigot!














And no, she doesn't have a 'dong' either......

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 09:03 PM

Did anybody say it was because she was a woman, rather than an idiot? Or am I missing something?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 09:22 PM

I think a big part of it was because she was a woman. Those kinds of people would have happily done the same thing to Hillary.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 09:52 PM

It's pretty obvious to me that Governor Palin didn't have the best interests of her fellow Alaskans in mind when she was spouting that near-slanderous rhetoric on the campaign trail. Her team lost, the other guys won, and paybacks are hell.

I was taught long ago that it makes good business sense to maintain cordial relations with your competitor today, because that competitor might be your boss tomorrow. Well, Governor Palin's gonna have a new boss in a couple of months, and she's probably done a pretty good job of pissing the guy off. Any bill that comes across President Obama's desk with any Alaska-bound pork in it's gonna get vetoed.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 10:15 PM

"...because she was a woman". Ah yes, more drivel from our most reliable source.

Just read what Sorcha says: Sarah is an ignorant bigot. Her sex is immaterial.

Don't worry, we'd criticize David Duke just as much. She's our updated version of Mr. Duke. Anybody who stirs up crowds to shout "Kill him " and ""Terrorist" and does nothing about calming them down should not whine about mistreatment by the "liberal media".

McCain had at least his one moment of "No, ma'am, he's not an Arab. He's a good family man who I have some major disagreements with".


Sarah thought--and probably still thinks--nothing of appealing to racist fears or anything else to establish Obama as "different"---gee, I wonder how.

No surprise that somebody who has lived in the gutter for at least a year--and has no use for Mexicans or prominent black people (based on Mudcat posts), still defends Sarah.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Beer
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 10:24 PM

Well said Bee-dubya-ell

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Nov 08 - 11:45 PM

This is as much an indictment of the mainstream media as it is of bloggers. What it tells us is that the mainstream media is no more reliable than bloggers are. Hopefully it will cause them to be more careful in the future. (Probably won't, though... )

I don't see any difference between people saying Palin is dumb, and people saying Bush is dumb. It's not because of their gender in either case, but because they come across as inarticulate and not very intelligent.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: DougR
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 12:11 AM

kendall: do you know what the duties of the VP are?

I suspect it varies from one administration to another, but I really don't know myself.

Think Joe Biden knows?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Nerd
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 01:04 AM

Read the story linked to in the first post, please. It doesn't say the "Palin quotes are a hoax." It says that Martin Eisenstadt's taking credit for leaking the quotes was a hoax.

There is no Martin Eisenstadt, it's just a false name on a blog. But the story about Palin thinking Africa was a country didn't originate on his blog, it originated with an unnamed source within the campaign who spoke to Fox News. The phony "Eisenstadt" then falsely claimed credit for the leak.

The leak itself was real. This does not necessarily mean the story is true, but the leak was real. The fact that a hoaxer later claimed credit has no bearing on whether the quotes were accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Paul Burke
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 03:58 AM

McCain had at least his one moment of "No, ma'am, he's not an Arab. He's a good family man who I have some major disagreements with".


Sarah thought--and probably still thinks--nothing of appealing to racist fears

So it's not racist to suggest that Arabs aren't good family men?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 05:08 AM

Surely the implication of McCain's comment wasn't anything to do with Arabs as such, it was a polite way of saying that the woman in question knew sod all about it and was talking nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 06:05 AM

Besides, Arabs might very well be good family men, to all four of their wives and hordes of children.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Paul Burke
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 06:10 AM

Any reason why not?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 07:14 AM

Do you think these refutations of her stupidity will help Sarah Palin to insignificance?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: kendall
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 07:40 AM

Doug, yes I do, and I don't have to look it up.I learned it in high school.
John Nance Garner, vice president under FDR in his first term said about that office, "It aint worth a bucket of warm spit." (He actually said, "warm piss" but they couldn't print that.
Teddy Roosevelt was given that position because it was considered a dead end, and he had enemies in his own party.

The duties of the VP...be ready to take over as president if needed. Serve as referee in the senate, and to cast the tie breaking vote. That is it.
And, yes, Joe Biden knows what the constitution says.

Palin is a clueless idiolog.If she is the future of the republican party, you are in deep doo doo.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 08:44 AM

"Joe Biden knows what the constitution says."


                      But will he be able to remember?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 09:37 AM

"...Arabs aren't good family men.."---this post is either a) not serious or b) stupidly PC.

McCain was not addressing the domestic behavior of Arabs.   It was an off-the-cuff remark--meant to imply Obama was not a terrorist or a Moslem--as I somehow think the poster knew.

