Can girls 'glug'?

Subject: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Melissa
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 03:55 PM

It's fairly obvious that women and men have some body parts that aren't the same. Maybe it's a dumb question, but is there a difference in our throats?

I've been told that the sound heard in Spike Jones recordings (possibly done by Doodles Weaver?) that sounds like a fast series of 'guhguhguh' is called Glugging.
Women can yodel and eef/eeph and there's a chance that the reason I've never heard a woman glug is because it's far from ladylike, but I try and just don't have much luck.

Are we physically able?

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 04:13 PM

I always thought 'glugging' was swallowing a large volume of liquid quickly. Women can certainly do that - the star of our college drinking team was a young girl from a convent school who discovered she could sink 2 pints of beer quicker than any of the men.

She didn't make much of a noise doing it - maybe that was the convent training?

Phil

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Weasel
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 04:35 PM

"Convent school" doesn't really mean that the pupils have any connection with the convent, HOWEVER - One of the best night's out I ever had was with a girl from a convent school for whom the event was a last fling before joining the convent as a novice.

Within an hour she had demonstrated her ability to drink more than the rest of us put together, then, just to make sure we'd noticed, she did it again.

My lasting memory of her is of her declarations of love for me as I held her over a basin before I too passed out from the experience. (sorry if that's too much information.) I don't recall whether or not she made noises as she glugged the pints.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 04:53 PM

There is a metal band called Arch-Enemy with a female singer who can growl all night at a level that would rip my throat to pieces in minutes. But that may not be the same as glugging.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:05 PM

I can 'approximate' the glugging in Spike Jones'
"Hawaiian War Chant"....I never met a woman who thought it was worth trying....

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 05:22 PM

We meet at alto, you know?

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:06 PM

No nearer an answer thenm! Glugging and drinking quickly are totally different. Really quick drinkers ( I was a bet handler for one)just open their throat, and pour it down. Gluggers, move the throat around the adam's apple up and down. Women have a smaller, less developed Adam's Apple. This much I know. Whether women can actually glug is an empirical question, that only you girls can answer.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Jul 09 - 06:11 PM

I glug... never been able to just open the throat and pour it in.

LTS

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Gurney
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 12:56 AM

Never heard anyone 'glugging,' but way back, miners drank by poaring from the bottle into their mouth, and swallowing with the mouth open. If anyone thinks that sounds easy, just try it. A learned skill.

The standard miner's tin bottle had a neck that was stopped with a cork, hence reluctance to touch it with your lips.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 01:42 AM

Thanks..I didn't need help with the drinking kind. I've got that one under control.

Tug the Cox: Does the adams apple DO anything when it's flopping up and down..or is it a byproduct?

Bill D: If you knew a woman who wanted to try, how would you describe the way to do it?

It's not a very solemn topic, but it is a serious question.
I honestly want to know--so I can either figure out what I'm doing wrong or accept that it's wasted effort and give up.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:13 AM

Not sure about glugging, Melissa, but I've seen footage of Joan Sutherland, and it's amazing what she could do with her voice.

Also, on my walkabouts, I noticed several cultures (especially in Asia) still drink without touching the sides, as Gurney describes - whatever the liquid is contained in.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 02:08 PM

(sending this up once before I let it slide out of sight)

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 02:41 PM

Hang on - Spike Jones and the City Slickers - Clang clang who gives a dang what's the difference when you're on a spree tum tum ti tum ti tum yell out stomach here it comes and have another drink on me.

There is a rather glottal sound on that which sounds like a bottle emptying - and yes women can make it. It is not done with the larynx but the back of the tongue and the soft pallette. Basically press together and pull apart with the mouth held open.

It might not be universal, I can also do tongue clicks and pronounce the Welsh ll correctly. Though the realisation that someone with a Yorkshire accent is trying to speak Welsh brings tears to the eyes of native speakers.   

