BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 08:24 AM

Robert West stood as the BNP candidate in yesterday's by election in Norwich after failing to get enough votes in the East Midlands to win a seat in the European Parliament last month.

The 53-year-old, said during campaigning

"We are taking a strong anti-immigration line. And we are against the issue of sovereignty to the European community.
I believe multi-culturalism is unnecessary and evil.

"I want the people of Norwich to follow this line and realise we have not been tough enough on immigration. I do not want anywhere in this country turning into the Middle East.

"This is Britain and I will fight to keep it that way."

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/news/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=News&tBrand=ENOnline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED22%20Jun%202009%2018%3A13%3A41%3A730   
-local news report and photo

He polled 941 votes representing 2.74% of the total votes cast

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 07:31 AM

Well, well.....

Thank you, Fred.

The Christian Council of Britain - Wiki

Taken from there:

>>>Formation and association with the BNP

"Taking its name directly in imitation of the Muslim Council of Britain, the Christian Council of Britain was set up by concerned British Christians of various denominations with assistance from members and supporters of the BNP in April 2006. BNP web editor Steve Blake who runs an IT consultancy registered the URL christiancouncil.org.uk on behalf of the CCB and provided a basic template for the fledgling organisation's website.[4] The Observer reported on April 16, 2006 that Clive Potter, another member of the BNP was to be the president of the CCB.[5] Rev. Robert West, a former Conservative district councillor and a founding member of the Christian Council of Britain defected to the BNP in May 2006.[6]"<<<<


The Christian Council of Britain - their own site


So, is *anyone* allowed to wear a 'dog collar' and call themselves 'Reverend' then?


This programme shows how *easy* it is for people to be taken in...

The 'Loose Women' TV show discussing why the BNP have got their seats. - Youtube


And here is 'The Big Questions' debating the BNPs 'right to be heard' - with guest speakers, including BNP members and Benjamin Zephaniah:

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 07:23 AM

What wiki has to say -

"Taking its name directly in imitation of the Muslim Council of Britain, the Christian Council of Britain was set up by concerned British Christians of various denominations with assistance from members and supporters of the BNP in April 2006.

BNP web editor Steve Blake who runs an IT consultancy registered the URL christiancouncil.org.uk on behalf of the CCB and provided a basic template for the fledgling organisation's website.

The Observer reported on April 16, 2006 that Clive Potter, another member of the BNP was to be the president of the CCB.

Rev. Robert West, a former Conservative district councillor and a founding member of the Christian Council of Britain defected to the BNP in May 2006.

The CCB is opposed to female ordination and leadership and the ordination of gay men.
The Council believes that there is a 'godly importance of race and nation'

The Christian Council of Britain has been criticised by a number of mainstream British Christian organisations who claim that 'Christian belief is incompatible with any political party or philosophy that is based on hatred or treats people as inferior because of their race, beliefs or for any other reason' and argues against the CCB's theological views on separation of races."

A stement from the Methodist church spokesperson

"I am outraged that the BNP and its allies are using Christianity to further their agenda of segregation and division.
I think most Christians will be deeply affronted by this and want to speak out against such misguided extremism. We reaffirm our earlier statements that Christian belief is incompatible with any political party or philosophy that is based on hatred or treats people as inferior because of their race, beliefs or for any other reason

The CCB has claimed that the Bible justifies its support for the BNP's repatriation policy.
But the Revd Ken Howcroft, Coordinating Secretary for Conference and Communication, said "this was a way of interpreting scripture that was used to justify apartheid in South Africa, the banning of mixed-race marriages and the setting up of homelands. The South African Council of Churches condemned this interpretation, and some of the churches that did support this interpretation later formally repented.
In Galatians, Paul writes 'In Christ there is no Jew or Gentile,' and this makes it clear that there is no Christian basis for racial discrimination or separation."

A letter in my local newspaper

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 06:49 AM

Lizzie Cornish. Re Robert West Youtube link.

During his tirade on above, this greaseball introduced the name of The Christian Council of Britain, as though it has some standing in the theological world.

I googled Christian Council of Britain. It's a front for the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Jul 09 - 02:57 AM

Real Ralphie, if you were to become a Mudcat member we could PM you and vice versa, and once we knew that you were you (so to speak) it would avoid the potential ambiguity of the often cloned Facebook identities and the public nature of open posts here.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 09:35 PM

For the record, my 23 Jul 09 - 10:02 AM comment found above was in reference to this post that I wrote:

thread.cfm?threadid=122461&messages=19#2685977 RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Lox
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 09:07 PM

"I would dearly like to see everyone put it behind them and move on."

