Licensing consultation announced!

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 01:36 PM

John king comments:
The coalition responds to the Form 696 petition. The Lib Dems are reneging on a pre-election promise to ban Form 696 which Don Foster described as 'racist'.

So much for the 'bonfire of bureaucracy' and 'cutting red-tape' for live music events.

That the Lib Dems are renaging once again is not really surprising but it is deeply depressing, especially to those who were misguided enough to vote for them. It was a deal the Lib Dem peers did with the last Labour Govt which gave us the Licensing Act 2003 and now a deal the Lib Dems have done with the Conservatives looks set to leave us with Form 696.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 01:23 PM

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Scrapthe696/
Government response.

Thank you for the above petition.

Form 696 is a risk assessment form which the Metropolitan Police requests promoters and licensees of events to complete and submit 14 days in advance of an event in 21 London Boroughs. Non compliance with this may result in police opposition to event licenses being granted.

As you may be aware, the 696 form has been updated. The original form asked for details of ethnic groups likely to attend the performance, but that version was revised to omit those parameters in December 2008.

In September 2009, the Metropolitan Police announced that venues would no longer be asked for details of the music style. A requirement to provide the telephone number of the performing artist will also be dropped and an independent scrutiny panel will be set up to ensure that the form is not misused.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 09:53 AM

http://www.slough.gov.uk/documents/Licensing2007.pdf

The Licensing Act 2003 repealed the two-in-a-bar rule. Except in Slough.

'Where the Council considers that the type of entertainment to be provided may affect residential amenity, or the character of the areas either directly or indirectly, it will attach conditions specifying the type of entertainment which can be provided under the licence and the maximum number of performers.' - P18 of Slough's Statement of Licensing Policy.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 09:50 AM

http://www.norwich.gov.uk/intranet_docs/corporate/public/committee/reports/2010/Regulatory%20sub/REP_Regulatory_04_Strangers_Caf

John King comments:
Norwich Council bans live music for three tables outside a cafe.

-----------

Interesting wording they use here: No amplified music or live music shall take place on the licensed area.DCMS have told me (in aswer to my pointing out that all recorded music needs to be amplified) that they do not consider recorded music to be amplified music. They appear to be wanting it both ways - as usual and confusing everyone else in the process.

In most circumstances, the mechanisms for the transmission of recorded music are and would remain entirely outside the definition of entertainment facilities.The definition refers to facilities for enabling persons to take part in 'making music' and 'dancing'. It does not otherwise include the playing of recorded music.<< BUT>>
There may nevertheless be circumstances when the making of music involves recorded music. Karaoke might be an example. It is the intention of the Act that the provision of facilties to enable people to take part in (electronically amplified) karaoke is licensable, and it will remain licensable under the current proposals. [Ronnie Bridgett]

Q
Why is a regulatory sub committee under the Highways Act determining whether live music is allowed or not? It was not asked to do this, it was just asked to provide permission for the 3 tables and chairs. >>Recommendation
That members determine the application to place tables and chairs on the highway submitted in respect of the Strangers Café 21 Pottergate Norwich NR2 1DS.<<

ENDS

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 11:47 AM

http://www.merton.gov.uk/working/licensing/premises_licence_register_240910.pdf

John King comments:
The Licensing Act explicitly exempts stand-up comedy from licensing. But that won't stop Licensing Officers at Merton Council from licensing the provision of a microphone for a comedian at Alexandra in Wimbledon. Page 23 of Merton's licensing register.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 07:48 AM

BBPA chief plays down May's tough talk on licensing

6 October, 2010

By James Wilmore

Simmonds says she feels "more comfortable" with the proposed changes to the licensing regime

Trade chief Brigid Simmonds has played down Theresa May's tough talk on licensing, arguing it goes against what Home Office officials are saying in private.

http://www.thepublican.com/story.asp?sectioncode=7&storycode=68105&c=1

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 06:09 AM

Mr Beare added: "We have agreed a firm set of restrictive conditions to the licence which the parish council and ourselves are both happy with.

