BS: Home Education UK

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: jeddy
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:04 PM

lizzie, sorry for the atrotious spelling.

actually i am all for teaching kids about every aspect of sexual behaviour. that way when some lad wants them to do something, if they decide they do or don't want to, they are much more aware of what is involved.
sex on its own should not be demonized however, it is important that they get the facts and understand the emotional responsablities. by keeping things secret, you are actually making it more exciting.

when younger sister was very young, she asked what a picture of a nipple piercing was, mum passed the buck, edi passed the buck, as soon as i told her it was a picture of a booby, she was happy, said ok and moved on to something completely different and didn't think or ask about it anymore.



i was genralizing about modern families, i know alot of the kids still have parents who devote themselves to raising their children, good on them, there are some however, that see kids as just another thing to tick off their list, but don't want them to change their lives in any way.

i think it may be the kids of these sorts of parents who think having kids is easy.
in order to combat this why do we not have those robot babies in schools? look after one of those for a week and see if you still want one.

sorry i know this is way off the thread title.

i cannot comment on home education as i went to school, i cannot say it was the most wonderful experiance ever, but i did make some wonderful friends, without school i probably would have been very lonely.

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: GUEST,Daisybell
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:51 PM

In all honesty, I didn't respond to this thread to be patronised, I simply wanted to state my point of view.

I know exactly what you're trying to imply, and just because I don't fufill your idea of a chavvy teenage mum having unprotected, underage sex round the back of the bike sheds because school and society has, in some way, 'poisoned' me and made me unable to think for myself, it means I'm some kind of privately educated toff that is completely ignorant to what goes on in 'reality', simply because I'm from a rural area and I'm taking 13 GCSES. It's not uncommon for students that go to decent schools to take that many exams, which I would have thought you'd know seeing as you're so enlightened in this area.

I go to a state school, and I'm still encouraged to try my best by most of my teachers, as are my friends, and even though some of them I'm not exactly chummy with, I don't feel like I'm "bullied" and neither are my classmates. Me and my friends aren't in the minority because we're not on the brink of suicide and carring knives in our g-strings. To put it frankly, I don't understand why you think you'd know better than I do, when I am actually a student, about what goes on in terms of sex, violence and exam pressure in my own school. In some schools, it is pretty bad and there is teenage pregnancy and knife crime, and I acknowledge that I'm lucky that my school isn't like that, however, the majority of schools aren't. Even when these things do happen, this is usually because of the individual and their circumstances, it's not a symptom of modern day culture it doesn't affect every school.

I don't know whether you expect me to apologise because I try hard and I'm not out every night shagging myself into oblivion. I do go out and have a good time, and I also work hard, and it's not that uncommon. As for cervical cancer, girls that weren't sexually active before recieving the cervical cancer jab probably aren't now going to go out intent on having sex as much as possible. If girls weren't having sex before they got the jab, I seriously doubt it was the jab that was holding them back- most 12-13 year old girls were probably quite ignorant as to the dangers of cervical cancer before the jab was offered- I know alot of people in my year were, and we're in year 11. Cheers!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:36 PM

"as for the kids having ore sex nowadays than they ever did, how about instaed of lessening sex edication give them more."

Lordy! Saints Preserve Us, jade..! :0)

There ISN'T anymore that they can know...!!

Did you know that the wonderful Think Tank in Exeter University decided that a new way to avoid teenage pregnancies was for children to learn about Oral and Anal Sex. That way, they could lick, fidget with, fill each other's bums, satisfy their er...cravings...and NOT get pregnant! Yes! Isn't that wonderful!

And...the best part of it, is....it's TRUE! How do I know? I rang Exeter Uni up and spoke to the Department that had been telling this to children....The er....'professor' who'd come up with this highly questionable and decidely dodgy idea wasn't there at the time, but they assured me he wasn't a paedeophile, but someone who was very interested in ensuring that young girls didn't get pregnant...

So, there we have it! Let's go down to the parks and tell our children all about Anal and Oral Sex...Yup, we can sit on the benches with them and discuss it all in detail....even if they don't want to listen, because they'd rather be thinking about getting some bubblegum or a chocolate bar...(although quite what they'd be imagining DOING with it, I dread to think....

Now of course, if you or I actually did that, we'd be hoiked up by The Powers That Be and charged with Highly Dodgy Discussions with Young People, but the teachers are out there having these discussions every day...and believe you me, some of them are VERY unhappy about it.

"families that don't give a toss what their kids are up to, so they look for affection others ways."

Some families don't, that's very, very true...and...unlike Daisy (and the 13 GCSEs) I realise, of course, that you're generalising there....

