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Obit: Michael Jackson (1958-2009), age 50

Related threads:
BS: Poor Michael Jackson: Opportunists abound (14)
BS: M Jackson. Has there been a murder? (34)
BS: I am boycotting the MJ obit thread (215)
BS: Michael Jackson INNOCENT?!!! (49)
Michael Jackson's Impact On Music Videos (28) (closed)
Michael Jackson & the Beatles catalog (7)
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BS: Michael Jackson INNOCENT (145)
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Bill D 26 Jun 09 - 04:38 PM
Pierre Le Chapeau 26 Jun 09 - 05:08 PM
Bill D 26 Jun 09 - 05:28 PM
Stilly River Sage 26 Jun 09 - 05:57 PM
Bill D 26 Jun 09 - 06:19 PM
goatfell 26 Jun 09 - 06:26 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 26 Jun 09 - 06:35 PM
Jack Blandiver 26 Jun 09 - 06:44 PM
melodeonboy 26 Jun 09 - 07:20 PM
Andy Jackson 26 Jun 09 - 07:28 PM
GUEST,6 months younger than MJ 26 Jun 09 - 07:29 PM
Stilly River Sage 26 Jun 09 - 08:01 PM
Soldier boy 26 Jun 09 - 09:06 PM
Neil D 26 Jun 09 - 10:17 PM
Ron Davies 26 Jun 09 - 10:59 PM
Ron Davies 26 Jun 09 - 11:01 PM
Ron Davies 26 Jun 09 - 11:03 PM
GUEST,Gormless Bob 26 Jun 09 - 11:07 PM
Ron Davies 26 Jun 09 - 11:10 PM
Ron Davies 26 Jun 09 - 11:12 PM
katlaughing 27 Jun 09 - 12:33 AM
GUEST,Pierre Le Chapeau 27 Jun 09 - 01:18 AM
GUEST,6 months younger than MJ 27 Jun 09 - 01:27 AM
goatfell 27 Jun 09 - 03:53 AM
Eye Lander 27 Jun 09 - 04:41 AM
Jack Blandiver 27 Jun 09 - 05:10 AM
GUEST,Ed 27 Jun 09 - 05:44 AM
Mooh 27 Jun 09 - 07:25 AM
number 6 27 Jun 09 - 07:55 AM
Jean(eanjay) 27 Jun 09 - 09:18 AM
Ron Davies 27 Jun 09 - 01:00 PM
Mooh 27 Jun 09 - 01:28 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 27 Jun 09 - 01:31 PM
Peace 27 Jun 09 - 02:15 PM
Rifleman (inactive) 27 Jun 09 - 02:23 PM
Mooh 27 Jun 09 - 03:38 PM
Janie 27 Jun 09 - 04:24 PM
GUEST,Dani 27 Jun 09 - 04:29 PM
Jack Blandiver 27 Jun 09 - 05:34 PM
Stilly River Sage 28 Jun 09 - 11:21 AM
maple_leaf_boy 28 Jun 09 - 04:22 PM
GUEST,Mike B. 28 Jun 09 - 08:19 PM
the lemonade lady 29 Jun 09 - 04:12 AM
the lemonade lady 29 Jun 09 - 04:17 AM
Smedley 29 Jun 09 - 06:11 AM
Noreen 29 Jun 09 - 07:26 AM
the lemonade lady 29 Jun 09 - 11:59 AM
Tootler 29 Jun 09 - 03:22 PM
Wesley S 29 Jun 09 - 03:49 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 29 Jun 09 - 05:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 04:38 PM

Ok...I am now officially tired of NOTHING on major news channels but MJ. What ever happened to Iran & health care?

....and why does this stay above the line when Farrah was relegated down below immediately? He was NOT a musician in the genré that Mudcat is basically concerned with.

He was FAMOUS...he was not some ------- whatever.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 05:08 PM

Er ..."Its a Obit" Michael Jackson thread Bill D." 2

Just because he didnt play Banjo ,or Mandol does not banish him to the discussion threads. He was a supurb performer? Dancer and Musician, Poor Farrah was not. Theres plently of musicians in health care mainly fiddlers.

Iran can go to the open Disscussion forum. (Stay there)


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 05:28 PM

Pierre...I was one of the earliest posters on Mudcat, from back when it was clear that we were not about pop/rock music OR the health of their icons, no matter how famous. I reserve my right to make my opinion known.

