Banjo Tab

Subject: Banjo Tab
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 01:51 AM

I'm jumping the gun a bit but I'm just curious. I've recently bought a 5-String banjo and Pete Seeger's book on how to play it. I'm enjoying it and getting the hang of his style, but Pete doesn't tab out many songs. Are there any places to find tabs for folk songs in this style? I'm not looking for anything particular now, just in general.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Old Roger
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 05:03 AM

The Banjo Player's Songbook by Tim Jumper may be what you need.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Ernest
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 05:29 AM

Look here

Jay Buckey`s site

or here

Banjohangout

for a start.

Good Luck
Ernest

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: bald headed step child
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 01:01 PM

Hi Guest,

Most of the tab sites I have found have mostly 3 finger or Bluegrass style arrangements, and with the Seeger reference I'm guessing that's probably not what you are looking for.

Fortunately, you came to the right place.

There is a wealth of info on this site for banjo players of any ability.

One of our own here has a series of instructional and fun videos on Youtube that I think you might find very helpful in learning to play in a style you can call your own.

frailing lessons

Patrick is not the only one here who does such things, (don't want to leave anyone out), but I can tell you that I've been playing banjo for several years, guitar before that, and I'm finding alot of cool stuff on there.

I hope this is helpful to you.

BHSC

It's also very easy to become a member here, so we can get to know you. Just click on the membership tab at the top and go from there.

If you don't want to join right now you can enter a name in the guest box so we can get to know you that way.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 01 Jan 09 - 04:06 PM

The Tim Jumper book mentioned above is excellent as a collection of songs worth singing. It is all in tablature, which with very few exceptions are for clawhammer / frailing style of playing. Pete Seeger's "basic strum" also fits the same pattern of notes on the tab.

I am also a fan of the banjo lessons provided online by Patrick and Pat Costello. They have at different times done podcasts and more recently stuff on youtube. I like their attitude, which is pretty much that if you can play the components which build into tunes, then you can play ANTHING, as opposed to learning a tune note for note, and as a result ending up only able to play that one tune.

Of course, one of the best ways to learn is from a real live person. Tell us in which part of the World you are located, and there may be a banjo playing mudcatter somewhere close. You may also be within travelling distance of events that might be of interest.

Quack!
Geoff the Duck.

p.s. give us a name to use for you (real or fantastic) and use the same one consisently, so we know it is you we are replying to.
On mudcat "GUEST" has been misused, so recent policy is to ban postings from unnamed guests.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 12:45 PM

The Banjo Hangout, suggested by Ernest has tabs in three-finger (bluegrass) and clawhammer (frailing, down-picking, thumping, rapping...) as well as many other old-time and other styles.
The clawhammer tabs can be used for up-picking (Seeger style) and vice-versa. Anything that can be played in one style can be played in the other.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 01:51 PM

I think the most useful thing would be a beginning banjo book that shows 2 things, a basic accompaniment for a song and then a beginners solo version that sounds good by itself without having a guitar or other instrumental support.

So far, I haven't seen any except for Pete Seeger's book which doesn't have enough songs in it.

I think Dan Levenson is about the only one who may have a beginner's orientation.

Being able to just play a simple Seeger-style song without too much activity in the three-finger or clawhammer style would be useful.

I'd write it if I had the time.

Some of the basic tunes like Skip To My Lou, Cindy, or other basic banjo tunes could be
selected.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Patrick_Costello
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 02:22 PM

I have posted these links before, but what the heck:

Everything you need to know about frailing banjo - from technique to tunes - is all free for downloading:

Videos:
Old Time Banjo
Frailing Banjo
Frailing The Blues

Audio Workshops:
Virtual Frailing Banjo

Books:
The How and the Tao of Old Time Banjo
A Book of Five Strings
The Outlaws and Scalawags Songbook

Plain Text:
Basic Frailing Banjo
Easy Bluegrass Banjo
Calloused Ears
Frailing Banjo Backup

In addition to all of that, there are 188 workshops (mostly 5-string banjo, but there is also stuff for guitar, ukulele, tenor banjo and harmonica) on my Youtube page (my YouTube handle is dobro33H) and you will also find a lot of student-generated workshops and performances on my blog: http://tangiersound.wordpress.com/.

