BS: I blame the parents ...

Subject: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: Lox
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 08:04 AM

... or should we ...

What is responsible?

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: kendall
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 08:37 AM

Kids need love and support. If they don't get it at home they will get it on the mean streets.
Throwing money at them is not a substitute for real love.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 08:50 AM

IMHO Parenting in its basic sense is training your children in the way they should behave through life and weaning off to independence..... I believe that children are not being 'fully' trained, independence is being offered too soon and worked towards too quickly and parents are actually failing to teach their children how to be 'responsible' citizens. Many of todays parents have been/are irresponsible themselves and if their children are living by their example what chance do they have of getting it right! There is a lack of respect in Society in general and laws have been watered down to the extent that we see children spitting in the street, riding bicycles up one way streets the wrong way, swearing at the Police, disrespecting teachers etc etc........ Expectations within Society are changing and expectations in the home also..... we should expect more from parents and children... the amount of time they spend together is irrelevant.. it is the quality of the time that is important.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: meself
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 11:46 AM

The article is just silly; those statistics mean nothing. What would be significant would be an examination of the parenting (or lack thereof) of that minority of kids that are getting into serious trouble.

It's always been a small minority of kids that get into serious trouble; whether that minority is any larger or smaller now than it's ever been, I don't know - and that article certainly doesn't tell me. Broad social trends such as how much time parents in general spend with their kids are for the most part irrelevant to the lives of that troublesome and troubled few.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 12:42 PM

Parents do have influence, but other kids potentially have a lot more.

I'm pretty certain that parents today are likely to be keeping much closer tabs in a formal way on their kids than in previous generations. But with both parents, or in many cases the sole reesident parent out working, it's a whole different ball game when it comes to informal contact.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: Midchuck
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 12:46 PM

"Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy."

- "Lazarus Long" (Robert A. Heinlein)

P.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: GUEST,stringsinger
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 03:58 PM

Hillary wrote a worthwhile book called "It Takes a Village".

Parenting should be a major concern of society. Providing good
public education, places for kids to play, outlets that are constructive such as music programs, arts programs in general,
wholesome sports (not the Little League competition or beauty pageants), and an acknowledgement that there are some genetic as
well as social environmental factors that enter in as well.

Gilbran had it right. "Children come through you but you don't own them." (to paraphrase).

Being a parent at one time, I find it fruitless to blame parents
for what might be inevitable and unfortunate circumstances
in the development of a child. Even the best meaning parents can
sometimes raise little sociopaths. Parenting in conjunction with
school teachers, mentors, and those who lead social activites for children is essential. There are no easy solutions because parenting is one of the hardest jobs anyone can have. I know because I've been there.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: Lox
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 08:08 PM

I've heard it said on numerous occasions by numerous people that the problem for young people today is that generally both parents work all say and as a result young people form attachment among themselves within their peer groups that would normall form in the context of the family unit.

Consequently the peer group becomes the famly unit and young people become more susceptible to influence from them while the influence their p[arents exert is comparatively much less.

I am not convinced that young people today are any worse than young people from previous generations - I live opposite a state secondary school and most of the kids are friendly and polite.

I do think that young people today face a much wider and more complex range of pressures than my generation did, largely as a result of advertising, media and poor role models in the public eye, but not just for those reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: 3refs
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 10:07 PM

Positive and negative reinforcement!
I tried to let my kids live vicariously, through me, when it come to "how to fuck up your life"! The one thing that's tough is they(and their buddys)look at me and say "you did all that shit and your still here". Only by the grace of God am I still here!
The toughest part of it all is trying to explain that to them!

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: GUEST,Girochaser
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 07:49 AM

Looking at this thread I can still see the way that I was when I was younger. My father ruled with physical violence and I was still a wee shite. The need for acceptance, in any aspect of life, is what you will find everyone throught out their formative years looking for. If your peer group is a little boistrous then you will undoubtedly be influenced by that group. No matter what is happening at home or the threat of punishment for wrong doing , if you are accepted by those "freinds" then nothing else matters as you fit in with those that understand you, at that age.
Right or wrong thats how I thought and felt the need for acceptance I never felt I had at home.
The pain of a beating will go away but the fear of rejection from your friends is worse.
No generation is worse than the previous ones. It is all relative to the changes in society and what is deemed as acceptable in all aspects of life. The main thing is the accessability of information that anyone can gain now, where as before the internet and the mass media culture that we have spawned nothing was reported on the scale that it is now.
So realy you cant blame the parents for everything their children do, everyone makes conscious decisions from an early age some just have a knack for making the wrong ones often, I was one of those children and even now I will make the wrong choice but now I have to answer to myself
Dylan

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 08:06 AM

Just spending time with and constantly monitoring your children is not the answer.

Really listening to them (without judgement) and letting them know often that you believe in them and their ability to make good decisions about what they do, is key. This combined with letting them take the consequences of poor decisions will build character and help inform future decisions and help them moderate their own behaviour.