I feel the same about famous opera singers or 'rap' artists.

(I never intended Iran to be anywhere else....I will 'stay there' when discussing Iran. I have posted about 'folk' related music here for 13 years. I will continue to do that, also)

I will trouble this thread no further


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 05:57 PM

Bill D, those days are long gone, don't you think?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 06:19 PM

Since you started the thread, I will answer you here...then stop.

Yes, those days are pretty well gone, since Max has decided not to try to limit things. With 2 hours of searching, I could find the couple of posts from years ago where I predicted that this tiny island of folk/blues in a sea of 'other stuff' would gradually be overwhelmed if there were no concerted effort otherwise. I have made suggestions about how to deal with it, but obviously, I saw no sense in ME trying by myself, like King Canute, to "sweep back the waves". I try to find the relevant threads, but it does get harder.

I can even see...sort of... a justification for beginning the thread above the line...but wasn't Farrah's?...and dozens of others which were moved soon after they were started?

Lord help us if anything happens to Ringo Starr.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: goatfell
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 06:26 PM

so sad that he's gone


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 06:35 PM

I first saw him on the Andy Williams show, when Andy introduced the new baby in the band of brothers that were the Jacksons...On came this little lad, his Afro hairstyle framing his cheeky little face just perfectly...and then....out came the voice!   

The rhythm flowed through that child, raised on music from the moment he was born, surrounded by it, but....more than that...born with it, born with it inside him, likewise with the Dance. An ability to make the song and dance pure, because it was as much a part of him as breathing...

Andy's face shone that night...I can still recall his smile, because he knew what was coming.

Well, the little lad never went away, did he?

He lived his life in the way of those words above (posted by 'Guest' who was me, earlier on)

Michael's music became the background to the lives of many generations...His music was loved by people of all ages, it made you move! You couldn't hear one of his songs and not feel it going through your own body!   

Heck, I recall dancing to Billie Jean, letting it all go, at a wedding wayyyyyy back, and loving every single second of the movement in that song, it was its own blood coursing through your veins...

Over the years, he grew paler, his nose grew thinner, his hair grew longer, and you began to realise that this Superstar was so uncomfortable in his own body, probably hated the way he looked. The terrible pain he must have endured, in his efforts to find some 'face' that finally fitted the 'inside' Michael, brought shivers....And all the time, the greedy surgeons lined up to operate on him, to cause the disfigurements that later showed on his face...

And so he hid, behind his masks, under his hat, under his hair, under his make-up, never letting the world see the real Michael, because hell, I doubt even he knew who that was anyway...

The damage an abusive parent does goes so deep.   The damage to a child deprived of a happy childhood goes even deeper.

Was he a child molester? I have absolutely no idea. None of us do, even those who condemn him. It seems hard to understand why a man who loved kids so much would want to hurt them, when he'd known such hurt himself. Sleeping with kids 'innocently' is a weird one, yet...when I think back to when I was 19, and in hospital for a month with an eye problem, I was in the kids ward, and every night I'd gather those little ones on to my bed, read them stories, talk to them, make them laugh, ease their fears, cuddle and hug the ones that needed a hug. Why? Because I love children, absolutely no other reason whatsoever. I've always hugged children, always, it's the most natural thing in the world to me, but hell, that doesn't make me a child molester.

The last time I saw Michael Jackson was in Exeter, a few years back. I'd been listening to Radio 2 that afternoon and Steve Wright had come on, saying that Michael was due to be in Exeter later that day...Yeah, right, Steve! ???????   The 'story' went that he'd flown over at the request of Uri Geller, who'd recently taken over Exeter City Football Club, and Uri had asked Michael to help raise money for the new Football Stadium (now all built and shiny)

Well....you know when you hear something soooooooo crazy that you just think "Hell, let's do this!"....that's what I did...I got the kids and said "Come on, we're off!"....Got to Exeter, followed the crowds to the football stadium, bumped into my neighbour who had some spare tickets. We went in, sat down and waited.....waited for the hoax to start....

Er...Uri Geller was the first on the small stage....Up he sprang, doing his bit...Everyone's looking at one another, and smiling, thinking we're all as daft as each other...and *then* Uri starts to introdue Michael and a hush falls over the crowd....A few moments later, a Chitty Chitty Bang Bang kind of car drives out on to the pitch, going all around the stadium. On the top of the open back seat sits a smallish figure, almost hidden under a black umbrella...

