BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:05 PM

It was Crowley who wanted to get out of there.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 10:52 PM

"It may be the safest option, but not necessarily the best. And sometimes it's not even the safest option.

I did carefully insert the word 'almost'.....when I was typing, I went back did this for a reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: DougR
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:39 PM

As I understand it, a neighbor of the professor called the police and reported there was a "break-in" in progress. A policeman responded to the call, and asked Mr. Gates to come outside. He refused and screamed at the policeman accusing him of racial profiling. He was not arrested for breaking and entering, he had already convinced the Sgt. that he was entering his own house. He was arrested for creating a disturbance.

It seems to me that Mr. Gates over reacted by deciding to play the race card. I think he owes the policeman an apology.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:00 PM

"...that of two grown men unable to deal with a minor misunderstanding in a civil manner."

It may be fair enough to describe shouting as failing to deal with a misunderstanding in a civil manner. If this had turned into a shouting match both parties might reasonably be critiised in that way.

But slapping handcuffs on the other person and dragging them off to be locked up in a cell is something else. Just because you're a policeman doesn't give you the right to do that, unless you're living in a police state.

It is almost always best to cooperate with police at the time and complain later." It may be the safest option, but not necessarily the best. And sometimes it's not even the safest option.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: meself
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:48 PM

There are a couple of ways of looking at it, and they've been touched on by various posters. One is strictly legalistic: if the cop did not do everything by the book, and if Gates stayed entirely within his legal rights, then only the cop can be criticized. There is, however, a more "human" way of looking at it: if you can see past the uniform and the skin colours, what you get is an all-too-common type of human failure - that of two grown men unable to deal with a minor misunderstanding in a civil manner.

At this point, an exchange of apologies, as per Bill D, would do far more for race relations than continued posturing. (Maybe Obama, now that he has blundered into it, should invite them to the Oval Office for tea, then come out for a photo op with them all grinning and group-hugging.)

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:44 PM

"If a society requires that deference be shown to police even if they are doing wrong..."

'Deference' may be the wrong word. How about 'compliance'? It is almost always best to cooperate with police at the time and complain later, once you have thought it over.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Midchuck
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:32 PM

One thing's for sure.

One of the two principal parties is a racist.

Further deponent sayeth not.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:32 PM

And , if one believes the police report, what WRONG was the policeman doing???

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:30 PM

If a society requires that deference be shown to police even if they are doing wrong (that's "IF") then there is a profound sickness at the heart of that society.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:26 PM

If a famous, learned, respected black professor becomes upset and asserts racism as the cause of his upset, whether it's true or not, we have a major incident. 'Racism' is an attitude residing within a person, and not something that one usually determines from a couple minutes conversation.
Mr. Gates could have accused the officer of 'just being silly', or 'overdoing' the questioning...or he could have sighed and said,"Ok...here's all my ID...I really do live here. I need to get to bed now."
Instead, for whatever reason, he assumed that any white police officer that went further than he, Gates, thought was 'reasonable', was a stereotypical 'racist'. That officer seems to have quite an exemplary record in NOT behaving that way.
It may well be that the officer 'could' have handled it better, but we do NOT know the exact words, their order and the tone in which they were spoken by either man.

I just saw a TV interview with a black pundit who wrote:"Skip...you mouthed off, man." I suspect he did....for whatever reason....and cops tend to react when someone mouths off, even if the guy IS tired & upset. One other pundit's remark was "you have to respect the badge, if not the man".....that is what *I* referred to in my story about Mississippi.

   *I* think the officer & Gates owe each other an apology for not dealing with the situation as well as they could have.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:03 PM

Bill Cosby 'shocked' at Obama's statement on Harvard prof's arrest
By Jimmy Orr | 07.23.09

On a Boston radio program this morning, Bill Cosby suggested that President Obama spoke too soon on the controversial arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates.

"I've heard about five different reports [on the details of the arrest]," Cosby said on Boston's WZLX. "If I'm the president of the United States, I don't care how much pressure people want to put on it about race, I'm keeping my mouth shut."

"I was shocked to hear the president making this kind of statement," Cosby said referring to the president's remarks during last night's press conference.

The comedian appeared to have dialed his comments back a bit in a later interview on Boston's FOX 25 television station. Cosby cautioned those from coming up with their own conclusions, but gave the president some leeway.