Anne Croucher

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 02:44 PM

"Bill D: If you knew a woman who wanted to try, how would you describe the way to do it?"

well.... you sorta 'close your throat' by trying to force the back of your tongue against the roof of your mouth...or at least 'high',,,then it feels like suddenly 'popping' that muscle down. It is also a bit like gargling without liquid....the main area of the tongue barely moves. It is also a bit like...ummm... having something like a bite of bread that's too large that gets stuck back there and trying to force it back out just before swallowing it.

gee...that's not easy to explain.
(I can also shake my eyes back & forth sideways...and that is even harder to describe.)

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 02:54 PM

I forgot about the bottle-pouring sound! That one is roughly the same (mechanically) as the "I can't get my car to start" 'gickaguy' sound..I think?

I think glugging is deeper in the throat..possibly in the same general area as the purr/growl sound you can make with an exhale. Glugging (IS that the right name for what I'm talking about?) doesn't sound wet.

Can you make a rapid hard-G sound deeper in your throat, AnneC?
..or even a slow series?

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 03:02 PM

BillD: So, it's related to the fake loud-swallow noise? Sort of a cousin to the (apologies beforehand..definitely unladylike!) puking dog noise?   
Is it sort of like the loud-swallow noise..with an open mouth?
Is it sort of a combined loud-swallow and cough (to push the glug back out) or is the whole sound made by the swallow part?

I can make one in a row (I think) Is each syllable in a glug the same downward movement..or does up and down each make a syllable?

(good news..I don't want to jiggle my eyeballs or wiggle my ears..yet. It will be quite a while before I come back asking for description/instruction on that one!)

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 03:19 PM

Maybe it's an Adam's Apple thing.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 03:23 PM

it might be, fB.
I kind of hope not..

Nobody has said they've heard a woman do it and it's going to seem like quite a cheat if it isn't structurally possible!

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: SharonA
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 03:33 PM

The sound heard on the Spike Jones recordings has nothing to do with the Adam's apple, male or female.

Bill D sorta-kinda has the right idea in his explanation. Actually, you do indeed "close" the back of your mouth, at the uvula/tonsil area, by raising the back of your tongue against that soft tissue (not against the "roof" of the mouth". At the same time you close the passageway from sinus to throat with your muscle, which created suction behind the tongue. Then you use that suction to 'pop' the back of the TONGUE down, while at the same time vocalizing so that you make a "geauuh" sound.

It's not a "glug". There's no "L" and no second "G" in the sound. The tongue-against-palate popping approximates a hard-"G" sound, and from there it's an "eah" sound (rhymes with "yeah" or with a Bostonian's pronunciation of "chair", "dare", etc.)

I have been making the sound as I have typed this, and I am a woman, so the creation of the sound is definitely gender-nonspecific.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 03:35 PM

You mean the almost retchingly far back in the throat G which is just the very edge of the soft pallette touching the very very back of the tongue?

Combined with a bit of nose noise it can make a sound like 'gung' with similarities to the striking of a long case clock. Very handy for story telling sound effects in Cinderella.

Anne Croucher

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 03:44 PM

Excellent!

I should push the G into my throat..and the vowel sound comes when I pop it back out?
So..if someone could see a tongue during the process, it would be sort of undulating with the action being at the back..and with every G, the tongue would contract--then flatten a little for the vowel?

Open mouth all the time, right?

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:00 PM

I think it's a little bit different from 'gung' it seems to sound like it's a little bit deeper in the throat.

The glugging sound I'm talking about is one that can be done rapidly. As fast as saying 'giggedy giggedy giggedy' in one second.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:38 PM

If I've got the right noise, I do it breathing out, not in. Not that I do do it, except as an experiment for the purposes of this thread.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 04:43 PM

Can you do that experimental noise ten times in a row without passing out, RB?

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: GUEST,SharonA, logged out and about to shut down
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 05:07 PM

Melissa: Yes, push the "G" back from the normal position (where the tongue connects with the back of the roof of the mouth) toward the throat (where the tongue connects with the tonsil area).

Yes, open mouth throughout the process. Someone watching your tongue would see what you describe.