Also at http://tangiersound.wordpress.com/ be sure to check out the old Folk Song of the Day archives as well as The Daily Frail.

-Patrick

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Patrick_Costello
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 02:30 PM

"I think the most useful thing would be a beginning banjo book that shows 2 things, a basic accompaniment for a song and then a beginners solo version that sounds good by itself without having a guitar or other instrumental support."

I already did that with The Outlaws & Scalawags Songbook. The link will take you to the Creative Commons version. You can get the print version on Amazon.

-Patrick

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: bald headed step child
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 02:50 PM

I'm sorry Patrick.

I just realized that when I put the link up to your Youtubes, I forgot to put your name on it.

I am having a wonderful time with them. The nicest thing I think is your emphasis on having fun with it. I find most tab, and dots, to be more like work, and that's not why I started playing music.

I did find the blues lesson 1, but haven't found the 2nd. Is it under a different title?

Thanx,

BHSC

P.S. I hope you get to feeling better soon, if not already.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Patrick_Costello
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 09:41 PM

I never got the full blues DVD up on YouTube - but it is on archive.org. http://www.archive.org/details/frailing.the.blues

I have a LOT of instructional material up on archive.org, so try doing a search for "Patrick Costello". Up until a few months ago when my hearing gave out I was trying to post a few workshops a week.

-Patrick

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: GUEST,JMF
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 10:11 PM

Original poster here,

I like how the tab is in The Outlaws & Scalawags Songbook, is that how it is in The Banjo Player's Songbook?

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: bald headed step child
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 02:49 AM

Thanks Patrick for the info on the blues video. I was having problems getting them to play before, but I got it figured out.

My Windows Media Player wouldn't play them, but thru the help section on Archive I found the VLC media player and installed it and now everything is hunky-dory.

If anyone else is having this problem, that's how I got it fixed.

Now I need to get off of here and go practice, practice, practice.

BHSC

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Patrick_Costello
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 09:02 AM

Original Poster: The Banjo Players Songbook is sorta-kinda like Outlaws & Scalawags. It is one of the few frailing songbooks available and well worth having in your library.

BHSC: Practice the basic frailing strum every day, and if you are not used to making chords go ahead and make up some simple drills like throwing in random chord changes. Other than that, your practice time is best spent playing and singing.

A book like Rise Up Singing is a fantastic resource for a budding frailing banjo picker. Instead of pointlessly trying to memorize tab note-for-note (and that never works) you can dive in and play rhythm while you sing the melody. When I was just starting out I was lucky enough to get an impromptu banjo lesson from Peggy Seeger and Elizabeth Cotten. Their advice was to keep things simple and sing.

Instead of pounding your head against the wall memorizing crappy fiddle tunes nobody but banjo geeks want to hear, just take the basic banjo skill set and start having fun. Get into jam sessions. Sing on the front steps. Go visit nursing homes. Do the stuff folk musicians used to do before they all got self-important. As you wander along making music your banjo skills will develop naturally. You will become a musician who happens to play the banjo.

-Patrick

-Patrick

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: bald headed step child
Date: 03 Jan 09 - 01:23 PM

Yeah, I don,t spend much time on fiddle tunes. They always try to cram too much extra stuff into them so the melody gets lost and they all sound the same. Kinda like alot of the 3finger stuff.

I've never understood the fascination.

I always figured if I wanted to play fiddle tunes, I'd play the fiddle.

BHSC

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: folkwaller
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 05:24 AM

Good sound advice from Patrick and b.h.step child.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 04 Jan 09 - 02:46 PM

Good advice for beginners, but I must admit that I enjoy playing fiddle tunes. Once you learn the fingering of a few scales, fiddle tunes don't require much work, either three finger or clawhammer. I don't find the melody getting lost any more on the banjo than on the fiddle. I'd rather learn them from records than from tab though and I seldom try to learn a fiddle tune from a recording of a banjo player playing it.
I'd love to be able to play them on a fiddle, but since I'm in my sixties, I think it's too late to obtain any proficiency at this time; besides, "fiddle" tunes sound grest on banjo, mandolin, guitar and mouth harp too.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: bald headed step child
Date: 05 Jan 09 - 01:53 AM

I guess I should clarify what I meant.