"the media and advertisers sexualising kids at an ever earlier age...
the playboy stuff for example, WTF were parents thinking buying their young girls the playboy duvet covers, do they not know that playboy is a lads mag?   what message is that sending to kids."

Couldn't agree more, jade. Been there, done that, had the Booby Bratz Dolls (Paedeophiles R Us) conversations with Woolworths Managers and the 'Paedophilia Girls Range' conversatoins with NEXT.
The head buyer in NEXT actually ended up in tears, not because I was raging at her, but because she was now the oldest 'on the board' and the younger ones couldn't see ANYTHING wrong with the clothes they were wanting little girls to wear. She was a Mum, with two daughters, aged 7 and 9...and she'd seen them dancing at a party with their friends, in the most suggestive way. It had scared the shite out of her...

A whole generation (with, obviously, some exceptions, Daisy) who've been 'groomed'....

Worrying, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: jeddy
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:20 PM

not genralizing too much there lizzie, glad to know you have a handle on reality.

as for the kids having ore sex nowadays than they ever did, how about instaed of lessening sex edication give them more.

families that don't give a toss what their kids are up to, so they look for affection others ways.

the media and advertisers sexualising kids at an ever earlier age...
the playboy stuff for example, WTF were parents thinking buying their young girls the playboy duvet covers, do they not know that playboy is a lads mag?   what message is that sending to kids.

daisy,
i will not patronize you. you sound like you have a fantastic school and an even better mum.
you are very lucky, i am glad you are enjoying school. so sound very responsible. good luck with the germany trip and with everything you do in the future.

as for this jab, i am glad it has come at last, it won't make kids think they are anymore protected than before, it won't make them go out and have sex unless they feel ready to.


take care all

jade x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:08 PM

I have read some of Ron Davis' materials. My grand niece suffers from a severe form of autism and since the age of 2 has been receiving daily instruction from specialists both in her home and at school. Davis' successes have been with higher functioning autistics. He himself explains that his process for drawing out a child with autism is threefold:
Individuation
Identity Development
Social Integration

He states:

"If the person cannot experience some form of orientation, then the Facilitator will not continue to work with that person. Without becoming oriented, the individual cannot experience or develop a sense of "self" as distinct from their environment."

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 02:02 PM

Well, yes...it's obvious to me that Einstein was on the Autism Circle...many geniuses are...

"Oh no, they're NOT!"

"Oh YES, they ARE!" :0)


If the 'scientists' decide to start removing the autistic gene...when they get the know how, they'll be removing themselves, to a certain extent...because I'd say that the vast majority of their minds are also on the Autism circle, as are musicians, dancers, songwriters, artists, poets..etc..etc.etc..

What a horrible, bland, beige and boring place this world would be without the rainbows shone down by The Autism Circle...

Yes, I know that often it carries with it deep depression and lack of self belief, but my goodness, what absolute shining stars so many autistic circle people are...

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 01:47 PM

From the same biography:



Some researchers claim to detect in Einstein's childhood a mild manifestation of autism or Asperger's syndrome. Simon Baron-Cohen, the director of the autism research center at Cambridge University, is among those. He writes that autism is associated with a "particularly intense drive to systemize and an unusually low drive to empathize." He also notes that this pattern "explains the 'islets of ability' that people with autism display in subjects like math or music or drawing -- all skills that benefit from systemizing."* I do not find such a long-distance diagnosis to be convincing. Even as a teenager, Einstein made close friends, had passionate relationships, enjoyed collegial discussions, communicated well verbally and could empathize with friends and humanity in general.


Isaacson met, spoke with, interviewed Einstein, his friends and colleagues.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 01:47 PM

Ronald D. Davies is a mathematical genius too. (He wrote 'The Gift of Dyslexia' for those coming late to this thread) He got into terrible trouble at school over this because he ALWAYS knew the answer, in seconds, to the most complicated maths problem, but he couldn't explain how he worked it out.

He couldn't work it out, because he didn't know how he did it, or why his brain worked like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 01:36 PM

From Walter Isaacson's biography of Einstein. He interviewed Einstein about his proble with math:

"One widely held belief about Einstein is that he failed math as a student, an assertion that is made, often accompanied by the phrase "as everyone knows," by scores of books and thousands of websites designed to reassure underachieving students. A Google search of Einstein failed math turns up more than 500,000 references. The allegation even made it into the famous "Ripley's Believe it or Not!" newspaper column.