"We apologise for any undue concern and I would like to reassure residents that we have no intention now or in the future of running large music events at the farm."

Just as well, for that option would now appear to have been removed.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 06:05 AM

http://www.thisissussex.co.uk/crawley/news/people/Farm-promises-festivals/article-2694479-detail/article.html

Farm promises no 'festivals'
A FARM owner has reassured Turners Hill residents that "Glastonbury-style" events will never take place at his venue.

The owner of family run Tulleys Farm, Stuart Beare, has stepped in after the parish council raised concerns over the farm's licence application.

He said he respected the village's concerns and agreed the parish council made some valid points.

He said: "It wasn't our intention to run large music events at the farm, the provision for live music was included to save us applying for a temporary events notice on the odd occasion that we may run a jazz band alongside one of our local food festivals."

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 04:34 AM

http://www.charnwood.gov.uk/pages/licensing_reviews_and_weekly_applications

John King comments:
Charnwood Council disallow a TEN, and cancel an event at Woolden Hill County Primary School.

'8th October 2010, by Mr A J Baker (application refused and returned, as received 29 September 2010, not 10 working days).'

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 12:57 PM

http://www.merton.gov.uk/working/licensing/premises_licence_register_240910.pdf

The following comments from John King:
Jazz is more dangerous than opera and that's a fact. Here's Merton Council graciously permitting jazz performances in Cannizaro Park for two hours, while opera is allowed three hours.

'This will include opera, jazz, pop, and world music, s...uch performances may last 2 hours and opera performances may last 3 hours depending on the production.'

See page 55 of Merton's Licensing Register for Cannizaro Park. Also, page 165 shows bizarre licence conditions for Kings College School which prohibit live music before midday, but authorise provision of facilities for making music after 9:00am. And you're not allowed to dance before 18:00. Why?

Often, when asked why they did something, teenagers quite honestly can't find a reason and reply that they do not know. Possibly it is because they do something for no other reason than it is something they are able to decide. The same would appear to be the case with our local authorities............

I suggest that such things as this, are no longer left for them to decide?

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 05:56 AM

A reminder for you to write and ask your MP to sign EDM 546

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=41503

EDM 546    LIVE PERFORMANCES 19.07.2010
Whittingdale, John

That this House celebrates the cultural value of live performances in enriching and entertaining communities; notes that small venues hosting live performances are the bedrock of the entertainment industry, providing opportunities for artists to begin their careers; is concerned that the implementation of the Licensing Act 2003 has meant that there has been a decline in the number of small venues wishing to put on live performances; and therefore calls on the Government to bring forward proposals for an exemption to the Licensing Act for audiences of 200 to tackle the negative impact with regards to small venues hosting live performances.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 04:03 AM

Licencees get critised for their trangressions - this story shows that we are all only frail human beings - even those employed by Local Authorities to enforce licensing legislation.

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2010/10/02/ex-council-licensing-officer-turned-cocaine-dealer-jailed-97319-273861

Ex council licensing officer turned cocaine dealer jailed
Oct 2 2010.

A FORMER licensing officer with a Midland council who started dealing in cocaine to fund his 'champagne lifestyle' has been jailed for three and a half years.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 06:07 AM

Where in the Licensing Act 2003 does it tell Licensing Authorities which licensable activity can be safely sacrificed, scapegoated, limited and generally misused as a bargaining tool to enable another licensable activity?

It is clear that live music (with all its benefits) is being treated by local authority employees as an expendable bargaining tool to placate those who complain (often not about live music at all) in order to enable alcohol (with all of its problems) to be sold.

Live showings of TV sport, and stand-up comedy, even when music is used, cannot be not misused in this fashion as this is not classed as Regulated Entertainment.

