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fRoots magazine and folk clubs
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Matthew Edwards Date: 13 May 09 - 08:50 AM I'll second your motion of congratulations to fRoots; I've been a subscriber off and on for some years although I've lapsed from time to time. However this thread has served to remind me just how much the magazine has been a force for the good over the years, and helped me to discover music I didn't know about as well as providing additional insight into singers and musicians I already knew of. If there was a magazine that pandered only to my blinkered prejudices it would be too boring even for me to read! I've renewed my subscription today, but I hope I'll be spared Greg's full frontal on any future covers. This thread is indeed most weird - some of the posts remind me of the poor bus driver who went off the rails - I have no idea what they are driving at. Matthew Edwards |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: SteveMansfield Date: 13 May 09 - 08:45 AM This is all getting quite weird. It's alright, it's just that the transdimensional polarising membrane between Mudcat and Mud-e-ceilidh has broken down again. One of the maintenance crews will be round in a minute or two. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Spleen Cringe Date: 13 May 09 - 08:24 AM "This is all getting quite weird" Ain't that the truth. And for the record, CONGRATULATIONS to Ian Anderson and all the staff at fRoots for producing an excellent and informative and well written magazine for the last 30 years. Not only that, but you've remained true to your mission. In this era of corporate buyouts and pressure to dumb down and compromise, that really is some acheivement. Cheers! 'Ere's to the next 30! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Banjiman Date: 13 May 09 - 08:10 AM This is all getting quite weird. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 13 May 09 - 08:04 AM "It would be very pleasant, though unlikely, that this thread could be turned into just such a celebration." Yes, it would, wouldn't it...but sadly, Ian's managed to make so many people fume that he's created exactly this kind of thread. He loves doing that, so I'm really not worried about him reading this, it'll send him into orgasmic chuckles, I've no doubt...but that's what fRoots is about, not giving a damn. Ho hum. And er...sorry guys, but much as you can throw as many quotes as you want at me about how incredibly supportive of Show of Hands, Ian has been, many of us are fully aware that the exact opposite was true, until recently. Trust me, you had to have been a poster on the old BBC F&A board to understand this. It was where Diane, Ian and I got into some flaming rows over his attitude to musicians that he deemed not of his world, and Seth's entry to the Mercury Award was put into jeopordy by er....two people who know exactly who they were, one of whom is on this very thread... I have no doubt, as I've said many a time, that had one of the more 'traditional' singers been entered into the Mercury Award, under the exact same circumstances, then none of that would ever have happened, just a mountain of support from those two people concerned. There are some magazine editors who love 'control'...they also love 'control' on their messageboard too, which is why certain messageboards have the same small incestuous group of people all bowing and kowtowing to the Holy Editor. Strangely, I choose not to write on such boards, even though it's real easy to get back on again, despite said Holy Editor almost blowing up half of his posters in an effort to ensure I couldn't get back...which gave me many orgasmic chuckles too! :0) Jon, you were fed a total lie about 'trolls' by fiona, now no longer with us, who started this whole 'troll' business up after I became the focus of her grief, following the death of her father. Ask the Longdogs, they were there when it started to happen. She targeted you, and you fell for it. Up until that time, you and I used to write to one another as friends from time to time, outside the BBC board, as I recall. You chose to stop that and join in with her campaign. That was your freedom of choice, same as it was for all the others who chose to follow. It was only in the latter part of fiona's time on that board, the very latter, that she realised, how she'd made me feel, after Diane and I both, at the same time, asked her to stop stirring things up. Then when Ralph Jordan & Co, started their ganging up, she asked him, on the board, to stop. He chose not to of course. Those posts are still there should you want to look at them, in the 'Dave Gilmour - Living on an Island' thread waaaaaaaaay back. For now though, I'll leave you all to keep pressing the complaints button on the BBC board, every time you hunt me down and think you've found me.. but please bear in mind that it's now in the hands of the Mail on Sunday who hopefully will be looking into exactly what happened on that board, and why it was allowed to continue for so bloody long. And, just ask yourselves why you did it in the first place...because I spoke about more music, more musicians, more radio programmes etc..etc..etc..than most of you put together. Oh...and if John Leonard is out there, I'm still waiting for him to return my phone call. I spoke to Vic, very nice chap, and he told me that John would hopefully get back to me. I'm waiting, same as I've been waiting for YEARS for the BBC Investigations Deptartment to come and investigate. I'll put the kettle on. And nope, Joe, I'm not taking this any further, and if you want to zap this message I fully understand why. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: matt milton Date: 13 May 09 - 07:26 AM "he made references to hallucinating,amongst other things In fact,I was not hallucinating" this really did make me laugh out loud. Has anyone hear ever listened to Count Arthur Strong on Radio 4? |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Vic Smith Date: 13 May 09 - 06:23 AM Tug the Cox wrote let Show of hands enjoy their success..... They are not just sitting back and enjoying their success, they have come up with a superb list of guidelines for young performers that would emulate them. How did I find out about these guidelines? Well, I read them on a link provided in the fRoots Forum under a thread entitled SOH's business plan for young folk bands You can read them at http://froots.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4431. Who was thoughtful enough to post this threas provide this invaluable information? It was someone called Ian Anderson. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Brian Peters Date: 13 May 09 - 06:13 AM I've contributed a number of articles to fROOTS over the years, including pieces on Pete Coe, Chris Coe, Roy Harris, Rod Stradling, John Kirkpatrick and The Devil's Interval (all of which Ian printed with enthusiasm and without editorial intervention), as well as an examination of the British folk club scene which the editor himself commissioned. As far as the British tradition goes, fROOTS has covered the Coppers more than once, Gordon Hall, Fred Jordan, Willie Scott and Sheila Stewart, to name but a few. And it is a very well-produced and professional product despite (I suspect) running on the proverbial shoestring. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Tug the Cox Date: 13 May 09 - 06:10 AM You've got to laugh! ( the alternative doesn't bear serious consideration). TYo quote the Beatles, let it be, let ian run his magazine in his way, let Show of hands enjoy their success, and for the sado-masochistic sub group who seem to get off on venom and vitriol, keep it to yerselves. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: evansakes Date: 13 May 09 - 06:03 AM For goodness sake you lot....can't you give it a rest?! Innuendo, bitterness, resentment, axe-grinding, chips on shoulders, age-old rivalries re-ignited, point scoring, nit-picking, griping, moaning etc Is that REALLY what it's all about? :-( Thoroughly depressing from beginning to end. There's a lot of good music out there....you don't have to like it all. Lots of great venues too....you don't have to go to them all. Plenty of music magazines too....you don't have to read them all. Simples! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Will Fly Date: 13 May 09 - 05:59 AM Ralphie, you imp! Where have you been...? You've not been with that there Surreysinger, by any chance, have you? |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Ralphie Date: 13 May 09 - 05:53 AM Just found this thread! What larks! All the usual suspects banging on. I'm with Mr Smith. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,cav Date: 13 May 09 - 05:32 AM If you don't like a magazine don't buy it - I, for example, don't by hundreds of them. If you don't buy a magazine but read it for free and don't like it - don't read it again. If you buy a magazine and have a point to make about its content - write to the editor. But don't shit-stir on an internet forum. It is not difficult. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Smedley Date: 13 May 09 - 05:23 AM The kind of article you're proposing would be of interest to some, Jack, but those of us unable to strap on a back-pack and get hiking wouldn't really be able to relate to it very well (it would be like looking at someone else's "what I did on my holidays" essay). By concentrating on performers who have recorded music that's (relatively) widely available, the magazine offers its readers a chance to evaluate the writing in the context of music they can actually hear. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Vic Smith Date: 13 May 09 - 05:22 AM The next issue of fRoots - June 2009 No. 311 - will see the magazine celebrating 30 years of continuous publication during which time it has been edited by the same person leading a small dedicated team. It has never failed to meet its deadlines and been a source of inspiration and information to thousands of people all over the world. In the current recession where many independent British magazines have already gone to the wall, it will be a minor miracle if it survives at all with the way that things are going in terms of the cuts in advertisers' budgets . If fRoots does fail - and I don't know but I would imagine that it is hanging on by its fingernails at the the moment, then Britain will have lost one of its finest independent magazines of any nature along with one of the folk scene's best sources of support and sponsorship. In 2006, when I was setting up and tour managing the long Britain-wide Shirley Collins "America Over The Water" tour, I tentatively approached Ian Anderson for a reduction in the cost of advertising space for the tour. His response was to give us large prominent adverts in several editions for free. We