BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 08:54 AM

Of course another irony is that both men have the reputation for trying to bridge racial gaps.

Maybe Jeri, or whoever it was, has it right to just diagnose testosterone poisoning--in both of the main figures in this drama.

201

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 11:27 AM

Two strong-will guys with different takes on the issue. In the words of Forrest Gump, "S--" well, you KNOW what happens. Maybe Gates was tired and pissed off with the airline. Maybe the cop just came off a domestic and was in no mood.

But unfortunately America has the example of LA and four cops kicking the crap out of a Black man. And enjoying it. How Obama got into it is beyond me. But then I dream lots and avoid the news as much as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 03:37 PM

The 911 transcript of the original call is now on-line and the person calling did not identify the two "intruders" as Black men. She also said that they had suitcases and might not be intruders.

Interesting! What was the original news story based on?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 03:43 PM

To be fair, the 911 transcript and the recordings at the ECC ( of the police radio calls, with whatever can be heard of the background) should all be released and examined. The witnesses ( per the police report) should give testimony, and the truth should be determined beyond a reasonable doubt. Both sides should present their versions, and a jury of their peers should determine who is lying.

I think that's called a trial.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 04:00 PM

Or we could just forget about it and all get on with something that actually matters?

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 04:18 PM

LH,

Hey, even this vital news item was upstaged by M. Jackson death info alerts.

You really need to understand what is important.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 04:23 PM

fuggetaboutit? no can do. World Beer Summit on Thursday. The entire world will be watching to take the measure of Obama and whether he has the abilities to ratchet down world regional tensions and conflicts. (Glad Gates isn't my friend. . . )

"As Crowley enters the premises of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., he should be careful. I hope he doesn't find himself cast as racially insensitive or on the wrong end of a lecture about how to do police work by those who have never had to do it.

After all, nothing ruins a good beer like the taste of condescension."

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/615/story/1006144.html

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:33 PM

BB - Yeah...I guess. (smile)

Say, what is up with Paris Hilton lately anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:38 PM

Paris, Ann and Sarah arr forming a singing trio. Their promo shots will involve the play, "Macbeth" and then they'll do a world tour.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 10:31 AM

sorry to bring this back up but here's a concise summary stating that contempt of cop can not be punished as disorderly conduct



(I still find it hard to believe I could torment a parking meter monitor just for fun, but whatever.)

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 11:02 AM

HERIC,

RE THE ARTICLE-

"Gates being arrested in his own home for questioning a police officer, an act that was neither seen nor heard by a member of the ''general public'' outside Gates' home – is as close to a certain illegal arrest as it gets.
"

False on two points.

1. Gates was arrested after following the policeman out of the house.
2. There was a (small) crowd of the general public there, which the police claim were shocked at Gate's words. So, it was obviously heard and seen.

In any case, the person making the claim ( in the article ) was not there. It should have gone to trial, and the guilty party, be it Gates OR the policeman, held responsible.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 11:16 AM

yeah you're right that was not objectively written. Home for yard might be a fair synonym, but there were public witnesses. Also: The Mass. case it cites does not say that a risk of social unrest is required, just that the display might have "an impact" (see "annoyance," above) on the public. It also doesn't exclude cops from "the public" entirely - it says they are "different." hmm

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 12:27 PM

Here is what I meant when I postulated that virtually NO White person can know what it is like:

Leonard Pitts, Jr., Columnist


"The second argument is naive. One white guy I know recounts his own experience - cop barged into his home at 3 a.m., rousting him from bed, demanding I.D. - and says: "This (expletive) happens all over the place and it has nothing to do with race."

"And I say: I'll see your 3 a.m. roust and raise you Tony, jacked up on a street in Harlem, Bill, with a cop's gun to his head, Bryan, pulled over for an air freshener on his rear-view mirror, James, ordered to pull down his pants and lie on the curb, Robert, threatened with injury for drinking beer in the parking lot with friends after work. And that's just among guys I know, including three preachers.

"Now, broaden it to include the bridegroom shot to death on his wedding day, the African immigrant killed while reaching for his wallet, the Maryland man beaten senseless as he lay in bed, the Miami man beaten to death for speeding, the dozens of men jailed on manufactured evidence in Los Angeles and manufactured police testimony in Tulia, Texas, the man sodomized with a broomstick in New York.