Alas, Einstein's childhood offers history many savory ironies, but this is not one of them. In 1935, a rabbi in Princeton showed him a clipping of the Ripley's column with the headline "Greatest living mathematician failed in mathematics." Einstein laughed. "I never failed in mathematics," he replied, correctly. "Before I was fifteen I had mastered differential and integral calculus." In primary school, he was at the top of his class and "far above the school requirements" in math. By age 12, his sister recalled, "he already had a predilection for solving complicated problems in applied arithmetic," and he decided to see if he could jump ahead by learning geometry and algebra on his own. His parents bought him the textbooks in advance so that he could master them over summer vacation. Not only did he learn the proofs in the books, he also tackled the new theories by trying to prove them on his own. He even came up on his own with a way to prove the Pythagorean theory. "

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 01:30 PM

Well, well, well....

Daisy...if you had read what I'd said, er....in a little more depth, you'd see that I'd said that for some children school is the best thing to have ever happened to them. Obviously, you are one of those childre, as are your friends.

You would also have read that I said I have, and always have had, the utmost respect for brilliant teachers who care deeply about their children.

OK?

I also said that the cases of cervical cancer, amongst younger girls is on the increase, and that this was due to many of them having sex at a younger and younger age.

Sorry, Daisy, but that's exactly what's going on, because I too have young people for children, as does your Mum, and I can assure you that not everyone is down at the local Sheep Fair picking daisies.

I'm really pleased you're all doing 13 GCSEs and getting A's too. 13 As is some accomplishment, especially when you're obviously not having to study too hard, having loads of time to party and go out.

I bow to you all in respect.

Sorry, but I'm still a little worried, to put it mildly, about the jab for Cervical Cancer being given en masse in our schools at the moment.

I'm also worried about the fact that GPs are aiding and abetting illegal acts by giving out contraception to under 16s without their parents knowledge, but I'm sure you can talk to your Mum about that one, as I'm sure she'll understand.

I did not say that ALL young girls are out there having sex with every Tom, Dick and Sebastien, but I can assure you that some are.

I can also assure you that there are many children out there who are suffering very badly at school and who are not as happy as you and your friends. I am on their side.....You need no-one to fight your corner as you are obviously loving every single moment of your school.

However, perhaps you could explain to me why the teachers themselves, last year, at the Annual Conference in Torquay, stated how worried they now are about so many young people, who are showing signs of much mental stress.

They called for a review of the amount of homework being given out, for SATS tests to be stopped (already stopped in Wales and Scotland I believe)...and for far less stress to be put on the children and the teachers also.

Obviously, you are the best school in England, Daisy, so I'd treasure it even more, if I were you.

Did I criticise working mothers? Don't think so......

I did say that many mothers have no choice BUT to go out to work...and I did say that many parents love to boast about how well 'Little Johnny' is doing, when in actual fact, Little Johnny is often falling apart inside under the weight of 27 GCSEs and 57 A Levels, but hey.....I'm sure you read that part with humour...

I've a friend who works in a nursery...OOPS, sorry...a 'pre-school learning alliance' as they call them now, or used to call them, probably sommat else by now....and at the end of each term they have to do a Report on each child, for the parents...

And who has asked for this to be done?

Why, the parents themselves.

Because that way....altogether now...they can say to one another how well 'Baby Johnny' is doing at his pre-school learning alliance, being able to make plasticine alphabet letters and paint 2+2 in day glo paint.

Once, toddlers were just left to play in the sandpit, play with the soft toys, natter on to each other, have their milk and biccies, sing some songs and generally have a real whale of a time! I know, because I used to help them all do it...and then...The Serious Ones took over, started to turn up to Playschools in suits, with briefcases, and Lesson Plans...

And the world got even weirder...................

Maybe you could do an A level in 'What Went Wrong' ?

I hope you get all your GCSEs, and I hope you get all As if that's what makes you happy, Daisy...but...I'd value you as just as much a Wonderful Person if you had no exams, but were kind, caring and loved life.

Life is not Exams.
You are not Exams.

Never let anyone judge you on Exams alone, because it is the person on the inside that counts far, far more than pieces of paper.

I'll show you how ridiculous it is...My daughter chose to take no exams, yet she is still able to get a job. She learnt because she loves learning, not because she had to take an exam at the end of it.

I am 54, and STILL I have to put down what examinations I took, on application forms. Why?   What the ***** does it matter what I did 35 years ago, for one hour in an examination room?

Until society can learn to let go of that, we ain't going far.


Good luck at school, though, Daisy.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: maeve
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 01:06 PM

Thanks for your post, Guest Daisybell. I am delighted to read your description of your life in England.