"Cor! It's Mary Poppins!" says the bloke next to me...and we smiled...
The car stops at the stage and out jumps the slight figure, surrounded by burly fellas. He climbs up to where Uri is and starts to talk and yup, it's the Real Michael alright!

So there we sit, in the afternoon Devon sun, listening to Michael Jackson talking about saving the world, being kind to one another, changing the way this ol' world is....Quite *the* most surreal day of my life!   

And now he's moved on, to a place where he'll find peace at long last, where his every move won't be monitored, where he won't have helicoptors flying over his house, photographers at every corner, journalists, publicity agents, greedy bastards taking advantage of a soul that could no longer cope with reality.

I watched Gladys Knight talking about him earlier on, saying how all of those who 'worshipped' Michael had done this to him, she included herself in that, turning him into what he became...But no, for me it started with his nasty father, and went on from there...

I believe that he really was the kind, shy soul that so many of his friends knew and have spoken about...a trusting, innocent person who saw life differently and never really understood this thing called 'life'...

Uri Geller spoke of how he and Michael would argue, when Uri would tell him he was way out of line in some of the things he was doing, laying himself wide open for accusations, but he didn't listen, because he felt it was all innocent, so what was there to worry about?

Watching him going around that tacky store that someone spoke of earlier struck me as incredibly sad, because he was just walking round it saying, "One of those, two of these, one of them" nothing meant anything to him. Nothing does when life itself means so little...

I'm glad he died relatively young, before age tore him apart any further. Before the vultures got their photos of 'Michael Growing Old' and he found more greedy, gruesome surgeons to tear his face and body apart further in his efforts to stay the child he was never allowed to be, the feminine face he so longed for..

No wonder Elizabeth Taylor understood him so well, because she never had her childhood either. Diane Ross cared about him, but he started to look so like her, it must have spooked her...He seemed always desperate to be anyone but himself, that cheeky little lad, with his cute nose, lovely hair and smiley face.

He was a superb performer, an unbelievable dancer, a brilliant songwriter and singer and to be honest, imo, there'll never be another that can touch him.

The world demanded a Superstar, and became that, at the cost to his happiness, his sanity, his life.

So, Michael, for all those years when you made the world happy whilst you lived your years bewildered and locked away, trusting Bubbles more than you trusted most humans, thank you...Thank you for the truly incredible music and dance that you let behind. And hey, there aren't many lads in short trousers, who wear sparkly socks and grab their crotch that could make me watch 'em....but you had me hooked!

Beat It

The Man In The Mirror Documentary - Part 1 - Youtube (all other parts are also there)



At last, he can now finally *be* Michael....


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 06:44 PM

Nice one, Lizzie.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: melodeonboy
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 07:20 PM

"Bad day for Hollywood."

Agreed.

"His influence on music across every spectrum of music is massive."

Oh, yeh. I often add a squeaky voice and a disco beat when I do "All for my grog"!

"Bloody hell. Anyone'd think he was a priest."

Quite.

And has been at least intimated on this thread, Mudcat is going to be very crowded if we now spend so much time and space on pop artists. Ain't there other websites for this sort of thing?!

Even on this morning's Today programme on Radio 4 (which I regard as a serious, mainly political programme) I had to put up with someone spouting, in no uncertain terms, that Michael Jackson was "up there with Mozart and Beethoven".

Spare me!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 07:28 PM

Thanks Lizzie, that was a wonderful tribute and some warming little stories. Yes the man was but a boy, and therein lay the problem that most of the world couldn't grasp.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: GUEST,6 months younger than MJ
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 07:29 PM

brilliant multi-talented showbiz performer.. yes !! absolutely !!!!

musical artist soul /R'n'B /rock crossover genius ?????

sod the hysterical worldwide mass sycophants,
he was never any way near as gifted as Prince !!!!

As superb as MJ was at his mainstream entertainment profession..

please lests keep his limited creative musical artistry in perspective.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 08:01 PM

I don't start threads for most pop artists, but I did for this one. The order of magnitude of importance in the music industry is off the scale, compared to most of the rest. I also started the Farrah thread, and expected it to be moved below, unless someone found some musical association that I wasn't aware of. What I DON'T do is ever start an obit thread with "BS."