"And if this expletive has nothing to do with race, then where are the stories of white men sodomized with brooms or shot while reaching for wallets? Are we supposed to believe it coincidence that the men this happens to always happen to be black?"

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 12:35 PM

"contempt of cop can not be punished"

Oh yeah? ;-) Try being openly contemptuous of cops in any town or city in Ontario, Canada, heric. Chances are very, very good that they will find some way of arresting you and/or charging you with something. They're extremely creative when put to that test, I assure you, and they can virtually always come up with something.

Showing contempt to a cop is exactly like showing contempt to a bull in a pasture or waving your hands wildly at a nest of hornets. The bull will usually charge. The hornets will sting. You can complain all you want that there is no specific law giving the bull the right to trample you as you run around trying not to get trampled and gored, but it won't do you any good at all. Only fools who can't manage their own hasty emotional impulses openly show contempt to cops, bulls, and hornets.

It's a game. Never forget that. You must play the game wisely or you will lose.

Gates figured he was somebody "important" AND somebody being discriminated against solely because of his skin color, and he reacted from those assumptions. He was not playing the game wisely.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:01 PM

Here's the statute:
M.G.L.A. c. 272, § 53:

"Common night walkers, common street walkers, both male and female, common railers and brawlers, persons who with offensive and disorderly acts or language accost or annoy persons of the opposite sex, lewd, wanton and lascivious persons in speech or behavior, idle and disorderly persons, disturbers of the peace, keepers of noisy and disorderly houses, and persons guilty of indecent exposure may be punished by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than six months, or by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment."

Disorderly conduct is punished by this (which can be called the "disturbers of the peace statute"), but is derived from the common law:

A person commits the offense of being a disorderly person if, "with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof," he or she (1) "engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior" or (2) "creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor." See Alegata v. Commonwealth, 353 Mass. 287, 303-304 (1967); Commonwealth v. A Juvenile, 368 Mass. 580, 587-597 (1975).
----------------------------

The phrase "disturbers of the peace," as used in the disturbing the peace statute, is construed in accordance with the common-law definition of the offense, making it a crime to disturb the peace of the public, or some segment of the public, by actions, conduct or utterances, the combination of which constitutes a common nuisance.

A two-part test is used to determine whether a defendant's conduct constitutes disturbing the peace, the first asking whether most people would find the conduct to be unreasonably disruptive, and second asking whether it did in fact infringe on someone's right to be undisturbed; the first prong is normative and protects potential defendants from prosecutions based on individual sensitivities, while the second prong requires that the crime have a victim, and thus subjects potential defendants to criminal prosecution only when their activities have detrimental impact.

Time and place are factors to be considered in determining whether activities are "unreasonably disruptive" for purposes of a disturbing the peace charge.

----------------------------------------------

While acknowledging the constitutional protections that surround speech, the Commonwealth asserts that the defendant's loud and angry verbal tirade rose to the criminal level of tumultuous disorderly conduct under subsection (a) quoted above. The Commonwealth argues that tumultuous behavior, "while perhaps not physically violent, may nevertheless be characterized as involving riotous commotion and excessively unreasonable noise so as to constitute a public nuisance." Commonwealth v. A Juvenile, 368 Mass. at 597, 334 N.E.2d 617. We conclude, however, that on the evidence presented, the defendant's loud tirade could not be prosecuted as tumultuous behavior under this definition.

The Commonwealth concedes that "there was absolutely no evidentiary support for the hazardous or physically offensive condition prong of the statute. There was essentially no live issue at trial concerning a hazardous or physically offensive condition." (Com. Br. at 21) Instead, the evidence (including the testimony of the two arresting officers) showed only that the defendant verbally protested his arrest, taunted the officers with possible legal action, and railed about the officers' hurting his neck. Words alone are not sufficient to establish tumultuous conduct. The only exception for a word-predicated offense under G.L. c. 272, § 53, is for "fighting words," that is, words, "which by their very utterance inflict injury or intend to incite an immediate breach of the peace." Commonwealth v. A Juvenile, supra at 591, 334 N.E.2d 617, quoting from Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568, 572, 62 S.Ct. 766, 86 L.Ed. 1031 (1942). The Commonwealth does not contend, nor could it, that the defendant's speech in this case constitutes fighting words. That the defendant's language was vulgar and unpleasant did not translate the speech into tumultuous, disorderly conduct. "To be disorderly, within the sense of the statute, the conduct must disturb through acts other than speech; neither a provocative nor a foul mouth transgresses the statute." Commonwealth v. LePore, 40 Mass.App.Ct. 543, 546, 666 N.E.2d 152 (1996). "[T]he mere use of obscenities in public does not make out the crime of disorderly conduct...." Commonwealth v. Johnson, 36 Mass.App.Ct. 336, 338, 631 N.E.2d 71 (1994).