I do enjoy playing with fiddle players and there are a few fiddle tunes I enjoy playing, but I really don't care for music where everyone plays the same thing note for note.

When each player takes the basic melody and does something unique to their instrument it adds to the whole.

I admit with scale work and such, it isn't that difficult, but I rarely hear a fiddle player trying to play note for note what the banjo or guitar are doing.

Many of the so called fiddle tunes originally were banjo tunes, or "songs", with words, but with the addition of all the turnarounds and tricks the original melody is all but lost.

Most tab you will find today is from someones version of someone elses version.

It is also teaching and reinforcing another players maybe not so good habits.

I really enjoy when I can find the most basic version of a song, just the melody, maybe chords, and go from there.

With a little scale study and such that also isn't that difficult.

Then you can do like the basic theme of this thread, after a small amount of creep, and make the song your own.

That's how I prefer to do it, but to each his own. Each player has to find what works best for them.

BHSC

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: bald headed step child
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 12:27 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: bald headed step child
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 05:11 AM

I had to bring this back to say thanks to Patrick,and let some of the original posters know, that following the basic ideas in the Youtube lessons and info in this thread that the impossible has occured.

I have been playing banjo for some time, but just recently started clawhammer, and hardly ever sang before, but following the above mentioned instructions I picked up the song "Georgia Buck Is Dead" and within 30 minutes I was playing it and singing it, and it doesn't sound half bad if I do say so myself.

It seems so simple to start with the building blocks.

Gee, who'd a thunk it?

Most of the instructional books out there always start with some kind of solo tab, which is what most of us think we want, but that is self defeating.

I've been playing music of some sort for around 35 years now, and am still learning, thanks to people here.

Thanks to Patrick, and all the people on this thread and others that I have been involved with, and thanks to Joe for giving us a place to learn.(no one says that enough, even though we all think it)

BHSC

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: GUEST,JMF
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 02:17 AM

Patrick,

Thank you very much for the help. I'm glad you brought up the topic of singing because that's the whole reason I posted here. Most tabs you find online don't really seem good for singing songs. One question though, is the frailing you teach really all that different than Pete's index-strum-thumb method (if that makes any sense)?

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 12:52 PM

GUEST,JMF - although the pattern of notes produced by the Seeger basic strum and by clawhammer playing fall at the same places in the music,and on the same string, the feel from the playing end is very different.

I started playing banjo with very little except the Pete Seeger book to give me clues. As a result I learned the Seeger Strum and got on "okay" by using it. I did, however find the change from an up-picking index finger to a downward strum slightly awkward when doing anything faster than a certain speed.
At some point in my playing, alongside listening to records I had managed to find, I found a description of clawhammer banjo picking. When I returned to Seeger's book, I found that he had very briefly mentioned clawhammer, but hadn't given much space or prominence to the technique.
I cannot find my copy of the book, and do not recall if Pete Seeger described how to clawhammer, or whether I found some other description, but within minutes of practicing clawhammer it felt like second nature to me.

In clawhammer, EVERY picking stroke is a movement from the wrist rather than a flexing of the fingers. The hand is held in a relatively fixed but relaxed "claw" shape so you do not have to spend time thinking about extending fingers. The only thing your brain needs to process is the position of your "leading" finger (some use first, others prefer second finger). Once learned, the basic frail is totally automatic, leaving your mind to concentrate on what the left hand is playing. You never have to think "Should I be picking-up or strumming down?" as you never pick upwards.

Clawhammer is a very economical technique. Played properly it is also a very relaxed style, even when played fast. The fact that you are not flexing your hand, not extending fingers or pulling them back in, means that faster movements are possible. I personally am not a fan of tunes being played too fast, but when it's the only game in town, clawhammer allows me to keep level with the fastest I have come across. I certainly could not keep up if I was using the Seeger strum.

As for the left hand and the fingerboard. All the hammer-ons and pull-offs are exactly the same as you would use with the Seeger strum, so that end of the playing is no different. You can do the same song accompaniments using clawhammer as Pete would have done using his preferred technique. Tablature written for Seeger style contains the same notes played on the same string at the same time as it would if it was written for clawhammer, it is only the difference between a finger plucking and a hand striking down which distinguishes how the tab is played.