So "screaming and fighting drunkards from the pub late at night" will continue but we can all relax as they will have been deprived of live music.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 06:15 PM

http://www.warwickcourier.co.uk/news/local/late_licence_application_angers_neighbours_of_warwick_pub_1_1374419

Director of the Wild Boar Steve Ridgeway said: "We've got a meeting with the residents tonight (Thursday) to put their fears at rest. These big forms get condensed and I think people were worried we would have karaoke into the early hours, but we won't."

The brewery stated that all doors and windows would be closed when music is playing and there would be notices asking patrons to be quiet when leaving. The pub is due to reopen on October 23.

John King comments:
Scott and Emma Alford, of Woodcote Road, wrote: "We are all concerned about the possibility of loud music"

Scott and Emma needn't worry. All they have to do is write a letter to the council, and live music will be banned.

In his objection Keith Harvey of Lakin Road said: "My children have often been woken by screaming and fighting drunkards from the pub late at night."

They still will, as no doubt the brewery will do a deal with the Licensing Authority's employees that will enable the pub to go on selling alcohol and will sacrifice the live music as a sop to the complainants but at least the screaming, fighting drunkards will be deprived of live music.

So will us all.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 03:19 PM

http://www.newsguardian.co.uk/news/national-news/war_on_health_and_safety_culture_1_1663316

'War' on health and safety culture
Published on Sat Oct 02 16:02:37 BST 2010

Town halls which wrongly ban events and activities on health and safety grounds could face big compensation payouts under plans being considered by the Government.

"Once you start restricting the right of the individual to go to court to complain then you are, in my view, heading for trouble."

Not sure anyone wants to take away the right for the individual to go to court to complain but that course of action is expensive and perhaps it should be? Under Planning, Licensing and Envionmental legislation it is often the case that those complained against need to pay to go to court in order to face complaints that the legislation and those who are paid to enforce it, seems to encourage to be made without needing to go to court and at no cost to the complainant.

It is a paradox that employees of local authorities seem to be motivated to preventitive action by a fear that someone might possibly complain but almost fall over backwards to provide satisfaction to any that do, whether these are valid or representitive. Which of course just encourages the same people to complain even more.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 02:56 PM

http://lic.south-norfolk.gov.uk/protected/wca/publicRegisterLicActPremisesLevel1.jsp

John King comments:
South Norfolk Council's Premises Licence Register is now online and there are FIFTY schools named on it. Some have a premises licence, others have been applying for TENs for regulated entertainment.

Why do the latest DCMS licensing 'statistics' not mention that schools are included in the figures for live music?

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 02:52 PM

Facebook site to save Old Brown Jug from the newly built Travelodge:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=121606114559262&ref=search

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 02:22 AM

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/wreningham_pub_plans_in_the_balance_1_659958?sms_ss=twitter&at_xt=4ca6720faa6a8134,0

Not clear if the plans include live music - but it is doubtful that the plans would be supported by the council (as they are without the houses) if this were the case.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 02:37 PM

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/rbnews/8427801.WANSTEAD__Cafe_owners_amend_entertainment_plans/

Mr Sing-Digpaul, 44, said he has designers over from Italy at the moment drawing up plans to remodel the popular cafe.

He said he has spoken with Mrs Nolan and a licensing officer at Redbridge Police.

Mr Digpaul, of Newbury Park, said: "We've adjusted the times of closing and people seem to be happy with it.

"There's been a considerable amount of adjustment and as far as I'm aware I have put a lot of issues to bed.

"I wanted to accommodate and satisfy the authorities.

"I have made it so you can only drink if you are having food and there will be no dance floor.

"I have minimised the live music down to 18 occasions a year."

He said he hopes the changes help the application to gain approval as he is keen to keep the business open for longer.

He added: "We can't be accused of not trying to reassure and not being accommodating.

