BS: Is Google getting political ?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: pdq
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 04:19 PM

"[Al] Gore has served as a senior adviser to Mountain View, California-based Google since February 2001, shortly after leaving public office. Google spokesman Jon Murchinson said in an e-mail: 'We have not provided comment on if or how we compensate Mr. Gore in his role as an advisor to Google.'"

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 04:00 PM

Thank you, Katlaughing. That was an interesting thread. It leaves me exercised as to why, and how, the articulate, intelligent, cogent Catspaw of nearly 10 years ago has opted to regress into the 60-year-old foulmouthed adolesecent name-caller of today, who asserts [in italics yet, but I suspect that was becoz he wasn't quite in control of the Mudcat http or whatever it's called] that I must have my head buried in my fucking arse if I don't perceive everything from the perspective of over-here precisely as he does from that of over-there.

Thank you at least, for not, this time round, yourself denouncing what I said as 'fucking crap'. Mind how you go tho: I haven't forgotten you were one of those who once intervened in o·so·lady·laike offended tones in a quarrel I was having on here with a fellow-countryman who fully appreciated the force of the obloquy I chose to apply, which you greatly over-interpreted from a blinkered national perspective.

Happy New Year - Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 03:58 PM

I think maybe Ed posted in the wrong thread.

Some information in Wikipedia.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 03:32 PM

Sorry, EdT, but what is your point? The fact that there are these different sites on the WWW doesn't seem to me to have anything to do with whether or not Google is taking any political stance.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 03:21 PM

...walking disgrace to this respectable forum...

Haven't laughed so hard in ages!

For some useful research on what it was like in the 60s, over here where we were just "wishy-washy hippies," I would refer you all to THIS THREAD. If you read no other postings, be sure to read the ones of Big Mick and Catspaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 02:33 PM

An interesting article on the Sonaran Desert:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091216144145.htm

Scientists Map Speed of Climate Change for Different Ecosystems:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091223133337.htm

Global Warming Likely to Be Amplified by Slow Changes to Earth Systems, Geologists Say
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091220143921.htm

From The German Advisory Council on Global Change:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091121093521.htm

Some Dutch research:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091220174725.htm


New tools from Europe:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091220175504.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 02:23 PM

I don't whether this is another US/UK divide or a generational thing, but this thread is the first time I (a 50-something Brit) have seen this logo described as a "peace symbol". If I were asked to describe a "peace symbol" my first thoughts would be a dove or olive branch - certainly not this. For me this symbol is indelibly associated with CND, which was undoubtedly a political movement.

CND, in the eyes of its opponents, was at best naive in hoping that unilateral disarmament would remove the nuclear threat, and at worst accused of wanting to leave the country open to Soviet invasion. This was not some wishy-washy hippy notion of peace, but a serious political movement which aroused strong opinions on both sides.

Whilst the logo has apparently taken on a new meaning to many, it's original meaning is still widely known, certainly here in the UK. Like it or not, it still has political overtones.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 02:22 PM

No, Ebbie, I'm sorry, but I don't for a second see why I should be expected to 'make allowances' for what is simply ('one-dimensionally', if you choose to regard it so)ill-disguised, aggressive, bullying, foulmouthed ill-breeding, however multidimensional its perpetrator may aspire to be thought. That is the 'dimension' he has elected to present to my regard, so he will have to live with the consequences [not that I imagine he gives any more flying gnats'·pisses for my regard than I do for his, a consideration which occasions me not the remotest distress whatsoever]. Life is too short [especially at my time of it when there can't be that much of it to look forward to, however you may slice it] to be the slightest bit tolerant of, or amused by, such antics. Sorry.