The Commonwealth further argues that the defendant's nighttime eruption outside the apartment complex was noisy enough to cause people to gather and neighbors to look out their apartment windows and, as such, was extreme enough to constitute disorderly conduct. However, the mere fact that persons may be drawn to a scene because of noise and "verbal cacophony" does not mean that a defendant has engaged in criminally tumultuous disorderly conduct. See Commonwealth v. A Juvenile, supra at 593, 334 N.E.2d 617, quoting from Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15, 25, 91 S.Ct. 1780, 29 L.Ed.2d 284 (1971). On this issue, we note that in Commonwealth v. A Juvenile, supra at 582, 334 N.E.2d 617, "a crowd of approximately 100 shoppers gathered" to watch the episode. That level of crowd gathering did not qualify the juvenile's verbal tirade as tumultuous, disorderly conduct under that prong of the definition; nor did the lesser assemblage of the estimated ten or so persons who gathered outside the apartments in the instant case. (Moreover, in this case the evidence was mixed concerning the timing of onlookers gathering because certain of the onlookers came outside during the originating domestic violence incident and with the arrival of the cruisers-both of which events preceded the defendant's arrest and loud verbal protest.)

*3 Finally, the Commonwealth's depiction of an extreme, tumultuous event is not persuasive. In this respect, Commonwealth v. Lopiano, 60 Mass.App.Ct. 723, 805 N.E.2d 522 (2004), is instructive. In that case, the police came upon Lopiano fighting with his girlfriend in a car and ordered him to exit. Lopiano approached the police officer yelling and flailing his arms, protesting that the police were violating his civil rights. The court held this episode did not "support a reasonable inference that 'the noise and commotion caused by the [defendant's] behavior was ... extreme.' " Id. at 726, 805 N.E.2d 522, quoting from Commonwealth v. Sholley, 432 Mass. at 729, 739 N.E.2d 236. Accord Norwell v. Cincinnati, 414 U.S. 14, 16, 94 S.Ct. 187, 38 L.Ed.2d 170 (1973) (reversing a conviction for disorderly conduct where the defendant's protestations to the arresting officers were protected speech).

The judgment is reversed and the verdict is set aside. Judgment shall enter for the defendant.

So ordered.

Mass.App.Ct.,2008.
Com. v. Mallahan
72 Mass.App.Ct. 1103, 889 N.E.2d 77 Unpublished Disposition

(Following his arrest for assault and battery arising out of a domestic violence incident, the defendant launched a screaming tirade at the arresting police officers. The defendant's loud yelling continued for some ten minutes, as the officers walked the defendant, in handcuffs, from an apartment toward the police cruiser. The defendant's rantings included warnings that he would sue the officers, as well as loud protestations interlaced with profanities that he had done nothing wrong, including that he never "fucking touched that bitch." When they reached the cruiser, the defendant stiffened his body upright. One officer placed his hand on the defendant's head in order to move the defendant into the cruiser. The defendant sat on the cruiser's seat but left his feet outside. The defendant, who recently had neck surgery, yelled that the police had hurt his neck. The officers removed the handcuffs and called the fire department. An ambulance transported the defendant to South Shore Hospital and then to Massachusetts General Hospital.

During the originating domestic violence incident, approximately six people in the housing complex had emerged from their apartments and gathered outside. As the cruisers arrived with sirens on, additional residents emerged or peered out their apartment windows. At one point, it was estimated ten persons were outside.)

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:05 PM

(My prior guess that verbal abuse could create a "physically offensive condition" was all wrong.)

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:18 PM

If you think NO White person can know what profiling is like, you would maybe not hold that view had you been a long-haired hippie in Montreal before it became the rage. I was braced frequently by cops, and certainly I received my share of comments: "Hey, queer!" "Faggot!" "Ni##er lover!"

