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Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?

Deckman 08 Jan 09 - 06:06 PM
Little Robyn 08 Jan 09 - 07:43 PM
Deckman 08 Jan 09 - 08:46 PM
open mike 08 Jan 09 - 09:03 PM
Deckman 08 Jan 09 - 09:06 PM
wysiwyg 08 Jan 09 - 10:24 PM
Gurney 08 Jan 09 - 10:42 PM
Deckman 09 Jan 09 - 12:11 AM
Melissa 09 Jan 09 - 12:19 AM
open mike 09 Jan 09 - 01:48 AM
peregrina 09 Jan 09 - 04:04 AM
Deckman 09 Jan 09 - 09:05 AM
open mike 09 Jan 09 - 12:24 PM
open mike 10 Jan 09 - 01:22 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 10 Jan 09 - 01:50 AM
EBarnacle 10 Jan 09 - 10:11 PM
Deckman 11 Jan 09 - 07:34 PM
Dave Ruch 11 Jan 09 - 07:43 PM
Deckman 11 Jan 09 - 09:01 PM
johnross 11 Jan 09 - 11:04 PM
robomatic 11 Jan 09 - 11:24 PM
Acme 11 Jan 09 - 11:38 PM
Rapparee 11 Jan 09 - 11:40 PM
Acme 12 Jan 09 - 12:21 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 12 Jan 09 - 12:37 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 12 Jan 09 - 12:42 AM
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Subject: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 06:06 PM

I'm starting a two year project ... archiving about 300 reel to reel tapes of privatly (mostly) recorded folk music. As I dig into the storage boxes and explore what I've saved, I'm finding that most of the cardboard boxes that hold the seven inch reels are falling apart. I've been looking on-line a bit but I haven't found a source of new storage boxes. Does anyone have any suggestions ... I hope. Thanks, Bob(deckman)Nelson


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 07:43 PM

Bob, I think you'll have to get out the glue and make repairs to the boxes because most places that used to have RtoR tape have long ago thrown it all away.
Mitch has had to do that with his boxes - he says the glue used by librarians to mend books, is the stuff you want. And don't use tape.
But you might also find the leader tape also needs to be respliced onto your tapes but magic tape should do the job and last for another 20 years or so.
Cheers,
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 08:46 PM

Thanks ... al suggestions are welcome. Bob


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: open mike
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 09:03 PM

this place sez they have 'em
http://www.bagsunlimited.com/cart/browse.asp?subcat=587

this place says to store with tape reel vertical..
http://material-handling.globalspec.com/Industrial-Directory/open_reel_tape_recorder

when i was a kid, we had movie reels that were kept in an indexed
metal box, with a tab that would tip each cannister towrads you
perhaps some equip made for 6mm or 16mm movie reels would work for
your audio tapes?


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 09:06 PM

Thanks Laurel! bob


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 10:24 PM

I'd look around for jewelry boxes, or scarf boxes. I have liked the stuff I have gotten from Nashville Wraps-- dunno if they have your size. Small (personal-pizza-size) pizza boxes might also work.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: Gurney
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 10:42 PM

Hot-melt glue will stick cardboard, particularly corrugated board, very well indeed, should you wish to make new boxes. Not pretty, though.

As I remember, the boxes were heavy card with a paper overlay. As you have about 300 to do, perhaps a production line on the kitchen table? Most of the small boxes I've seen lately seem to be very poor quality.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: Deckman
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 12:11 AM

KITCHEN TABLE!!!! Sheeuh ... I can't even find the kitchen table. It's buried somewhere under 300 reel to reel tapes. bob


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: Melissa
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 12:19 AM

one of those packing/shipping places that have popped up everywhere might have boxes the right size..


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: open mike
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 01:48 AM

or perhaps a couple of gross of bubble wrap mailing envelopes of some sort would do the trick...

hey that pizza box just might be the ticket...

what is the diameter of the reels?

THE OTHER THING IS THAT AFTER YOU SUCCESSFULLY
DIGITIZE THESE, THE NEED FOR THE ORIGINAL TAPES
MAY BECOME HISTORY!!

What's next? transferring your 8 track tapes??!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: peregrina
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 04:04 AM

Archivists regard tapes as more stable than digitized formats or CDs.

