BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 07:03 PM

And if you read my report on the first Sidmouth Folk Week a few years back, which is still on the BBC, you'll see me saying in there about the camaraderie, the sense of family and belonging that was going on inside the Ham Marquee during the main show, whilst outside, the Lost Children were being rounded up by the police, after one had attacked another with a knife, almost cutting his throat....The young girlfriend was in the Ladies Toilet with me, trying to wash out the blood from her tissue, so she could use it again on her 'man'...

It shows that things were bad way back in the 1950's then?

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 06:37 PM

If children are not educated to be able to compete, then, until we reform the capitalist system they will indeed have something to need to blank out of their minds: the fact that they are useless. Remove capitalism or enable people to make their way in it.

The biggest problem is the admiration of the useless for the useless. Until idols are no longer footballers and plasticised musicians, but in stead people who do something useful or admirable, there is no hope of aspiration guiding people to improve themselves.

But in stead "intellectual" is a term of abuse in England.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 06:36 PM

"I didn't grow up to be an arsehole, for your information, nor an obsessive internet stalker either."

Many would disagree.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 06:18 PM

Spot on Mr Barden.

To lump clubs and pubs together as having the same effect, is frankly stupid.

The majority of pubs serve responsible locals who go out for a quiet social evening, and the landlords of those have a degree of respect for law and order which prevents the kind of abuse which is under discussion.

Most pubs actually close fairly early, between 11 and 12pm.

Clubs, and the very large town centre boozers are a very different matter, serving until the early hours without care or thought for the condition of those they turn loose on the local community.

Lizzie commented on the loss of the Discos she used to go to in the sixties. What the hell does she think attracts the youngsters to night clubs in the first place. They are, of course massive Discos, and the sweat worked up in dancing translates to a monumental need for liquid intake, which the cynical owners are only too happy to supply.

Pre-loading on nearly free supermarket booze completes the picture.

Yet this incompetent bunch of lunatics at present running the asylum, decide to ignore the real culprits, and concentrate instead on completing the destruction of the British Local, thereby punishing for binge drinking,the one section of the population which doesn't do it.

Well done all you politicos, who have your own local in Westminster, immune to the regulations applied to ours.

If we, the responsible majority, don't get rid of these prats when we have the chance, we'll have to do all OUR drinking and music making at home.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 05:50 PM

Strange then, how this non-existant problem is costing the country and the NHS BILLIONS of pounds...

I mean, that's a whole lotta money for something that isn't happening, huh?

My childhood wasn't 'idyllic', it was very ordinary...very, very ordinary..and I didn't grow up to be an arsehole, for your information, nor an obsessive internet stalker either.


Folk Festivals, Dave.

Why yes.

And if you read my report on the first Sidmouth Folk Week a few years back, which is still on the BBC, you'll see me saying in there about the camaraderie, the sense of family and belonging that was going on inside the Ham Marquee during the main show, whilst outside, the Lost Children were being rounded up by the police, after one had attacked another with a knife, almost cutting his throat....The young girlfriend was in the Ladies Toilet with me, trying to wash out the blood from her tissue, so she could use it again on her 'man'...

And on their hips sat the babies, the next generation of Lost Children....

It's all there, on the BBC board....about 60 pages back now, but I expect you know exactly where to find it..

Sorry John, but in this instance, I know way too many young people who have been touched by alcohol, so I don't believe it's a tiny minority...but I agree wholeheartedly with you that we should, as a nation, have far more GOOD news around, along with uplifting TV and Radio programmes...

Far less Eastenders and Big Brother and far more happy and inspirational programmes...and News, for all.   Great idea..and one that Michael Moore commented on in his Bowling for Columbine film, when he mentioned how the Canadian Government ensures that its population has a good percentage of positive news, thus making people feel far more hopeful and cheerful.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 05:41 PM

The only way I am going to let you off, is if you visit Faldingworth Live. We have the Pub camping area where you can lay your weary pissed out of your brains head (Thats after the concert) at no cost. So no excuses.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 05:38 PM

Lying git :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 05:36 PM

Les I wouod no mre direct a post like that at you than.......than.....than..... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 05:32 PM

hmmm sounds like you did FolkieDave

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 05:30 PM

Hear hear that man. I spent over 20 years teaching the 16-19 year age group.