When the second world war ended, the allied nations who fought against Nazism had exactly the same thought.

Lets leave this great evil behind us.

Sadly, it seems that it has refused to die and as a rsult we have had to learn to be ever vigilant.

Therefore, when the BNP no longer has reps in the european parliament, nor on local government, nor any other support whatsoever, and when Nazi Ideology has been eradicated so that it may no longer contaminate society with its poison, then we will be able to say that we have left it behind us.

Democracy is a precious luxury. It must be participated in to keep itself protected from ideologies that would otherwise cause its disintegration.

So George, in fact you have unwitingly hit the nail n the head.

We would love to put all this talk of the BNP far behind us.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:21 PM

Well, it's an important subject, and Mudcatters have passionate feelings about it. We need to have an ongoing discussion of the BNP.

Still, it just doesn't work to have parallel threads running on the same subject. When I see people post a message in one thread, and then copy-paste the same message into another current thread, I know that there's a bit too much duplication.

But anyhow, let's go back to the discussion of the BNP.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: GUEST,George Davis
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:13 PM

Joe, It's an emotive subject which you handled sensitively. If anyone wants to read about the BNP there is already enough on the web about them, they even have their own website. If anyone wants to use four letter words or call people names head over there.

This site lost it's sparkle over the past few weeks due to BNP threads, I would dearly like to see everyone put it behind them and move on.

Come on, friendship is more important.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 07:54 PM

While the original "Folk Against Facism" thread specifically pertained to folk music, the last folk music post in the old thread, was posted well over a month ago. In the last two weeks, it had denigrated to petty squabbling and sloganeering that had nothing to do with music, so it was moved to the non-music section and then closed when this thread was opened.

When there's more to discuss from a folk music perspective, then would be a good time to start a new thread. Until that happens, this existing BNP thread should suffice. There was no need to start TWO new BNP threads today. So, please use this thread for discussion about the BNP. If you wish to discuss thread closure, please contact me by personal message.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:41 PM

I've had 4 (Yes 4!) PMs to my facebook account today. 2 From Richard Bridge(sic)...Yes I know it's not you Richard!
One from the esteemed George Davies!
And one from Royston Rifleman.
They've obviously all done a lot of digging into my musical history...Shame they got it so wrong...I would have loved to have been a member of Pyewackett...Sadly I was just their occasional sound man!
The Eric logo was the White Horse of Uffington, not Effenham (wherever tha may be!)
I'm so looking forward to the next message from these strange people!
I don't get angry...I just laugh at their stupidity...Open Mouths, insert feet!
Toodle Pip all Ralphie

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:20 PM

Peace, are you sure you have that the right way round?

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Lox
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 05:15 PM

Loving all the comments concerning our pal Mike Geffin and his portly portentous pretensions.


Why has the number of BNP votes gone up ...

... it hasn't ...

.. why has it gone down ...

who cares.

probably because mook goofy is losing his touch with the ladies.

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 04:58 PM

More Robert West (I've dropped the Reverend bit)

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 04:16 PM

I got it now. The 'nation' he's talking about refers to the Scots. Same damned reason the Romans built the wall. My ancestors used to go south to plunder women, kill sheep and rape the men. They never have forgiven us. Buncha sissies.

So, is this 'Reverend' the new Mick Griffith? Inquiring minds . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 04:08 PM

"Forgive me, I haven't listened to the "Reverend's" stuff about Babel"

I wuz just being tongue in cheek there R, :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Royston
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 03:12 PM

Forgive me, I haven't listened to the "Reverend's" stuff about Babel but I wanted to chip in about the reference to him arguing that God made us nations for own good. I infer from this that he argues God determined that we should stay apart for our own good.

You see some Christian theological reasoning argues that the "Babel" incident was God acting to stop a juvenile humanity over-reaching itself by striving for knowledge it had not necessarily earned, or was not ready for. So, some say, "Babel" sent humans into nations and tribes with barriers (at least) of language so that they would have to find a way back to unity and mutual understanding before being entitled to, or earning, the knowledge of the divine that had been the objective of the tower-builders.

So it follows that some Christians believe that the separation of nations and tribes is a human condition which must be overcome in order for enlightenment to occur.

This rings with Islamic beliefs where (to a Muslim) God has said most plainly in the Qur'an that he has made humans into tribes and nations "that you might come to know each other".

All of which flies in the face of Nazi Nick and his fascist friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 02:37 PM

Sory, I forgot to post the Youtube video that goes with the link to Robert West's letter, which I posted above.


Here he is:

Rev. Robert West on Youtube

God Help Us All, eh?