I suspect that even limiting live music to 18 time per year will still not satisfy some people.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 02:11 PM

http://www.thepublican.com/story.asp?sectioncode=7&storycode=68059&c=1

The myth of 24hr drinking

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 01:40 PM

http://www.gethampshire.co.uk/news/s/2079322_pub_under_review_after_noise_complaints

Pub under review after noise complaints.

Mr Betts said the majority of the noise complaints had come from the Friday night discos, which have now been stopped.

"We just want to get the message across to all the residents that we are doing everything we can to control the noise," he added.

Noise is from recorded disco music but you can bet that further restrictions will be placed on live music or it will end.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 02:10 AM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1316267/British-booze-licences-hit-record-high-traditional-pubs-suffer-shutdowns.html

Booze licences hit record high: 166,000 venues can now sell alcohol while 30 traditional pubs shut down each week
By James Slack
Last updated at 12:36 AM on 30th September 2010

John King comments:
The Daily Mail didn't understand the report. But perhaps they weren't meant to.

The number of 202,000 includes schools, hospitals etc (which DCMS conveniently forgot to mention as it bulks up the live music stats) but in any case is not the number of premises licensed to sell alcohol.

The report actually shows that there are 182,800 of premises with alcohol authorisation, an increase of about 1%. This number is questionable though.

At peak, 53 pubs were closing every week, so hundreds possibly thousands of these premises are actually closed at the moment. Licensing Authorities do not record whether a premises is in fact open on their licensing registers.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 11:56 AM

http://www.musicweek.com/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=1042731&c=1

15:34 | Wednesday September 29, 2010
By Robert Ashton

New Government figures suggest bands have more venues to showcase their talents after publishing statistics that show the number of licenced premises with provision to stage music has increased slightly over the last year to nearly 86,000 venues.

The DCMS National Statistics Bulletin on Alcohol, Entertainment and Late Night Refreshment Licensing states the number of outlets with live music was 85,900 in 2010, up 2% on the 84,500 premises in 2009.

However, the figures for England and Wales April 2009-March 2010, also suggest that the number of club premises with provision for putting on live music fell slightly by 1% making 96,700 live music licences in total.

However, the new report is careful to point out that the 1% increase in live music provision does not necessarily mean an increase in the amount of live music being put on.

The number of Temporary Event Notices, often used by small promoters to stage one off musical events, also increased: by 2% from 122,100 to 124, 400 by March 2010.

John King comments:
New Government, same old DCMS 'statistics'.

Last year's statistical bulletin was rightly described as "Alice in Wonderland" statistics by then shadow minister Ed Vaizey. Yet, here were are 12 months on - same report, same conclusion and the same basic errors.

Try this one for starters: The report shows that the number of premises licences has increased by 4,000 since last year. How can this be possible if scores of pubs are closing every week?

Clearly, the increase in premises licences (and live music licences) is caused by Local Authorities licensing public spaces (as they have been instructed to do by DCMS), and an ever increasing number of schools.

There is NO evidence to suggest that there are more performances of live music.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 11:48 AM

http://www.thepublican.com/story.asp?sectioncode=7&storycode=68044&c=1

Home Office 'looking carefully' at trade's licensing fears

29 September, 2010
By James Wilmore

BBPA chief says officials are listening to industry's concerns.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 11:31 AM

http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/news/BROWNED/article-2693539-detail/article.html

Another live music pub under threat - this time from a Travelodge.

BUDGET hotel chain Travelodge wants a town centre pub to stop playing live music until the early hours, because its customers cannot get to sleep.

Travelodge opened its £3 million, 82-bedroom hotel on Newcastle's Georgia Pacific site in June.

But within three weeks Travelodge officials had complained about late-night noise coming from the Old Brown Jug's pub and beer garden.

Now the hotel chain is demanding a review of the pub's premises licence by Newcastle Borough Council.

Newcastle historian Mervyn Edwards said: "The Old Brown Jug is an established pub with an established name in live music."

Newcastle MP Paul Farrelly added: "It's bad enough to have such an ugly design of a hotel in such a historic town centre, but for Travelodge to complain about a staple of Newcastle life really takes the biscuit."