Perhaps, at that, you are looking at me a bit one-dimensionally in this particular regard?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: GUEST,Ebbie, away from home, house/dog sitting
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 01:58 PM

Michael, Spaw doesn't need- and I'm sure, doesn't want defense from me. Let me just add that you are looking at him in a one-dimensional way.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 01:48 PM

I think not, Ebbie. I know his sort — he deludes himself he is a 'character', which is supposed to give him licence for all sorts of unmannerliness which we are all supposed to meet with a merry tee·he·hee or we shall reveal ourselves as lacking in that indispensable attribute, a sense of humour. Well, I couldn't give a gnat's piss if Spaw thinks I have a sense of humour or not: when it comes to people who insult one and then say in a pained tone, "Oh, can't you take a joke then?", my answer is invariably, "No, I have had a SOHectomy when it comes to your sort, so be off with you, you infantile idiot."

Such SOH as I possess is reserved for what I find funny, not what some bully imagines I ought to because he is ill-bred and lacking in any sort of self-control or social sense.

I had thought better of you than to aspire to such self-regarding fatuousness.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: GUEST,Ebbie, away from home, house/dog sitting
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 01:28 PM

And in.

MtheGM, your opinion of Spaw's character and abilities of expression is of no consequence to me. I ignore some of his writing - you could do the same - because of the pearls to be discovered in the rest of his writing. His character is something I aspire to.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 12:54 PM

Ask someone from China if google is political.

Google was instrumental in providing information to the Chinese goverment who then imprisoned numerous people for thier ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Bainbo
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 12:13 PM

Google is a private enterprise and is as entitled as anyone to have, and to express, a point of view, if it wants. If you don't like it, use another search engine.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Smedley
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 06:44 AM

That's about right, M.

But as with that comparison, it matters a great deal *who* is using the term

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 02:31 AM

===In the US, at least, "queer" is a perfectly acceptable, even preferred, term of reference for many homosexuals, both male and female. It was once considered highly insultive, but the homosexual community seems to have adopted it as a way of stripping it of its power. It's members of the straight community who think "queer" is an insult while "gay" is not.===

Very interesting and informative point, for which many thanks, BWL. Perhaps a comparison with groups with names like "Niggaz With Attitude" might not be unacceptable or irrelevant?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 02:14 AM

". Now I'm 60 and I hear that since we didn't all know the "original" meaning we are simply Yankee Doodle noodles...............as MtheGM says."
Well yeah - that comment's out of order. ===

It would have been, Crow Sister - if it had been what I said — which, if you look back, you will find it wasn't quite: quoted 'out of context', as they say; & by whom but that threescore·but·still·stuck·in·early·adolsescent·modes·of·thought·&·expression Catspaw, who hasn't, it appears, even the excuse of alcohol for his pitiful foul-mouthed tirades. I really think you should consider more deeply before paying much mind to what that walking disgrace to this respectable forum might choose to [mis]quote.

Happy New Year, Sister [even if you don't want to be my keeper] -

Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 06:29 PM

Don't worry folks, it's 11:30pm - so I'll be off to bed err in about twenty minutes ... sh ;-)

I did get some lovely cherry brandy off my step-mum-ish tho'

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 06:25 PM

"The line about "remembering the 60's means you weren't there" kinda' pisses me off as well."

Well I wasn't there in the sixties at all. I was a child in the Eighties, and not a protester of course but a *child* for whom those who DID protest were protesting FOR. And as a child of the Eighties, I've always been aware that those women were fighting for ME. That's something I still hold dear, and I'm proud to do so too.

". Now I'm 60 and I hear that since we didn't all know the "original" meaning we are simply Yankee Doodle noodles...............as MtheGM says."

Well yeah - that comment's out of order.
Do I have to explicitly state "I don't personally agree with that thing that he just said", just because we were born on the same land-mass? I'm not my brothers keeper and all that!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 06:23 PM

Catspaw - you don't mean you put these posts of yours up while you are sober?

How pathetic!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 06:15 PM

Take a few drinks for me CS.......Sometimes I wish I still could........Have a great night and a pleasant hangover.......