Obviously" Arab" or "Moslem" is not synonymous with "terrorist", and in the best of all worlds, McCain would have addressed this also--as Colin Powell did.

But to tag McCain as racist on the basis of this remark is just more-PC-than-thou.   Spare us.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 12:54 PM

Four wives isn't that unusual in the States is it? Not at the same time generally.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 01:04 PM

Palin appears to have her eye on Steven's Senate seat (if god opens that door which means if Stevens gets thrown out and she has to choose his replacement) but early and absentee ballots are turning the tide. She is about to lose another election.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 01:21 PM

Apparently Nerd is correct. Fox News says

"The hoax was limited to the identity of the source in the story about Palin -- not the FOX News story itself. While Palin has denied that she mistook Africa for a country, the veracity of that report was not put in question by the revelation that Eisenstadt is a phony."

The NY Times report did not state this unambiguously.

I really wanted to be able to cut her some slack... but I guess not.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: PoppaGator
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 02:10 PM

"I wonder if the practice of the USA being called "America" originated in the USA or happened elsewhere and got taken up in the USA subsequently? Or was it the other way round?"

Good question, Kevin, and interesting food for thought.

I think that this convention has its origins in England. Way back in the time of Elizabeth I, when the first explorers and settlers were making their way to the New World, they would quite naturally be said to be "going to America." The fact that English citizens and other English-speaking people generally went to one particular large area of North America, while the Spanish and Portuguese gravitated towards points south, was taken for granted.

English folks had no need to say, or to think, that their friends and family (and/or their prisoners) were moving to a different part of America than other Europeans.

Subsequently, of course, the English/British/Celtic English-speaking colonists thought of themselves, and called themselves, "Americans." Again, they were living in a different, smaller world than the one we inhabit today, and there was always an unconsicous assumption that there was never any reason to differentiate "English America" from the very distant areas to the south, or for that matter even from the much closer environs of Francophile North America.

In summary, this usage may have originated at least partly "in the USA," geographically speaking, but long before the area in question became the "USA" ~ rather, it originated way back when the area was the "British Colonies." I would propose that it originated among the English-speaking British on both sides of the Atlantic.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 02:31 PM

So we don't know the true source of the story that alleges that Sarah Palin "mistakenly believed Africa was a country instead of a continent."

How's this for a scenario?—

In a noisy crowded place, someone asks Sarah Palin a question about Africa, and she mishears it as "South Africa" (or vice versa) and answers accordingly. The questioner, or maybe a bystander (who might not have been a professional reporter and doesn't have the habit of checking his inferences) mistakenly concludes that she doesn't know the difference.

This is how rumors get started.

I'm inclined to cut her some slack, too, especially since we don't know the source and can't question him about the circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 03:00 PM

I think the incident was alleged to have taken place while the McCain campaign people were coaching Palin for the debate. They allegedly discovered while coaching her, that she didn't know that Africa was a continent. Allegedly, they had to set her straight on that fact in preparation for the debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 03:36 PM

Mary, Palin can't appoint the senator. It has to be an election. This was put into law recently after the last governor appointed his daughter to be a senator, to wide-ranging protest.

"Joe Biden knows what the constitution says."

                      But will he be able to remember?

Of course. Nothing wrong with his memory or intellect. And Obama would be a fool to waste such a resource. I'm sure it will be along the lines of recent Democratic presidents who make good use of their VPs. (This is in contrast to the co-presidency that Cheney had going, where Bush was his puppet).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 03:48 PM

"Nothing wrong with his [Biden's] memory or intellect."


                Except that he forgot that Herbert Hoover was the president in 1929 when the stock market crashed, and not FDR, and there was no television through wich to address the people.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 08:32 PM

so you reckon she's a bit of a dark horse. a bit of a genius on the quiet.....

And there was us thinking she was thick as horse shite......and no wonder the polar ice caps melting with her in charge of all that snow.

shows how wrong you can be about someone. I'll definitely vote for her, if she comes on Britain's Got Talent.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 09:06 PM

I'll see if I can get a message to her. And I think she's down in the lower 48 now, so the ice cap will have a chance to rebuild.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 09:45 PM

When my friend from Wasilla comes to visit us in California, she says she's "going to America." It's a local joke that's been told the last half-century.
Coming from Wisconsin, which has a similarly tenuous relationship with the rest of the U.S., I think the joke is pretty funny.

Palin is too far conservative for me, but I think she's an intelligent, capable woman. I've never believed the allegations that she didn't know Africa was a continent, that she didn't know the members of NAFTA, and the rest of it. She's a college graduate, and I just can't believe American education is so poor that she wouldn't know those things.

