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fRoots magazine and folk clubs
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: The Sandman Date: 15 May 09 - 05:59 AM I am still a member of the Froots Forum. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 14 May 09 - 07:45 PM Maybe I should just shut down every thread that shows the slightest hint of animosity, and maybe then people would learn to discuss things in a civil manner. According to a posting a couple of days ago on the Froots Forum where the subject of this fracas came up, a total of four people are banned from there and two of them are posting on this thread. It's very quiet and civilised on the FF. Draw your own conclusions! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: matt milton Date: 14 May 09 - 06:49 PM ...and .believe you me, far, far, far worse squabbling, petulance, name-calling and indeed bigotry hatefulness, pettiness and general nonsense is par for the course on the majority of music message boards in other genres elsewhere on t'Interweb. You think this thread is bad? Pah, water off a duck's back. You should see some of the things said on quietus or urban75 or ihatemusic or ukhh or wherever... Just to add my tuppenceworth on what appears to be Ms Cornish's chief issue with fRoots magazine - namely its zippy and often waspish thumbnail reviews. Personally, I like em very much. I think they are a valuable dose of no-nonsense opinionated straight-talk in a folk music culture that generally prefers to wrap its practitioners in cotton wall. And anyway, the fact that those bitesize reviews exist at all means that many more acts get their work discussed in an international mag that don't in any other publication. So even if they get a bad review, it's one more review than they have got anywhere else. (Personally I think music criticism of folks and roots music across the globe is much much much too patronisingly cosy and nicey and toothless and all-friends-together, but that's another thread entirely...) I don't imagine for a second that any kind of "campaign" has ever been waged by either fRoots magazine as a whole, or by Ian Anderson (or anyone else for that matter) as individuals, against any musicians at all.They've got better things to do, such as getting on with shouting about the music they like. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: glueman Date: 14 May 09 - 06:20 PM Only 3 or 4 people cause the grief, unfortunately they all hang out on Mudcat. In real life the apocalyptic horsemen inhabit few establishments so are easy to avoid. No chance of a fundamentalist tent at festivals to go with the chilled zone and jigs and reels marquee - yet. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: katlaughing Date: 14 May 09 - 05:47 PM Joe, I think they get all of their agro out online, then they ARE nice to one another in the 3D world.**bg** |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 14 May 09 - 05:41 PM "I have not met and do not know Lizzie Cornish though I did just look at your MySpace page. It should be "Gandhi", by the way...." Thank ooo very much, Norman. I've just put it round the right way. Dyslexia in action again... :0) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Joe Offer Date: 14 May 09 - 04:31 PM theleveller, is it your impression that US folkies carry guns? [grin] -Joe, who's scared of 'em (guns, not folkies)- |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Frozen Gin (inactive) Date: 14 May 09 - 03:08 PM This thread lost its way and should have been shut down the moment the gratuitous attacks began plus the link to a website where similar personal attacks took place (are still taking place?) Evil and Deceitful is wee bit strong I think, but it is indicative of the spitefulness of some toward others and my reading material includes: fRoots English Dance & Song Rock 'n' Reel covers my musical bases pretty well, I believe |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Banjiman Date: 14 May 09 - 03:02 PM Do you know, I don't think I've ever seen an argument anywhere in the British Folk Scene..... except on discussion forums. I'm not sure what this means but there you go. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: theleveller Date: 14 May 09 - 03:00 PM Joe, just be thankful that we don't all carry guns. Honestly, this is a much more civilised way to behave - hardly anyone gets killed (I'm here as living testament to that) :0 |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Joe Offer Date: 14 May 09 - 03:00 PM
-Joe- |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: TheSnail Date: 14 May 09 - 02:44 PM Joe, nothing on this thread bears the slightest resemblance to anything that happens on the "British Folk Scene". Just off to see Kevin and Ellen Mitchell at The Royal Oak. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Joe Offer Date: 14 May 09 - 02:33 PM I'd like to repeat my previous comments about UK folkies eating their young. Do you folks ever get together and enjoy each other's music, or do you just get together to brawl? Lighten up, people. Try to act like you're civilized and intelligent. Or is it true that the "British Folk Scene" is just a bunch of loonies? I'm not going to try to figure out who's right and who's wrong in a situation like this. All I know is that this thread, like so many others, is beyond what one would consider to be civil discussion. I just can't figure out what to do about this endless British squabbling. I get all sorts of complaints about so-and-so being Evil and Deceitful, but it looks to me like you're ALL evil and deceitful. Maybe I should just shut down every thread that shows the slightest hint of animosity, and maybe then people would learn to discuss things in a civil manner. If you have suggestions, contact me by personal message. I'm not going to close this thread - yet. If you wish to discuss fRoots Magazine and folk clubs, do so - but do it civilly. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: irishenglish Date: 14 May 09 - 02:23 PM Ah another contentious thread on Mudcat. I agree with the wise words of one Judy Dyble, without reviewing every word in this thread, fRoots has carried on reviewing musical forms and artists that are, by and large, thrown into that great pile of "other" music in most record stores. I have been impressed by the evolution of the magazine, since I first started looking at it here in the U.S. in the early 90's. I don't always agree with their assesment of the next big thing, or certain reviews, or quite frankly some of his editorials. I DO however appreciate that we have a magazine that covers those "other" forms of music in a nice package, and looks great. I am a fan of much roots music, on a global scale. fRoots is the best choice in magazine for me therefore, as others have suggested, there are other choices for a more British Isles-centric music magazine. Given a choice between SOnglines, Global Rhythm and fRoots, I'll take fRoots every time. And much like NOrman D, I have no affiliation with any magazine. The one thing that used to irk me about fRoots is the abundance of pics, and inclusion of 20 year old tracks on some of the freebie cd's of Mr. Anderson's various bands over the years! Play nice people, its just a magazine-not the fucking bible! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 14 May 09 - 12:33 PM "Absolutely agree with you Vic" Sadly Lizzie, if your postings actually equated with your statement, I suspect that Vic wouldn't have felt the need to make the comments that he did. <<<< Irene, you've been telling me orf for years. Please...do put a folkie sock in it, there's a good girl. Yeesh! It's great, seeing the dawning of the day begin to rise in the eyes of the innocent... :0) I told you, Ian loves it all, bad news, good news, he laps it up. He's a very mischievious little munchkin on the quiet, with a good sense of humour...and....an OFF button. LOL |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Frozen Gin (inactive) Date: 14 May 09 - 12:09 PM You mean these three and a half lines? "BTW, I'm not grinding my own axe- I've retired from the circuit for now owing to pressures of work. But there are some astoundingly good new performers around, and it's a pity that the one national magazine in the UK chooses to ignore them." I,m awaiting the fRoots hordes to come thundering in to defend Fortress Anderson against The Paranoids (sounds like a Dr. Who alien) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 14 May 09 - 12:02 PM Re-read first post. Especially last line. Ah. Hits forehead again. Do you mean we've got the T.B. Blues? |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 14 May 09 - 11:59 AM I'm still wondering if we've been set up by F.R. - if you see what I mean - no such thing as bad publicity etc. And there's me being supportive. Oh, 200 |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Frozen Gin (inactive) Date: 14 May 09 - 11:38 AM Folknacious, that link hadn't occurred to me, but......no I think it may well be some very familiar to mudcat regualrs and probably familiar to posters on the fRoots Come Write Me Down threads. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Spleen Cringe Date: 14 May 09 - 11:37 AM I think Faye is real enough. She's been posting here since last year. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Frozen Gin (inactive) Date: 14 May 09 - 11:35 AM Nice video from youtube featuring Essex Longsword Girls on the English Dance & Song web page |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 14 May 09 - 11:31 AM I get the idea that this Faye Roche character is someone well known to regular mudcat thread users. The only references to "Faye Roche", when you Google the name, all lead back to this thread.... I don't believe in coincidence. Light dawns - hits forehead. Faye Roche - Folk Roots - FR. No, I don't believe in coincidences either. Have we all been trolled? |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 14 May 09 - 11:18 AM The postman came while I was out. Morris dancers on the cover again, I see. And not one but two features on cute young folk awards winners. And an encouragement to join the EFDSS. Somebody out there will be complaining on a world music blog that there aint enough African music in it. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Frozen Gin (inactive) Date: 14 May 09 - 11:14 AM I get the idea that this Faye Roche character is someone well known to regular mudcat thread users. The only references to "Faye Roche", when you Google the name, all lead back to this thread.... I don't believe in coincidence. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: theleveller Date: 14 May 09 - 11:02 AM I agree Cap'n Sparrow. Not since the Munich conference in 1938 has there been such a complete meeting of minds. I look forward to Peace in Our Time. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow Date: 14 May 09 - 10:56 AM I think we've all arrived at a very special place. Spiritually, ecumenically, grammatically. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Surreysinger Date: 14 May 09 - 10:31 AM "Absolutely agree with you Vic" Sadly Lizzie, if your postings actually equated with your statement, I suspect that Vic wouldn't have felt the need to make the comments that he did. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 14 May 09 - 09:54 AM 1] It is possible to have discussions and move points forward without reconsidering the same points repeatedly. 2] Some things would be best left to be resolved by private email rather than public forum outrage Absolutely agree with you, Vic. May I politely suggest you tell Ian exactly that as well. Then it would stop him from having to mention me 'out of the blue' on his site, from time to time. Thank ooo... Glad to see your'youre'you're paying attention, diane. ;0) "Now tell me' " (she said gently, as she eased her patient back into the examination chair) "when did this infatuation with apostrophe's firs't begin to manif'est it'self?" |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 14 May 09 - 09:44 AM Oh dear, what's that poor bloke Mr Broughton done to deserve this sort of "support"? Doen't he have enough problems trying and failing to get Songlines to keep up. editorially, with fRoots? There's are two things you call always rely on throughout madlizziecornish's most demented and barking rantings: (1) the inability to recognise the difference between "imply" and "infer", & (2) the consistent use of a greengrocer's apostrophe in the pronoun "its". |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Vic Smith Date: 14 May 09 - 09:43 AM Lizzie, Thank you very much for your kind and well-considered comments about me in the posting above. However, I would ask you to re-read the following two pieces of advice that I gave above and apply them to your own postings. I refer to the posting where I wrote:- 1] It is possible to have discussions and move points forward without reconsidering the same points repeatedly. 2] Some things would be best left to be resolved by private email rather than public forum outrage |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: TheSnail Date: 14 May 09 - 09:40 AM Thanks, Vic. See you this evening. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Vic Smith Date: 14 May 09 - 09:28 AM Bryan Creer wrote:- Could you lend me your copy of the magazine, Vic? Yes |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 14 May 09 - 09:24 AM Vic, I appreciate that you write for fRoots, and therefore you feel beholden to defend the magazine and Ian at all times. I'd not use the word 'grovelling' here, as that would be rude, so let's just use 'loyalty' here instead, shall we. Good to see loyalty. But, please understand that over the years, fRoots and it's editor have upset more than a few people with things they have published and their 'in yer face' attitude. If you choose to run a magazine along the lines of "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn!", then you have to put up with people going ape-shit now and then. What goes around, comes around. I'm not bitter towards Ian, frankly I couldn't give a shite either way about fRoots, couldn't even be arsssssssssed to write about the piece he did on Show of Hands recently. I took one look at the photos he'd used, noticed he'd used one from waaaaaay back, one that I took him to task for on the old BBC board, and smiled...realising that he was sending out a little message there...I chose to ignore it completely, mainly because my nose is way too busy buried inside 'Songlines' to give a shite. I know how it feels though, to have things written about you that aren't true, and then to be stopped from replying to those things. It's a form of bullying, in my book..and if Dick is getting upset, well, maybe he has a right to. Indeed, it wasn't so long ago that Ian let Diane infer that I was racist, on his board. It was only when I said I'd kick his arss from here to kingdom come if he didn't remove it, that he let me put a message on there...although, of course, being Ian, he 'edited' it for me...How kind. (rolls eyes up to heaven) Some editors love to control. That's what their boards are about. Only those who bow and kowtow to those kind of editors are permitted on there. Only those who want to bow and kowtow WANT to go there in the first place, usually for their own ends, particularly if they're musicians of course, always hoping that the Great God Editor will smile kindly on their begging bowl... If you build your reputation upon being shitty to various artists, encouraging the most putrid reviews of CDs and bringing your scathing ARSS campaign over to other boards, then don't be surprised if your ARSS gets kicked, hard, over and over. And you don't have to worry, or lick editor's bums any more, because some editors truly don't give a shite about shite...So there you go. And now, I'll leave all the ARSS lickers to carry on in this thread with their "Oh, MY, HOW can *anyone* be so beastly about fRoots when it's the most wonderful magazine on the planet?" Yeah, right! I'm off to take a look in here... SONGLINES MAGAZINE SONGLINES MYSPACE |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Gedi Date: 14 May 09 - 08:27 AM Thank you Vic for outlining all this nonsense so clearly. I have to say I've read all the above with some bemusement (and