For a long time I think a lot of people here have acknowledged that the core of their musical interest is folk or blues, but many of us have eclectic tastes and stray into lots of other music venues. If you try to exclude the conversation about the others, you'll have a dried up little site with martinets as moderators, kicking out all of the non-germane stuff. That would be a sorry site.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Soldier boy
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 09:06 PM

Lizzie Cornish 1, Wow what a eulogy for Michael!!

Yours has been the best contribution so far on this thread because of your utmost sincerity, honesty and pure emotion, so well expressed and written.

I do not know if you know it but you are one powerful wordsmith.
Your use of words is so evocative,sublime, and they stir the emotions and the soul.

You certainly stirred mine and you have moved me (and that takes a lot of doing).

If you are not already into 'creative writing' then please do consider this and act upon it for you have the writers instinct to write a best selling novel. I josh not, I can recognise talent and believe in you. Just do it! Trust me - and start now!

Chris


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Neil D
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 10:17 PM

Meanwhile, on the subject of death: has anyone heard whether Neda's family have been allowed to see her body?


George, I don't know if the parents ever saw the body, but I saw a report today that several people had placed flowers and mementos on her grave in defiance of government orders not to mourn her.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 10:59 PM

"Genius".    Using that for either Elvis or Michael Jackson is proof positive of absurd language inflation. Which of course, as usual with inflation, has led to language debasement.

I can't think of one pop musical "genius"--somebody to rank with Mozart, Brahms, Beethoven, Bach etc.--unless you call Gershwin "pop"--since he straddled both and did them supremely well.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 11:01 PM

Though George's pop without Ira's lyrics is unthinkable.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 11:03 PM

But Joe, who the hell is--or was--Jake Goody, and how did he cause you such misery?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: GUEST,Gormless Bob
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 11:07 PM

what, you never heard of Jake Goody & Da Big Brothers !!???

man wherez you bin, you not listen to the wireless this last 100 years..


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 11:10 PM

No, I stopped listening 101 years ago.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 11:12 PM

But the main question is: why did he treat our Joe so lousy?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 12:33 AM

He was a consummate dancer and I enjoyed watching him, esp. in Black or White. Good message even if he was a bit confused about it himself. And, I like the trad dancing.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: GUEST,Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 01:18 AM

Bill D.
may you long continue to Thread on Mudcat. Your opinions are very much valued Im sure. I was not being rude.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: GUEST,6 months younger than MJ
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 01:27 AM

serious..

anyone aware of a 'folk' tinted track on any of Jackos releases ???
..even just a traditional 'folk' instrument prominent in the mix ????


"Gospel" ?, I'm not qualified to comment..
but if gospel is considered here as 'Folk' ?

even any evidence of that..???


Ok, clutching straws, but just something, anything
to appease the hardline
separitist unforgiving folkzis....


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: goatfell
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 03:53 AM

who is jake goody and his band because I haven't heard of them either


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Eye Lander
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 04:41 AM

Yay Lizzie! I don't have the skills to write like you, but thank you, you have said everything that I feel.



Jillie


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 05:10 AM

In echo of what SRS said back there, it's obvious Mudcat isn't so much about Folk as it is about Folkies, and few Folkies in my experience would be so limited in their musical appreciations not to have been touched by music other than Folk, let alone by the singular genius (and I don't use the word lightly) that was Michael Jackson.

One might move onto the Folkloric / Fortean significance of his manifest eccentricity (this was the man who attempted the buy the skeleton of Joseph Carey Merrick after all) but that must be a discussion for another place and another time. Right now it's enough that this obituary has its place above the line on Mudcat and that Folkies are listening to music other than Folk.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 05:44 AM

Wot Suibhne O'Piobaireachd said.

I was born in 1967 and was 14 when Thriller came out. It inevitably formed an aural backdrop to those impressionable years. That I then moved to The Byrds, and REM, then Caravan and Pink Floyd, then Fairport and Steeleye to eventually land on Walter Pardon (not literally) is OK isn't it?

Or should I shun everything 'non folkie' and go along with Virginia Tam's ridiculous [Jackson's songs] all sounded the same with exception of Ben


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Mooh
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 07:25 AM

He was absolutely no influence on me (or mine) other than to repulse me. I heartily disliked his music from the start, and his persona reeked of self-servitude and self-absorption. There is doubt as to how much of his music was of his own composition, arrangement, or production (there were plenty of contributors on the recordings), and his actual influence beyond the pop entertainment world is negligible. For example, in ten years of music instruction I have never once been asked for his music, or had him listed as a like or influence by students. As self-titled king of pop he was a pretender who was dethroned years ago.

