BS: Are Mothers Undervalued by Society?

Subject: RE: BS: Are Mothers Undervalued by Society?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 10:31 PM

There is so much delicate intuition required to be a mother that it is easy to see how it gets undervalued as the world goes more solidified and money-based rather than cultivating the ability to measure character, virtue, integrity, responsibility and other by products of good raising. These things are less visible and less sought out than they once were, but they are by goddamn every bit as important as they ever were.


Thanks, Mom.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Mothers Undervalued by Society?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 05:36 AM

"As for France I read in another thread how you don't go abroad. Lizzie. Surprising how you know about French family life. May I ask how many French families you know? And whether they represent a cross-section of French society?

What I do suspect is that you are believing what you read in newspapers. I'll whisper it again. What you read in the newspapers is not always true. "



Here we go again....undermine, ridicule..etc.etc.etc...Gawd, how boring does it get!

Er...actually, this may come as a complete shock to you, but I do know people who've not only been to France, but who have houses there too, and all of them talk about the difference in the quality of family life out there. How time is taken to sit round the table, share the meal, talk...be together etc...

I have also read, listened, and watched, books, radio, TV, where many people have said the same thing about the quality of life in France and what a different view they have over there.   

However, I am NOT saying that every single French family is perfect, before you insinuate I am. Just a generalisation...based upon many people, unrelated, telling me the same things....and most of them have been mothers themselves, who are worried senseless about what is going on around their children over here...

A Saturday Night in Cardiff

Booze Britain - 'Situation Normal' in Warrington

Loads more there on that page, Dave. How many videos do you want, how many newspaper reports, how many NHS reports, how many, how many, how many? Look it all up! It's practically bankrupting the NHS! There are WHOLE police and ambulance crews around who are just there for the drunken youngsters! Yeesh!


Yeah, maybe you're right, maybe none of this is really happening, and it's all in 'Lizzie's Imagination'...at least that way you can stick your head back up our arse and pretend that there's nowt wrong with our children, our young people, our families, our mothers...

Are mothers undervalued in society? You bet your sweet bippy they are...and if most of those kids had been raised by loving mothers, who were *allowed* to be mothers, rather than the State and their 'child minders', who knows what a difference it may have made...

Personally, I think you are WAY wrong, Dave..because you just do not want to face up to what is going on, even with those images in front of you...and do NOT tell me that is normal behaviour which has always happened throughout life, because it has NOT. I know, I'm 54, and once, you could walk into ANY city centre at night and only see the very occasional drunk, who wasn't normally even violent...You barely saw a police car or an ambulance either...

Today, we'll be getting a report on anti-social behaviour in Cornwall, on our TVs this evening....

It is happening, Dave...WAKE UP!   

Then wake up to a whole generation of kids who have had their mothers all but taken away from them....


And by the way, I used to walk around the streets of Cardiff of an evening...so I know what they were like..There were certain areas, around the docks that you'd not have gone to, but even they weren't like that...The main city was just fine...like any other city used to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Mothers Undervalued by Society?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 06:18 AM

"do NOT tell me that is normal behaviour which has always happened throughout life, because it has NOT. I know, I'm 54, and once, you could walk into ANY city centre at night and only see the very occasional drunk"

That may be so, and I'm hardly encouraging drunkness, but there's some evidence that the 50's had unusually low levels of drunken behaviour, rather than now being abnormally high. Look at the history of Gin sales, Hogarth's etchings, and so on. It is worth remembering the battles of the mods and rockers as well - golden ages are few and far between.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Mothers Undervalued by Society?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 06:34 AM

Lizzie -I don't do TV with the exception of some sport which I go to the pub to watch - I don't have a TV, and never had had one. I believe it undermines family life. Do you have a TV?

I am not saying it doesn't happen. What I am saying is that that the idea that city streets are full of young people having drunken sex with drunken strangers because their mothers have gone to work is a fatuous link and you have no evidence whatsoever to show the two go together other than your own fertile imagination.

I went out for a meal on Saturday night. The restaurant was full of couples and friends dining together. I was in a pub the other Sunday lunchtime and it was full of families dining together, including my own.

Would you like to guess which was France and which was England?

It is not a case of undermining you. It is a case of asking you to comment on things you actually know and experience yourself or can produce evidence for. Not second-hand stuff that you have seen in the Daily Mail or You Tube.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Mothers Undervalued by Society?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 06:56 AM

And this is the England that you are so proud of. Lizzie?

:D (eG)

Subject: RE: BS: Are Mothers Undervalued by Society?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 09:12 AM

My daughter is now 16. She has friends whose mothers work. She has friends whose mothers have stayed at home. I do not see any marked difference in the behaviour of the girls whose mothers work and the one whose mothers have chosen to stay at home.