Digital data needs to be 'migrated' at regular intervals and if the original format is 'lossy' there will be losses each time. There is also the issue of reading/playing devices and software. CDs' estimated life is only 5-10 years (yes, we all might know they can last longer, but the archival view is that they are less stable than books).

If you make boxes, investigate quality of the cardboard, tape, and glue.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: Deckman
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 09:05 AM

I'm very pleased with the responses I'm receiving to my request. I'm getting a LOT of PM's. When I have absorbed all the information, I'll probably start a new thread as an aid to other archivists.

Last night I opened another box of reel to reel tapes. I can't believe what I found ... almost laughable. I have four tapes, numbers 53 through 56, that have no boxes at all. Probably 30 years ago, I fashioned "boxes" to protect these tapes by cutting up cardboard into a "box shape" and duct taping it together. Crude, but it's held up all these years. The quality of the tapes are just fine. CHEERS and THANKS Bob Nelson


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: open mike
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 12:24 PM

what processes are you using to transfer these? good luck.
i had a r2r tape player/recorder , turn table and other equipment in prep for starting a business transferring audio from older media.

it "sounds" like you have an extensive collection!


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: open mike
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 01:22 AM

movie reel cans here:
http://members.tripod.com/~Moviecraft/supplies.html
http://www.projectormovies.com/reel/reels_cans_2.htm


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 01:50 AM

Can't help with the boxes I'm afraid, and you probably couldn't afford to import them from the UK even if I could find them!
But a couple of other (hopefully) useful tips.
1. It's worth storing the tapes "Tail-Out". This prevents print through, which can result in a pre-cho as the magnetism seeps through the wind of the tape..Comprenez??!!
If this has already happened, there's not much that can be done sadly!
2. If you have access to a variable speed machine, and have to spool through the tapes. Do it at as slow a speed as is possible. The glue that holds the oxide to the tape can either go brittle, or sticky with age, depending on tape type. and if speedily spooled, can shed the oxide, with all it's attached information. For the really important tapes, there are specialist companies that can "bake" the tapes before playing them. But you might only get one shot at the transfer before they self destruct. (Shades of Mission Impossible there!).
3. I'm sure that there are companies that still make proper splicing tape. If possible, try to remake any edits, as the glue on splicing tape is more prone to "Bleeding".

Finally, try and store the tapes in a coolish dry atmosphere, the emphasis being on dry.
Finally, again. Assuming that you are going to transfer the material to a computer initially. Make a back-up to another hard drive (preferably 2 if the material is of real worth)
Good Luck. I would estimate thet you've got about 3 Years work ahead of you!
Regards Ralphie (Owner of lots of tapes!!!)


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 10:11 PM

As with other archival issues, the danger is oxygen and other chemical attackers. Consider placing the reeled tapes in airtight baggies and then in boxes of some sort. Do not put them back into cardboard, as the sulfur in the cardboard can cause all sorts of interesting degradations, just as it does with paper.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: Deckman
Date: 11 Jan 09 - 07:34 PM

Thankyou muchly ... good suggestion. bob


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 11 Jan 09 - 07:43 PM

Deckman - I'm wondering what kind of goodies would be contained on these tapes....

Peregrina - are you saying that as we transfer "lossy" files (such as mp3s) to another medium, the lose even more, and this continues to happen each time they are transferred?


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: Deckman
Date: 11 Jan 09 - 09:01 PM

I'm discovering an amazing collection of music, all recorded at private hoots. Many (most?) of the musicians have passed on. This has been a 25 year dream of mine, to archive all this material. I've got about 300 reel to reel tapes, 400 cassette tapes, and many lineal inches of vinyl records. bob(deckman)Nelson


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: johnross
Date: 11 Jan 09 - 11:04 PM

Bob and others:

There are established standards for digital transfers from analog originals. One of the best guides is called "Sound Directions: Best Practices for Audio Preservation," from Indiana University. It's available online at http://www.dlib.indiana.edu/projects/sounddirections/papersPresent/index.shtml.

The basic issues include repair and preparation of the analog originals, cataloging and preservation of accompanying "metadata" along with the digital copies, digital audio file format, bit rate of the digital copies, and storage of the analog originals.