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: GUEST,Daisybell
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 01:00 PM

I am a 15 year old girl and I have been reading this thread. Some really horrible things have been said about people like me and my friends, and I don't think the person who has said them really knows very much about what is going on in schools in England right now. Maybe they have read certain headlines and think that they know what's really going on, but even a naive little 15 year old like me knows that newspapers write what they think will sell more papers, and you have to be careful what you believe. We are having our cervical cancer jabs next week at my school. We are all 15 and I will be 16 next month. None of my friends is having sex yet and neither am I. I really resent what this Lizzie Cornish has said about all young girls in England having sex when they are not even teenagers or in their early teens and basically being slags. Do you think that we are not clever enough to be able to make responsible choices? It seems that you think we can't make these choices because we are at schools which are abusing us, and make us want to jump off roofs. I am really really sorry to disappoint you, but we are fine. Yes, school does suck in certain ways because everyone has subjects they don't like and teachers who you don't get on with, and groups of girls who can be bitches (I am at a girl's school, by the way). But isn't that just life? If I didn't go to school I wouldn't see my friends every day. I probably wouldn't even have most of my friends because we all live in different villages in a rural area, and school is what brought us together in the first place. None of us is going crazy because of exams, and we are in our GCSE year. Most of my friends and I are doing 12 or 13 GCSEs, and we are getting mostly As. Yes, our school makes us work hard, but it's a good school, and we still do babysitting, or have weekend jobs, and still have plenty of time to do other things as well. I just got back from waitressing Sunday lunch at the pub in my village. This weekend I also did all my homework, and some of us slept over at our friend's house, and then we went to Sheep Fair yesterday. If I was being driven crazy with the pressure of my exams, would I have time for all of that? My friends and I also go to folk festivals, even though they are not folkies, because I have brought four different friends to folk festivals in the last two years and they love it. So we are not going into town at night and getting off our faces on alcopops or whatever you said. We are going to festivals and ceilidhs!

I also think what you have said about working mothers is rubbish. My mum works, and she is my best friend. She has made loads of sacrifices for me. We moved house so I could go to the school where I am now. Now she works from home, but even if she couldn't do that I would know how lucky I am because I can talk to her about anything. I have friends whose mums stay at home all day, and it doesn't mean they get on better. She is partly paying for me to go to Japan on exchange next year with my school because she thought it would be a good opportunity. Before you start telling me how spoilt I am, I have to earn 1/3 of the money myself. She could not give me these opportunities if she didn't work.

I am sorry if anybody feels so traumatised by school that they feel they can't stay there and I am sure home schooling is fine for those people. But please do not tar the rest of us as knife carrying psychos who are all on the point of mental breakdown, who have to spend every night getting drunk to blot out the pain, because our lives are just not like that. We are perfectly fine. But thanks so much for your concern. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 12:31 PM

Folkiedave, you have described well the method the Zahasky family uses. The family practises a great deal and I remember when Abby (Abigail) used to stand alongside them with a mando or a fiddle in hand and just strike the occasional lick. She still doesn't play on every number but she now has her own little band with kids her own age and they sound good.

Sins, it is an amazing story, in my mind. Linda and Jack started out taking in foster kids and then started adopting some of them. Even now they are an emergency drop for kids of all ages.

Linda admired my mother a great deal- over the years my mother took in more than 30 children, ending up adopting two of them. She had 9 kids of her own and Linda quips that she is just like her grandmother: She had two kids and adopted nine.

How she and her husband do it, I don't quite know. I do know they are very hands on people, spending lots of time with their family and Linda also attends all kinds of conferences and seminars. They also are outdoorsy people- their main away-from-activity over the years has been camping in National and State Parks. In Oregon, where they live, adoptive/foster parents park for free.

Two years ago they bought a large motor home and took the whole family on a three-month tour of America, spending several weeks in the Washington DC area. This was while they were a-waiting the delivery and installation of a custom-built mobile home that would fit all of them. They parked the mobile home on their daughter an son in law's land and Linda often cooks the evening meal at the main house for all of them, including her daughter and son in law..

Linda and Jack's daughter, Jacqui, is cast in the same mold as her mother- and is perhaps even more so. She is a Nurse Practitioner and a midwife as well as teaching nursing in George Fox College.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:50 AM

I'm not the one who first suggested that Einstein was gifted/LD, and the reasons I gave did not first come from me. The only reason I'm even familiar at all with those ideas is because I got them from the people who are experts on people who are gifted/LD.

When I say that learning disabilities are not just behavioral, I'm talking about what they are and how they are experienced. Observed behaviors are a part of the evaluation process (along with other things), and behaviors are the criteria that define them for the purpose of the professionals who work with people who have learning disabilities (and giftedness), but those criteria do not help anyone understand how they are experienced by those who have them. Which was the point I was making previously.

I have come to the conclusion that the person who is so threatened by the idea that Einstein could be gifted/LD really has no background whatever in any aspect of education, or in learning disabilities and giftedness. The things I have been saying, I got from the professionals and experts whose help I sought out when I was advocating for my son in the schools. Anyone for whom these things are totally unknown and unheard of can't possibly have any background whatever in these areas.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 09:56 AM

Ebbie,
That is an amazing story. Fetal alcohol syndrome is an overwhelming disability. To take it on multiple times and succeed even once is incredible.
Has your niece ever written down how she went about it?
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 09:40 AM

Oh f*ck off, you patronising prat.....