On the other hand, there have also been all sorts of nasty falsehoods spread about Barack Obama, and I wonder who was the source of them - particularly the ones stating Obama was born in Kenya and has a falsified Hawaii birth certificate, and that he was actually a Muslim. My 93-yr-old mother-in-law still believes those allegations, and she's very upset that a foreign Muslim terrorist was elected president. She heard it over and over again on talk radio, so she believes it must be true. I heard somewhere that a single person was the source of most of the anti-Obama falsehoods, but I haven't found confirmation of that.

One would thing the issues would be enough basis for voting - why do we have to cloud the discussion up with so many lies? Oh, and did you notice the lies were directed at a woman and a black man, and against Hillary Clinton during the primaries? Seems like those boldfaced lies are boldfaced bigotry. I didn't hear similar lies about McCain and Biden.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 10:50 PM

I suspect the business about Africa is just her sloppy thinking--to go with her sloppy way of expressing herself. She probably said Africa, meaning the country South Africa, and had to be counseled to at least try to be more precise.

There's no need to make up lies about her--she's condemned by her own words quite well. And, as far as the shopping spree is concerned, she didn't try tremendously hard--which would fit her "maverick" image--to say "Get thee behind me, Neiman Marcus".




Obama, on the other hand, is quite precise in his speaking--a huge, and welcome change from GWB.

And as far as the lies about him, it would have helped if McCain had denied straight out--more than once--that Obama was a Moslem.   It should have been brought out strongly at the debates.

Rather than as Sarah--back to her--did--encouraging her audiences to believe anything about Obama--including that he really was a terrorist sympathizer.

She deserves everything she gets in criticism--she's earned it.

But, as I've said before, more power to her--if she learns nothing, changes nothing, and winds up the GOP standard-bearer in 2012, she will split the Republican party--again--and ensure Obama's re-election.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: CamiSu
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 10:57 PM

Sorry Joe. She may know that Africa is a continent (and certainly does now) her performance in her interviews and the debate (where she only deigned to answer the questions she had been coached on, even though they were not the questions she was asked, convinces me that though she may have wilderness smarts and is a quick study and clever, she is not capable of the kind of thinking we need in the Oval Office. I also think that the Obama Campaign CHOSE not to go negative. Most of the criticism of Mrs. Palin was from the public.

And her college degree took her 6 years and 5 colleges to earn. In a trip like that it would be fairly easy to not get the geography course that teaches about Africa. 'Course I learned that so far back I can't remember when.

CamiSu

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Nov 08 - 11:38 PM

"Obama, on the other hand, is quite precise in his speaking..."


                We'll just leave that and let people make up their own minds.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 12:28 AM

Aw, CamiSu, give Palin some credit. She's bright, articulate, and moderately sexy. Of course, so is Obama.

So was Anita Bryant, but let's not talk about her.....

But as far as Palin goes, there really wasn't much wrong with her qualifications. It's just that her politics are too extremely right-wing, and that would make her a dangerous President.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 02:52 AM

Joe...I don't understand why you get all the flak here.

You have great understanding and see right through all the bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 07:07 AM

"It's just that her politics are too extremely right-wing, and that would make her a dangerous President."


                        Why would an extreme right-wing president be any more dangerous than an extreme left-wing president?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Paul Burke
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 07:14 AM

You've never been in any danger of getting even a slightly left wing president.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 07:28 AM

Sorry Rig, but you really walked into that one!!

But seriously....Are extreme Presidents or Prime ministers really more dangerous than "moderate" ones?
I don,t think so, take the example of our own late unlamented Mr Blair, a centrist who dragged us into a mad war, and who,s actions brought death and destruction to our streets.

If a right wing Tory Govt had been in power, they would never have got a parliamentary mandate for war and many of our young men and women would not be dead.

Sometimes things dont work out in the way people expect them to, as happened with the election of Blair.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 08:41 AM

Well, maybe, ake, but I think it's possible to elect what the public thinks is a moderate president, only so see him go off the charts after the election. To me, Ronald Reagan was like that. Before he took office, I had no idea he'd do all the stupid things he did. I don't know why that wouldn't be possible on the other side.

               If Obama starts a campaign to pay reparations for slavery after taking the oath, we'll know what we have.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 08:53 AM

Riginslinger-

"If Obama starts a campaign to pay reparations for slavery after taking the oath, we'll know what we have."

Trolling for more comment?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 10:30 AM

Just using that for an example, Charley:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: pdq
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 10:59 AM

"...You've never been in any danger of getting even a slightly left wing president..."