They could be trouble but 99.9% were great and I see some of them, with every social disadvantage in the world teaching at that same college having done education the long way round if you like.

I have seen so many people with very little advantage in life do so well it annoys me immensely when people come along and disparage them and the teaching profession. I have seen people in quite important jobs say to teachers "If it wasn't for you I wouldn't be here".

There is a "moral panic" about binge drinking. It happens elsewhere in Europe. Look up "botellon"in Google. I was in southern Spain when the Sevilla/Granada botellon's took place and it was clear the newspapers had exacerbated the problem. They all went barmy for a while and then calmed down once the newspapers had had their say and moved on to other things.

I go to a lot of festivals and I see the dozens of young musicians working so hard at their music and then having a great time with it and each other. In over 40 years of going to folk festivals I can count the bad incidnets on the fingers of one finger. What a shame people don't concentrate on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 05:23 PM

Just what planet are you from, Lizzie?

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: The Barden of England
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 04:51 PM

Lizzie - Why can't we show our children how to be responsible adults? Children grow up - I know as I was one once, as we all were. I fail to see why the majority in this land should pay with their liberty by the faults of the minority, and I'm sure it is a minority. The news programmes only show the selected few stumbling out of pubs and clubs. Why don't they show us the vast majority of people who go out and enjoy themselves, young and old? Maybe it's because it doesn't make good news. I'm sick and tired of the majority in this country paying the price of a tiny minority acting like complete idiots. Ban the idiots, not the populace.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 04:46 PM

I hope you didn't direct that at me Dave!

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 04:04 PM

Since your childhood was so idyllic, how come you turned out to be such an arsehole as an adult?

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 04:02 PM

Hey guys and gals, you are ruining a very good thread again.

Its the same ones again.

Get a grip of yourselves. You are behaving like children.

I'll get me toys

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 04:01 PM

Oh - and I think we may be on change of topic 3 or 4, Still waiting for more cries of victimisation:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 04:00 PM

I must say I am now having difficulties following the thread at all. First the government was congratulated for 'waking up at last' and doing something about binge drinking. Then they were criticised for causing binge drinking in the first place making kids go into the 'education system' when they were born. Then 'the system' was criticised for being too strict and structured. Then we were told that discipline was all part of lthe loving attention that children need. Then a very employee of that that system received lavish praise for telling us 'the problem of alcohol abuse has been around for a long time. There is neither a simple cause nor a simple answer'. Yet, we hear that it is simply down to 'the Education 'SYSTEM' which is stealing our children's souls'.

I guess the education system must be crap because I was brought up in it and cannot follow that reasonaing at all. Ah well. At least I am not on my own...

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 03:50 PM

No, Dave, you know that is NOT what I meant. And in your rush to belittle my words, you have completely misconstrued them. I said the 'Old WAYS, not the Old DAYS'...


Teachers, in my school, did not make you feel that without your exams you were *nothing*. There were bad teachers, there always are, but teachers were allowed to teach in the way that was natural to them. They were allowed to design their own lessons, go off at tangents, and they didn't pile homework on us, or 'course work' either.

Your O levels didn't start from the moment you started the new term of those two years....It just carried on as normal, pretty much, with all of us swotting up a couple of weeks before the exams.

We went swimming for the fun of it, not to gain certificates and go up to the next level and the next and the next...

Teachers were not under HUGE pressure to meet their targets, tick all the boxes, and there were no school tables for anxious parents to pore over, deciding whether they should move house or not...etc...

We spent long hot summer days in the park, watching the cricket whilst chattering to one another, drinking Coca Cola or Pepsi...eating ice-creams and laying back on the warm grass, not to have oral or anal sex, but purely to relax, stare at the sky...whilst still talking to each other....and we were boys and girls in that group...