And what of gals who dress as they wish only to be looked at as whores or street-walkers? That's also profiling. Profiling existed long before Bush's regeime gave it a name, but it DID exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:51 PM

Darn right, Peace! I experienced extremely prejudiced profiling by police and other prejudiced people from the moment I started growing my hair long in 1969-70 and generally looking like a musician of the time. And I'm White.

Also, I've heard that it's quite dangerous for a White person to go walking around in certain inner-city neighborhoods in various large North American cities. Why? Profiling, that's why.

Being White (or female) (or male) (or in fact anything at all) can definitely subject you to negative profiling...it depends on where you are, who's doing the profiling, and what's happening at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:02 PM

Come on it matters when then profiler has a gun and when he has the authority of the government and when he works for you. We have to work to stop it even if it can never be stopped.

(Gates, however, should go sit on a popsicle stick.)

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:04 PM

Yeah. Even back in the very early 1960s, the cops in Montreal had guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:09 PM

I find nothing to argue with in that last post of yours, heric. Agreed on every point.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:16 PM

heric


re 2:02

Agreed on all points!

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:19 PM

If profiling took place, indeed it has to be stopped. NO question.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:26 PM

Those girls dressed provocatively don't deserve any trouble, to be sure, but they do, in my opinion, deserve a very good scolding and an appreciation for the harm they cause society, the discomfort they cause men, their contribution to social unpleasantness. It is legally but not morally right to dress that way...there, I said it, so shoot me. And even news anchors etc. going around half dressed...sometimes in a most unattractive manner. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 03:02 PM

...the discomfort they cause men...   I think that is one aspect of this behaviour that can be greatly exaggerated. Aside from when the men in question might walk into lampposts while distracted, and that sort of thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 03:53 PM

I'm NOT talking of profiling. I'm talking about the perception of profiling.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 03:55 PM

I came within a hair of walking into a lamppost once because I was looking at an attractive woman. ;-) I hold no grudges against her over the incident, but I have remained a bit nervous of lampposts to this day...

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 04:33 PM

The 911 call that started it was placed by this woman, and they've replayed it enough now to know that she didn't assign race or blame, and even suggested that the men may be the homeowners. That was lost in the police report. In fact, when I first read about it, the story was already leaning to what inflammatory "facts" the 911 caller had inserted into the conversation. She didn't. So it looks like the police did.

Caller in Gates Case Says She Didn't Mention Race

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — Lucia Whalen, whose 911 call led to the arrest of the Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. at his home, made her first public comments Wednesday, saying at no time did she ever mention race to the responding police officer.

Ms. Whalen's statements contradict the police report filed by Sgt. James Crowley, who said Ms. Whalen told him outside Mr. Gates's home that she had seen "what appeared to be two black males with backpacks" on the porch of the yellow single-family house.

Ms. Whalen said that the only words she exchanged with Sergeant Crowley in person were, "I was the 911 caller." She said that he responded, "Stay right there."

Ms. Whalen, 40, her voice cracking, said she was deeply hurt by the reaction to the incident on July 16. She said she and her family had been the target of threats, which led her to speak out.

"When I was called a racist, I was the target of scorn and ridicule because of things I never said," she told the reporters gathered in a park here at midday. She added, "The criticism hurt me as a person but also hurt the community of Cambridge."

On Monday, the Cambridge police released the tape of Ms. Whalen's 911 call in which she told the dispatcher she had "no idea" if two men — who turned out to be Professor Gates and his driver — were breaking into the house, repeatedly mentioning that they might live there. She said that the two men pushed a door in with their shoulders, and that she was unsure "if they live there and just had a hard time with their key."

Ms. Whalen did not mention the men's race until a dispatcher asked her if they were black, white or Hispanic.

"There were two larger men," she said in the audio released Monday. "One looked kind of Hispanic, but I'm not really sure," she said, adding that she did not see what the second man "looked like at all."

Ms. Whalen also told the dispatcher that she called 911 on behalf of an elderly neighbor who saw the men trying to get into the house.

On Wednesday, she said she hoped that with the tapes out, "people can see that I tried to be careful," adding that she never thought that her words "would be analyzed by an entire nation."

She said that she had been the target of threats but that, after reflection, she would make the same call again.

"I respect the Cambridge police as well as Professor Gates and I hope my decision to speak out does not add any controversy to what has been a difficult situation," she said.