The United States is not a breeding ground for revoltionary Marxists because people can go up or down in wealth and social position with few (if any) restrictions. The usual structure with a small class of rich and powerful and a much larger class of poor (often hopelss) workers is the norm throughout most of the world. Still found in Dicken's books, I guess. In Mexico, most of South America, Saudia Arabia (list is almost endless) there are a few families who are pre-determined to own the businesses and make the politcal decisions. In the US, people who start with very little like Bill Gates, Bill Cosby, Oprah Winfrey, several members of the Walton family, Barbara Sreisand, all four Beatles (at least, at this time, their estates), and many others are billionaires and have a powerful influence on the lives of others.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 11:12 AM

"...several members of the Walton family,..."


             I think you can only say that about Sam--all of the rest of them were heirs of his.

             And that picture is changing. Since the election of Reagan, the divide between rich and poor has grown hugely.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 11:27 AM

At this point in history, the US is actually worse than India in terms of income disparity.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 11:28 AM

Its not a hoax

its god's will.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: PoppaGator
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 05:02 PM

pdq ~ The Beatles are hardly examples of social mobility "in the US."

I'm very surprised that anyone involved with Mudcat would ever think such a thing, let along write it!

(For those not in the know: the Fab Four were/are citizens of the UK, not the US ~ from Liverpool, England, as a matter of fact.)

And to address your larger point: the fact that certain members of our society's tiny economic elite came from humble origins may demonstrate that no one is automatically excluded from the very limited number of opportunites for exceptional wealth, but has no bearing at all upon the unquestioned fact that we are experiencing a growing gap between a tiny class of the super-rich, and the vast majority of citizens who have become accustomed to "middle-class" status, but who are in actuality paycheck-to-paycheck working class, and getting poorer every day.

A thriving economy can only exist where most people can buy stuff. When unbridled greed has allowed the most overprivileged to grab up all the goodies for themselves, and the rest of us are left with little or no "disposable income," it hurts everyone. To reverse an old cliche, even the bad have to suffer with the good.

Back to Sarah:

I'm a little surprised at Joe Offer "giving her a pass" and accepting that she is truly more knowledgeable than generally acknowledged. I have heard and read enough of her airheaded talk to believe without a doubt that she is entirely innocent of a great deal of very basic knowledge that I learned in grade school, or learned outside of school during childhood from reading books and newspapers, looking at maps, etc.

What is scariest about her, to my mind, is not the right-wing platitudes that she repeats without truly understanding what the hell she's talking about. I mean, she recites the approved doctrine that she is "against socialism" while at the same time distributing fat oil-royalty checks to every Alaskan citizen, much in the same manner that she declares herself opposed to "Washington lobbying" and "earmarks" despite having been the nation's most successful small-town mayor in acquiring pork for little Wasilla ~ because she hired a Washington lobbying firm!

In other words, her mouthing of the right-wing platitudes she has been taught by rote does not mean that she will carry out conservative policies.

No, what is scary about Sarah is that she has absolutely no shame about her ignorance, never exhibiting the slightest self-doubt, even when she should stop and consider her uncritical sentiments before blabbing them out as though they were solidly established facts. This unjustifiable self-assurance is the main reason she always projects an air of conviction, no matter what kind of crap she is putting out. The effect upon any listener who doesn't already know more about a given subject than Palin does is to make such a listener much too likely to believe everything that comes out of her mouth.

Her massive self-confidence is at the very bottom of what makes her so magnetically attractive. It is not only unfortunate, but dangerous, that this political "strength" of hers makes her:
~ less likely than a normal person to stop and think, and to learn something new; and
~ very likely, and exceptionally able, to convince large numbers of followers of just about anything that she accepts as true.

And, oh yeah, Joe: do you really believe that attendance at a sequence of way-too-many backwater community colleges guarantees that a "student" will learn even one-tenth of the wisdom and knowledge that you acquired from those Jesuits?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 07:30 AM

"No, what is scary about Sarah is that she has absolutely no shame about her ignorance,..."


                   That pretty much describes the basic personality of a politician, any politician.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Genie
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 07:10 PM

Look, to this day there are millions if not billions of people who think Al Gore claimed to have invented the internet and that Howard Dean let out a wild and crazy scream SOLO (i.e., without a crowd cheering and screaming with him as loudly). Why? Because once these myths and myth-understandings get "out there" in the media, hardly any of our "journalists" bother trying to disabuse the public of their false beliefs.   (I mean, it's far more important to have some good jokes to pass around than for the electorate to be fully and accurately informed - right?)