That said, I understand that others admire him, and his demise will saturate the airwaves for a while. Another reason to avoid the "news" programs...

...but, I've been reading and watching way too much about MJ (it's a weird cultural phenomenon), but what strikes me are 2 things: the over-the-top hyperbole describing his accomplishments, and the apologists for his actions, especially on all the news channels.

From what I can discern, the man was a head case who never got his personal life together, blaming others for things, excusing his behavior, victimizing employees and others in positions of trust, being irresponsible with his considerable fortune, self-aggrandizing like a dictator, manipulating personal and sexual relationships. He was no role model, yet he seemed to show no outward shame.

We are what we make of ourselves, and if he was such a tortured soul, he only had himself to blame.

An aside: A society which allows itself to descend into the kind of celebrity fixated hero-worship that we see here is truly misguided and deluded.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: number 6
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 07:55 AM

"An aside: A society which allows itself to descend into the kind of celebrity fixated hero-worship that we see here is truly misguided and deluded."

so true Mooh, so true.

what's happening over in Iran in the last 2 days?

biLL


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 09:18 AM

Lizzie, I love what you wrote. I've just watched your Beat It link - absolutely brilliant.

Michael Jackson was truly amazing.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 01:00 PM

Jake Goody was a consummate dancer and a genius?   Is that all?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Mooh
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 01:28 PM

biLL - "What's happening over in Iran in the last 2 days?"

Right on.

Didn't they stop to mourn MJ like the rest of the world? I keep hearing what an international star he was, how everyone in the world adored him, blah blah blah. I could just puke. I pity him and those who invested themselves in him, but the world is a much bigger place than this.

Someone asked me how it was that I wasn't influenced by MJ, being involved in the music industry and all. Well, because I listen to non-pop, un-pop, and don't subscribe to the pop lifestyle. MJ just wasn't in my radar nor did I want him to be.

It is a shame that his life had to malfunction as it did, and it was an untimely death, but not unforeseeable. Why is anybody surprised?

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 01:31 PM

"...let alone by the singular genius (and I don't use the word lightly) that was Michael Jackson."

Michael jackson was NOT a genius - calling him one devalues the word!
Newton was a genius as were Galileo, Michaelangelo, Leonardo, Einstein, Darwin, Mozart, Beethoven and Alan Turing.

Newton told us that "he stood on the shoulders of giants". Michael Jackson stood on a 4 billion ton mountain of hype and bullshit!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Peace
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 02:15 PM

Say what you really mean, Shimrod.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 02:23 PM

Has the word OVERATED surfaced yet? and that's putting it mildly.

One is hard put to realise that Tamala Motown produced both Michael Jackson and a REAL musical great, Smokey Robinson.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Mooh
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 03:38 PM

Shimrod is quite correct. I've been reading "Music, The Brain, And Ecstasy" by Robert Jourdain. In it he describes, among other things, the genius of some of the greatest musicians. Sorry folks, MJ barely qualifies as bush league.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Janie
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 04:24 PM

I've never been a fan of Pop music. I actively and intensely dislike listening to Opera. Because I don't like a genre doesn't mean that genre doesn't have it's great performers.

I do love dance and I love theater. I know a lot more about dance than I do about theater or pop music

I never followed MJ's career, but on those occasions where by hapstance I saw a televised performance or music video, I knew I was watching great performances. Although I had seen him perform Thriller on stage on telvesion a number of years ago, and recall how exciting it was, I saw the Thriller video for the first time just a couple of months ago when my son downloaded it from iTunes.   I thought it was awesome. (I'm not real fond of music videos, by the way.)

These threads have piqued my interest, and like probably 3,000,000 other people who are avoiding doing chores on a Saturday, I've been watching MJ videos on YouTube this afternoon, and am working my way through the "Man in the Mirror" segments for which Lizzie provided a link.

I don't know if he was a musical genious or not. It is clear that folks like Quincy Jones and Motown's Goody considered him one. It is also clear that other "greats" from Motown and Pop music considered him to be remarkable gifted. I am coming away with the impression that he is, at least, a performing genius. Watch him dance. Notice how he embodies the music, notice the grace and the impression of weightlessness. Had he chosen to pursue a career in ballet or modern dance, there is little doubt he would have been a star.