"People who have not been there, people who don't know are beginning to have their own personal feelings, but they weren't there," Cosby said.

"Does this include the president?" asked the FOX25 reporter.

"It includes everybody," Cosby said. "[But] I would have to take into consideration that he lived in Cambridge for some time so he may know more than he's saying about situations of that sort," Cosby said.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:01 PM

Cop who arrested black scholar is profiling expert

Jul 23 03:17 PM US/Eastern
By DENISE LAVOIE
Associated Press Writer

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (AP) - The white police sergeant criticized by President Barack Obama for arresting black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. in his Massachusetts home is a police academy expert on racial profiling.

Cambridge Sgt. James Crowley has taught a class on racial profiling for five years at the Lowell Police Academy after being hand-picked for the job by former police Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black, said Academy Director Thomas Fleming.

"I have nothing but the highest respect for him as a police officer. He is very professional and he is a good role model for the young recruits in the police academy," Fleming told The Associated Press on Thursday.

The course, called "Racial Profiling," teaches about different cultures that officers could encounter in their community "and how you don't want to single people out because of their ethnic background or the culture they come from," Fleming said.

Obama has said the Cambridge officers "acted stupidly" in arresting Gates last week when they responded to his house after a woman reported a suspected break-in.

Crowley, 42, has maintained he did nothing wrong and has refused to apologize, as Gates has demanded.

Crowley responded to Gates' home near Harvard University last week to investigate a report of a burglary and demanded Gates show him identification. Police say Gates at first refused, flew into a rage and accused the officer of racism.

Gates was charged with disorderly conduct. The charge was dropped Tuesday.

Gates' supporters maintain his arrest was a case of racial profiling. Officers were called to the home by a woman who said she saw "two black males with backpacks" trying to break in the front door. Gates has said he arrived home from an overseas trip and the door was jammed.

....

In radio interviews Thursday morning, Crowley maintained he followed procedure.

"I support the president of the United States 110 percent. I think he was way off base wading into a local issue without knowing all the facts as he himself stated before he made that comment," Crowley told WBZ-AM. "I guess a friend of mine would support my position, too."

Crowley did not immediately respond to messages left Thursday by the AP. The Cambridge police department scheduled a news conference for later Thursday.

....

Fellow officers, black and white, say Crowley is well-liked and respected on the force. Crowley was a campus police officer at Brandeis University in July 1993 when he administered CPR trying to save the life of former Boston Celtics player Reggie Lewis. Lewis, who was black, collapsed and died during an off-season workout.

.....

Police supporters charge that Gates, director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research, was responsible for his own arrest by overreacting.




http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99KBEAO1&show_article=1

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 04:51 PM

"There's a claim by Crowley that he "began to" give his name, and at a later point, when asked again, he refused to give it, on the ground that he had already done so twice. Not very clear at all.
"


"He then demanded to know who I was. I told him I was "Sgt. Crowley from the Cambridge Police" and that I was "investigating a report of a break in progress" at the residence"



Seems clear to me. It sounds like Gates is lying, to me. But that is from one point of view- I'll wait to convict EITHER party when there is more information available. Unlike our president, who can make judgements without knowing the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 04:03 PM

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates2.html


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates3.html

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 04:01 PM

"IF it was true, which the police reports indicates it is not."

There's a claim by Crowley that he "began to" give his name, and at a later point, when asked again, he refused to give it, on the ground that he had already done so twice. Not very clear at all.

In any case surely the right word is not "indicates" but "asserts" - or strictly speaking "implies".

All in all, even from that report, it sounds like a thoroughly bungled little bit of police work. That's be so even if the question of whether racism was involved is set aside, or if Crowley can demonstrate that he deals with white people in the same way.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 03:58 PM

I'd bet that if the officer and HLG were left alone over a beer or two they'd have it straight in ten minutes with no hard feelings either way. imo, ymmv.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: olddude
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 03:54 PM

I can only hope this is not the case. Dr. Gates is highly respected. I heard him lecture once and he is amazing to say the least. But he now has non stop national publicity all over the networks ... for free... not a bad thing when you write books and go on the lecture circuit ...

Gosh I sure hope it is not the case. Nothing however surprises me anymore from anyone. I only bring it up because I really do have no idea what really came down. But the officers record doesn't support racism to me at least from his past actions.   

