BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 06:07 PM

Indeed it is.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 08:14 PM

You have fast feet, Little Hawk. :)

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Amos
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 10:54 PM

Wow! Brilliant, insightful, and indefensible!


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: 3refs
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 10:06 AM

I don't think it really matters what your political allegiances might be. How can one watch this entire movie and not believe that at least some of it has to be true. Too many facts, too many figures! Most people know that big business(banks) have been supporting both sides of waring factions for centuries!

Maybe this should have its own thread?

From my cold dead hands!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 10:39 AM

"How can one watch this entire movie and not believe that at least some of it has to be true."

Well...first you can try to grasp the idea that what Obama is trying to do may just be totally at odds with any secret plans of any international 'banking cartels' or other combinations of sinister nastiness.

That's the thing about conspiracy theories...all you have to do is accept ONE premise about them, and suddenly....any 'facts' and 'figures' can be massaged, interpreted and skewed to comport with whatever you 'suspect'. And when someone throws together a slick video with intense graphics, voilá! Proof!

The film is...**PROPANGANDA**.... It is in line with what has been done for the same centuries that "banks have been supporting warring factions"....only now, they have real experts using advanced technology and psychology to link in your mind stuff that may just be unrelated.

No one doubts that financial interests will always try to perpetuate their power, but to just assume that anyone who GETS some authority is de facto in league with them is self-defeating.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: 3refs
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 11:15 AM

So, campaign promises that were made, and then reneged upon, are just propaganda?
The Bilderbergers(also Bohemian Grove)are just a figment of someones imagination?
The White House isn't full of "Wall Streeters"?
Are there "no" facts being presented?
Is it "all" a lie?

I'm not that gullible to believe everything I saw and heard(see or hear). I know history has been re-written many times and one must trust the writers, but which ones? Other than your premises that it's all propaganda, you can find no truths at all?

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: John P
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 12:12 PM

Hey Folks,
I just came into this thread and read the whole thing, except for most of Little Hawk's posts. Guess what? It's an important and interesting discussion that's being, once again, hijacked by LH's self-satisfied, tangential maunderings. Talking about the issues instead of responding to him will keep this conversation vital and on track.

I read in the paper this morning that a Senate committee has taken the money for end-of-life consultations off the table. The subject, they say, is too much of a lightening rod for the opponents of health care reform. The leading Republican on the committee is one of those who are spreading the lies. In other words, the terrorists won.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 12:21 PM

"At the Town Halls, Trivializing Evil

By Michael Gerson
Friday, August 14, 2009

During live television coverage of the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago, novelist Gore Vidal famously called William F. Buckley a "crypto-Nazi." To which Buckley famously replied (in addition to other choice words), "Stop calling me a crypto-Nazi, or I'll sock you in the goddamn face and you'll stay plastered."

Buckley later apologized. He also explained: "Can such men understand the causes of anger in others? Understand the special reverence we need to feel for that which is hateful? I do not believe that anyone thought me a Nazi because Vidal called me one, but I do believe that everyone who heard him call me one without a sense of shock, without experiencing anger, thinks more tolerantly about Nazism than once he did, than even now he should."

In recent weeks, left and right have employed the Vidal tactic. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi accused town-hall protesters of "carrying swastikas," leaving the impression they were proud Nazis -- when, in fact, a few protesters carried signs accusing Barack Obama of having Nazi aims (bad enough). Rep. Brian Baird (D-Wash.) declared the protesters guilty of "Brownshirt tactics." Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) compared America under Obama to Germany in the 1930s. Rush Limbaugh talked of "similarities between the Democrat Party of today and the Nazi Party in Germany."

The accusation is a staple of American T-shirt and bumper-sticker political culture, found too often at liberal antiwar protests and conservative tea parties. Anyone with a black felt pen and the ability to draw a Hitler moustache on a poster can make this witty, trenchant political statement. Michael Moore compared the USA Patriot Act to "Mein Kampf." Al Gore warned of "digital Brownshirts."

This rhetorical strategy is intended to convey intensity of conviction, as in, "I am very, very, very serious, you Nazi jerk." Actually, it is a lazy shortcut to secure an emotional response. Worse than that, it is an argument that puts an end to all argument. What discourse is possible with the spawn of Hitler? And when someone is unjustly accused of Nazi tactics or sympathies, what response can we expect other than Buckley's outrage? Let the head knocking begin.