The rapid ten-times-a-second sound may in fact be gargling rather than "geauuh"-ing. (...or it could be that the "geauuh" sound was recorded and speeded up for a Spike Jones studio piece.) On which Spike Jones song does the ten-times-a-second thing occur?


Richard: Yes, you should be breathing out because you are vocalizing as you are "popping" the tongue away from the palate.


Bye for now -- gotta go lead a folk song society meeting!

Sharon

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 05:14 PM

Oh, I breathe through my ears when necessary, Melissa.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 05:22 PM

Back to ears, are we? I can wiggle my left ear - I've been trying for 30 years to wiggle my right, but no luck so far.

Phil

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 05:22 PM

I'll listen to some Spike Jones tonight and find my favorite example, Sharon. Thanks.

Wow, RB..I bet that's either stunning or intimidating to watch!

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 05:25 PM

It's humbling to keep company with so many talented people.

Did you try standing on your head while attempting the right ear wiggle, Phil?

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 05:29 PM

"Is it sort of a combined loud-swallow and cough (to push the glug back out)"

yep...that's close...and Sharon says it well, too...the sound is more like g!g^h, where ! represents the 'pop' and the h is barely there.

(I can sort of wriggle my ears also, but too much of my entire scalp moves...☺)

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 05:29 PM

I can't get my feet anywhere up near my head - it's age, sorry!

Phil

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Alice
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 05:50 PM

I think Fanny Brice added some glugging sounds to songs at times, but I can't find any examples on you tube.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: tkhering
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 06:49 PM

The best 'glugs' on Spike Jones records (Hawaiian War Chant, Sheik of Araby, etc.) came from Carl Grayson, although Mickey Katz's higher-pitch but faster glugs were also impressive.

The full vocal effect comes from, not only the throat effect, but flipping the upper lip with the tongue.

As to the original question, can girls do this? Check the 1930s records by the Boswell Sisters. Glugs in harmony!

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 07:03 PM

flipping the lip gives it another syllable and makes it sound twice as fast?

Carl Grayson..thanks for that correction! I didn't know which one it was.

It looks like there are quite a few recordings of the Boswell Sisters here:
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=Boswell%20Sisters

Fanny Brice:
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=Fanny%20Brice

(Phil..maybe you could stand on BillD's head instead--the two of you would combine to make a fine earwiggling duo?)

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Amos
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 07:29 PM

In my experience, girls can not only glug, they can also, if pressed, tweet, glurg, burgh, blagh, clap and siffle.

But usually they do not resort to these extremes because they all have the powerful ability to wink, which gets them where they need to go. Also, they are much better than boys at nodding, hithering and crinkling.


A

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Melissa
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 07:40 PM

I find the standard wiles a bit restrictive, Amos. Sure, they're all handy in the proper situations..but there's the question of appropriate usage and misconstruence.
That's where glugging comes in.
It's perfect in any situation.

I like to think of it as the vocal twin of brown shoes (which go with everything) Plus, it's surely a skill that would enhance any resume.
Who wouldn't hire a gal who might be willing to boldly glug where others dare not?

When a siffle just won't do, a glug can brighten the day (and distract innocent bystanders)

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 09:10 PM

These girls can!

Glugging is, as I suspected, associated with beer. I'd bet the name came from the ummmm... 'distinctive'... sound of drinking beer rapidly.

The activity is 'chugging', the sound itself is a glug.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Amos
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 09:16 PM

LOL!! The vocal equivalent of brown shoes is very funny image indeed, Melissa!


A

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 03:05 PM

Spike Jones -- Hawaiian War Chant -- recording only
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQOXrMA4K0E
(Glugging from 1:13 to 1:35)

Spike Jones -- Cocktails for Two -- live performance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyE9ORHxX_g&NR=1
(Glugging from 1>30 to 1:52)

In the "Cocktails" live-performance film, it is obvious that the multi-glug sound is NOT the result of flipping the upper lip with the tongue. The guy doing the glugging (wearing the derby, on the right side of the screen, to stage left of Spike Jones) appears to be moving his tongue inside his mouth -- flipping the tip of it against the roof of his mouth, perhaps? -- but he is not extending his tongue past his teeth to his lip.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: john f weldon
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 03:15 PM

Some excellent glugging can be heard on a 78 called "The Singing Frog", which is glugged by Bozo the Clown (several actors provided the voice over the years).