It would be a horrible thing if it was done to get news ... I don't believe in my heart that is the case but one does have to think about it these days. I never thought a respected governor would try to sell a senate seat either ...

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 03:30 PM

Okay I'll express an opinion on the facts so far:

Gates' many friends describe him as easy-going, affable and witty. I can understand that Gates was sick and suffering jet lag at the time. I can't understand why he continues to be a drama queen. Now he's even drawn the President of the United States of America into his teacup without expressing remorse.

If the producers allow him to include his own story in his movie, it will certainly be a boring documentary.

If I were a victim of racial profiling I would be silently simmering at this narcissistic display.

When Obama invited open discussions about race relations in America I believe he had something much less trivial than this in mind.

Fact I'm most interested in now is whether witnesses in the front yard heard Sgt. Crowley twice advise Gates, in Chris Rock's vernacular, to shut the fuck up.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 03:02 PM

Well, I think the police should have dropped things once he provided identification.

I also think all of us, and I speak as a middle-aged (very) white woman..have to be prepared to deal with the police in a cooperative manner. I know it is hard for young men especially not to escalate things..which is why I think others must also be exposed to police interactions and treated the same..and where I live I was stopped by the police frequently because everyone is when driving...so I consider it my duty as a citizen to be polite etc. Otherwise, in the broader picture, you have police who will just give up, do the minimum, or get out of the business if they know they will be yelled at etc..and in a dangerous situation, they need to have immediate control. So for now I think our choice is do we want police protection or not..because it is very easy for them to not police certain neighborhoods properly, or not provide protection to certain ethnic groups properly if they know they will be yelled at etc...just don't bother...and this house had had a prior break-in.

So the police should have de-escalated the situation but it is up to all of us to decide if we want the other side of police protection, which is cooperative behavior on all of our accounts and not just the young men who are the usual partners in police interactions....a middle-aged scholarly man, an elderly nurse..we all need to cooperate and not get treated differently than the younger men. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 02:35 PM

"if it is true that he refused to let Gates have his name and badge number, how can he possibly refuse to apologise? "

IF it was true, which the police reports indicates it is not.

So , no reason TO apologise.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 02:30 PM

"Gates said he turned over his driver's license and Harvard ID — both with his photos — and repeatedly asked for the name and badge number of the officer, who refused."

Whether he's a racist or not, if it is true that he refused to let Gates have his name and badge number, how can he possibly refuse to apologise?

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: pdq
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:48 AM

Officer in Henry Gates flap tried to save Reggie Lewis

Denies he's a racist, won't apologize

                                                                     article here


By Laurel J. Sweet, Marie Szaniszlo, Laura Crimaldi, Jessica Van Sack & Joe Dwinell  |   Thursday, July 23, 2009

The Cambridge cop prominent Harvard University professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. claims is a racist gave a dying Reggie Lewis mouth-to-mouth resuscitation in a desperate bid to save the Celtics superstar's life 16 years ago Monday.

"I wasn't working on Reggie Lewis the basketball star. I wasn't working on a black man. I was working on another human being," Sgt. James Crowley, in an exclusive interview with the Herald, said of the forward's fatal heart attack July 27, 1993, at age 27 during an off-season practice at Brandeis University, where Crowley was a campus police officer.

It's a date Crowley still can recite by rote - and he still recalls the pain he suffered when people back then questioned whether he had done enough to save the black athlete.

"Some people were saying 'There's the guy who killed Reggie Lewis' afterward. I was broken-hearted. I cried for many nights," he said.

Crowley, 42, said he's not a racist, despite how some have cast his actions in the Gates case. "Those who know me know I'm not," he said.

Yesterday, Lewis' widow, Donna Lewis, was floored to learn the embattled father of three on the thin blue line of a national debate on racism in America was the same man so determined to rescue her husband.

"That's incredible," Lewis, 44, exclaimed. "It's an unfortunate situation. Hopefully, it can resolve itself. The most important thing is peace."

Gates, 58, an acclaimed scholar on black history and a PBS documentarian, went on the attack against Crowley on Tuesday, demanding he apologize for arresting him for disorderly conduct last Thursday while investigating a reported break-in at his home. Gates, returning from a trip, was seen by a Malden woman trying to force his front door open. Police alleged he initially refused to identify himself.

Though he harbors no "ill feelings toward the professor," a calm, resolute Crowley said no mea culpa will be forthcoming.