And if Joe now decides to ban me from Mudcat, then those words are worth every penny, because you really are a real pain in the arse, Dave.

Well Lizzie if Joe decides to ban you that is his prerogative. I shall certainly not complain. And actually whilst you believe your words are worth a lot, certainly in monetary terms as you have just suggested - they aren't. Unless unlike the rest of us you are getting paid for writing on here. Somehow I doubt it.

You can slag me off all you like Lizzie and frequently have. When you gush over artists I rarely comment. And I rarely comment on your other posts. I only comment when I believe your are writing utter tosh.

If you believe that is patronising, I do wonder how you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 06:23 AM

Garbage science? I guess someone is calling the educators and psychologists who specialize in gifted/learning disabled people, practitioners of "garbage science"

No, I'm calling YOUR reasoning about Einstein garbage, and saying it brings other people's work into undeserved disrepute. (Neither of the links you provided says anything at all in support of your assertion).

Do you really want people given diagnostic labels on so little information as you've been doing with Einstein? You've been saying that the syndromes you've been talking about are organic, probably caused by variations in brain anatomy, and not to be defined behaviourally - and here you are confidently diagnosing them based on no more than anecdotes about behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:38 AM

"But Lizzie quotes it as an example of fine "home education" without really understanding what went on."

Oh f*ck off, you patronising prat.....

And if Joe now decides to ban me from Mudcat, then those words are worth every penny, because you really are a real pain in the arse, Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:35 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Ebbie - PM
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 12:06 AM

Seems to me that the family you quote Ebbie are a great example of home education. They seem from what you say to exemplify the best in home education. Their parents have used their own skills to pass skills onto their children in the home. I call that home education.

Most of the talented young musicians in the folk music world I have met have done it in their spare time whilst at school and I make no judgement of which is these methods is better or worse.

But one thing is for certain, I bet the Alaskan students you talk about practised on a regular and probably frequent basis in a structured environment of starting with the simplest music and moving onto the more complex. Just as the ones who did it in their spare time did.

There are people who play by ear of course and are self-taught - but they all practise and they do it in a structured way. I have never met anyone who could simply pick up an instrument and play it without any musical education and practise whatsoever.

But Lizzie quotes it as an example of fine "home education" without really understanding what went on.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:20 AM

You know Lizzie I do sometimes wonder if you actually read what you write and if what you do on these threads consists of googling for a headline that you think supports your case and posting a link to it.

Did you actually read that article on the rise in cervical cancer that you posted to?

Here is what you wrote:

This week school started injecting it's 14 year old girls with the Cervical Cancer jab...en masse...and my heart died a little bit more, not only because they have no real idea what this jab will do, its side-effects on children so young, but because cervial cancer is so on the increase in youngsters, because they are having sex when their bodies aren't ready for it, let alone their minds...

Here is what the article you linked to actually said:

They noticed that between 1979 and 2003, the incidence of cervical cancer had increased by 1.6% per year. When they examined the data more closely, they found that people aged 15 to 19 were driving that increase, with the rate going up 6.8%, Birch told the Teenage Cancer Trust's fifth international conference in London today.

exactly why that is the case is unclear, she says. Most cases of cervical cancer are caused by the human papilloma virus. [My emphasis, not in the original]

So let's get it clear. The increase is in 15-19 year olds and they don't know the reason why.

The vaccine is being given (by choice - not compulsory) to 12 -13 year olds and it is a preventative, so that if (by 15-19 years of age) they do become sexually active there is preventative in place.

In other words the article you posted a link to supports the case for vaccination. Exactly the opposite of what you intended.

Like I said Lizzie, apart from the facts, every word you wrote was true.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 04:28 AM

"Humph. I wasn't going to go on like that- my point is these were all home schooled. Every single one of the kids in all three of the families are social, well adjusted kids."

Well, I'm glad you did 'go on like that', Ebbie. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 12:56 AM

Ironically, I haven't seen anything so far from the poster who is throwing around terms like "garbage science" that doesn't itself fall into that category.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 12:41 AM

Garbage science? I guess someone is calling the educators and psychologists who specialize in gifted/learning disabled people, practitioners of "garbage science". There's nothing wrong with someone like Einstein being gifted/LD. But the thought sure seems to be threatening to some people.

http://www.slideshare.net/drummosh/twice-exceptional

http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/nrcgt/newsletter/spring98/sprng984.html

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 12:06 AM

My daughter home-schooled her three youngsters - with a twist. By the time they were in third grade she ferried them across town three days a week to a charter school where some of the parents were some of the teaching staff. My daughter has a degree in English and she worked under the supervision of a certificated teacher.