The Cambridge police have stood by their report and could not be immediately reached for comment.

The disorderly conduct charge against Professor Gates was dropped, and he and Sergeant Crowley plan to meet with President Obama for a beer at the White House on Thursday.

Ms. Whalen, who works at Harvard Magazine, said she was not asked to join the men at the meeting. Her lawyer, Wendy Murphy, who accompanied her to the news conference, said her client should go if asked.

"The three highly trained guys who acted badly are getting together for a beer tomorrow at the White House, and that's a good thing," Ms. Murphy said. "The one person whose actions were exemplary will be at work tomorrow here in Cambridge."

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 04:41 PM

"She didn't. So it looks like the police did."

                   Or Gates did!

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 05:08 PM

Rig, read Sgt. Crowley's police report.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 05:39 PM

Sorry, Eb. I misunderstood.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 05:44 PM

So she said large(r) men?

So she did speak to Crowley at the scene?

Facts are like ghosts.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 07:08 PM

So we now have another way to split the players here up..and that is elderly vs. middle-aged. And believe me, many many elderly of all races and persuasions live in terror, some with good reason, some with unnecessary fear. But it is something that needs to be addressed in this teaching moment. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 08:50 PM

"Or Gates did it!".

Perhaps the magnificent thinker who favored us with that bit of wisdom can tell us just how Gates can write the police report. Or maybe the poster can just start thinking before hitting "send". Which would be a pleasant change.






The truth of the question on the police report, will, I'm afraid, disappoint conspiracy theorists all over the spectrum, despite some Mudcatters' delight in such things.

Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert Haas has said " the report is merely a summary of events." (AP 27 July 2009)





Those of us actually interested in the legal aspects of this--and there don't seem to be many Mudcatters aside from heric, Ebbie and I who are---owe a huge debt to heric for his sleuthing in the actual case history of the law.

"It should have gone to trial".   Only if Massachusetts was in a mood to throw away a lot of money--since the state would never have won.

Consider the results of the trials cited by heric. A case is cited in which "approximately 100 shoppers gathered" to watch. The state lost the case. In another case, the defendant's language was vulgar.   The state lost again. The mere use of obscenities does not make out the crime of disorderly conduct, as was noted there.

Interestingly, there is such a thing a "word-predicated offense" for "fighting words" which "by their very utterance inflict injury or intend to incite an immediate breach of the peace".
"Let's go burn down the fucking cop building", I suspect, would qualify. It's not clear what else would. But "To be disorderly, within the sense of the statute, the conduct must disturb through acts other than speech; neither a provocative nor a foul mouth transgresses the statute".   That's a clue. It takes quite a bit.

And nothing Gates said or did comes remotely close.

Face it:   Sgt Crowley was dead wrong to arrest Prof Gates, despite Gates' star turn in "Professors Behaving Badly". And it's disheartening to see the Cambridge police department stand behind Sgt Crowley.   Just as it's disheartening to see how Gates denies much of what he said.

But the arrest does not prove "racial profiling" by a long shot. And the police support is police solidarity with an angry policeman.

As a WSJ column by Thomas Frank points out, Gates himself, in a 1992 book, said something that fits perfectly the reaction to this incident--across the political spectrum:   "...the routinized production of righteous indignation is allowed to substitute for critical rigor".

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 09:00 PM

Also: From MSNBC 29 July 2009:   "NYT:   Cops 'don't get paid to be abused'."

That may be the crux of it.

And in fact that's wrong:   cops do get paid to take abuse.

As a Los Angeles officer, with the force 25 years, is quoted:   "....if you don't have a tough skin, you shouldn't be a cop".

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 09:10 PM

Like I said way back in this thread, Gates was arrested for contempt. Contempt of Cop. It's how they get even with the parties who don't hold the cop or his activities in high regard. Even if it doesn't go anywhere, i.e., charges dropped, it is still damned annoying to be subjected to that process. And cops know it. That's why they do it. It's an abuse of power, just to get even.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 09:15 PM

Ron - Haven't you noticed how Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton fall all over themselves for the chance to get arrested? Gate just simply didn't want to feel left out. That's why he pushed things to the breaking point. All of the evidence supports that.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: fumblefingers
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 11:01 PM

Perhaps the Cambridge police should be given a course on who the big shots and untouchables are in the area. The course might also teach the officers how to bow properly and doff their hats to their betters.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 11:06 PM

Good point, fumble!