Friday and Saturday nights we often went to the local disco, but only if it was OK with our parents, who normally ran us there and picked us up...and most people drank soft drinks or beer at the bar. I don't ever, EVER remember seeing girls drunk in there either.

Of course, things started to go downhill as the alochol was pushed harder and life was made to be more stressed out and harsher...Discos closed down...

We grew up with happy music and happy times..and my generation and the one before was extremely lucky, I now feel.

Life was far gentler, because the Old Ways were still in place. Men did not expect 'sex' on the first date, and most girls wouldn't have given it to them either, because 'love' was higher on their agenda...

We didn't dress as tarts, wouldn't have wanted to...but we did dress in feminine styles, even with our jeans and cowboy boots on...

And then, the 80s hit...hard and hating...and life became harsher and harsher and harsher...and long after the Miners Strike was forgotten by many, apart from those who were so deeply torn apart by it, those who used it as an open door to anarchy were still working hard to disrupt and to cause damage...

'Class War' spread it's message of divisive hate. The Extreme Left helped it all along...TV programmes became more and more violent, women became less and less feminine and the Sex Industry replaced love.

The paedeophiles worked hard on the children...from within the toy industry, the music industry and the fashion industry and before long the Alcopops Industry was on our doorstep, and the sweet, pleasant drink was being supped by millions of very young teenagers, as the craving for alcohol seeped into their system, romanticised by the Drinks Industry itself.

In Horrabridge three shops started selling them, changing their entire shop layouts to give as much space as they could to all the new 'fun' drinks that were now becoming fashionable...because they made such a profit....

And no-one cared about the children......

The shopkeepers got rich, the parents got happy kids...and the kids found something that made them feel that actually, life wasn't that bad after all. In fact, as the alcohol grew stronger they found they could just about cope with all the tick boxes they had to tick in their controlled, dictated-to lives.

The trouble was, they needed to drink it 24/7....and then, one day, along came Mr. Politician who told them they could. In fact, he and his cronies said it was a wonderful idea!

So they did as they were told...and their parents smiled, happy that Little Johnny and Little Jemima were also happy, at long last...

Yes, life in Proleland was going exactly as planned........

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 03:19 PM

Sorry, but we need to return to the Old Ways, as fast as we are able.

Corporal punishment? Classes of 50? Diptheria? Tuberculosis? Scarlet Fever? Measles? Mumps? Polio? The old tripartite system of education? Pupils (let's not call them kids eh?) separated at 11+ and one exam virtually deciding your life? Slum housing? Tin baths? Women knowing their place? Gas lighting?

I look at the old photographs of my town and all I can see is vast improvement. Sure we left our doors unlocked. We had nothing worth stealing.

Or further back than that? Cholera? Typhoid? Horse transport? No transport? One cold water tap? Candle light? Mass overcrowding? Low life expectancy.

I approve as much of binge drinking as I approve of Lizzie's foul language on this thread. Which isn't as she pretends earlier a function of the failure of the Education System. In fact until recently she spelt the word when she used it, "fook" and ocasionally "foook". She also spelt the word "f*ck".

Before about June 2009 she she never swore like that on threads. So even if it was the the Education System that made her use obscene language she never used it on Mudcat. It is simply that Mudcat moderators let her do it.

Fortunately the rest of us have different standards.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 02:15 PM

Yes schools have changed a lot - thank goodness!! Maybe not all teachers are like Paula and Bruce but the vast majority are dedicated to helping the children in their care to achieve their full potential not just academically but as a person, socially, morally and as part of society. As for out of hours activities such as music, swimming (surely a necessity not a treat) horse riding etc I can't imagine many kids complaining and these activities were certainly on the go when I was a child so it's nothing new. I can't really see how you can make a connection between kids being given the chance to do such things and alcohol abuse!

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Bert
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 01:58 PM

Good teachers are worth more than gold

If all teachers were like Paula..and like Bruce, then our children would be in very safe and caring hands..

Yes Lizzie, I quite agree. It's well worth repeating.

Another problem is homework. It is all too often used to compensate for bad teaching. I had this math teacher once (one of the three good ones I mentioned earlier) who hated homework, he had to assign it because it was part of the course, so he'd give us a couple of the exercises in the first chapter so that he had something to mark.