Her kids are now in university and one is finishing her last year in public high school. All of them are doing fine.

My niece and her husband have adopted NINE children, after raising two of their own. Each of them has a greater or lesser degree of fetal alcohol affect. All have been home schooled. The first three (unrelated by blood) are now almost 22 and are doing well. One is working on the streets of Tacoma with homeless children in an organization that is trying to make a difference. One has been traveling abroad for the last couple of years but has now returned to his hometown and plans to be married soon. The last one is having a more difficult time- she wants to be a professional singer and has been taking voice lessons. But now she is pregnant. The biggest problem their family has combated is teaching the children that actions have consequences.

The next three kids are two brothers and a sister- they now range in age from 12 to 15. The last three are two sisters and a brother, ranging in age from 8 to 15. The six are still being home schooled.

My niece attended college for a couple of years but does not have a degree. She however is a bright, energetic, clear-eyed, motivated and loving person.

Here in Juneau, there is a musician family whose children have always home schooled. The older daughter has put off going to university for a year so that they can tour the country as a family band at least one more time, but she is taking online college courses in the meantime.

They are traveling in their revamped greyhound bus from Iowa to Florida performing at festivals and in halls wherever they go. They'll be back in November and then leave for another three month tour in January.

If you should see any advertising about them, you would enjoy hearing them. They are multi-talented and multi-instrumental; even the youngest one, at 11, plays both the fiddle and the mando. All of them sing and the harmonies are wonderful.

The parents, by the way, also home schooled their musical education- Paul plays guitar and mandolin, Melissa the fiddle and violin. They play a lot of bluegrass and a lot of 'folky' songs and old tunes.

This is the Alaska String Band, also known as the Zahasky Family Band. They put on just about the best show I've ever seen - in addition to their singing they have a slideshow going on behind them that is very Alaskan with scenes of Alaska wildlife, marine mammals, mountains and glaciers... These are pictures they took themselves or were given them by friends.

All summer the last few years they have played in Juneau on cruiseships and up on the mountain top in a small theater.

Humph. I wasn't going to go on like that- my point is these were all home schooled. Every single one of the kids in all three of the families are social, well adjusted kids.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 09:03 PM

What if they came up with an effective AIDS vaccine Lizzie? Would it be a bad thing to vaccinate children?

I don't thing it's fair to imply cervical cancer is an STD, by the way. It's about as tasteful as a Helen Keller joke, in fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:45 PM

Lizzie you have disturbed me greatly with some of your wildly inaccurate posts but you have now gone totally OTT

My sister is adopted after her mother died tragically young of cervical cancer!
She did NOT have sex with every Tom Dick or Harry but attitudes like yours might make people believe she did!

'I in 3 of the Nation's children is being vaccinated....bloody scary!

Are you scared that so many of our generation were vaccinated against other killer dieases?
In America some vaccinations are compuslory before a child can be admitted to a public school - but I guess that's simply more fuel for your rants about home schooling being the only 'right' approach

'I expect they'll soon insist that ALL children have it'

What earthly evidence do you have for that?


Well congratulations Lizzie - you have finally suceeded in sickening me so much with impuning the characters of women I have known who have died from this dreadful disease that I'm leaving this thread for the time being.

Have fun!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:28 PM

"It is NOT because cervical cancer is on the increase in youngsters, it is because having the vaccine before they become sexually active will prevent women developing the disease in ADULTHOOD."

Sorry..but one of the reasons that teenage girls are getting cervical cancer (in adulthood, to be pedantic) is because they're having sex with every Tom, Dick and Sebastian when they're young teenagers, in fact, sometimes, before they even reach teenagehood!

Teenage cervical cancer on the increase

Seems to me that the ones who WEREN'T having sex, now will, because they'll be thinking they're protected from getting it now.

Ah well, I guess the liberals will tell me.."Yes, Lizzie, but that's what kids are like these days..."

Pah! We've a nation of kids who've been groomed and I tell you what, the sex education they're getting at school is helping to feed that grooming.

Ho hum...

I in 3 of the Nation's children is being vaccinated....bloody scary!
I expect they'll soon insist that ALL children have it, female ones, that is...and they can give it to them from age 9...


And the beat goes on............

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:07 PM

"'learning difficulties' and 'teaching difficulties'?

Too difficult. "


I think it's an important distinction to recognise which is often overlooked to the detriment of those being taught.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 08:04 PM

Permanent exclusion is absurd. Violence, deliberate disruption of a class, possibly theft - these could be grounds for permanent exclusion.