"I just have nothing to apologize for," he said. "It will never happen."

Attorney Charles Ogletree, Gates' close friend and fellow Harvard savant, told the Herald, "It's regrettable and unfortunate that the officer feels that way, and I do hope that some progress will be made in healing this wound."

Gates, who upon his arrest allegedly bellowed to a gathering crowd on Ware Street, "This is what happens to black men in America!" believes he was targeted by Crowley - whom he called a "rogue" cop - because of his race.

Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert Haas, with Gates attorney Walter Prince's consent, agreed Tuesday to drop the charge of disorderly conduct, calling the incident "an unfortunate set of circumstances."

Crowley, an 11-year veteran of the force, oversees the evidence room, paid details and records unit. He also coaches youth basketball, baseball and softball.

Joseph McDonald, a former director of public safety at Brandeis, said Crowley was "a real pro," calling Gates' racial profiling charge "strange."

"You just do the job as a cop. You don't look at the color of skin. You're just trying to help people," said McDonald, 57.

In a statement expressing its "full and unqualified support" for Crowley, the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association called its brother a "highly respected veteran supervisor with a distinguished record.

"His actions at the scene of this matter were consistent with his training, with the informed policies and practices of the department and with applicable legal standards."

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:34 AM

police report

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:31 AM

You can hear about the incident in Crowley's own words here

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 11:28 AM

and from the other side:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/07/23/officer_at_eye_of_storm_says_he_wont_apologize/?page=1


It becomes a whole lot harder to make blanket condemnations when you adtually listen to BOTH sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 11:33 PM

Kent, he wouldn't have been hassled at all probably if he was white. That's why it's profiling. They assumed because he was black he must be guilty. And they meted out a little of their "cop justice" when he had the effrontery to find them contemptible.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 11:11 PM

There is also some more detail coming out about the officer's point of view and HIS opinion about the exact sequence of events. He claims that Gates escalated the situation by refusing to answer certain questions and by making claims about 'racism' as soon as the officer asked him to do certain things.
The officer says that he (the Officer) will never apologize for anything he did or said.

(and all this time, the woman who made the call was standing on the sidewalk, pointing at the house and saying "they're in there!")

My, it does get complicated....and 75% everyone seems to have made up their minds about who was at fault in the matter....

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 10:51 PM

You can read about the incident in Dr. Gates' own words in his webzine The Root

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Kent Davis
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 10:15 PM

I understand Dr. Gates's grievance, but I don't see where racial profiling comes in.

Isn't racial profiling identifying a person as a suspect on the basis of race? No one even alleges that happened in this case.

However wrong the police may have been, they identified Dr. Gates as a suspect based on the fact that the house had been broken into, and on the fact that he was inside the house. Had he been black, white, green, or purple, that made him a suspect.

Sounds like the policeman over-reacted to Dr. Gates's behavior. If so, it was unprofessional. But where is the racial profiling? Gates was not suspected of disorderly conduct because of his race but because, well, because his conduct was disorderly. (Still sounds like a police over-reaction, but "profiling" is not a word that means "over-reaction")

Do we not have enough real racial profiling without mischaracterizing as racial profiling an incident that, however wrong it may have been, was clearly not that?

Kent

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: meself
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 06:12 PM

And on a related subject ... how not to get your ass kicked by the police.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 05:44 PM

" In dealing with police it is wise to show some deference to their position whether they are acting correctly or not."
   Roger in Baltimore

Which reminds ME of the time I was with a group of young, black civil rights workers in Hattiesburg, Miss. in 1964. (voter registration drive) We were walking to a meeting about 8PM...dark outside... when a police car stopped and two officers decided to 'question' us.
One boy said to the group..."Keep walkin', we ain't done nothin'!"...but I had a feeling that was not a good idea. I said, "It's ok...we'll just answer their questions." (Note...I was the only white guy in the group, and had only been in town for 3-4 days, and had NO authority to tell the group to do or not do anything..)...but the cop said, "Yeah...you better talk to us...this heah's an in-ves-ti-gation. We had a lot of Nawthun agitators 'roun heah recently." (I think that's pretty close to an exact quote.)

Well, since we WERE going to a meeting, and were within two blocks of being there, there was not much 'in-ves-ti-gating' they could really do...all they wanted was to hassle us, and look for a reason to do more. After we explained where we were going, they sent us off with a grumpy 'warning' to "stay off the streets".