offered him free tickets for the tour's culminating show at London's South Bank. He replied saying he would have loved to have come but that he was so near the deadline that he couldn't spare the evening off. I know that my experience is not unique and that fRoots has sponsored many tours, festivals, events with free advertisments. If any thread were to appear at this time, it should be one that celebrates the manifold achievements of this decades-long beacon of excellence rather than narrow-minded sniping over content that supports particular favourites or repeated mis-information about small-minded disputes. Even, if people don't like the direction that the magazine has moved in, there should be a recognition that half a lifetime has gone into a magazine that has set the standards for what can be acheived in this field. It would be very pleasant, though unlikely, that this thread could be turned into just such a celebration. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Will Fly Date: 13 May 09 - 05:17 AM At the risk of being repetitive (Lizzie, if by chance you're reading the thread), I haven't seen or spoken to or corresponded with Ian for over 40 years. I'm just conscious of what he's achieved - whether those achievements are good or bad is in the eye of the beholder. Quite simply, to use personal criticism of his own music as a way of criticising his publication (which was what Dick did in his post, from personal motives) is not an approach of any value. It's a small point, granted, but an important one. Is that clear enough? The thread is about the content and coverage and relevance of fRoots magazine. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Jon Date: 13 May 09 - 05:14 AM Lizzie, if you mean for example I think you troll. I'm, happy to stick with that opinion. I don't see what it has to do with my and other's abilty to find common musical ground in a pub though. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Jack Campin Date: 13 May 09 - 05:03 AM Ian Anderson used to post to uk.music.folk, and ticked quite a few people off when explaining (or not) why fRoots didn't cover the UK folk club and session scene. I wasn't particularly bothered about that, since there are always other ways to find out about what's going on here and I agreed with Ian that detailed coverage would be a waste of trees. I was more bothered about the magazine not covering similar scenes elsewhere. I've travelled a lot round Europe over the last 25 years, and my knowledge of the languages and musical cultures of the places I've been to has been quite variable. I can read French quite well but don't have any idea how to locate something like a traditional music session in France. I hardly know any Hungarian but can do much better there. I know even less Croatian or Slovak but got lucky a few times in Croatia, Bosnia and Slovakia; I'll be in Montenegro this autumn but have no reason to suppose I'll get lucky again. So the main thing I want in a magazine that purports to cover the traditional music of the world is where to find the stuff in the wild. fRoots doesn't attempt to provide that information, or didn't last time I looked at it. I once asked Ian if he'd like an article about the music in a place I was thinking of going to that isn't much written about; he replied that I'd have to suggest recordings to go along with it. Since the locals have been more preoccupied in the last few years with getting their electricity working again, fixing broken windows and covering shellholes with tarpaulin than with running recording studios, that wasn't an option. It seemed that fRoots's policy was that genres that weren't represented on CD would never be covered. I wasn't expecting a detailed guide to the best bars for singalongs in Reunion or a directory of fluteplaying shepherds in Kurdistan, but there are ways to present that sort of information without coming across as a complete anorak. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Smedley Date: 13 May 09 - 05:02 AM Would it be considered unduly inflammatory to suggest that the term 'incredibly talented musicians' is a smidgeon on the subjective side, and therefore open to disagreement and debate ? |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Squiggle Date: 13 May 09 - 04:57 AM Lizzie, Show of hands were first featured in fRoots in issue 151, which by my calculation was 14 years ago. Seth first appeared with the Lakeman brothers in issue 134, then again with Equation issue 141. That was 16 years ago. Just throwing some facts in... But I'm sure that won't deter you. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Jack Blandiver Date: 13 May 09 - 04:53 AM I realised the other day that the only magazines I buy these days are non-music (Private Eye & Fortean Times) though I do check Mojo, Wire, fRoots, Living Tradition, The Storyteller, Home Organist, The Improvising Crwth Player, Gramophone, etc. during our protracted browsing sessions in Borders. I suppose I get most of my music needs on-line & I was always wary of Folk Roots inclinations towards music as a commodity anyway, much less an exotic commodity, which tended to trivialise things even back in 1990. My letter in the Jan/Feb 1991 number, for example, was an irked response at them featuring Mauritanian Griots on the cover and only giving them a single page article inside. Maybe things are better now? Let's hope so. Still, I did get to mention Sun Ra and Jim Eldon in the same sentence, although they wrongly detected the influence of James Joyce (as oppose to a far more evident Mark E. Smith) in my writing style. I note that a letter to WIRE at the same time were a whole lot more placid, and deserving of a bottle of Jim Beam! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 13 May 09 - 04:49 AM Oh, *u*k the grammar, SC. 'We' as in you and me, all of us.....non-excluding, inclusive, without barriers, walls or divisions! THAT is Show of Hands way... Got it? Good... And by the way, I do Elizabethan English, the 1st, not the 2nd, plural or singular, upside down, or back to front.. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 13 May 09 - 04:47 AM Oh do me a favour, Jon! Stop being so hypocritical. Go back and read some of your posts about me on the BBC board, many of them...and then think on this....that despite so many negative comments about me, I have never responded to you in kind. I have ALWAYS had an open mind to music, you know that. I have also had an open mind to how and what people write and to freedom of expression, never once telling anyone the things that you have told me over the years.. Incredibly talented musicians should NOT have to endure what some had to, from Diane and Ian. End of story. And I have *no* respect for those who cannot see that. Will, you should find out more. Just because someone is an old friend of yours does not excuse appalling behaviour. And now, I'm outta this thread. I've said what needs to be said, from my point of view. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Spleen Cringe Date: 13 May 09 - 04:42 AM Lizzie, um... "we" and "us" are both expressions of the second person plural. As is "our". As in "we would like you to join with us in listening to our favourite music." F'rinstance. Good sense from the redoubtable Monsieur Le Mouche as ever. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Jon Date: 13 May 09 - 04:35 AM The battle of convincing me say Roots is a folk song might never be won, at least not by arguing in a forum. The battle of the us and them bars probably does not need winning. OK, we may at times tuck ourselves away in different corners but I'd find the idea that say Mr Beer, Diane and I could not find a way of having a pint and perhaps even a song or tune together difficult to imagine. There must be something there we all enjoy. Can we all run to a 3 Round 3? I think, Lizzie, you get in the way of finding where the common ground exists, rather than encouraging it. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Will Fly Date: 13 May 09 - 03:50 AM I've no interest in any "battle of Show of Hands", and I'm not particularly bothered in knowing more. My point - perhaps not made clearly enough - was that the thread topic was about the nature of fRoots magazine. There's nothing wrong with being critical about a publication's idealogoy, look, feel, contents, etc. To make pejorative remarks about the editor's musical ability because of a personal grudge that some of us know nothing whatsoever about, and care even less about, and which is repeated ad nauseam every tme that editor's name appears in Mudcat, is not an argument. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Spleen Cringe Date: 13 May 09 - 03:40 AM Peddling myths again, I see. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 13 May 09 - 03:25 AM "It's certainly not one I would agree with myself; my position remains that the one thing I dislike about SoH is certainly not those two nice chaps themselves but their output as a band." And you are perfectly entitled to that opinion. We all like different things in life. What is not on is for some people to go out of their way to malign any artist/s for years and years and years, to the point where they even try to damage the careers of those artists when it comes to Awards etc. The whole damn fiasco that surrounded certain artists was unbelievable, totally unbelievable and very wrong. And to be honest, I'd have *such* respect for those who took part in it, if they had the guts to stand up and say it was wrong, and that they were sorry. "Many agree, while some who came across them the week before last and regard them as some sort of pop idols do not." There are a *few* people in the traditional part of the folk world who may agree. Those are the ones who prefer to drink in the bar named 'Us'. Those who love the music of Show of Hands drink in a very inclusive bar, labelled 'We', where ALL are welcome, where ALL songs are sung, where all accents are acceptable and where 'the music' reaches out, far beyond the radar, to a world of thousands who are finding their way to folk, acoustic and traditional music, because of Show of Hands and all the other artists who now surround them. The Battle of Show of Hands has finally been won, Diane, by Steve and Phil, themselves. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 13 May 09 - 03:14 AM Er...I don't have 'radar'....that's the whole point...and yours and Ian's 'campaign' against certain artists on the BBC board, which reached into the world of folk magazines itself, where other editors stood UP for certain artists and decried what you two were up to, spoke volumes. Colin Irwin has also finally seen 'the light'..as have fRoots who decided to print the article. Ian has seen the light over Seth too..and I'm not going down the road of 'commercialism' again, thinking that even fRoots use Seth to sell their magazine, as I'm sure that no longer applies and Ian's choice to put Seth on the cover so many times is now based on his appreciation of Seth, as an artist. Colin wrote an ENTIRE chapter about Seth, of course, in his book 'In Search of Albion' (great book by the way)....so it was only a matter of time before he caught up with the rest of us. Whilst I fully understand how irritating this must all be for you, it would be wonderful if you could just accept it with grace, at long last... Thank oo.. :0) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 13 May 09 - 03:04 AM Having right in front of me a resource which madlizziecornish has not: a complete archive from 1979 of fR, Folk Roots and Southern Rag, I and not she am aware that there are references to her tiny band of "fave" artists (insofar as their outputs correspond to the mag's remit) going back to decades before they got beneath her radar. The recent piece on Show Of Hands was a personal assessment by Colin Irwin of how his rating of Beer & Knightley's work has undergone a recent change. It's certainly not one I would agree with myself; my position remains that the one thing I dislike about SoH is certainly not those two nice chaps themselves but their output as a band. Many agree, while some who came across them the week before last and regard them as some sort of pop idols do not. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Kev Boyd Date: 13 May 09 - 02:49 AM Funny, isn't it, that the original poster Faye claims not to read the magazine, but then proceeds to write a post based entirely on her misconception of its contents. Not surprisingly, those subsequent posters who actually do read the magazine on a regular basis have a rather different view of its contents. Mitch2 - who also doesn't read the magazine but took a "quick glance" at the website - thinks s/he's spotted a theme over the last dew issues. This involves lots of African music and the sense that the editor has a "deep-rooted dislike of English folk clubs". Well, I don't think Mitch2 quite glanced at the website closely enough as a more detailed analysis of the last two issues reveals that out of 22 major articles, only ONE featured an African artist in any detail. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Spleen Cringe Date: 13 May 09 - 02:40 AM Wrong again. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 13 May 09 - 02:34 AM From Will: "Just what does it take to get some respect in the folk community? Cap'n Dick - slagging off a fellow musician and performer's musical abilities on a public forum like this one is, in my old-fashioned view, surely not on." I'll tell you what it takes, Will. It takes an editor who does NOT slag incredibly talented musicians off, in his mag, or on his messageboard, or the BBC board, simply because he doesn't like their music. It's about respect. It's ALWAYS been about respect. Sadly, fRoots has taken much delight in NOT respecting those who they deem not suitable to get in under their 'radar' In my opinion, Ian has lost a great deal of respect over his behaviour and even to this day I think that still stands. To be honest, if you want to live your life knocking talented artists, making fun of them, getting people to write spiteful reviews etc..well, then don't go crying if folk start complaining. The thing is, again, as I see it, is that Ian and the fRoots team don't really give a shite about the opinion of you, or me, or anyone else. They simply 'do what they do'..and that's the way it is. Once you get your head around that, you can decide whether to stand with him, or walk away. I walked. However, it does my heart good to see he's finally realised just how damn talented Show of Hands and Seth are, along with appreciating, at long last, what a huge influence they're having in bringing thousands into the world of folk music and how much they're helping the younger generation of folk musicians to get out there too. In the end, even fRoots can't hold out against a sweeping tide of tens of thousands of people who recognise talent that shines out. So, well done fRoots for at least having the grace to flow with that tide, for once. Let's hope this marks a whole new beginning. Lizzie :0) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: TheSnail Date: 12 May 09 - 08:36 PM Thanks, Folknacious, for your typing efforts and thanks, Vic, for your seven seconds of modern technology. I think it is useful for everybody to know what the fuss is about. He is not, for example, saying that all folkies are hopeless bearded twits. I resemble that remark! Ian's editorial does, indeed, include a lot of sense but it does also include some rather strange remarks. I particularly like - "there's nothing like the ambience of somewhere holding no more than a few hundred". Cosy! "people still get hot under the collar because they see the standard UK folk club model as The Only True Way, and the divine right of floor singers the only possible method for a performer to learn the ropes." causes a certain amount of concern as well. Who says that? Coming from the club that gave Jon Boden, The Askew sisters and Lisa Knapp their first folk club bookings, I'd be interested to find out what the other routes to success are. Could you lend me your copy of the magazine, Vic? |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 12 May 09 - 07:45 PM the Froots editor got very angry with me for daring to send in a post criticising