Strangely, they didn't let my 'comment' go on to their page yesterday. I can't think why. ;0)

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 02:37 PM

The BNP people DO seem to have difficulty with their own names.

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 02:33 PM

The "Reverend" Robert West

"Ekklesia, the Christian think-tank has been doing some digging into the status of Robert West.

Jonathan Bartley, writing on Ekklesia's blog, can find no church that will admit that it ordained West, or that he is a member. Bartley does, however, quote the Apostolic Church (that were pointed at previously by the Times as the religious home of West) denying that they have any knowledge of West.

A spokesperson of the Apostolic Church said:
"If he were an active member of the Church his views would not be accepted by the Church and disciplinary action would be undertaken by the Church which strongly distances itself from views such as these."

However, this seems a little disingenous of the Apostolic Church, as West is no longer 'active' in the Apostolic Church.

Robert West was first outed as a BNP member in the famous leak of the BNP membership leak of 2008, where he was clearly listed as an Apostolic Church clergyman.

Contacted by The Times (November 20th, 2008), West was defiant - and still seemingly a clergyman in the Apostolic Church:

"At the Apostolic Church in Holbeach, Lincolnshire, the Rev Robert West was unrepentant.

'I am a member of the BNP since May 2006,' he said. 'That's public knowledge. God has divided the nations for their own good. Every race needs their space. But I get on with the ethnic minorities,' he insisted. 'I love them really.'"

Today the "Reverend" Robert West seems to have no current connection to any Christian denomination apart from the Christian Council of Britain, which he co-founded with the BNP.

Various Christian organisations have denounced the Christian Council of Britain, whilst the BNP's religious tactics have been reported in the Christian press. Back in December 2008, the General Synod of the Church of England voted to ban clergy from joining the BNP.

The thinktank Ekklesia has pointed out that churches need to disassociate themselves from the "Christian nation" rhetoric which the BNP exploits.

A few days ago the Methodist Church has become the first major denomination in the UK to ban all its members from joining the British National Party."

His credentials seem as robust as those of former BNP press spokesman "Dr Phil Edwards" (real name Stuart Russell).

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 02:21 PM

Babel pretty much describes the BNP, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 02:18 PM

This 'Babel Thesis' Sounds uber "Love thy Neighbour" if you ask me? Good Christian stuff then.

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 02:17 PM

Some interesting stuff there Lizzie!

What is this: "Babel thesis of one undifferentiated mass" that I hear speak of?
I want to hear MORE!

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Penny S.
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 01:59 PM

Interesting that Bible based idea - that I first met in an Odinist book, possibly also believing in the making of the earth from a dead giant's bits and pieces.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 01:12 PM

Mick Griffiths is different. Has anyone else noticed he's gained about two and a half stone since he got elected? Must be the beer ya figure?

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 01:09 PM

Well, there are times when personally, I think he deserves far more than an egg coming his way, but...that's just me.

I'm afraid I don't deal very well, or politely, with folks who want to sink the boats of immigrants and let them cling to a life-raft.

I mean...this man, imo, is seriously nuts! But...he's not as nutty as those who've voted for him.


Nick Griffin 'Sinking The Boats' - Youtube

You see, it's all linked up with Dumbing Down, isn't it. People no longer think deeply, or think for themselves, they've become apathetic automatons, who see a 10 second clip and think "Cor, that bloke's talkin' sense, ain't he. I fink we'll vote for 'im, Dolores!"

What fooks me off the most about them, apart from their obvious hatred of anyone who's not 'them'...is that they have the audacity to stand in front of the flag my Dad fought for, a flag that stands for freedom, democracy and fairness.

These scumbags should be flying Hitler's flag, not ours.

And WHO is this twit?

The Reverend Robert West

He's saying that the BNP is pretty much saying what the Bible says, that we should live as 'nations'......

??????????

Gawd, if EVER there was a man who could make God shudder in his shoes, I think this is the man who could do it!

Yeesh!

We are a nation. We are ONE nation, that's the whole point! We're all the same bloomin' species! (apart from Nick Griffin of course, who's one on his own, imho, naturally)

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 01:05 PM

I agree with Crow Sister.

I removed the gloating over the egging of Nick Griffin from the facebook FAF page, because it's not something that we, as a group, would want to be associated with, for all of the reasons cited above.

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 12:33 PM

Lizzie, although I support your intentions and I also see that that particular footage might represent *a proportion* of perhaps rightfully angered rejection of BNP policies, unfortunately IMO it's not the right way to *communicate the threat BNP policies truly imply for this country*.