Worst of all, the Vidal tactic does undermine the "special reverence we need to feel for that which is hateful." Nazism is not a useful symbol for everything that makes us angry, from Iraq to abortion. It is a historical movement, unique in the ambitions of its cruelty. Those who doubt this uniqueness should read Saul Friedlander's "Nazi Germany and the Jews, Vol. 2: The Years of Extermination," which records the Nazi terror with the same meticulousness that the Germans displayed in producing it. Nazism was the "beard game," in which the beards and sidelocks of Jews were pulled off or set afire before audiences of cheering soldiers. It was the practice of making elderly Jews dance around a fire of burning Torah scrolls. It was whole orphanages deported to death camps, and pits full of corpses, and ancient communities erased from human memory, and death factories issuing a thick smoke of souls, and a mother trading her gold ring for a glass of water to give her dying child.

Many who study these events think silence the only appropriate response. "There is nothing," says scholar Lawrence Langer, "to be learned from a baby torn in two or a woman buried live."

But it is our nature to attempt to wrestle meaning from catastrophe. So we draw lessons about the poison of racism, the dangers of blind obedience to authority, the corruption of grand schemes of social purity, the shallowness of civilization in "civilized" nations, and the hatred hiding within ordinary men and women.

These lessons are relevant to politics. But they are trivialized when applied to Obama's health insurance reform plan or the conduct of disorderly town-hall protesters. The burning of the Reichstag and Kristallnacht are not arguments against a single-payer health plan or against the Patriot Act.

For the survivors of Nazism, memory is a kind of sacred duty. The Vidal tactic desacralizes those memories -- shrinking them to the size of our political agendas and robbing them of their power to shock and teach. The history of those times should be approached with fear and trembling, not mocked with metaphor. "

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: bobad
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 12:21 PM

This pretty well sums up the movie for me.

"Propaganda is communication aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda."

Wikipedia

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 12:49 PM

Art Theime,

Dumbing down is the most dangerous and destructive threat facing this nation or any nation.

General Colin Powell was asked in the midst of a discussion on terrorism what he thought was the greatest danger the US over the next 50 years and he said
"inequality of education and a dimished quality of education in the USA is the greatest threat facing this nation."

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: DougR
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 08:00 PM

I have a suggestion for those of you who hate Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, Hannity, etc.

Don't listen to or watch them.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Peace
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 08:02 PM

Hey, they're better than mustard, oil and milk at making me throw up.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 08:09 PM

"I have a suggestion for those of you who hate Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, Hannity, etc.

"Don't listen to or watch them." DougR

The reason we must listen to them - only as we are able to bear it! -, Doug R, is that as long as some people believe the Limbaughs, Becks, Coulters and Hannitys, we must.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 10:35 PM

I have a suggestion for those of you who hate Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, Hannity, etc.

I don't hate 'em Douggie- they are pathalogical, damaged individuals & probably deserve a modicum of pity.

What I DO hate is the lies, hate, and bullshit they foist on the public and especially on the segment of the public that is too ignorant, uninformed, or simply too stupid to know that it IS lies and bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 10:55 PM

I listen to this collection of blowhards (at least as much as my level of disgust can tolerate) so that when someone tries to hand me a load of crap a few days later, I know who their suppliers are. And by then, I've had a chance to ferret out the lies--generally not too difficult a task.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: DougR
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 01:27 AM

Why don't those of you who are so exercised about Limbaugh, etc., just call your local flagelation society and invite a flogger out to your house to administer twenty or so lashes to your back when one of these folks are are on radio or TV? If self flagelation doesn't work, hire somebody to do it for you.

I don't like to see anybody suffer.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: 3refs
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 05:19 AM

"Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, Hannity, etc."
I only recognize 3 of those people. I believe in freedom of speech. I also believe in censorship! I don't think hate, towards one group or another, should be tolerated. Where my own dilemma lies is when we have, what many consider to be a masterpiece, "To Kill A Mockingbird", removed from a High School here in Ontario because "ONE" parent complained. Now I'm quite aware that those were different times. Derogatory terms, language, bigotry and racism was rampant. It's a sad part of history! "I" also have a problem with some of the "entertainment" young kids can get their hands(and ears)on today. I heard a "stat" the other day, and it was said that my generation had wittnessed a few hundred deaths via TV and movies by the time we were 18. Todays kids see about 30,000.