It's important to learn from other archives' experience, because somebody has already made most of the obvious mistakes. For example, many people have copied tapes to DATs, which turned out to be less stable than the old reel-to-reel tapes.

As for tape boxes, there are several possible sources. Somebody has already mentioned Bags Unlimited; others include US Recording, who will sell a case of 180 empty boxes: http://usrecordingmedia-store.stores.yahoo.net/quacfucaof18.html, and several archival supply places, who want a lot more for acid-free, archival quality boxes.

Don't use film cans for audio tape. They won't let moisture and other nasties escape, and the tape can eventually deteriorate. Acetate or Mylar tape is a very different kind of material from motion picture film.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Jan 09 - 11:24 PM

In the late 60's early 70's my family purchased a lot of classical music on Reel To Reel tapes. About five years ago I was involved in digitizing them. Located a reel to reel tape machine from the basement of a local radio station. Got fresh leader tape and a splicer. The quality of the most mundane tapes was excellent, particularly DECCA. London ffrr were about to delaminate. Was able to recover the music from them (Gilbert & Sullivan) by BAKING the tapes.

I agree that magnetic storage (on good quality media) is typically excellent for longevity. CDs and DVDs have yet to prove themselves. If the tapes are precious to you don't get rid of them, store 'em in a cool dry place with good drainage in case of an emergency.

The first stage of conversion is to capture the music into WAVE files. This is highest in memory intensity and in storage capacity. BUT, good hard drives are cheap these days, and you probably should keep the WAVE files while converting them to the mp3s or whatever format you want to listen to them in.

Good luck with your project.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: Acme
Date: 11 Jan 09 - 11:38 PM

Bob, you're a better man than I (so to speak): I've been intending to get to my Dad's stuff for years. Life does get in the way of plans sometimes, doesn't it? But this is really worth doing, so keep up the good example!

I think you'll find all of the archival boxes you need at Highsmith, a company that specializes in selling library materials. Even if you don't end up with an exact box per reel, you could at least keep a few at a time in an archival box.

We had an archival specialist at UTA who, in addition to rebinding books, built beautiful boxes for rare and fragile books--these are called "Library of Congress boxes." LC boxes are "for brittle books until they decide what is the next step," (this is a quote from an article I wrote about her work a few years ago). You may be able to find at a local library a book called Boxes for the Protection of Rare Books: Their Design and Construction, Library of Congress number LC 1.2:B69. This book is available through Google Books, there are several "snippet" views, but there is also a full copy of it (you would read it through the Google viewer or maybe as a PDF).

These boxes can be made any size, and you could easily make them the right size for tapes. In the long run, you want the tapes to be safe, and you could probably make these several at a time.

SRS (daughter of a librarian)


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Jan 09 - 11:40 PM

www.gaylord.com -- Gaylord Library Supplies -- has:

Boxes, Audio Tape, Clamshell, Archival, Unbuffered, Metal Edged, Barrier Board, Gaylord®

in both 7 and 11 inch sizes. I don't know the prices and you'd probably have to call and ask.

You might also try Demco and Highsmith, at the appropriate www URLs.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: Acme
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 12:21 AM

Yeah, that was another one, I couldn't think of when I rifled through a stack of stuff I've ordered over the years for preserving my collections of stuff. It would be much easier to buy them than to make them, but knowing how to make them, especially if you have an odd size, is a good thing.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 12:37 AM

Also, with so much tape to play, a hefty supply of cotton buds to clean tape heads, capstans, rollers, tape guides.
Oxide will always degrade over time, and shed it's valuable information all over your tape machine!
So, cut down the replays as much as possible.
If it's any cosolation I've got a few tapes recorded in the 1950's which still play as good as new.
If all else fails, transfer them to 78's! I've got some from the early 1900's....Maybe the folks back then knew something that we don't!

Good Luck again Ralph Jordan.


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Subject: RE: Tech: HELP ... tape boxes?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 12:42 AM

Oh Bob...
A final thought. Might be worth getting a lot of those sachets of Silica Gel. (You quite often find them in newly purchased electonic equipment) to suck up any water vapour in your packaging!


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