Because I feel it is neither helpful to democratic process, or indeed increasing broader awareness of the BNP's *true* agenda (as illustrated in the: Nick Griffin teaching the KKK about 'how to sound more nice for the public' speech, link), I will never myself participate in egg-throwing or other similar superficial strategies intended to publicly humiliate (and thus unfortunately effectively MARTYR) BNP representatives or their supporters.

I'd far rather see intelligent breakdown of BNP propeganda. That is what's needed.

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 12:17 PM

Fascism. Fascism. FaScism. Got it.   :0)

Here you go, George...your leader....

"Nazi Scum Off Our Streets" - Youtube

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 10:42 AM

Hey, Crow Sister, NO apology necessary.

The BNP will and do grab anything they think will be useful to them. The one saving grace is that the UK folks are much too smart to fall for their party line. Yes, some will. It's a given that every society has its share of idiots. The fact that the BNP gets any support at all will attest to that. However, the BNP cannot take your music from you. And since y'all ain't gonna let 'em, they will continue to look like the scum they are: liars, thugs, bums and just plain-old-garden-variety Nazis and racists.

It's people like you, CS, who will ensure that they don't win. Their votes are dropping, and so is their popularity. Keep up the good work.

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 10:06 AM

Apologies to non-British members of FaF, and other interested parties (including Azizi & Peace there). I think my last post was clearly in error presuming that FaF was only of interest interest to British folk enthusiasts! A pretty daft oversight on my part, seeing the contributions from non-British members of Mudcat on the prior FaF thread...

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 10:02 AM

I posted my comment before reading Crow Sister's 23 Jul 09 - 09:35 AM post.

In the hope that this thread is not closed, here are the links to FaF pages:

Folk Against Fascism Facebook

Folk Against Fascism MySpace

Folk Against Fascism website (work in progress)

Subject: RE: BS: Folk Against Facism - Part II
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 09:35 AM

I think what is somewhat disappointing about the FaF thread in particular being closed, is that of all three current BNP related discussions, the FaF thread was the ONLY thread which very *specifically pertains to Folk Music*. Yes there was substantial thread drift, but the organisation itself is one for folk enthusiasts wishing to take demonstrate their discomfort at traditional British Folk Music and Arts, being currently targeted by the BNP in particular and utilised for far-right, nationalistic, and racist propaganda.

While some of those across the pond, might think we're creating a big old storm in a teacup about all this, considering the historical precedent for similar strategies by the Nazi's during WWII and the current increase of interest in and apparent support for far-right politics in the UK (especially amid a time of economic trouble), this issue is of current and key importance to British Folk enthusiasts. As such, whatever threads concerning associated topics happen to be current, I'll try to make sure links to FaF sites are present, for any interested parties.

Otherwise there does seem to be something of a deluge of associated threads currently, which is why I can understand Joe's decision to close one (albeit with some chagrin, that it happened to be the only one that was specifically pertinent to this board and its membership).

I expect this thread will be closed, but I hope that if a later thread is initiated with further updates about FaF Folk Musical events, that it will be posted (and indeed permitted to remain) Above the Line, where other music threads are posted, and indeed where most of the relevent British membership tend to congregate.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 09:25 AM

Oh, he'll have plenty of friends then.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:53 AM

If Nick Griffiths is the head of the BNP, is it possible that George Davis is the anal sphincter?

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:43 AM

"Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: GUEST,George Davis - PM
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:38 AM

Because Bruce starts swearing !!"

Cursing, not swearing.

So, 'ow's it, cupcake?

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:41 AM

Hey George: are you the poof wot 'angs with Fairplay?

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:39 AM

"Hello we're not total imbeciles."

Unless you voted BNP, of course.

A large proportion of the vote for Brons came from the major connurbation in the area - Hull, which has to be one of the most racist cities in England.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:39 AM

Because George Davis is a BNP supporter and he hates to see the BNP getting its ass kicked by folks who post here. That's why.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: GUEST,George Davis
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:38 AM

Because Bruce starts swearing !!

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:33 AM

Why?