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 12:55 AM

I told myself that I wasn't going to post to this thread. But Riginslinger's and fumblefinger's exchange caused me to change my mind.

Let me first make this editorial comment-I had decided not to post to this thread because I am sick & tired of being the only African American (who publicly acknowledges her/his race) posting to Mudcat threads about race.

And for those who might ask "Does the racial identity of persons discussing racial topics matter?" I say sometimes, and maybe most times-most definitely. This doesn't mean that all persons who have the same racial identity will agree on racial topics. And it doesn't mean that people who have different racial identities will not reach the same conclusions about this topic. But in my opinion, there's a lot to be said about posting from one's experiences. And with regard to this particular subject, I feel very strongly that if there were more Black people who post on this forum and on this thread, this discussion would likely be far different than it has been.

So since no one else has posted this related news yet, I will. And then (regardless of any postings that I might agree with, or I might consider to be waay out to lunch, I won't post any other comments to this thread for the reason I've already stated...

**

"Boston cop suspended after racist outburst: (AFP) – 2 hours ago

BOSTON — Boston police said they had suspended an officer for a racist email likely to renew tensions over the recent arrest of black Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates.

"Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis placed Officer Justin Barrett, 36, on administrative leave pending the outcome of a termination hearing," a spokesman for the force told AFP in a statement.

"Commissioner Davis was made aware of a correspondence with racist remarks and yesterday removed the officer of his gun and badge."

The email describes Gates, who was arrested and briefly detained earlier this month at Harvard, near Boston, as a "banana-eating jungle monkey," according to a copy published by news site MyFoxBoston.com.

The city's mayor, Tom Menino, was quoted referring to Barrett as a "cancer in the department" and calling on him to be fired."...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g4pbTC14vyFkwQwh_uu8j5BTMmTA

**


Here's an excerpt from another article about that particular incident:

-snip-

"A Boston police officer was placed on administrative leave after he allegedly used a racial slur when referring to Henry Louis Gates Jr.

In a mass e-mail, Officer Justin Barrett, 36, called Gates a "jungle monkey," according to Elaine Driscoll, a spokeswoman for the Boston Police Department.

Gates, a black Harvard scholar, was arrested at his home earlier this month on a disorderly conduct charge after he tried to budge open the door of his Cambridge home.

Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis found out about the e-mail on Tuesday and immediately stripped Barrett of his gun and badge, Driscoll said. The e-mail was sent anonymously to his Barrett's fellow guard members and the Boston Globe.

Boston Mayor Tom Menino called Barrett a "cancer in the department."

"He should be fired. He should be gone," Menino said.

Barrett, who is also a member of the National Guard, is assigned to District B-3. He was placed on administrative leave pending a termination hearing.

Gates became the center of a national debate on racism when he was charged with disorderly conduct after arguing with police sent to investigate a suspected burglary at his home near Harvard University.

President Barack Obama became embroiled in the uproar when he said police acted "stupidly." On Thursday, Obama is due to host both Gates and the arresting officer at the White House for what officials say will be a friendly beer.

But the email has reignited the controversy and dealt Boston's police a severe image blow just when they and the White House were hoping to calm tensions.

The email allegedly written by Barrett lambasts Gates for getting into an altercation with police.

"I am not a racist, but I am prejudice towards people who are stupid," reads the alleged diatribe -- containing frequent grammatical and spelling errors -- against Gates and local newspaper the Boston Globe.

"He has indeed transcended back to a bumbling jungle monkey."


http://www.officer.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=5&id=47735

-snip-

If that particular Boston police officer took a course in cultural competency or in racial profiling, he flunked those courses in real life.

It's a shame because-in the main-this officer might be a pretty decent person and he might otherwise have been a good police officer. But he definitely made the wrong choice by sending out that mass email containing a racial slur. Hopefully, that former officer and others will learn from this situation since such opinions and such attitudes that were (are) held by police officers in Boston and elsewhere in the USA have resulted in death and other physical, mental, and emotional harm to persons that police officers were sworn to protect and defend.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 02:07 AM

Have I ever told you, Azizi, that I'm glad you are here? I am.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Janie
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 06:48 AM

Steve Inskeep and Juan Williams    had a thoughtful conversation regarding this on Morning Addition yesterday that if you didn't hear, is worth reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 01:54 PM

Well said, Azizi. I have been off the i'net for a bit--just returned from Montreal. I'm glad you're here, too. Always have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: fumblefingers
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 11:31 PM

Azizi,

I think this entire episode was caused by the hyper-inflated ego of a feller who is far too proud of himself--his race notwithstanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 11:57 PM

Gates wanted not to "feel left out" so he wanted to be arrested.   Well, at least we can depend on something.   The brilliant poster who came up with that gem is indeed close to the perfect negative indicator-- though he may well not even know what that means.