A cell phone call is not, at least in my opinion.

Like it or not, a cell phone is a critical tool in today's world. Lives (teenage lives) have been saved by them.

The fact that the school is participating in a deception to find a way out of the mess is very disturbing. Your daughter is being taught to find ways around the system - much like too many politicians.

I hope you or your wife will accompany her on Monday and make it clear that although the cell phone call was wrong, you stand by her decision not to forfeit property that was not her own. She will learn from this by observing how you and your wife conduct yourselves. Dignified condescension would be my approach but you do what you have to do, Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:48 PM

'learning difficulties' and 'teaching difficulties'?

Too difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:47 PM

This week school started injecting it's 14 year old girls with the Cervical Cancer jab...en masse...and my heart died a little bit more, not only because they have no real idea what this jab will do, its side-effects on children so young, but because cervial cancer is so on the increase in youngsters, because they are having sex when their bodies aren't ready for it, let alone their minds...

The vaccine is being offered at that age (actually 12/13 year olds) because the girls ARE UNLIKELY TO BE SEXUALLY ACTIVE YET, NOT because they are LIKELY to be having sex - the vaccine will be most effective for girls who are not yet sexually active.

It is NOT because cervical cancer is on the increase in youngsters, it is because having the vaccine before they become sexually active will prevent women developing the disease in ADULTHOOD.

Apart from that everything you wrote was true.

And note, I am not attacking you - but what you write. That's why I quote it in italics.

But take it personally if you feel it helps you.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:40 PM

Always willing to learn, Dave.

Anyway.. speaking of pedantry, how about distinguishing the difference between 'learning difficulties' and 'teaching difficulties'?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:35 PM

From: Smokey. - PM
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:21 PM

Eee........and I thought you could be arsed.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:33 PM

Tug,
What does your daughter think should be done about the cell phone incident? She is the one most affected by it.
Mary

Thanks for the thoughtful question.
sadly, the authorities didn't bother to ask her that. She knows the rules, and knowingly broke them...probably an indication that she doesn't see it as very sensible.She has never even had to go to 'time out' the normal procedure when misbehaviour occurs. She feels she has been badly treated by the manner of her treatment, being called rude in a rather rude way, having other irrelevant issues raised, e.g her shirt was out of her trousers at the time! etc.
   I'm sure that she woulld accept some sort of sanction, but would not betray her friend. The price of this (possibly misguided) loyalty,however, is permanent exclusion....this gives her even less reason to see the rules as reasonable.
The staff also know that it is ridiculous, and are probably hoping for a way out, such that they are conniving with her to bring in an old, broken phone so that justice can be seen to be done.
    What do you think she may be learning from all this?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:21 PM

No Smokey you said it was true, not that you thought it was true.

But I can live with you not knowing the difference so long as you can.

I know the difference, but we can only say what we think.. If you want to offer anything contrary to what I said, there's nothing to stop you, and I'd be genuinely interested to hear it. If I'm wrong, then allow me to learn something rather than indulging in the pointlessness of pedantic one-upmanship. Only I'm allowed to do that :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 07:15 PM

Einstein fits the classic description of Gifted/Learning Disabled. This quote from his sister helps explain it...

"(Albert) never was much good at the 'easy' part of mathematics. To shine, he had to move on to the 'hard' part.' In adult life his mathematical intuition was recognised as extraordinary and he could handle deftly the most difficult of tensor calculus, but it appears that arithmetic calculation continued to be an area of comparative weakness." ~ Maja Einstein"

As an adult he had difficulty keeping track of everyday kinds of information and his wife had to do most of that for him.

And that is conclusively diagnostic for having a congenital brain syndrome?

Has it not occurred to you that presenting garbage science like that simply persuades people that the whole concept of learning disability is about as scientifically based as demoniac possession?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:52 PM

Dave - I think it is, and you presumably think not. I can live with that.

No Smokey you said it was true, not that you thought it was true.

But I can live with you not knowing the difference so long as you can.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:49 PM

Yes Lizzie. They do not interact readily in a group of children.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:47 PM

The HPV vaccination programme

In the UK, girls in year 8 at school (aged 12 to 13) are OFFERED the HPV vaccine

A letter about the vaccine and a CONSENT FORM is sent to the parents of the girl before she has the vaccine.
It is up to her whether she has the vaccine.

according to Cancer Research UK
'This research means that if girls take up the vaccination the programme will prevent at least 7 out of 10 cancers of the cervix and possibly even more in the future'

The vaccine is being offered to girls from the age of 12 because they are unlikely to be sexually active and to have caught HPV.
The research so far has shown that the vaccine works best at preventing HPV infection in younger women who are not yet sexually active.


"It really is pointless, Emma."

So why do I bother?