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 11:24 AM

http://www.stalbansreview.co.uk/news/8420766.City_centre_restaurant_withdraws_licensing_hearing_appeal/

A CITY centre restaurant's appeal against the district council's decision to suspend its licence has been withdrawn.

Buon Amici will no longer be able to provide live music as the council considered that this contributed to the noise nuisance for neighbours.

The restaurant has been closed since September 20, while these changes were being put in place, and is due to open on Monday, October 4.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 11:17 AM

The following from Hamish Birchall

Five years since the Licensing Act came into force, and no sign of a let up for live music.

Earlier this year the government revealed in answers to questions from Lord Colwyn that only about 25% of bars and restaurants could lawfully host live music (because they don't have authorisation for 'entertainment facilities'):
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld/ldtoday/writtens/23082010.htm#toptop

But many councils still treat the minority of venues where live music is legal as potential sources of mayhem, crime and disorder. Consider this premises licence condition for a venue in Brent:

'... Live bands and solo musicians may not perform on the premises unless 14 days written notice is provided to the police licensing officer and the police licensing officer have given his/her prior written approval for the performance to take place...'
http://democracy.brent.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?MId=1224

Or this criminal prosecution of a pub by Dacorum Borough Council for not having their windows closed while jazz was being played:
http://www.citylocal.co.uk/HemelHempstead/news-in-HemelHempstead/councils-successful-licensing-prosecution-60673/

These are just two of many examples reported by campaigner John King on The Publican's 'Listen Up!' Facebook page - where the pub trade campaigns for more live music:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=141223114767&ref=ts#!/group.php?gid=141223114767&v=wall&ref=ts

The impression is that councils and nimby local residents would rather promote the sale of alcohol than the playing of innocuous live music. And that is indeed what happened to a Dorset Tea house earlier this month:
http://www.thisisdorset.net/news/tidnews/8402256.Forest_Tea_House_can_sell_alcohol/

The irony is that the social and economic cost of alcohol abuse to local authorities and the police must exceed by several orders of magnitude the cost of occasional noise nuisance enforcement against live music.

For a new and up-to-date investigation into the shrinking infrastructure for live music as a consequence of entertainment licensing, see the 'Three Rivers Case Study' link on the Live Music Forum website: www.livemusicforum.co.uk

It would seem that none of the area's 34 restaurants can legally host live music.

ENDS

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 04:43 AM

http://www.coventry.gov.uk/ccm/cms-service/stream/asset/?asset_id=35773042

John King comments:
Local Authorities are again drafting their new Statements of Licensing Policy. Coventry Council's Licensing Officers have had an idea: 'The objective of preventing crime and disorder will include the Licensing Authority taking appropriate decisions and/or imposing appropriate conditions, upon a representation being received containing evidence that a licensed premise has a music policy which might incite violence, crime or disorder or the threat of such against minority groups.'

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 09:52 AM

http://www.oldham.gov.uk/print/search_agendas.htm?docrefno=10040034

John King comments:
Oldham Council like to tell licensed premises exactly what music they are allowed to play:

'The premises shall operate a music policy. Between 02:00 - 03:00 popular chart music shall be played and between 03:00 - 04:00 softer and quieter music will be ...played to assist with the winding down period'

Any other kind of music would be a criminal offence.

Details like this are business matters for the licensee to decide in the first place and for the customers to decide whether such a policy suits them. If such details do not suit, the customers can go elsewhere. In this case they may do this and the licensee can do is watch their business go down the drain. I would not go near a place with all these licensing conditions.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 04:13 AM

From the Statutory S182 Guidance to the Licensing Act 2003.

3.23 Stand-up comedy is not regulated entertainment and musical accompaniment incidental to the main performance would not make it a licensable activity.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 04:07 AM

The stand-up comedy performance (even with music) in this same club has no such conditions as this is totally free from the Licensing Act's requirement of additional licensing permission............