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: GUEST,George Davis
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 08:24 AM

THREE BNP THREADS IS TOO MUCH, PLEASE CLOSE TWO OF THEM.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Emma B
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 06:58 AM

I'm sorry that the Faf thread was closed as, apart from the usual thread drift, its title did indicate that it was the appropiate place to look for (or post) information about any forth coming concerts, events etc especially for those people not on Facebook or myspace

Unfortunately, as any regular poster to the forum knows, starting another (related) thread is the most likely way of getting the older one closed down :(

Good luck with the Web site

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 06:38 AM

One reason for the increasing electoral success of the BNP has been the rising and open racism of ta large section of the mainstream press which has dripped on an almost weekly basis a bunch of anti immigrant,anti refugee and Islamophobic stories and articles for years.
In addition Labour politicians have also fed the racist feeding frenzy with all kinds of dangerous smears and attacks.
This has allowed the BNP to appear to be tucked in nicely with what passes as mainstream political opinion.
As anti racists we should make no concessions to the thugs of the BNP but also the widespread racism being pumped out by newspapers and politicians alike.
Ifor

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 06:07 AM

Yes, this is the new FaF thread. Joe closed the old one and immediately BNP clones were crowing on FaF.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 04:42 AM

The new FaF thread seems to be Woody Guthries birthday?! ;-)

Eh oh: in any case I'm guessing that *this* is actually the new FaF thread, so here are pertinent links before the other one falls off the board:

FaF Facebook

FaF MySpace

FaF Webpage (work in progress)


Also a cut & paste (begging his indulgence) of one of Roystons most recent posts made near the end of the old one, in response to a previous request for links to proof of some of the stated objections to the BNP:

"Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Royston - PM
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 02:10 PM

fairplay, sorry old chap. You may have a point. Is there another fascist political party in the UK? One that I missed? Because if there is then I will organise against that also.

The BNP is not a normal political party. It aims to use and subvert the democratic process in order to secure power; after which it will enact its inhumane, anti-democratic policies.

Nazi Nick has been caught on camera (or has blatantly bragged to the watching media) that BNP policy is geared at sowing discontent and disaffection amongst poor white folk to whip up racial discord and hatred. His policy is - according to him - to stop talking about the true end-game of BNP policy, until they have secured power or sufficient momentum in public opinion, so that their true agenda is either more "acceptable" or can be implemented forcibly.

PROOF HERE
- Nazi Nick addressing a group of American white-supremacists in New Orleans arranged by the former KKK leader David Duke.

Play the video, listen to Nazi Nick's own words.

"BNP is not about selling out its ideas, which are your ideas too [the KKK]...but we will use the saleable words: 'freedom', 'identity', 'security', 'democracy'...nobody can criticise them, nobody can attack you for those, they are saleable. Perhaps one day, once by being rather more subtle we've got ourselves in a position where we control the British broadcast media...people may change their mind and say 'every last one of them must go'...but if you hold that out as your aim to start with you'll get absolutely nowhere. So instead of talking about racial purity we talk about 'racial identity'"

What say you to that, fairplay?"

As you were guys.. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Royston
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 04:00 AM

And Rig, don't come here claiming your wishful thinking as "Factual" when the election numbers have been posted here in *factual* proof that the number of BNP voters IN A SEAT THEY WON *fell* slightly. The only reason they WON is because their SHARE of the vote increased because the vote for the main parties dropped off the edge of a cliff.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 03:48 AM

No, rig, no party proposes unfettered immigration. I have a good friend who used to sit as a judge (maybe still does) in the immigration appeal tribunal and she used to refuse shedloads of immigration appeals.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Royston
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 03:47 AM

P-l-C

Absolutely spot on mate. Said it before, I'll say it again...

Real Political Parties:

* Start talking sensibly about immigration, how low it actually is and the need for it to continue.

* Build more social housing

* Build more hospitals

* Build more schools

And the BNP will wither away.

Subject: RE: BS: So why has the BNP gained votes?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 03:40 AM

Whilst not voting is clearly better than voting for the BNP, you can't ignore voter apathy as part of the reason for the fact that the fascists have two seats. I'll say it one more time: their vote hasn't gone up, it's gone down. Problem is, people stayed away from the elections in droves, possibly because they don't see the Euro-elections as important, possibly because they don't give a shit and possibly because they swallowed the media-led, populist, anti-politician frenzy the Telegraph started just in time for the elections. Yes, some politicians have their snouts in the trough, but what's new? The Lib Dems don't, particularly, and the Greens certainly don't. People could have voted for them rather than staying on the sofa glued to Big Brother.

There are real issues around which to make a decision about who to vote for rather than the side shows about expenses: Labour's increased health and education spending over the past twelve years (good!) or Labour's dodgy overseas adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan (bad!)... just two examples for starters. On some levels, the Telegraph campaign is just another example of dumbed down celebrity culture where someone's duck island becomes more important that the policies of his party. It's the latter, not the former, that will for better or worse impact on your life...

So by all means withhold you vote, but at least do it for a decent reason. And at least show some enthusiasm and commitment by going to the polling station and spoiling your ballot card rather than passively staying away.