Now...what I left out was that when the police stopped, a tall, young white guy also got out of the police car, and just stood in the background while we were questioned. When I asked the guys later what he was doing there, they said."You mean you didn't GET that? He's a football player on the high school team! They don't want any more stories about police beating up 'agitators', so this kid tags along, and if there's a need, HE beats you up and the cops explain that 'this helpful citizen came to our aid when these 'trouble-makers' refused to cooperate with the police'."

Of course, that WAS the deep South in a different time...but the point is still there, as Roger points out. Some police are just hoping you'll give them some excuse to 'assert their authority', even if they know it will not come to much.

If Dr. Gates had been alone, and if the cops had not known the neighbor might still be watching, more 'might' have happened.

It all reminds me of the poem used as an epitaph...

"Here lies the body of Henry Gray,
Who died defending his right-of-way.
He was right- dead right- as he sped along,
But he's just as dead as if he'd been dead wrong."

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 05:27 PM

Any police officer who fails to provide his number when requested, or who attempts to conceal it if he is wearing it, is out of line, and has a potentially serious attitude problem that urgently needs to be sorted out.

If it can't be sorted out so that it never happens again, dismissal is the only remaining option.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 05:09 PM

Stephen L Carter The Emperor of Ocean Park

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 05:02 PM

not Stephen Ambrose! can't rememeber his name damn

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 04:49 PM

I always wondered who Stephen Ambrose fashioned his protagonist after. Now I suspect it was Dr. Gates. His twenty seven page CV on the Harvard website is impressive. But he hardly represents most black men I know who have been victims of racial profiling.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 04:34 PM

When I read they were going to "Martha's Vineyard" for a few days rest I became convinced this is more an issue of class than of race. But I hope his responses will enlighten the proletariat about their rights because it ain't gonna change the police.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 04:25 PM

Elzabeth Gates, a journalist at The Daily Beast, interviewed her father about this.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 04:09 PM

Evidently Dr. Gates' vast storehouse of knowledge does not include the following ten things everyone should know in dealing with the police:
ten things to do or not do to level the playing field with cops


He has a bully pulpit on the issue of racial profiling but upon reflection I think he lacks street smarts. I know many, many black men intimately because of the nature of my work. I can confidently say that most of them would not have done anything aggressive such as "demanding badge numbers" and some might even have known not to step outside one's home to avoid arrest. Dr. Gates would teach more individuals something useful by offering up these ten rules, in my opinion.

harpgirl

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 03:46 PM

I really think this issue has two sides. In dealing with police it is wise to show some deference to their position whether they are acting correctly or not. When I was falsely accused by an officer investigating a "hit and run" in our neighborhood, I answered his questions to the best of my ability. I did not invite him into my apartment, but I did step out into the hallway to answer his questions. When asked where I had been at a specific time and on a specific night two months prior, I had no idea. I told the police that I would check with family and friends to see if I could piece my whereabouts together.

When I called later to tell them I had no alibi, I was called to the police station where I was again questioned, was photographed, and was fingerprinted. I was then allowed to leave. End of story. I could have been resistant and accusatory throughout, but I suspect it would have only brought me more trouble.

It is not so important to convince police of their wrong behavior as it is to present that in court, if it comes to court.

The Police Officer obviously could benefit from some training on dealing with citizens who are upset. Refusing to give a badge number is provocative. Since Mr. Gates produced ID and was not carrying a bag of burglary tools or suspected theft items, he should have warrented more respect from the officers.

When disagreement arises between a black person and a white person it is mind reading to call it a racial incident on it's face. It might be, but I can picture the same confrontation occurring between two white people if one suggests the other is wrong and is acting based on unfair assumptions.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 02:49 PM

Yeah, without racial profiling they never would have caught Timothy McVeigh.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 02:46 PM

Excerpts from today's Wash.Post;;;;sounds like they did pick on the wrong guy.../

"I studied the history of racism. I know every incident in the history of racism from slavery to Jim Crow segregation," Gates told The Washington Post on Tuesday in his first interview about the episode. "I haven't even come close to being arrested. I would have said it was impossible."