BTW
I'm not overly fond of any of the above!
That's not to say that maybe they might say something I might agree with!

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:10 AM

Yet more incisive, witty reparteé from the in-house comedian.

Amusing? NOT.

And he obviously doesn't mind the suffering of those without access to health insurance.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:53 AM

Figure this out:

Anti-Obama health care ad on TV observes that all Congressmen are automatically covered by health insurance. (Naturally, they have jobs.) Scary voice then says that evil senators like Pelosi and Rangel are trying to push through "a health care plan they don't even want for themselves."

But wait, wait! Then it says,

"So *they'll* still have a better plan than the *rest* of us!"

A sadistic ruling class pushing laws with no point but to make the workers squirm?

I dunno, but it sure don't sound like neocon talk! (Or are they far, far, *far* more devious than we think...?)

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 11:45 AM

That/Those ads sound incoherent. FWIW, it's my understanding that the health insurance available to legislators is good insurance, but that they do pay for it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 12:14 PM

Ebbie, I agree. But "coherence" is not a political requirement. "Fear" is.

The note of doom, the scowling photos of Pelosi and Rangel, the pictures of D-Day and the sympathetic statement that "our seniors have sacrificed enough!" - that's what counts.

Did Tom Hanks die in France so Unconstitutional Obama could turn America into his dreamed-of Canadian-style Nazi slave state??

The answer, I trust, is no.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 12:24 PM

Q. are they far, far, *far* more devious than we think...?

A. Yes.

Depending, of course, on how devious one thinks they are.
(Suggestion: Karl Rove, 'Swiftboat' gang, etc.)

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 12:41 PM

A "Reality Check" on the actual WHite House health policies. Helps to go to the source, no?


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: 3refs
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 01:08 PM

"Canadian-style Nazi slave state??"
As a Canadian, I take exception to that!

We pay for our Health Care in Ontario(OHIP). It's calculated in our income tax returns. Under 20k you pay nothing. 200k and over, you pay $900. We(my family)have additional coverage that costs us another $600 a year. So, it's not free for everyone!

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: DougR
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 03:53 PM

Amos, you are a riot! Again you offer, as arbiters of truth, part of the White House gang, and supporters of your POV. Real objective folks, right?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 04:01 PM

Doug:

If you are going to start a disinformation campaign inciting people to furious states of outrage based on completely false information -- something like Hitler's campaign to re-educate Germany about the Jews, remember?--you should start by finding out what you are defaming and at least do yourself the favor of knowing what you are planning to lie about.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 06:57 PM

...do yourself the favor of knowing what you are planning to lie about.

I don't think Douggie is likely to take you up on this suggestion.

He's always been quite assertively proud that he has no idea what he is lying - oh, excuse me- talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:49 PM

Today while on the phone with a friend, I had an insight that helps me.

I think we all agree that we in the US at the moment are experiencing and dealing with a great deal of anger.

But there is another way to say that: Since anger stems from fear, we in the US at the moment are experiencing a great deal of fear.

So how do we address the fear?

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Peace
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:53 PM

Start out with, "You're going to be OK."

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 11:21 PM

ANd "I can confront this comfortably enough to see it clearly...".



A

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 11:26 PM

The anger that is on display in some of the townhall presentations of the current health reform bill is an ugly thing but thinking of it as fear keeps my own anger down.

I don't know that the best option of health care reform (I wish it were McGrath's 'revolution') is being presented but I do hope we keep on pushing on it. The Clinton administration had to give it up; I hope it won't happen again.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 11:46 PM

The continuous rebuttal of insanity, I hope, will persevere and cool things off. Obama wins this kind of crap, historically, by staying level headed, open to communication, and sticking to the clear truth as much as possible.

A

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Peace
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 11:50 PM

'"Canadian-style Nazi slave state??"'

Where regardless of income, background, religion, language, colour, hair style, ethnicity a person can get medical treatment that's good.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Peace
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 11:51 PM

Did I mention sexual orientation, marital status--or with whom? Some slave state.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 07:36 AM

So how do we address the fear?