Clawhammer suit me better than the Seeger strum. Others have different preferences.
I hope my descriptions answer some of your question.

Quack!
Geoff the Duck.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: GUEST,JMF
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 10:14 PM

I've been going a long with my banjo and I think things are slowly coming together. I've worked out some ways to Play Union Maid and Worried Man Blues. They don't sound fantastic but decent enough.

Anyway, I have two more questions. One, what do you all suggest for a fifth string capo? Second, is their a general rule as to what note to tune the fifth string to? For example, if I'm in a C tunning and capo the first fret to play in Db, what should I tune the fifth string to?

Thank you all for the help again!

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 20 Apr 09 - 10:28 PM

Guest,JMF, here are three threads on the 5th string capo topic:

Fifth string capo (in which I linked to the rarely mentioned option of the "cap-o")

banjo: 5th string capo or tacks?

5th String Capo


~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: GUEST,JMF
Date: 21 May 09 - 12:55 AM

Another question, say I want to learn a song that starts in the key of G but switches to the key of E. What would be the best thing for me to do in this situation?

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 21 May 09 - 06:26 AM

JMF - for a lot of stuff, I personally wouldn't bother changing the note played by 5th string.
A number of years back, the local music sessions were pretty much Irish Diddly-diddly stuff. I mostly play using standard open G tuning and if left to my own devices will play in keys of C or G. The Irish stuff tended to be G or D with a bunch in A thrown in at random.
My initial choice was either to keep changing a capo or just to vamp chords up the neck. Neither of these was a particularly satisfying solution, vamping became tedious after a while, and capo changing often meant that by the time I was in tune with what they were playing, they were ready to shift to a different tune in a new key which wasn't right for where the capo now was.
I developed my own fingering, making use of partial chords, open strings which fit the fingering of scales in D and using my first finger to bar across the neck and fingering notes or chords with my other three fingers.
What I found is that nobody noticed that the 5th string wasn't playing the note which it would have if capoed. In clawhammer, it is seldom used as a actual melody note, it is a short, crisp, percussive thing which you notice if it is missing, but when being played is just part of the overall "feel" of the style.

I suppose what I'm saying is Don't worry about it unless you find that it causes a problem with a particular song. If you learn a tune in key of C, but need to capo up to D# for your voice, put the 5th string capo (or retune 5th string) to match. If you need to change key within a song don't worry unless the 5th string clashes with what you want the accompaniment to sound like. Remember, it IS alloweable to NOT play the 5th string if it doesn't fit - just leave it out. If it's your accompaniment, you can make the rules.

Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 May 09 - 03:09 PM

You need a fifth string capo. Then a banjo capo. If you have a regular size neck on your banjo, capo on the fourth fret and use a C tuning.

If you have a long-neck Seeger style banjo, the open strings in a G tuning should be
tuned down to an E chord.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 May 09 - 03:14 PM

What Patrick Costello says!

What is missing are basic song accompaniments in tab form using the Seeger style of playing which is principally up picking. His accompaniments are basic and effective for singing.
He employs double-thumbing, some three-finger style for fills. He applies the "whamming" technique for louder parts of a song and to lead an audience.

Simple is always best because the sound of the banjo really supports the voice well and you don't have to play a lot of notes.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: GUEST,JMF
Date: 21 Jun 09 - 02:12 AM

Patrick,

I had to thank you once again for the help your books have been in helping me in my playing. Especially your lessons on how to read music, that has really helped me to get going.

That leads me to another question though. There are some songs I'd like to play that just sound better with finger picking instead of strumming. Using the sheet music I have out of piano/vocal/guitar songbooks, it seems almost impossible to come up with anything that sounds decent. Do you have any tips on playing songs in this manner?

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: GUEST,JMF
Date: 22 Jun 09 - 06:04 PM

Bumping this up since it moved down so quickly!

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 09:32 AM

JMF - new question is a bit vague. You may find it more helpful to ask for suggestions of accompaniment for specific tunes. If anything useful to you comes out, you could then transfer it to similar styles of song.