amusement!)and your post has clarified things somewhat. That people could hijack a thread so completely and rake up what is clearly a very old greivance which has nothing to do with the current opening post strikes me as being bizarre in the least. Clearly a lot of unresolved bitterness there! Can we please calm things down, cut out all this unpleasantness and name calling etc, etc, and return to a sensible discussion? For what its worth I have never read this or any other publication on folk music but I think the idea of some kind of internet blog or similar might be good. But hang on, isn't that what Mudcat does??? cheers Ged |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: TheSnail Date: 14 May 09 - 08:08 AM Er, um, sorry to drag this thread back towards the topic but any chance of a response to my posting of 12 May 09 - 08:36 PM? Bearded Fundamentalist spokesperson for the FLF (Folkistan Liberation Front not to be confused with the FLF - Front for the Liberation of Folkistan) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 14 May 09 - 08:04 AM So is Faye Roche a real person or a nuisance-maker then? An agent-provocateur from FolkClubs-R-Us Monthly monthly? Or an anagram? Maybe the person who suggested this thread had leaked from Mud-e-celidh knows something we don't? Maybe s/he knows where we live and all our houses are being burgled while we're glued to our screens. I'm going out for some fresh air, and locking the door behind me. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Vic Smith Date: 14 May 09 - 07:56 AM this is the review,it clearly states,this review was written by James O Donnell for froots. and it was clearly explained to you at the time that a] this was a pseudonym and that b] it never appeared in fRoots in the first place in spite of the claim on the website. This is old ground that has been covered and explained. Can we please move on? Then there was:- I am still waiting for an apology,and as you very well know I was right. Well, the matter has been satisfactorily elucidated and carefully explained by a number of postings above, if anyone has the tolerence to read through them. After more than one hundred posts, we are still getting things like..... the Froots editor got very angry with me for daring to send in a post criticising a review ,accused me publicly of hallucinating,and other similiar remarks. the editor of Froots is well able to explain what happened,but has not even had the decency to apologise. and then I never accused Ian of writing the review,I criticised his magazine for publishing it. I owe no one an apology,every person has a right to write about a review to the editor of any magazine /newspaper. But, as has been explained to you, this never actually appeared in fRoots and the person who actually wrote it under a pseudonym is yet another person that you have one of your pointless public disputes with. and then this review quite clearly states[and still did so last night]that it first appeared in Froots. But as was carefully explained to you at the time, this review did not appear in fRoots (though I have established that it was submitted but never published). The website that claims that it was published in that magazine was wrong at the time and it still wrong. and then again I was led to believe it appeared in froots[as anyone else would have been].because it stated it appeared in froots But early on in the postings at the time, it was explained to you that what you were led to believe was wrong, yet you persisted in accusing the editor of printing a review that you did not approve of in spite of the fact that you had been told that the review never appeared. (I hope all Mudcat users are reading this carefully and taking notes, because there will be exam questions on this alongside Explain the reasons for the outbreak of the First World War which are slightly less complicated) and then James O'Donnell James O'Driscoll Neither person exists. One is one of your very common mistakes, the other as was explained to you at the time is a pseudonym. You know who it really is because this has been explained to you, but I won't name him here because it is another of the people that you don't like, so you will probably end up being rude about him here. Well, there are others that I could quote, but I feel that I have made my point. However, I would like the person who wrote all of the italicised quotations above to consider three things:- 1] It is possible to have discussions and move points forward without reconsidering the same points repeatedly. 2] Some things would be best left to be resolved by private email rather than public forum outrage 3] There are people who use Mudcat who do not subscribe to the Dickmiles-o-centric Universe Theory and would like to see a broader discussion taking place on a public internet group such as this. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Leadfingers Date: 14 May 09 - 06:44 AM I did a back check and Faye Roche has started a number of contentious threads and then never added anything to them ! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: theleveller Date: 14 May 09 - 06:34 AM "Request to return to topic re-seconded" Awwwww .... as we used to say when I played rugby: "Sod the ball, let's get on with the game". |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 14 May 09 - 06:28 AM Anyway, back in the real world - the initial poster has been conspicuously quiet. Has she picked up the issue that the editorial she referred to was taken from? If so, does she still think that fRoots ignores new talent from England? I asked this about three thousand posts further up this dismal thread, but lots of irrelevant Captainbabble has got in the way. Request to return to topic re-seconded. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Squiggle Date: 14 May 09 - 06:14 AM So, to sum up a) you've repeatedly accused Ian of calling you a drug taker (he didn't) b) you've repeatedly lashed out at him for printing a review you didn't agree with (he didn't) and you expect an apology for this? Anyway, back in the real world - the initial poster has been conspicuously quiet. Has she picked up the issue that the editorial she referred to was taken from? If so, does she still think that fRoots ignores new talent from England? |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Jack Campin Date: 14 May 09 - 06:11 AM why hasnt Ian contacted the reviewer and told him to remove froots name from the article.[he has had 11 months to do so] How do you know he hasn't? It's very difficult to get a website in a foreign country to take stuff down. (I don't know where www.irishmusicreview.com is hosted and I very much doubt you do). I've repeatedly tried to get plagiarisms of my work taken off the net and have never succeeded with any of them. And why the byline on the article should matter so much to you I can't imagine. You seemed to think it was fine if Geoff Wallis had written it, unacceptable if it was by James O'Donnell. (I've never heard of either of them). If the authorship is so important there's something you're not telling us. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: The Sandman Date: 14 May 09 - 06:10 AM correction, James O Donnell |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Smedley Date: 14 May 09 - 05:56 AM "Really, isn't it time to stop this absurd nonsense? " No!!! I haven't laughed so much in ages. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 14 May 09 - 05:37 AM Who is this James O'Driscoll? The first quote you made above said it was by James O'Donnell. Are you just making this stuff up? Or hallucinating? Has anybody seen any marbles? Really, isn't it time to stop this absurd nonsense? |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: The Sandman Date: 14 May 09 - 05:20 AM Folknacious,they were all good reviews. guest Squiggle, If he had replied politely,and allowed the thread,to be discussed[instead of closing it], and explained this ,instead of overreacting and being rude,this would have been clearer. instead people[as I was] were and still are being misled into thinking this was a review that appeared in froots[it clearly states this article appeared in froots] why hasnt Ian contacted the reviewer and told him to remove froots name from the article.[he has had 11 months to do so] I first saw this article on www.session.org Folknacious is quite wrong,my reason for objecting to the review,was because it was such a hatchet job, at the time I had no idea who james O driscoll was,I just thought it was a disgraceful review. members of the public should have every right to contact an editor and complain,without being treated with contempt and arrogance. I was led to believe it appeared in froots[as anyone else would have been].because it stated it appeared in froots |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Judy Dyble Date: 14 May 09 - 05:15 AM Well, I have got completely tangled up reading this lot, but I would still like to add my congratulations to Mr Anderson for keeping fRoots going for 30 years..magazines don't keep going for that long without getting something right and on the few occasions I have managed to get my hands on one, I have been very impressed by the quality and far-ranging content. Yes I was the subject of an article in one issue and I was surprised and delighted to be in it.. So well done Ian.. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Squiggle Date: 14 May 09 - 05:02 AM Yes Dick - but what you're failing to grasp is that the website might say it was written for fRoots, but the editor of the magazine (a more reliable source) says they never printed it and he'd never seen it till you pointed the website out to him. You were (and still are) attacking the magazine for publishing something that they never published. As people have said above - axes to grind. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Banjiman Date: 14 May 09 - 05:02 AM "a drug-addled hippie with hash-induced Alzheimer's" Dick, I know some people who would take that as a compliment! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 14 May 09 - 04:41 AM This review by James O'Donnell was written for fRoots magazine – www.frootsmag.org. That's not Froots' web site URL, and although I'm a regular reader I don't recognise that reviewer name among those that appear in the magazine. Hallucinating or hoodwinked, who cares? You are pursuing a deranged, obsessive vendetta against somebody who didn't write this review, regardless of where it appeared. Interestingly, I just checked the Froots on-line reviews index and I see 5 albums by Dick Miles were reviewed in early issues, way back before I have copies. Would somebody out there like to check to see what they said and who wrote them? Then maybe we can really get to the bottom of what festering sore this loopy campaign is all about. |
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