Not with facts & truth, apparently. They sure don't seem to work worth a damn with these mindless idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 08:55 AM

"Did Tom Hanks die in France so Unconstitutional Obama could turn America into his dreamed-of Canadian-style Nazi slave state??"

Funniest thing I've read so far today.
BTW, just because someone has a job doesn't mean they have health insurance.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 08:58 AM

Hold on--did Tom Hanks actually get killed in that movie? Must stop walking out of a movie to pee, or maybe hit the 'pause' button.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Mr Happy
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 09:14 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilter

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: 3refs
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 09:56 AM

Yes, Tom died at the bridge where Private Ryan refused to leave his comrades!
Helping to presurve, among other Nations, that Canadian-style Nazi slave state.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: 3refs
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 12:49 PM

preserve

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 01:16 PM

" I don't mind a dicatorship as long as I'm the dictator".....GW Bush

Nazism (an offshoot of a perverted from of socialism) is not kindly disposed to African-American presidents for one thing. For another, many socialists were jailed under Hitler.
He didn't even like atheists.

Nazism, strictly speaking is not Benito Mussolini fascism which is the wedding corporate interests with military ones. Hitler was not wedded to corporate interests with exception of those he could use such as Krupp or I.B. Farben to build ovens. Then there is Volkswagen.

Naziism was not corporate but more grass roots political. So the question remains,
who are the real Nazis in the US today?

The crazies in the healthcare protests don't really know their history very well.

Demonizing is a Republican trick. (Let's pick Hitler). They use it whenever they can to make their non-point.

There is no real debate going on about Healthcare among the "crazies". They like to hear themselves yell. That's it.

Obama, unlike Hitler, is willing to listen to another point of view. These "crazies" are unable to do that.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: John P
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 04:49 PM

DougR,
Obviously we don't need to listen to Limbaugh and company if we don't want to, but given that a large number of our fellow citizens apparently believe Limbaugh is telling the truth, it's a good idea to know what's being said.

I have some questions for you:
Do you listen to Limbaugh and believe/agree with what he says?
Do you think Obama was not born in the United States?
Do you think the Obama administration bears any resemblance to Nazi Germany?
Do you think universal health care is socialism? What about Medicare? What about your local fire department?
Do you think it's appropriate that the richest nation on earth has millions of people who can't afford to go to the doctor?

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 05:06 PM

Joh, you're wasting your time. Of course, its yours to waste as you see fit ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 07:43 PM

Several serious news outlets and an independent agency or two report that Obama's birth certificate is real and they've seen it.

But just last week the supermarket tabloid The Globe called it a fake!

Who, oh who, are we to believe? If only the Weekly World News were still around to tell us!

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 08:22 PM

"Several serious news outlets and an independent agency or two report that Obama's birth certificate is real and they've seen it."

Are these the same ones who supported Bush in invading Iraq?

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 08:48 PM

Hilter(sic)=Obama campaign: is this anything like the Bush=Hitler campaign of just a short while ago? Just thinking out loud.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: TIA
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 08:50 PM

And what is the price of tea in China Bruce?

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Amos
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 08:52 PM

Bruce:

You are being extremely far-fetched to even make such a comparison, amigo. Hold on to your sense of perspective.

Although I admit it is almost as improbable that there would be anything amiss with Obama's birth record as it would be to think the US would launch a premeditated, unilateral invasion of a third-world country on a superficial, unfounded rationale. That's about as far as the similarity goes, though.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 10:09 PM

On the off chance that this will impress someone, somewhere, who can use impressing:

http://www.rightwingnews.com/mt331/2009/06/my_latest_townhall_column_3_re.php

Alternative theory: the notice of Obama's birth in Honolulu in 1961, printed in the Honolulu paper the very next day, was planted there by his parents to enable him to serve as President at some future date should he decide to run and actually be elected.

I chose this website specifically because it describes itself as "right-wing" and has a link to a nonpartisan source. I neither endorse nor dispute any other story on this site.

Subject: RE: BS: The Hilter=Obama campaign
From: Peace
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 10:13 PM

http://www.rightwingnews.com/mt331/2009/06/my_latest_townhall_column_3_re.php