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 06:11 PM

SORRY I'm being 'Arsey' as they say in the UK, but I'm having a laff - bit drunk and stuff, but I get the point. Lot's of folks used the sign, it meant slightly different things to different people. A pity as far as I'm concerned, but not for others.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 06:05 PM

Anyway's it's Xmas I'm blasted, I'm not up for a fight. And especially not about this shit!

So hugs and strictly non-political 'peace' stuff, till another day folks.. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 05:59 PM

Wooo Spaw - so YOU were PeterC then!

Lighten up man, I don't think anyone was doing anything than remembering..

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 05:20 PM

CS.........In the sixties there was in the US what became known as "The Movement." It had no one leader or no single goal and in fact wasn't really anything besides a concept. What it included were the numerous groups working toward Civil Rights from the NAACP to The Panthers to the Muslims and probably 2 dozen groups in between. There were also the various pacifist groups and of course the anti-war folks, not all pacifists by any means. Then there were the "fuck the government" people who had their own groups like the SDS along with followers from others like Vets against the War or something else. In this mix there was also quite a few anti-nuke people ranging from banning nuclear energy to just banning the bomb. Hope that helps CS!

NOW........Moving On................

So yeah......There were plenty of folks available for protests and everything else including building takeovers and bombings. While none of the objectives of these many groups were completely successful, almost all of them had some degree of success...................and I'd bet that at least 90% of the folks affiliated with "The Movement" owned/wore a Peace symbol. I'd also bet that very few knew the actual origins but that didn't keep it from having a serious meaning to many.

The line about "remembering the 60's means you weren't there" kinda' pisses me off as well. For what they believed when they often wore/showed that Peace sign, some were beaten or otherwise injured, others went to jail, some left the country, many were alienated from family and former friends, and some of them were killed. You don't forget things like that even if we were high, drunk, stoned. or otherwise goofed up. Now I'm 60 and I hear that since we didn't all know the "original" meaning we are simply Yankee Doodle noodles...............as MtheGM says.

If you agree with M on that one then you need to write to Joe Offer RIGHT NOW and tell them the mean Ol' Spaw has personally attacked you when I say, I am amazed you can look so far down your nose when your head is buried so deep in your fuckin' ass!


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 04:13 PM

"From: GUEST,PeterC - PM
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 04:04 PM

This thoroughly pointless thread"

Ahh, did it make you feel all pompous and superior pointing out how pointless this thread (that you have deigned to reduce yourself to responding to) is, or did it make you feel all smutty and dirty and common simply doing so, like the rest of us? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 04:04 PM

This thoroughly pointless thread has missed one essential point about Google. They have geotargetted home pages.

If it was on google.com - peace symbol, non political
If it was on google.co.uk - CND symbol, political statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Marion
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 03:47 PM

Back in the dim mists of my fundamentalist upbringing, I remember being told that what the peace symbol really represented was a cross, upside-down and with its arms broken - i.e., a satanic symbol being passed off as something innocent. Anyone else ever encounter that interpretation?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 03:13 PM

Sorry Don - as you say - firm but fair.

you may have noticed that I have taken the same stance regarding the hijacking of my opinion earlier in the thread

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 03:10 PM

Rafflsebear - Yes I get your meaning.

I agree. In direct response to the OP, I don't believe Google were being intentionally "political" in their use of what has now become internationally adopted as the 'Peace Sign'. CND chose to allow free use of their symbol - it was their choice.

As an aside though I also tend to agree with MtheGM on personally preferring the Dove of Peace as representing the *beauty* of Peace as an humanitarian or even spiritual IDEAL.

I'm afraid the CND logo will never tally with that image for *me*, as it's got far too much of an immediate human history etched into my memory. I was a child during the height of the CND movement - when Maggie and Ronny Raygun were playing cowboys with nuclear missiles.