Well, like Lizzie, I also have a 'passion'
It's A Passion for Truth!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:46 PM

"I'm afraid I can't be arsed, FolkieDave

Or to put in other way - although you said it was true - it wasn't. "


Dave - I think it is, and you presumably think not. I can live with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:43 PM

Lack of social skills?

Oh, come ON, Mary! I've seen more teachers who can't be kind or nice to their pupils than I have the other way round..

My kids will talk to anyone, of any age or background, in a kind, polite and considerate manner.

I have had daft people saying "OH, but HOW do you socialise them?" whilst backing away from us as if we have the Plague...not letting their kids come round for tea in case Little Johnny should get the Home Education bug...

All the home ed children I've met are all fine at social skills.
I'm sure some aren't though, just as I'm sure some IN school aren't either.

Hust cos you go to school doesn't mean you're good at socialising you know.

And nope, I don't answer Emma's questions in the way she demands...'cos I don't do demands.

Of course kids shouldn't take knives to school. Home Ed kids don't ever have to consider that option though, as they don't need to.

Funny though, how Emma can't bring herself to comment on most of the questions I raise, such as why no-one is caring, asking questions etc...or how much better schools would be if all generations mingled and youngsters thought of school as 'theirs'...

Gawd!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:17 PM

Tug,
What does your daughter think should be done about the cell phone incident? She is the one most affected by it.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:16 PM

It really is pointless, Emma. Every question, every different opinion results in tirades, obscenities and name calling.
Frightening to think that this is the "Ideal" taught in home schooling at least in the few cases here.

I repeat my original observation: in all of the home schooled children I have known, the only negative I have seen is a lack of social skills. All were well adjusted, well educated children.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:14 PM

so you DO accept some rules Lizzie - thanks that's all I wanted to know.

Rant on!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:10 PM

Can they bring in knives? No.

Can they bring in phones? Yes.

Why? Because many of them are so frightened, stressed, worried about things that keeping in contact with their Mum or Dad, or best friend, who may be in another school, brings them comfort. Not to be used in lessons, but why not in break times? We live in a mobile phone age...

I hate them, personally.....nowt as wonderful as silence at times...


The sooner children feel that school is 'theirs' too, shared with teachers, older pupils, adults, learning all life through...the better, for all.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:03 PM

so do you think a school should allow pupils to bring in whatever they want now?

Don't worry I won't ask again - I don't really expect a direct answer

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:00 PM

"so Lizzie until your 'golden age' it's ok to bring in knives for example?"


You don't get it, do you?

They're bringing in knives because they don't feel safe. They don't feel safe because they're under way too much pressure and some are so angry that they want to kill not only their teachers, but their fellow pupils as well....

This is because school is NOT theirs! It is not a welcoming place, one that holds out its arms to children and young people, making them feel welcome, appreciated...It's one that wants to lop off their heads if they dare to bring in a mobile phone, then kick them out of the place for good!

School SUCKS!
Education, as it now is, SUCKS!

And if I were a child, particularly at secondary school, I'd be terrified out of my head, and ragingly angry at every bloody adult who sent me there, kept me there and forced me to learn 'stuff' I had absolutely no interest in, whilst punishing me if I didn't do it, or if I dared to use a phone!

Is it normal that kids are doing this 'Slap Happy' stuff, or whatever it's called? No, it's f*cking crazy!

But NO-ONE is asking WHY they're doing it, are they? NO ONE is looking at the bigger picture...because they're all hellbent on making the kids take 10 GCSEs so they can get to No 1 on The League Tables and keep their jobs!   

Quadruple Yeesh!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:47 PM

I would consider a lack of ability to move ahead with needed changes because of parental pressure and lack of money (etc) a kind of inertia (hence my use of the word), but I don't need to quibble about semantics. My point is that as long as the schools are unable to deliver the quality of services that learning disabled students need, home schooling will be a very important option.

I don't really agree that a person can't be educated without an imposed structure. I think that it's very possible for people to learn what they need to learn in the absence of structure. Especially if they have never been turned off to learning by bad experiences in structured environments. People who haven't been ruined by schools understand that there are things they need to learn in order to do the things they want. And such children tend to want to do a lot.

I used some structure when I was home schooling my son, but he had already gone through five years of public schools in the US and I didn't see changing things to being totally non-structured as being the best thing for him. But I definitely wouldn't rule it out if I was home schooling a child right from the start. The most important thing is not structure, but opportunity. Put the opportunities for learning in reach of the child, and the child will naturally take advantage of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:44 PM

so Lizzie until your 'golden age' it's ok to bring in knives for example?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:43 PM

I'm afraid I can't be arsed, FolkieDave

Or to put in other way - although you said it was true - it wasn't.