There are various patterns of rolls, arpeggios, plucked chords and runs of notes which can be useful in accompaniments, but accompaniment is never "one size fits all...".
Certain techniques will suit one song, but not another. I tend to go with an approach of "If it works, use it. If it doesn't, try something else."

One of the attractions of a banjo is that often a very sparse accompaniment will enhance a song better than throwing the kitchen sink at it.

Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: GUEST,JMF
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 02:10 PM

I'm actually trying to find a way to play "Tapestry" by Don McLean. It sounds decent using the normal bump-ditty strum but the song is mostly fingerpicked. I have a Don songbook and I'm looking for a way to figure out what notes to play from the sheet music. I hope that makes a little bit more sense!

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 02:13 PM

ok,so what tempo is the song in,what tuning does Mclean use,what key is he singing/playing in.then we might be able to help.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: GUEST,JMF
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 05:13 PM

It's a fairly slow song, standard tuning, key of G.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 23 Jun 09 - 05:25 PM

JMF - It isn't a song I know, so I don't have any suggestions at this time. If time and internet allow me to hear a sample, I may have some later.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 11:48 AM

Just found the song on You Tube-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihk3Namt0pA, (although they are currently taking off a lot of copyright stuff so it might not stay there).
It isn't an easy one to hear what is happening. The vocals only seem to be loosely connected to the accompaniment, which in turn seems a bit irregular and hidden by the voice. You probably need to find someone who is more into Don McLean than I am for an interpretation on banjo.

I also found a fan's interpretation of the song on the official Don McLean web site, although a lot of the page will not display on my browsers - http://www.don-mclean.com/songsearch/viewsong.asp?id=61.
Perhaps the chords given might help, although you say you have a songbook, so presumably you already have that information, or better.

Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Songbob
Date: 24 Jun 09 - 11:52 AM

I have many, many copies of my 1976 "Old Timey Banjo Book" still cluttering up the place. It has full instructions in up-picking, down-picking, drop-thumb, and two-finger styles, plus 25 songs fully tabbed. Several teachers have used it successfully and like it.

So send me your name and address and I'll send you a book. When you get it, send me what you think it's worth, or at least what I put out in postage and the envelope, please.

This is for any and all of you who might want one, by the way.


Bob Clayton
[e-mail]

I'm also on Paypal, so you can use that to get money to me if you'd like.

I'm doing this "shareware" -- if you like it, pay for it.

Bob Clayton

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: Patrick-Costello
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 06:26 AM

Just saw the question. I don't check in here much anymore.

Anyway, to answer your question honestly I wouldn't bother with sheet music for that Don McLean song.

The thing people don't seem to understand anymore is that the banjo is A folk instrument. You take a couple of basic concepts, dork around with them over a long period of time and with a mixture of hard work, persistence and dumb luck you start to make more music than noise.

Who cares if the song is usually fingerpicked?

Just find the structure of the song (the rhythm and chord progression) and sing it. Once you have that you can start to mess around with drawing out the melody, making it fancy and all that jazz. If the song won't fit into frailing then do something else. Fingerpick it. Strum it like a uke. Swing it over your head and chase your neighbors around the front yard.

If you do have to pick up a melody from sheet music (it does happen now and then) use the notation to get the structure and basic melody. If the song won't fit into frailing then do something else. Fingerpick it. Strum it like a uke. Swing it over your head and chase your neighbors around the front yard.

-Patrick

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 07:02 AM

I would suggest a flowing ripple type accompaniment,experiment,perhaps adapt a pattern guitar finger picking,ripple.
thumb on fourth string then 321 ,occasionally pinching the 5 string,or putting in a double thumb 5 string, where appropriate,experiment,try it with an alternating thumb roll,if its in 3 /4,try3/4 guitar ripple,hitting fourth string on the firstbeat,in the end whatever sounds good

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: GUEST,JMF
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 03:13 PM

Thank you all for the tips. Here's a video of Don performing the song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG94mWgTnzA

Subject: RE: Banjo Tab
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 05:11 PM

Is there any standard way to play Talking Blues? I'd like to learn the Almanac's Talking Union but the sheet music kind of throws me for a loop.