When I was a kid, my Mums mate was going to take her daughter to Greenham Common Peace Camp to protest against the Cruise Missiles, my Mother thought her mate was daft - but secretly I wished that it was my Mum taking me there. And I'm still deeply impressed by what those women did. Eighteen years of action and vigilance, for a very specific anti-nuclear weapons purpose. So the CND logo will always remain what it was for me. Though of course I do acknowledge that images get co-opted and altered and that unlike me, Google and the rest of the world were not in the UK during the Cold-War ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 02:54 PM

""if you insist on maintaining your lone crusade to turn the clock back then the post by Don T will not be the last abusive one you receive (I predict)""

Thing is Raffles, I dispute that my post was abusive.

When somebody asks me for my opinion, I will render it without rancour.

When he gives his opinion I will treat it with a degree of respect, whether or no I agree with it.

But when somebody arrogantly presumes to include me when telling the world his opinion, I feel that I have the right to take him to task over that presumption.

The abuse was his, when he chose to speak for 50,000,000 strangers, whose opinions he could not possibly predict, and no high and mighty sniffy reaction will make him right.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 02:45 PM

Crow Sister - the differentiation I make between yourself and the 2 Ms is that (if I've got it right) they do not acknowledge the meaning has changed and that therefore the inclusion by Google was political, while you wish that it had not changed but recognise that it has - and I think with that point of view there might be more support

Rafflesbear

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 02:36 PM

"you and Murray are the only people on this thread who are holding this position"

Well, I think that the "position" (is it one?) being held (by three of us maybe ;-) ) so to speak, is simply one that it's rather a shame that such an initially focused and potent (political? Yes I think so!) symbol, has effectively become diminished to a general comfy 'feel good' sign, to stick on anything commercial - lollipops, burgers, greetings cards, you name it...

Anything really *meaningful* will arouse difference of opinion, but it appears that the disarmament logo is now a general diffuse 'nice' thing. No-one can disagree with 'Peace' per-se, but the CND movement were about TAKING SPECIFIC ACTION to secure it. Action which caused great difference of opinion! Like it or loathe it, it was a dynamic image representing dynamic people with a focused purpose, and certainly not amorphous generalised huggyness to be stuck on "Happy Holiday's" cards.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 02:27 PM

Crow Sister, by and large, I don't think that the US ever had a really large "unified" anti-nuclear movement. That is (and all IMHO, of course) the ban-the-bomb people and the anti-reactor Luddites were largely separate. There were certainly exceptions, of course, but I think that most Americans thought (and think) of these as two very different issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 01:55 PM

MtheGM - can you not see that rather than 50,000,000 people lining up behind you to support what you say, you and Murray are the only people on this thread who are holding this position

Look sergeant - all the others are out of step except my Tommy

if you insist on maintaining your lone crusade to turn the clock back then the post by Don T will not be the last abusive one you receive (I predict)

So far those good people from the western side of the pond have maintained relatively good humour in the face of your criticism of their "closed minds" - I put it to you that their minds are no more closed than yours and their argument is no less valid than your own. There are shades of opinion on this as to the current meaning of the symbol and as far as I can see yours is based on "this originally meant CND" while theirs is based on "thanks for telling us but we now believe it is used to mean peace"

If this thread can keep going over such a flimsy debate is it any wonder that there was no agreement at Copenhagen

There are actually much more serious matters on the nuclear debate that we could be discussing rather than 'is the logo grey or dark grey'

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 01:47 PM

I asked this previously - but no-one answered.

Were or are there any equivalent *anti-nuclear* organisations in the US?

CND became most active during the 'cold war' period of proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: GUEST,Ebbie, away from home, house/dog sitting
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 01:40 PM

Peace. And out.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 01:28 PM

"I suspect that 49,900,000 people this side of the pond don't actually give a damn MtheGM."

While I suspect it's meaningless to speak of UK V's US 'interpretations' of the symbol. My guess is that the only people who might "give a damn" about the CND disarmament logo, are people who actually "gave a damn" about the Anti-Nuclear Weapons campaign (for which it was designed) in the first place. And many did give a damn, and spent a great deal of time fighting against that.