Time and energy consuming for the parents, I know, especially if they are insanely pulled into a dozen directions. Work, family, aging parents, extra activities outside school and work take a lot out of adults raising teens. But it is crucial to be that best listener and most forthright believer in a young person.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 08:20 AM

I am thinking about all of the comments made above and I do not really want to comment just yet. Just one thing, which I would like to throw into the pot, is a comment by Johannes Rau, former president of Germany, to the effect that nowadays many children are being raised to be consumers rather than citizens. Indeed a huge amount of money is being invested in advertising to ensure that this happens. The result can be a tendency for children to estimate their worth in terms of what they possess rather than what they can do. I regard this trend as dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 08:28 AM

True alanabit, but still the parent should be helping the child understand his/her value outside of material things, proficiency at some learned thing, even mental acuity. Having more, being smarter, faster, more talented then somebody else does not help a child to be a good person.
Parents should be re-enforcing the child's value simply as an individual, capable of making right decisions and behaving positively. If they do that, then let the advertisers do what they will. The kids will learn to recognise and dismiss the compulsive desire advertisers attempt to instill.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 09:59 AM

I always get uncomfortab;e about the term "quality time", with its implication that what kids need is parents who just occasaionlly drop everything else and for a measured time concentrrate their attention on being with them, and that this makes up for not being there the rest of the time.

I don't mean that it isn't a good thing to do that - but what kids really need as well, and probably need more, I'd say, is "non-quality time", where parents are around and available doing stuff in the background, so to speak.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: 3refs
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 10:38 AM

Just got this from a friend!

TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's, 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's.

First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they were pregnant.
They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes.
Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs covered with bright colored lead-based paints.
We   had no child proof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when   we rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking.
As infants &   children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, booster seats, seat belts or air bags..
Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was always a special treat.
We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle.
We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE actually died from this.
We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank Kool-aid made with sugar, but we weren't overweight because,
WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING!
We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.
No one was able to reach us all day.And we were OK.
We   would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes After running into   the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem.
We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at all,no 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound   or CD's, no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet or chat rooms.......
WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!
We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits from these accidents.
We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.
We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with sticks and tennis balls and although we were told it would happen, we did not poke out very many eyes.
We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just walked in and talked to them!
Little   League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!!
The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!
These generations have produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever!
The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.
We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned HOW TO DEAL WITH IT ALL!
If YOU are one of them CONGRATULATIONS!

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: pdq
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 11:00 AM

"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock ..."
    ~ Orson Welles

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: meself
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 11:01 AM

And then there were the kids who DIDN'T survive 1930's, 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's ... !

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: meself
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 03:20 PM

Or another way of looking at that would be: "What did that produce? 500 years of democracy and peace."

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: GUEST,Girochaser
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 06:10 AM

PDQ, em well I dont know how to put this, but, Mr Wells is wrong on that front as the cuckoo clock is actually a German invention and they have been a bunch of shits.
So peace and prosperity from the Swiss, well done them.
Dylan

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 06:53 AM

What nobody ever seems to think about, is that unruly teenagers don't suddenly appear in a puff of blue smoke, and neither do unruly primary school children. Learning, for a child, begins the moment the eyes focus for the first time, and those first five years see a rate of assimilation of knowledge that will never agin be achieved within a lifetime.

My children knew the meaning of the world's most important word, NO, before they could crawl. It wasn't beaten into them, and neither were they terrified into understanding.

If they did something wrong, they were told "No", and gently restrained. They quickly learned that to try to disobey was fruitless, and stopped trying. Both had reached this stage before their first birthday.

From then on "No" stopped them doing whatever they were doing, even if it was not on their learned list of No-Nos.

The second important step was the banning, in our house, of the awful habit when a small child misbehaves of smiling, and saying "Aww, Isn't that cute"?

No, it isn't cute, it's wrong, and that was always made clear.

Suffice to say they were as mischievous as most kids, but always stopped short of what they recognised as the limits, and if you asked either of them now, they would say they had a wonderful childhood, because we rarely had to exert any discipline.

They are both following the same course with thir kids.

I am dubious about blaming today's parents for not controlling their children's behaviour. They are at a disadvantage by reason of being the children or grandchildren of the trendily undisciplined Dr Spock generation.

I thank God I was old enough to see through that quack, and recognise him for the egregious idiot he was.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 07:21 AM

Some child-sized objects truly appear to be uncontrollable. Sometimes it appears to be despite the parent's or parents' apparent best efforts.

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 04:31 AM

The article says it is 'peer pressure and youth culture'. Seeing as youth culture appears to have been invented by the media and peer pressure gets worse when one is seeing peers doing things in the press I think we can fairly blame the press - and articles like this? :-)

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: I blame the parents ...
From: alanabit
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 09:43 AM

Let us also not overlook the fact that it is silly season. So when there is no news to print, the press simply makes it up.