"All the evidence supports that" only in that poster's head--which is certainly good for comic relief, but unfortunately not much else.   He shows no signs of even entertaining the possibility of actually thinking before hitting "send".

Ah well, we can hope.

It is certainly interesting that that poster loses virtually no opportunity to smear any prominent black or Hispanic.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 12:05 AM

And it doesn't matter who "caused" the incident.   The only crucial point is the arrest. And I have not seen one post from anyone which justifies the arrest, and it's rather obvious who carried out the arrest. And it was not Professor Gates.

But please feel free to tell us why the arrest was justified. Please be sure of course to put your argument in the framework of Massachusetts law, since if you were Sgt Crowley, that's where you would have to defend it.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 12:53 AM

"Gates wanted not to "feel left out" so he wanted to be arrested."

                  And look where it got him. That's what he wanted. Imagine all of his black associates who envy him because they haven't figured out some way to get arrested.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 01:04 AM

An awful lot of excuses are being made here for (or against) two guys (one White and one Black) who couldn't swallow a little of their macho pride and be half reasonable to each other in a stressful situation....

How about they both accuse each other of racism and see who can squeeze the most milk out of that cow? Or has the media already taken care of that angle? Well, yeah, I guess they have. Never mind. The cow is absolutely bone dry by now.

What a sad waste of people's time and energy this tawdry little incident has become. And meanwhile...there's a health care problem that needs to be solved in the USA, isn't there? And it affects at least 40 million people, if not a good many more than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: mg
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 02:13 AM

Public safety is a health care problem..probably the biggest one we have. Everything good flows from public safety -- good health, good nutrition, jobs, college, less stress, more happiness. Life itself. Liberty itself..which you don't have if you are terrified of going outside.

So this is not a trivial or tawdry incident. It is of massive importance because racial profiling is a huge problem, I am sure we would admit. Impertinence to the police is a huge problem because it makes their lives worse, them less able to respond quickly, and will grow and grow and grow exponentially and virally if it is not stopped. Snow plow lady and her ilk must not get deferential treatment from the police and minority youth must not get increased police interaction when they are not doing anything.

Fix this problem and health care will fall into place. There will purely and simply be fewer sick people because probably the two biggest sources of stress in their lives -- personal safety and financial woes due to underemployment -- will greatly improve. When a grocer or a laundress or a chiropractor is afraid to move into certain neighborhoods, when fire departments are afraid to answer calls, when taxis are afraid to venture -- are these all not health problems? Employment problems? Yes, they are. Can we fix things? Yes we can, if we would rather fix than agitate. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 06:54 AM

Anybody who thinks Prof Gates "wanted" to be arrested for any reason needs his own head examined.   And we certainly hope the poster gets professional help soon.

It certainly is, as I noted earlier, remarkable that that poster constantly attacks prominent blacks and Hispanics. Sounds amazingly like blatant racism---which we don't need on Mudcat.



Also:   "sad waste of people's time and energy".   Actually, this bit of fatuous pontification is off base for several reasons:

1)    Mary and some other posters have it right.   The incident actually brought up some burning issues:

the continuing problem of racism,

the "victim culture"--on all sides-- which complicates dealing with it,

the disgraceful state of law in the US, with the result that huge numbers of people, including some law enforcers, either have no way to know how to negotiate it or are willing to exploit the murky nature of it to play power games.


2) Also, it is not at all a " sad waste of people's time and energy" for anyone who intends to stop President Obama's health care reform.   Chances for health care reform depend to a large extent on his personal popularity, which as a result of this incident and his role in the aftermath has taken a hit. And the more prominence this incident receives the greater the damage to President Obama.   The fact this story has amazing "legs" is not good for health care reform--or anything else which depends heavily on President Obama's personal political capital.


And all this should be obvious to anyone who actually thinks about it.