My daughter insisted on my singing this endlessly on long car trips, and I can glug, but excessive glugging really hurts the throat.

If you have a gender excuse for declining to glug, use it!

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 03:20 PM

This reminds me of CLick and Clack on Car Talk on NPR and the folks who call in and try to make the sounds of their cars' maladies!**bg**

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 03:37 PM

Well I just tried it and I can do it, though not very much volume to it and it hurt so I won't be doing that again.

I used to love click and clack. I miss prairie home companion too.

Do they have downloads?

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 03:38 PM

A different film of "Cocktails for Two" (staged)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvt4b_qwC_Q&feature=related
(Glugging from 1:36 to 1:59)

Even though this clip is mostly staged (i.e. not a film of the band in performance), the same man is shown glugging. This is Carl Grayson, as tkhering told us earlier here.

Here is a biography of Grayson which includes references to his glugging: http://www.answers.com/topic/carl-grayson

More about Grayson appears in these descriptions of Spike Jones short films: http://www.weirdwildrealm.com/f-spike-jones.html

One film described is "Sheik of Araby" (which, in the film's title, is misspelled "Shiek") -- here is the film on YouTube -- unfortunately Grayson's glugging segment at the end of the song is cut short: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLnar5FONxY

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Amos
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 03:43 PM

VT:

I believe all NPR's shows are on podcasts as well at www.npr.org


A

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 03:54 PM

Hmmm... in the "Shiek of Araby" film, it looks like Spike Jones was acting out the glugging segment, though the references I posted say that Grayson made the sound on the recording.

VirginiaTam, you can subscribe to receive podcasts of Car Talk (Click & Clack) or hear clips of segments of the shows -- see this page: http://www.cartalk.com/content/showpodcast/index.html

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 04:09 PM

Spike Jones -- The Jones Polka (recording only, no visuals)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG3giW0Cj9Y&NR=12:12 to 2:30 -- Glugging combined with a rolling "rrrrrrr"

Wow. I stand in awe of such prowess. This recording features Mickey Katz on glugs, according to this bio: http://www.answers.com/topic/mickey-katz

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 04:11 PM

Oops -- somehow my hard return after the YouTube URL disappeared from my last post. It should read:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG3giW0Cj9Y&NR=1

2:12 to 2:30 -- Glugging combined with a rolling "rrrrrr"

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: john f weldon
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 07:02 PM

There once was a frog
A cute little frog
Who'd sit in a stream and soak
Unlike other frogs
or chickens or dogs
This frog would sing as he croaked...
He went

Guggringing Guggringing Guggringinging
Gung ging ging ging ging guggeringinging
Guggringing Guggringing Guggringinging
Gung ging ging ging ging guggeringinging

and there are 3 more verses
...

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Melissa
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 07:21 PM

In 'Sheik of Araby' the glugs at the end are slower..seems like that ought to make them easier to hear and imitate and I'm looking forward to listening several times when I get a little bit of time to do it.

I listened to about half of a box set last night and was surprised at how infrequently glugging (has anyone found a better name for it, or is that really what it's called?) is used. Sheik and Cocktails are the only ones I've run across so far.

This thread is turning out to be a hoot!
THanks everyone..

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: Hollowfox
Date: 13 Jul 09 - 07:29 PM

I didn't know there was such a big deal about women making this noise. If it's the one I'm thinking of, I've been able to do it for years (insert mother's voise,"Stop that!"). To be really sure, we'd all have to get together in one place and compare both sounds and techniques.

Subject: RE: Can girls 'glug'?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 09 - 06:20 AM

Having just listened to English Tapestry singing 'Dot'n carry one' I can confirm that Ruth Brittain certainly could glug. She claims now that her voice has gone, but I'm not convinced.