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 03:58 AM

http://democracy.brent.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?MId=1224

John King comments:
If you think Form 696 is bad, here's Brent Council going one step beyond what should be acceptable in a civilised society...

Dicey Reilly's had this condition added to their premises licence:
...
'The premises shall operate only as a Cabaret / Comedy / Live Entertainments venue and alcohol may only be served to customers present at the premises to attend such a performance.
Live bands and solo musicians may not perform on the premises unless 14 days written notice is provided to the police licensing officer and the police licensing officer have given his/her prior written approval for the performance to take place.'

So it will be a breach of the council imposed licensing conditions for a non-amplified solo musician to play without the prior written approval of the police licensing officer!!!

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 03:48 PM

Don't bank on it, we once had a pig farm in the country which was surrounded by houses and then closed because of the offensive smell. Residents refused to pay their rates till the council sorted out the smell, the hassle caused us to give up, the buildings were wrecked by yobs and the land is a fly tippers heaven. (we rented the land from the council)

We kept pigs too but then we lived a long way from anyone who may have complained. You have my sympathy but I still think the general principle should apply. We have one life and all have to try to get on with our thing whilst hopefully respecting the fact that others have to try to get on with their's.

A complaint from a new resident about the normal functions of a long established establishment should perhaps be given less weight than one from an established resident about a newer function. Many of the complaints reported in this thread are about the fact that a long-established pub is simply trying to be a pub, or a school is trying to be a school.

Some sort of common sense is going to have be shown if live music is not going to be prevented entirely, as now a single resident who is set on preventing many others from enjoying their thing can complain under planning, licensing and under environmental legislation. Sadly many council employees seem equally set on the impossible task of reducing the number of complaints, (even when this is not a licensing objective). When to do this is by acting on every complaint (whether it is valid or not), only encourages everyone and their cat to complain about everything.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: stallion
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 01:43 PM

"People who move to live near a farm, do so aware of the problems associated with an activity which has taken place on that site, often for hundreds of years. Is it suggested that farms stop operating because these new neighbours object to the normal processes? "

Don't bank on it, we once had a pig farm in the country which was surrounded by houses and then closed because of the offensive smell. Residents refused to pay their rates till the council sorted out the smell, the hassle caused us to give up, the buildings were wrecked by yobs and the land is a fly tippers heaven. (we rented the land from the council)

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 01:35 PM

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8411523.Brighton_pub_boss_fined___2_000/

After the hearing Mr McGrory said: "We take the noise hugely seriously and have done everything the council has advised us to do and more."

John King comments:
Two complaints lead to a £1,855 fine.

A member of staff was dismissed for breaching a premise licence condition by leaving a window open when music is playing. What is more important to Brighton & Hove Council: 'distress' caused to neighbours who move next to a pub - or distress caused to people who lose their job (or business)?

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 06:30 AM

http://www.culture.gov.uk/news/news_stories/7445.aspx

John King comments:
One of the review's objectives is 'how best to offer quality live music experiences to all young people'.

In many areas it is no longer possible for school leavers to find full-time work in live music due to licensing restrictions. For example, in Three Rivers, only ...17% of the council's 188 licensed premises have any live music authorisation.

Live music is prohibited in ALL restaurants, shops and public spaces, and in the remaining handful of premises with live music authorisation, there are further bans on amplification, the regularity of live music events, and in one case even a ban on under 18s listening to live music.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 04:59 AM

This is not an excuse but.

Many of the licencees in trouble for noise concerns emanating from their live music are probably as confused about the legislation as most of us are. They may (wrongly) assume that as so much time and trouble was involved in obtaining (and paying for) the additional licensing permission required for their premises to provide live music, that they could just go ahead with it. When of course, even with this permission,the premises are still subject to The Environmental Protection Act. So then, what use is this additional entertainment permission?