Mind you he could teach though. I don't know how he did it, he'd stand up there and chat about everything under the sun, and somehow, at the end of the lesson you'd know the math.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 01:56 PM

"The sole agenda a lot of kids have is to get as drunk as possible as quickly and cheaply as they can."

And tell me, do you think that's normal? Do you never ask yourself WHY kids want to do this? Can you not see?


"It has NOTHING to do with working mothers (bearing in mind when they are working the kids are at school anyway)"

MANY children now do not even get to eat their breakfast with their families, so rushed and hurried are the mothers to get to work, so they have their breakfasts at school.   Other mothers don't give a shite about their kids and don't even bother to feed them...

HELLOEEE?   Wake UP!

"or the education system which is full of VERY caring professionals."

Sadly, those who truly care are in the minority.


"It is sadly a sign of the times that everything has to be instant and loud."

It is sadly a sign of the times that our apathy has let this all happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 01:52 PM

This is NOT the teachers fault, but the Education 'SYSTEM' which is stealing our children's souls, as it drives parents to believe that all life is about, is Achievement.

It is an INDUSTRY, making billions of pounds, and those billions are being made from our children.

Eventually, people will wake up to it.


We are tested as never before, driven by a multi billion dollar industry that demands you have to have this exam and that exam for a job, no matter what your age, or your experience. If you ain't got 'this year's must have piece of qualifying qualification' then you don't get the job...

Cool, huh?

Crap, actually.   And deadly dangerous too, because a society that judeges only on Achievements becomes ruthless and deeply competitive...A Dog eat Dog society...which is exactly what we have.


Sorry, but we need to return to the Old Ways, as fast as we are able.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 01:46 PM

Good teachers are worth more than gold, actually Bert....and I'm afraid that schools have changed a great deal.

Please read Paula's wonderful post above, because it so rare that any teacher stands up to admit what is going so wrong....

And I am absolutely with her on all this crazy After School Clubs and Extra Lessons for Little Johnny, where even in the swimming pool he is shouted at, tested, and told to achieve...

It's done so that parents who feel guilty about not being with their children as they should be can say "Oh, Little Johnny's doing SO well! He's an absolutely marvellous human being, because I'm out working for him all day long, to give him swimming lessons, riding lessons, football lessons, extra SATs tuition, extra GCSE tuition..because I'm such a bloody marvellous parent!"

Total crap, of course...because all Little Johnny needs is time to be a child....time to stand and stare, time to play in the fields with his mates, free of cares and worries, homework and exams...

We live in a terribly stressed out society..and those 20/30 year olds are no different to the teenagers now coming up, because this has been going on since they were teenagers...and NEVER before, no matter what articles are produced here...NEVER has my country and it's young people suffered in this way..and the kids ARE suffering...as is the whole of the country, because if you have a young generation out partying 24/7 then you ain't got a workforce who knows which way is up in the morning...

Gone are the days of Friday and Saturday nights out...it's now all week long..and just the other day, on the bus, I was behind two young people who talked about alcohol the ENTIRE bus trip, of about 20 minutes..with the lad saying that when he's spent his £10 cash that he takes out with him each night, he then puts the rest on his credit card...

And here's a blog I wrote a long time back about exactly what Paula talks of above...

All that we are missing through Time

"I'm just a human being trying to make it in a world that is very rapidly losing its understanding of being human." - John Trudell


If all teachers were like Paula..and like Bruce, then our children would be in very safe and caring hands..

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 01:32 PM

And really wouldn't go down well in the local, Sins lol!
Last time I visited a town centre pub I was amazed. The seats had all been taken out and every wall had huge plasma screens playing at full volume. No chance of a conversation or a spot of people watching between drinks. They are designed to get as many people in drinking non stop. The beer is far stronger than most in the past and if you don't like the taste you can have something that tastes like pop that will get you drunk in no time. The sole agenda a lot of kids have is to get as drunk as possible as quickly and cheaply as they can. It has NOTHING to do with working mothers (bearing in mind when they are working the kids are at school anyway)or the education system which is full of VERY caring professionals. It is sadly a sign of the times that everything has to be instant and loud.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Bert
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 01:24 PM

I guess that schools haven't changed too much since I went during and just after the war.