a review ,accused me publicly of hallucinating,and other similiar remarks. Were you not accused of hallucinating because you had claimed a review appeared in Froots when in fact it had been on some obscure web site and not in Froots, and you kept insisting it had even when presented with the evidence? It has already been pointed out above that you were only asked "what are you on?" after a posting full of impenetrable gobbledegook. Since then you have repeatedly made malicious remarks on here that Ian Anderson had accused you of being on drugs! If apologies are needed, surely they are from you? |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Will Fly Date: 12 May 09 - 06:43 PM Another bilious and bloody-minded thread on the forum - whoopee. I can't add much to what Vic and Diana have said here, except to say that I and my friends knocked around with IA, with many of the London and BBC blues & folk scene performers, and with some of IAs Weston-super-Mare buddies from '68 to'75-ish (when I left London for Sussex). And a nicer set of people you couldn't wish to meet - great fun and good performers. We booked Ian in at Clanfolk, for example, and he gave us an excellent night's entertainment. Since those days, he's run other clubs, started Village Thing records, created mags including a national one like fRoots (which I rarely read, so can't really comment on) and been a mover and shaker in the music world. Just what does it take to get some respect in the folk community? Cap'n Dick - slagging off a fellow musician and performer's musical abilities on a public forum like this one is, in my old-fashioned view, surely not on. You keep repeating stories of accusations made, slurs resented and apologies to come forth - but most of us are probably not interested any more. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: The Sandman Date: 12 May 09 - 06:33 PM :Ian, quite understandably, used the phrase "what are you on?". It's a figure of speech:[QUOTE] that is not just what he said.he said much more. he made references to hallucinating,amongst other things In fact,I was not hallucinating,as Greg Stephens,who also saw the review can confirm. Jack,you are completely unaware of what actually happened,it had nothing to do with posting style,but more to do with Froots the IRISH MUSIC REVIEW and a reviewer with an irish pseudonym,who was also a reviewer for Froots,who did a hatchet review on Ann Conroy Burke. the Froots editor got very angry with me for daring to send in a post criticising a review ,accused me publicly of hallucinating,and other similiar remarks. the editor of Froots is well able to explain what happened,but has not even had the decency to apologise. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 12 May 09 - 06:31 PM "I think you'll find if you look in the Froots indexes that Seth Lakeman and Show Of Hands exploits were being written about in the mag long before you were a twinkle in your therapist's eye." Oh poo...go check your facts, mate. I could tell you a whole lotta 'stuff' about your words there, that would make your hair stand on end. However, I really can't be bothered any more, as believe you me, there's absolutely no need. The truth is plain, for all to see, regardless of fRoots & Co. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 12 May 09 - 06:17 PM I've known Ian Anderson for a very, very long time. Not well, it's just that I reviewed some Village Things in about 1970 and have seen him perform at odd times over the years. Indeed, after a particularly long break of not clapping eyes on him, I failed to recognise him in the middle of Sainsburys one morning when he scared me half to death at the checkout. And he hasn't forgiven me for shouting 'I'm behind you' on the darkened steps of the Union Chapel. Nevertheless, we get on with each other and agree reasonably well, except when we don't. None of this, of course, detracts from (or even adds to) the debt which everyone with the mildest interest in trad & roots music owes him. or ought to. I've kept out of this extremely stupid thread so far because someone once mistook me for a fRoots staffer (as if!) and he didn't like that one bit. The fact that he has achieved 30 years of continuous publication without any assistance from me is testimony to his dedication and commitment. Yes, I have a subscription. No, I don't endorse every word written in the mag. Nor does he as Editor, necessarily. However, it's usually well-written and certainly well-produced and there to provoke discussion and encourage further exploration of the musics covered. Tins, and words written thereon, spring to mind. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 12 May 09 - 06:16 PM Vic Smith wrote: seven seconds A Yossou Ndour song! See, its all a conspiracy to foist more African music on us and put down our own noble British traditions blah blah blah wimble wobble wooble (continued on page 75) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 12 May 09 - 06:12 PM I think you'll find if you look in the Froots indexes that Seth Lakeman and Show Of Hands exploits were being written about in the mag long before you were a twinkle in your therapist's eye. Also, I don't think you'll find that Ian Anderson writes all of Froots anyway (a popular misconception that one, if this thread is anything to go by). |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Vic Smith Date: 12 May 09 - 06:10 PM Folknacious wrote "I havent