Of course not all of the UK gave a damn about nuclear weapons being here, even in the Eighties. And not all of England give a damn about Nukes being here now. In fact many actively *applauded* the UK stationing nuclear bombs here: all in the name of "PEACE" (ha ha) of course - which indeed is a very problematic issue as far as the overall discussion is concerned!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: gnu
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 01:22 PM

Was the turnip too sharp for your tummies?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 01:12 PM

Don T —

This standard-form reply, held in my word-processor memory, is the only response I propose to make to your recent post:—

It is my principle to make no further answer than this to merely abusive posts addressed to me.

No further correspondence will be entered into.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 11:57 AM

""But now you know that 50,000,000 people in this country, and who knows how many more in the rest of Europe, view it differently,""

I suspect that 49,900,000 people this side of the pond don't actually give a damn MtheGM.

I don't recall you asking, nor me giving, permission for you to stand forth representing your views as my own.

You get one opinion only on this forum pal. and I will quite happily supply mine without outside assistance.

This matter is only sightly less important than whether you say "sidewalk" or "pavement", and not worth vilifying a nation to prove a point.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 11:31 AM

Remember, pillage and sack first, then burn!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 11:16 AM

...we're pathetic, dumbass, USAers, and we don't have the ability to think but simply to rape and pillage!

Speak for yourself. I prefer sacking over pillaging.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 10:57 AM

..."All that is correct and right in the world resides in England" ...

hey Spaw, I live in Scotland

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 10:20 AM

Sorry Bee-Dub........you can't be right on that as we're pathetic, dumbass, USAers, and we don't have the ability to think but simply to rape and pillage! All that is correct and right in the world resides in England. All that is ignorant and simpleminded lives here. Give up your quest for discussion as you have no right to an opinion. I now dismiss myself to the Dunce's Corner where I will piss on my head and sing, "God Save the Drag Queens".......................


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 09:41 AM

I mourn the pleasant word 'gay', unusable in its former meaning since pre-empted by an interest-group for their own purposes because they didn't like being called 'queer'....

In the US, at least, "queer" is a perfectly acceptable, even preferred, term of reference for many homosexuals, both male and female. It was once considered highly insultive, but the homosexual community seems to have adopted it as a way of stripping it of its power. It's members of the straight community who think "queer" is an insult while "gay" is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 06:53 AM

Well, this has been an interesting thread IMO.

At the very least, we have all learned something, and Mike's eloquent post above @ 5.17 sums up exactly my stance on the matter.

Maybe now we can let peace reign again on the 'Cat

Oh, and season's greetings to you too 'Spaw, I look forward to crossing swords again in the New Year !

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 05:34 AM

In the interest of peace on Mudcat may I offer this contribution

peace symbol

this displays the controversial symbol together with the dove and an acknowledgement of the origins in CND - what more can anyone ask ?   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 05:22 AM

"I think the languages of both semantics and symbolism are greatly the poorer for these two changes in interpretation."

Yes, me too.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 05:17 AM

Rafflesbear - Just to observe that, just as I mourn the pleasant word 'gay', unusable in its former meaning since pre-empted by an interest-group for their own purposes because they didn't like being called 'queer': with which I entirely sympathise - but no other adjective has quite that overtone of cheerful insouciance that 'gay' used to have, so I think it a pity the language should have lost it —

— so I regret the loss of the traditional, and beautiful,"white Noah's dove" symbol for Peace, in favour of this less meaningful in that context, but once much more meaningful in another, former, exclusively [tho never copyrighted as matter of policy - thank you for that, Crow Sister] for Unilateral-Disarmament-politics, connotation.

I think the languages of both semantics and symbolism are greatly the poorer for these two changes in interpretation.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 04:27 AM

Oops my link to Greenham Common below didn't work - another here: BBC on the Women's Greenham Common Anti-Nukes Peace Camp

Heh, there's even a songbook!

Greenham Common Peace Camp Archive - Including Songbook!