Although some people on the "left" whom I respect are guilty of gullibly (and gleefully) spreading the ridiculous idea that Palin didn't realize Africa is a continent (C'mon, REALLY?), such misrepresentation of the mean-mouthed and mendacious Palin is trivial compared to accusing of VP Gore of being so delusional as to try to take credit for inventing the technology of the internet.   
(In the case of Gore's statement and Dean's "scream," the press all along had the actual transcript and/or video that revealed the truth.   In the case of what Palin may or may not have said about Africa, we have no such original source for corroboration or refutation.)

What I'd really like would be for the press to do their jobs and quit trying so hard to find "juicy" stories or be comedians.    Let them show ALL such hoaxes, misrepresentations, and false accusations to be just that.

G

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 06:28 AM

""I had no idea he'd do all the stupid things he did. I don't know why that wouldn't be possible on the other side.""


WHAT other side, Rig??

You have an extreme right wing party, and a moderate right wing party.

You wouldn't recognise a REAL left winger if he bit you in the arse.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 08:46 AM

Don - I was talking about Ronald Reagan. And I would agree with you analogy of the two major parties, but if you take a coin and flip it way out into right field, it still has two sides, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 09:18 AM

Two sides like this?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 10:23 AM

Good post Genie, I agree with most of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Alice
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:19 AM

Palin herself showed her confusion about a country called Africa (not South Africa) when she stated this:

"If there are allegations based on questions or comments that I made in debate prep about NAFTA, and about the continent vs. the country when we talk about Africa there, then those were taken out of context."

There is no "country" of Africa there - or anywhere.

Even though a 'source' name now is proven to be a fake name, that does not change the fact that Palin herself thinks there is a country called Africa based on her own statement.

LISTEN TO HER OWN WORDS IN THIS INTERVIEW
She still seems to think there is a country called Africa.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws3pagGP158

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Genie
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 12:17 PM

Alice, George W Bush once remarked that "Africa is a very big country," but I don't for one minute believe that he really didn't realize Africa is a continent and includes such countries as Egypt, Ethiopia, Kenya, South Africa, and Zimbabwe.    Just as, when Joe Biden quipped that President FDR, back in 1929, after the stock market crash, got on TV to talk to the American people ... , I have no doubt he knows that FDR wasn't President in 1929 and that he addressed the nation on radio (since TV hadn't been developed for consumer use while he was in office).
Sometimes the mouth gets ahead of the brain and people say dumb things which they KNOW are wrong, if they reflect for a moment.    No need to make a Federal case over it.

Palin may well have been confused about what many of the African countries ARE. Maybe she thought there was a country called "Africa" within the continent, sort of like we in the US refer to our part of "North America" as "America" and within the US we have both a "Virginia" and a "West Virginia."   Who knows?   But she does have a high school diploma, in addition to her bachelor's, and most kids learn basic geography in grade school.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Alice
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 12:25 PM

It's a moot point, but Palin showed in this and many other ways that she is just as inarticulate and ignorant as George W. Bush has shown himself to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Alice
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 12:36 PM

and yes, I already knew about Bush and his Africa quote.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 01:46 PM

Look, to this day there are millions if not billions of people who think Al Gore claimed to have invented the internet and that Howard Dean let out a wild and crazy scream SOLO (i.e., without a crowd cheering and screaming with him as loudly). Why? Because once these myths and myth-understandings get "out there" in the media, hardly any of our "journalists" bother trying to disabuse the public of their false beliefs.

People who believe lies like those are believing them because they want to believe them. And they choose to believe the media outlets which confirm what they want to believe. You can only be "disabused" of false beliefs if you are willing to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Barry Finn
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 06:12 PM

Here in New England we consider Texas to be a part of South America & from where we stand we don't usually like to see it from here either, We're rethinking our position though with the loss of Tom DeLay.

It's not jus the one comment Sara made reguarding Africa, it's her disdain for the educated, the attempt at dumbing down intelligence & her constant show of her own lack of worldy knowledge & common sense, even though she was 'some educated'. She turned out to be a buffoon. "I'll have to get back to you on that, Katie"!

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: Genie
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 10:01 PM

Right on, Barry.

The problem with Palin is not so much that her education might need updating and upgrading as that she openly displays and encourages contempt for education, science, and even articulate speech as "elitist" and therefore, somehow, "not really American."

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Palin quotes are a hoax
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Nov 08 - 11:11 PM

Joe:
"Aw, CamiSu, give Palin some credit. She's bright, articulate, and moderately sexy. "

Sexy is a matter of taste, but as to the rest...what are you gonna believe? Me or your lyin' eyes?" If one can give any credence to
William of Occam, she's a mush-mouthed ignoramus.