There is, however, a difference betwen different friendship groups at her school, and what they get up to. There are kids whose parents take no responsibility for them and let them go out in town every Friday and Saturday night, either condoning or turning a blind eye to the fact that their 16 year old daughters are using fake ID and going into pubs and clubs. The inability or unwillingness to set parameters and boundaries for one's children is not a particular feature of either stay-at-home mothers or working mothers, in my experience: it is down to different approaches to parenting, and some are a lot better than others.

My daughter's group does not socialise in town - they go to each other's houses and hang out. My daughter had her 16th birthday party on Saturday night. 6 of her friends came round. They made sushi and chattered away in the kitchen before going upstairs. At 9 o'clock my partner and I went out for a meal at the village pub. We returned at midnight and I expected to find a bunch of harridans running around my house. Instead, 5 of them were already in bed, and the two who were still awake were watching a DVD on the computer in another bedroom.

Of the 7 girls who were there (including my daughter), two of them have mums who haven't worked. The others have mums who work full or part-time - yes, some even have the dreaded "career". The thing they have in common is parents who set parameters and expect certain standards of behaviour.

From what my daughter tells me, the girls who go out to pubs and clubs are, at her school, the exception rather than the rule.

I can only speak from my own experience, and prefer to judge based on what I see myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Mothers Undervalued by Society?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 03:51 PM

I expected to find a bunch of harridans running around my house. Instead, 5 of them were already in bed, and the two who were still awake were watching a DVD on the computer in another bedroom.

You just can't get the harridans nowadays. Couldn't have been a decoy could it? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Are Mothers Undervalued by Society?
From: Rasener
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 04:03 PM

Did you check out the male statues in the drive when you got home Ruth :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Are Mothers Undervalued by Society?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 04:34 PM

One of the great things about living in a village is that we're not particularly accessible!

Once the boys are old enough to drive, of course...

Subject: RE: BS: Are Mothers Undervalued by Society?
From: Amos
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 11:32 PM

But at bottom, it isn't people who devalue people-- it's societal structures.

Until all people give up hoarding their own brand of victimization, no one will be free of it.



I applaud the last sentence warmly as a great expression of an important truth.

However, it contradicts (or seems to) the first sentence. Societal structures do not exist beyond the sphere of individual agreement. You subscribe before you are impacted by any belief or cultural norm. There is no source which energizes agreements other than individuals subscribing to and echoing those agreements. Taht's what societal structures are.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Are Mothers Undervalued by Society?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 06:18 AM

Ruth, the other thing about living in a village is that, love it or hate it, there will be a number of residents who all know exactly what is going on, where, when, and who was there !!! It has its good side !!!

Personally, and this is from first hand experience, I dont think whether a mother works full-time, part-time or not at all, really has any bearing on a childs behavour.

As I've already posted, my husband and I work full time and always have done. Our son is about as good as any 19year old gap-year lad can be. However, my sister in law, has never worked, her husband earned enough alone to meet all their needs. She has always been there for the children, a total home-maker taking them to school, there when they got home, spending every minute with them. The whole 'stay at home' mom thing. They have three children and it has
to be said compared to our son they are a complete nightmare, speaking back, refusing to help around the home, not saying where they are going. The latest revelation is the oldest she's just about to finish Uni, when I asked her what she would do next she said, 'have a baby'.!! Because you get money of the government and a flat of your own and its easier than going to work !!

So from that you could say that the child with the working parents has turned out better than the children with the stay at home mom. But we know thats just not true. All homes are different, all parents are different, and definitely all children are different.

Are mothers undervalued by society, personally I would say no, ........... but I think anyone can be undervalued, if they allow themselves to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Are Mothers Undervalued by Society?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 07:10 AM

I'm a stay at home mum and I love it but then my children are 2 and a half and 14 months. Paul and I made the decision together that one of us would stay at home to look after the children until they went to school. We felt it was important that we raised our kids and not a child minder or nursery. As I had taken voluntary redundancy just after we had had our first child and Paul is in a well paid and stable job that I would stay at home. When all 3 go to school then I will look at getting a part time job or even going back to uni. If Paul's job situation changes then we will look at things again, maybe he'll stay at home and I'll go back to work full time.

I don't look at being a mum as a job. It's something we chose to do and I love it. My children are well behaved and I enjoy being with them. I even enjoy looking after the house and cooking the meals, baking and cleaning. I wouldn't say I am undervalued at all. Paul always tells me what a great 'job' I am doing and how much appreciates what I do.

I know some mums who stay at home and live off the state and plan on having more children to increase their benefits. Another thread I know, just a personal bugbear of mine.