I never saw him live. I suspect, though, he had the powerful, charismatic stage presence of Mick Jagger in his prime. (Most charismatic live performer I ever saw, reaching me all the way back in the bleachers on the 50 yard line of the Gator Bowl in Jacksonville. Jagger's power never came across in the television and video performances I occasionally saw. MJ's power does.

Based on what one could read in the news over the years, MJ appears to have become personally weird, to say the least, but I don't think anyone outside of his immediate circle really knows, or really knows if he became "weirder" than a lot of other icons who lived out their short lives under the relentless lense of fame and publicity.

Pablo Picasso, if you have read any of his biographies, was a sick, unpleasant, missogynistic man. He was also a great artist. I would hope that, whether or not one likes pop music, highly produced music, dance, or has a negative opinion of Michael Jackson the person based on the publicity around him over the years, that one can still respect and appreciate his artistry.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 04:29 PM

Nice, Lizzie. Thanks.

Dani


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 05:34 PM

Great TOTP2 tribute on BBC2 right now - check it out!


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 11:21 AM

That is your opinion, GregB, but it was never proved in court. And the family that brought the complaint never moved on to a civil suit for obvious reasons--they'd already tried to get the legal system to flog their victim to get a settlement so they'd drop charges based upon no evidence. They'd have had to produce real evidence in the civil trial. The legal system is great at operating on hear-say.

It is possible to feel very sorry for this guy who had no view of the real world from his strange and sheltered environment. No sense of money, no sense, apparently of the guile that people would use to approach him and prey on his sympathies. I think that family knew enough from insiders to be able to insert themselves into his inner circle, then they tried to cash in. They should have been tried, but I've heard no news of it if it happened.

SRS


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 04:22 PM

I heard that he died of food poisoning.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: GUEST,Mike B.
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 08:19 PM

I don't recall Elvis' death thirty years ago getting nearly the same intensity of media coverage as Jackson's.

Of course there were no 24 hour cable news and entertainment channels back then, but I once heard that the story didn't even lead the evening newscasts on CBS and NBC (only ABC deeming it significant enough).


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 04:12 AM

I cannot believe how gillible the whole world is... MJ is not dead. He never needs to perform again, he's had practice having not performed for 10 years. He's been flown out and operated on so that he is unrecognisable. He was millions of dollars in debt, now he's 'dead' this will be paid off by all of you buying for his albums, visiting Never Land, and donating to 'the cause'. No bailing out by his family now!all of this crap about his Dr being under suspicion is just a smoke screen, a decoy. Wouldn't you lie for a good pay off? Take the wrap even?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 04:17 AM

"The nature of Jackson's foibles weren't extraordinary, though their magnitude and their reverberations might be. His finances were a shambles, but so were Ed McMahon's; Jackson's debt, however, was measured in the hundreds of millions of dollars and his assets included publishing rights to hundreds of Beatles songs and the famous, or infamous, Neverland Ranch outside Santa Barbara. Attempts to untangle his personal finances involved Citigroup, Bank of America and Goldman Sachs, Wall Street institutions more accustomed to resuscitating patients such as AIG and General Motors. The luminaries who flocked to his side to lend their assistance in his many hours of need while basking in his reflected glow included Ron Burkle, the Rev. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Johnnie Cochran. Who was exploiting whom in these relationships? It's impossible to say."


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Smedley
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 06:11 AM

It's only to be expected that lots of Mudcat people find the hype industry surrounding Jackson to be appalling and loathsome. But under the mountains of industrialised manipulation was one of the finest singers I have ever heard.

It's not one of his best-known tracks, but if you hunt out his cover version of Bill Withers' 'Ain't No Sunshine' you will hear singing of the most extraordinarily gifted and moving soulfulness. 'I Want You Back', 'Don't Stop Til You Get Enough' and 'Billie Jean' are just as phenomenal. Most of his later output was dire - and 'Thriller' is a very silly little song (and it should have been called 'Horror' given the films it references!!) but this doesn't erase how great he was at his best.

Only my opinion, of course.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Noreen
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 07:26 AM

Lovely tribute, Lizzie.

I still think of him as the little boy he was when singing with the Jackson 5- that lovely, fresh-faced, happy child.