So as far as noise is concerned, The Licensing Act 2003, is of no use and can only further confuse us all on the serious issue of noise.

The LGA Group lobby (who know better but have an agenda of their own, which this position suits) tend to encourage the impression that many councillors are under, that the removal of additional entertainment permission would result in residents being subjected to uncontrolled noise.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 04:20 AM

http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/news/Live-music-plan-aims-revive-trade-market-town-s-forgotten-street/article-2688269-d

TOWN councillors are introducing live music to Beverley's "forgotten" shopping area to try and bring in more customers.

From next month, live bands will be striking up in North Bar Within every Saturday, as civic bosses try to reverse the dwindling fortunes of the historic shopping street.

Sounds OK so far, until someone complains.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 03:03 AM

This appears to relate to the playing of electrically amplified music. So why is it of relevance here, a folk forum?

The wider picture shows that all live music is under threat from local authorities enforcement of planning, licensing and envirionmental legislation and non-amplified music in particular suffers because measures they introduce to deal with actual or potential noise make no distiction.

Moreover, it appears to relate to the use of statutory powers to abate nuisance - precisely reflecting the argument of many opponents of the Licensing Acts that other powers render the use of Licensing Act powers unnecessary.

I think that these examples demonstrate exactly that point. Many of these premises who have noise abatement procedures will have already obtained the additional entertainment permission required under the Licensing Act 2003, showing that this (as it only applies to noise from music etc) is no answer to noise problems.

Neighbours of pubs do not necessarily want to have the pub's noise imposed on them. What is so hard to grasp about that? A nuisance is a nuisance whether or not those inconvenienced came to it.

People who move to live near a farm, do so aware of the problems associated with an activity which has taken place on that site, often for hundreds of years. Is it suggested that farms stop operating because these new neighbours object to the normal processes?

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 02:50 PM

This appears to relate to the playing of electrically amplified music. So why is it of relevance here, a folk forum?

Moreover, it appears to relate to the use of statutory powers to abate nuisance - precisely reflecting the argument of many opponents of the Licensing Acts that other powers render the use of Licensing Act powers unnecessary.

Neighbours of pubs do not necessarily want to have the pub's noise imposed on them. What is so hard to grasp about that? A nuisance is a nuisance whether or not those inconvenienced came to it.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 02:31 PM

http://www.hambledonsurrey.co.uk/content/view/293/37/

Council Reviews Village Pub Premises Licence

A complaint of excessive noise from music events at the Merry Harriers will be considered by Waverley Borough Council on Monday (Sept 27th) at a licence review hearing.

John King comments:
The future of music at the Merry Harriers will be decided tomorrow. The council here is taking ONE complaint very seriously, and is deciding whether to cancel all music, or install a noise limiter (effectively the same thing) - or removing the licensee from the licence.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 24 Sep 10 - 01:52 PM

http://www.kyeo.tv/2010/09/20/outrage-as-live-music-threatened-in-newcastle/

John King comments:
The 'rights' of one person to move next to an existing business and have it closed down on the grounds of noise distubance are now enshrined in law.

llogical laws and new housing developments could put an end to live music and band rehearsals in the thriving cultural heart of Newcastle.

Two major new housing developments received planning permission at Newcastle City Council's Planning Committee last Friday. One is for a development of 42 flats in blocks on the former Stephen Easten site in Foundry Lane, Ouseburn. The second site is immediately adjacent and is a development of 10 residential and five commercial units by Brackenshaw Ltd, the former Kelly Plant site.

The applications had been objected to strongly by businesses in Ouseburn, which see residential development in the central Ouseburn valley as a threat to the noise-producing businesses in that part of the valley, which include the Cluny, Ship and Cumberland Arms pubs, and the rehearsal rooms in the Off Quay Building on Foundry Lane, just yards from the developments, and in the Garage in Hannington Street to the north, to name but some.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 24 Sep 10 - 01:38 PM

http://www.dacorum.gov.uk/pdf/Licensing%20-%2025-09-2008%20-%20Minutes.pdf

The following from John King:
Dacorum Council just don't like live music. Here they are banning musicians from using amplification in a vegetarian restaurant.