-----------------

"The charge against him was dropped Tuesday, but Gates said he plans to use the attention and turn his intellectual heft and stature to the issue of racial profiling. He now wants to create a documentary on the criminal justice system, informed by the experience of being arrested not as a famous academic but as an unrecognized black man."

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 12:21 PM

I think that racial profiling is an aberration to society in any country. God knows we have had and still have our share here in the states of it. I am just concerned that when that issue is raised, it is raised by a just cause and not just simply raised out of anger. I will be interested to really see all the facts on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 12:10 PM

I wish I knew if this police officer had any complaints against him before. I have to think right now with the facts that I heard is the police officer was out of line. I don't know if racial profiling had anything at all to do with it or not. I suspect, they investigated a possible break in. An ID was produced, some words were exchanged and both over reacted. Most officers I know would simply have said, very sorry to bother you, just doing my job, have a good evening once the ID was produced and even if the guy was upset would just wave and drive off. However that is small town cops, city can't say, never lived in one except college.

But for some officers I guess they want to prove that you can't get upset with them or something when you already shown there was no robbery going on here. I suspect that officer would have done it to anyone cause he wanted to show he could arrest you if you spoke out at him. I am not sure that race played a part. We all know too well that many times it does but I can't see it here unless there is something I am missing.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 11:48 AM

I could be way off base but I would guess that this is not a racial incident but a class clash. On the one hand you have a guy sitting in his own home, who is used to receiving respect and deference, while at the same time, as he says, he is a guy who has problems hailing a cab. On the other you have a probably young-ish, probably middle or working class guy, all dressed up in his repect uniform, now in charge of a minor incident, with his buddies coming to watch. When this latter guy is right in the middle of his act-like-a-cop performance it is exactly the wrong time for him to receive a verbal lashing from *anyone,* much less an older egghead professor.

Pick your battles sure, and Gates probably has a righteous claim, but you also pick the timing.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 10:54 AM

He said/She said. The end result is a very ugly event highlighting the discrimination that still exists in American society. This is not going away quickly. Nor should it.
This is not the first incident with police and a black Harvard professor. It is racial profiling. And at the very least this officer needs some "re-education". Cop or not, he does not have the right to arrest a man white or black who was legally in his own home even if he does raise his voice at a police officer.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 10:34 AM

Gates may be "loaded with arrogance" or maybe mostly tired from his trip and disgusted at his treatment.   He did have photo ID.   Did the officer try to compare the ID with the angry man in front of him? Did he ask Gates to step into the light so he could do so? He should have--and that should have been an end to it.

Sounds to me Gates has none of the blame in this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: heric
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 12:10 AM

"I regret stepping out on that porch! To my amazement, all these police officers had shown up."

"I asked the officer there, 'Would you give me this man's name and badge number?'" Gates said. "Sgt. Crowley, tapped me on the shoulder and said, 'Thank you for accommodating my earlier request. You are under arrest.'

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/20136545/detail.html

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Bill H //\\
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 11:57 PM

GUEST hg---Exactly!!!   

Bottom line to the incident (and I was not there--obviously) ---two people with issues. Gates may be bright as all get out but is loaded with either arrogance or a sense of entitlement because of racial issues---the cop--I don't know about how bright he is but the arrogance/entitlement (for other reasons) describe him as well. Though, in his defense (the policeman) was answering a call and has to assume it is a legitimate call for assistance.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 10:31 PM

I have high regard for the scholarship of this man. However, he would not have been arrested if he had not stepped outside onto his porch. The police can not come in without being invited and you are always safe from arrest until you step outside the house if you haven't done anything. Since he was yelling at them, I think anyone would have been arrested once they stepped outside.

If you want to yell at them, don't go out on the porch!
My two cents

Subject: RE: BS: Henry Louis Gates arrested - profiling
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 21 Jul 09 - 10:31 PM

A Harvard ID is a photo ID - and it's well recognized by Cambridge police. Since Dr. Gates's house is actually Harvard University property (it's leased from the university), it's a logical form of ID to show.

Even the officer admitted in his report that he believed that Gates was the legal resident. After that, it should have been all over.

Professor Gates was short of breath (he'd been ill), wearing a suit, and walking with a cane. (They took away his cane when they handcuffed him on his front porch.) How tumultuous could he have been?

In any case, the charges have been dropped, and as expected, Dr. Gates is thinking about a lawsuit. More than that, he's thinking about a documentary on racial profiling!

Dan