the patience to type it all out" Ah! The joys of having a scanner with text reading software. It means that in seven seconds I managed to produce the following - the editor's piece in full. Now, before it gets torn to pieces - as it inevitably will on Mudcat - try the following:- * Read it carefully and try not to misinterpret the intentions of the writer. He is not, for example, saying that all folkies are hopeless bearded twits. * Consider whether there may be more than a grain of truth in what he is trying to say. It is not anti-folk club; I run a folk club and I don't find it offensive. It is trying to say that there could be other ways, other styles, other venues for presenting the music that we love. * If your only experience of live music is the folk club or singaround, try going to folk gigs in other venues and find how liberating it can be. Now, an editorial by Ian Anderson is bound to stir up some bile on Mudcat so let's have it in green! I come in praise of music in small rooms. I love the wide open spaces and atmosphere of festivals and I've had more than my share of life-changing musical experiences in concert halls and in front of vast stadium stages. But when it comes down to it there's nothing like the ambience of somewhere holding no more than a few hundred, or even just dozens. Whether it's a cafe with a stage or a house concert in somebody's home, musicians jamming in a West African compound or an English pub, a hushed and intimate arts centre theatre or a powerhouse city club, there's a small place for most of the musics I like. They're where you feel at one with the performers, as they do with their audiences. I know this because, for my sins, I've not only been audience but performer and organiser too. They're where musicians in many genres learn their trade and often choose to stay playing because they like it like that. They're more human, less pressured, allow evolution and experimentation. The advances we've seen in stage technology in the past few decades have made them better than ever. The UK's smoking ban has also made a really noticeable difference in widening the range of people enjoying going out to live music in small venues again. One kind of small room music runs on the standard UK folk club model that gelled somewhere in the early 1960s. I spent a large part of my formative years in them, when the music was evolving fast and the performers, audiences and organisers were mostly of the same (studentish) age and on the same voyage of discovery. They tended to be in the same rooms used on other nights by equally buzzing, atmospheric blues or jazz clubs which ran in different ways. I can't remember when I first saw critical pieces appearing suggesting that the standard UK folk club model was getting a bit moth-eaten, predictable, its denizens somewhat long in the tooth and cliquishly offputting, but it must have been as far back as the 1970s! They're still being written today and when they appear, people still get hot under the collar because they see the standard UK folk club model as The Only True Way, and the divine right of floor singers the only possible method for a performer to learn the ropes. The latter is simply wrong. UK folk clubs are good places for learning to be a performer in UK folk clubs, which have their own unique expectations and traditions, sometimes related to and including folk music. It's a community that -with obvious exceptions - sometimes seems to outsiders to be Folkistan run by its own bearded fundamentalists. Other musics, from here and all over the world, clearly have a myriad other equally good ways for new performers to learn their skills or we wouldn't be in such a golden age as we are now. I hope this issue's main feature gives positive evidence that this is the case with English folk music too. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 12 May 09 - 05:53 PM "She keeps good company here though. Any magazine that has Captain Bonkers and Mad Lizzie foaming at the mouth MUST be doing something right!" Actually, the only reason fRoots has me foaming at the mouth these days is due to giggles, giggles that Ian has finally come to realise that I was right all along! ;0) Teehee! Oh dearie...dearie...all that fuss and bother with him on the BBC board and there he was ALL along, a secret Seth and Show of Hands fan after all.... The little divil... Sniggery Smiley.. :0) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Jack Campin Date: 12 May 09 - 05:43 PM As I remember it Dick, your "Ian accused me of being a drug taker" story is because you made a completely impenetrable post to the fRoots board. It had erratic punctuation and sometimes not even spaces between the words, just like your post above in fact. Ian, quite understandably, used the phrase "what are you on?". It's a figure of speech.. That explains a lot. I can well imagine other forums might not be as tolerant of Dick's weird posting style as we are. Dick, there are several ways of distinguishing what you're quoting from what you've written yourself. What I usually do here is to enclose the quoted text in HTML emphasis tags: <em> at the start of the quote and </em> at the end of it. (Always use the preview option to check that this worked right). That's what I did above. Another way is to use the Usenet convention of a special character at the start of each line to indicate qhat's quoted, but that has the drawback of requiring a fixed line length, and you have to insert the line breaks yourself. It looks like this: : this is the : quoted bit Haven't you noticed how much easier it is to make sense of most postings here, in comparison with yours (or Jim Carroll's, he creates the same godawful mess as you)? I've done four previews of this message before finalizing it. It really does help. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 12 May 09 - 05:39 PM It is unfortunate that the editor's comment that Faye referred to is no longer available on line. It was a little... odd. Can anyone reproduce it here so we can see the point of Faye's remarks? I havent the patience to type it all out, but it started: "I come in praise of music in small rooms. I love the wide open spaces and atmosphere of festivals and I've had more than my share of life changing musical experiences in concert halls and in front of vast stadium stages. But when it comes down to it theres nothing like the ambience of somewhere holding no more than a few hundred, or even just dozens. Whether it's a cafe with a stage or a house concert in somebody's home, musicians jamming in a West African compuond or anEnglish pub, a hushed and intimate arts centre theatre or a powerhouse city club, there's a small place for most of the musics I like. Theyre where you feel at one with the performers, as they do with their audiences. I know this because, for my sins, I've not only been audience but performer and organiser too. They are where musicians in many genres learn their trade and often chose to stay playing because they like it like that. They're more human, less pressured, allow evolution and experimentation. The advances weve seen in stage technology in the past few decades have made them better than ever. The UK's smoking ban has also made a really noticeable difference in widening the range of people enjoying going out to live music in small venues again." This was in the May fRoots which had its big main feature by Colin Irwin on new, youngish artists performing English folk music, only two of who have records out so far I believe. So the original complainers posting saying "There are quite a few young performers trying to break into the scene at the moment- how nice it would be if they could be more publicised; it might even draw a new generation of listeners into the scene" was a really ill-informed comment to make. She did say she only glanced at a copy in her newsagents but It would have helped if she'd bothered to look properly at what she was critcising before inserting foot in mouth! She keeps good company here though. Any magazine that has Captain Bonkers and Mad Lizzie foaming at the mouth MUST be doing something right! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: matt milton Date: 12 May 09 - 05:30 PM "I'm surprised to hear that anyone would think that fRoots actively ignores many young performers in this country. The magazine is famous in certain quarters for being overenthusiastic to the point of putting people on the cover before they've recorded an album or done anything of note." yeah, well, that's one of many reasons why I found the original first post on this thread totally baffling. It's why it's absurd to start making snide references to advertising revenues. fRoots has regularly championed people who I presume mr anderson and/or fRoots regular contributors rate very highly, regardless of their album sales. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: The Sandman Date: 12 May 09 - 05:10 PM yes, and check when I last posted.JULY 2008. guest Squiggle, print the post and Ian Andersons reply. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Frozen Gin (inactive) Date: 12 May 09 - 04:37 PM In case anyone didn't notice the reformed Edward II or EK2 are on the cover of the current issue of fRoots. to quote fRoots "THE SECOND COMING Mixing English traditional music with reggae was a bonkers notion that turned Edward II into the festival kings of the 1990s. Colin Irwin hears why they're back for just one year". and a very welcome return too! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Frozen Gin (inactive) Date: 12 May 09 - 04:19 PM How's the Profumo affair got here? Dunno, but if you hum it we'll try to sing along... the chorus goes: You've never 'ad it so good me boys, You've never 'ad it so good You've never 'ad it so good me boys So early in the morning o!!!! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Squiggle Date: 12 May 09 - 04:13 PM As I remember it Dick, your "Ian accused me of being a drug taker" story is because you made a completely impenetrable post to the fRoots board. It had erratic punctuation and sometimes not even spaces between the words, just like your post above in fact. Ian, quite understandably, used the phrase "what are you on?". It's a figure of speech... It's a question which still hasn't been answered. I'm guessing that you have full use of all your fingers seeing as your concertina playing is so accomplished (not a flippant remark by the way...) - do you read back what you've typed before pressing 'submit'? Often it seems as if you don't. I'm surprised to hear that anyone would think that fRoots actively ignores many young performers in this country. The magazine is famous in certain quarters for being overenthusiastic to the point of putting people on the cover before they've recorded an album or done anything of note. |
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