Councillors Taylor and Bhinder were of the considered opinion: 'People would not want live
...amplified music when they were having a meal with their guests.'

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 24 Sep 10 - 01:35 PM

http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/news.ma/article/88418?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ma-rss-all-news+%28Rss+news+feed+for+Morning+Advertiser%29&utm_content=Twitter

Licence updates threaten pub live music
By John Harrington
24/09/2010 09:20
Councils across London are standing by the use of controversial risk-assessment forms for promoted events at bars.

The pub industry and live-music campaigners argue that Form 696 — which requires venues to state details for promoted events, including names and ages of every promoter or performer — is an unnecessary burden and should instead be scrapped.

But the Morning Advertiser has learnt that several authorities in London have flagged up the forms in their updated licensing policies — these have to be renewed every three years.

For example, Islington's policy says that all licensees who host live performers, whether "musicians, DJs, MCs or other artistes", will be "expected" to carry out a risk assessment.

The authority "recommends" Form 696, which it says should be completed "in consultation with police.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 24 Sep 10 - 06:32 AM

http://www.citylocal.co.uk/HemelHempstead/news-in-HemelHempstead/councils-successful-licensing-prosecution-60673/

The following from John King:

Dacorum Council successfully prosecute a publican who left his windows open while a jazz band were performing.

Councillor Colette Wyatt-Lowe, Portfolio Holder for Residents and Regulatory Services, said: "In the interests of the public, the Council will not hesitate to take action against licensees who flout their Premises Licence conditions."

This is the type of B/S that Councillors seem only too willing to be spokesperson for. In practice and because of the sort of detail now being placed in licensing conditions - I doubt if there are any premises who are not in breach of their licensing conditions.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 06:18 AM

http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/8407215.Eatery_fails_over_late_licence_bid/

Moe's Grill, situated in the new K Village shopping centre, had applied for a late alcohol and live entertainment licence to serve customers until midnight.

However, at a special sitting of South Lakeland District Council's licensing sub-committee, the owners were left disappointed.

After five hours, councillors decided to refuse the permit for both licences. They did, however, award an alcohol licence between 9am and 11pm.

The pattern continues - No live music but permission for booze is OK.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 06:13 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11394354

The following comments from John King:
South Lakeland Council take a hard line on regulated entertainment.

Here are the council's heroic licensing officers hard at work in Sedbergh Primary School. This is a premises licence operating schedule for gymnastic displays (but only on ...Wednesdays between 16:00 and 16:45) and for the school orchestra to performances on a Saturday (between 10:00 and 10:45 only).

P14 of the schedule states that 'where sensible the police will be informed beforehand'.

DCMS have always been adamant that councils would not and could not behave in this way.

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 02:56 AM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/23/police-ukcrime?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Police see tackling antisocial behaviour as beneath them

Report reveals many officers do not regard such incidents as 'real police work'

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 02:01 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p009ztkq/Bea_Udeh_19_09_2010/

Interview with Mike Forrester - promoter who successfully sued Manchester City Council for cancellation of a Bob Marley Tribute Festival. Scroll to 1:21

Subject: RE: Licensing consultation announced!
From: GUEST,The Shambles
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 04:24 AM

http://www.musicweek.com/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=1042610&c=1

Lib Dem peer Lord Clement Jones, who was also on the panel at the fringe meeting, added that he hoped his recently-reintroduced Private Members Bill to reduce Licensing Act red tape and encourage music at the grass roots level would also get a fair hearing from Licensing Minister John Penrose.

Clement -Jones' bill is likely to get a reading next month and the peer added, "Given a fair wind, I hope it can happen. Penrose is highly sympathetic. He might even want to go further."