So sad at all that happened to him since.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 11:59 AM

and black, I think?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Tootler
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 03:22 PM

Mooh said it all. Michael Jackson was vastly overrated and was a product of the commercial pop world of hype.

Yes he was a good singer, but no better than many others.

Yes it is a pity he had to die relatively young, but I was not a bit surprised when it happened. There were persistent news reports that his health was not good and doubts were being expressed that he would be fit enough for the London Concerts - always denied by his publicity machine of course. Well those rumours proved true - in the ultimate way.

I keep seeing the word genius bandied about. This is becoming a much overworked word and belittles the achievements of real geniuses. Michael Jackson was not among them.

Only time will tell whether any of his achievements will prove lasting.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Wesley S
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 03:49 PM

Not to offend anyone here but I wouldn't expect to find accurate or unbiased evaluations of Michael Jacksons talents on a folk music website. And I wouldn't go to Micheal Jacksons fan site to find an accurate evaluation of Pete Seegars talents either.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Michael Jackson -age 50- Jun 2009
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 05:47 PM

Taken from here.....

From Lisa Marie Presley's Myspace Blog:


>>>"Friday, June 26, 2009

He Knew.

Years ago Michael and I were having a deep conversation about life in general.

I can't recall the exact subject matter but he may have been questioning me about the circumstances of my Fathers Death.

At some point he paused, he stared at me very intensely and he stated with an almost calm certainty, "I am afraid that I am going to end up like him, the way he did."

I promptly tried to deter him from the idea, at which point he just shrugged his shoulders and nodded almost matter of fact as if to let me know, he knew what he knew and that was kind of that.

14 years later   I am sitting here watching on the news an ambulance leaves the driveway of his home, the big gates, the crowds outside the gates, the coverage, the crowds outside the hospital, the Cause of death and what may have led up to it and the memory of this conversation hit me, as did the unstoppable tears.

A predicted ending by him, by loved ones and by me, but what I didn't predict was how much it was going to hurt when it finally happened.

The person I failed to help is being transferred right now to the LA County Coroners office for his Autopsy.

All of my indifference and detachment that I worked so hard to achieve over the years has just gone into the bowels of hell and right now I am gutted.

I am going to say now what I have never said before because I want the truth out there for once.

Our relationship was not "a sham" as is being reported in the press. It was an unusual relationship yes, where two unusual people who did not live or know a "Normal life" found a connection, perhaps with some suspect timing on his part. Nonetheless, I do believe he loved me as much as he could love anyone and I loved him very much.

I wanted to "save him" I wanted to save him from the inevitable which is what has just happened.

His family and his loved ones also wanted to save him from this as well but didn't know how and this was 14 years ago. We all worried that this would be the outcome then.

At that time, In trying to save him, I almost lost myself.

He was an incredibly dynamic force and power that was not to be underestimated.

When he used it for something good, It was the best and when he used it for something bad, It was really, REALLY bad.

Mediocrity was not a concept that would even for a second enter Michael Jackson's being or actions.

I became very ill and emotionally/ spiritually exhausted in my quest to save him from certain self-destructive behavior and from the awful vampires and leeches he would always manage to magnetize around him.

I was in over my head while trying.

I had my children to care for, I had to make a decision.

The hardest decision I have ever had to make, which was to walk away and let his fate have him, even though I desperately loved him and tried to stop or reverse it somehow.

After the Divorce, I spent a few years obsessing about him and what I could have done different, in regret.

Then I spent some angry years at the whole situation.

At some point, I truly became Indifferent, until now.

As I sit here overwhelmed with sadness, reflection and confusion at what was my biggest failure to date, watching on the news almost play by play The exact Scenario I saw happen on August 16th, 1977 happening again right now with Michael (A sight I never wanted to see again) just as he predicted, I am truly, truly gutted.

Any ill experience or words I have felt towards him in the past has just died inside of me along with him.

He was an amazing person and I am lucky to have gotten as close to him as I did and to have had the many experiences and years that we had together.

I desperately hope that he can be relieved from his pain, pressure and turmoil now.

He deserves to be free from all of that and I hope he is in a better place or will be.

I also hope that anyone else who feels they have failed to help him can be set free because he hopefully finally is.

   The World is in shock but somehow he knew exactly how his fate would be played out some day more than anyone else knew, and he was right.


I really needed to say this right now, thanks for listening.

~LMP"

5:15 PM3029 Comments3317 Kudos (Give Kudos) <<<<


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