With just two or three exceptions, teachers were a worthless lot. I have to disagree about exams though. Mainly because I used to enjoy them. It was the only challenge one got for the whole term. And I loved math as well, but it was rarely taught properly. I hated sports, but they weren't taught properly either.

Pure math is a game. It is not real. It is fun. But were you ever taught that in school? NO, I guarantee you weren't.

And exam results should also, or mainly, be used to assess the teachers.
Every failure is one on their part.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 01:09 PM

Here in the US there is a new fad - insert a funnel in your butt and pour in the scotch. Or have someone else do it for you. A woman is up on murder charges for doing just that for her husband. He died of alcohol poisoning. The intestines absorb the alcohol instantly.
Wouldn't you think that that would burn uncomfortably?

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Smedley
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 12:43 PM

You've made some really interesting points, Paula, and it's good to get a schoolteacher's perspective on these disputes about education.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: paula t
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 12:12 PM

A very interesting article, Folkiedave. Thanks for that.

Paula

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 12:06 PM

It isn't the first time.

http://www.historyandpolicy.org/papers/policy-paper-62.html#summ

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: paula t
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 12:03 PM

I think that the problem of alcohol abuse has been around for a long time. There is neither a simple cause nor a simple answer.

Yet again I have read that schools and teachers are to blame. In part I have to agree, as a teacher, that many children are under stress because of our target - led education system.However, I also believe that other adults are also to blame. Children today have very little "down time". Their school day is far more structured and full than my school day ever was.Many children are absolutely exhausted at the end of the day. Many of them are then driven to swimming lessons, dance lessons,extra tuition sessions,music schools etc etc.They then come home and start on their homework.There seems to be the belief that children should be occupied and learning all the time and that no time should be wasted.I often wonder how mums and dads would feel if someone dragged them away from the telly -when they flopped there at the end of a hard day -and made them do something "worthwhile and educational."Perhaps we need to lighten up as a society and let our children play ( Just like we did ) without being told off for playing on that lovely grass or making a noise.

I'm not making excuses for poor behaviour, but we seem to resent seeing children out and about, playing and "wasting time".Their lives are so structured and busy. I fear that we will see more and more "burnout" in children.However, this is not just the fault of we dreadful, uncaring, "stressy" teachers. It is the fault of society as a whole.Grown ups can develop drinking problems when they drink to escape. Maybe one of many causes of drinking problems in young people is this need to switch off and forget.

When I was younger (and no, I don't consider myself so old!) ,most pub managers would refuse to serve anyone who appeared to have "had enough." Most people went to a single pub or club for the whole night, and it would quickly become obvious to the landlord or landlady who was drinking to excess or becoming anti-social. A "quiet word" would be had, and the drinking was either then moderated or the person went home.Anyone turning up drunk to a pub or club was refused service. Does this not happen any more? Clubs and pubs seem to cater for "passing trade", with pub crawls more the norm.If drinking was monitored more carefully,then we wouldn't have quite so many people rolling out drunk onto the streets at the end of the night. Young people would still get drunk at first, because everyone needs to learn what their own limits are .I've been there, and a few experiences of ruined, shortened nights out and wretched hangovers soon taught me what my own limits were!

I believe that many adults set a bad example too. Not everyone sprawled on the street is a teenager. In fact I would say that the majority of people I have seen are in their late twenties or early thirties. The most common excuse?They were stressed out and needed to let their hair down.............I'm sure that there are many more reasons for the problem of alcohol abuse and antisocial behaviour , but I should stop typing now because I'm getting on my high horse. Many people will disagree quite strongly with my opinion, but hey, I'm a grown up.I've had a hard day and I'm off to grab a small glass of wine and put my feet up.I rest my case.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 11:40 AM

"No, not the result of 24-hour licensing, but a picture of our troubled relationship with the demon drink."

2000 years of binge drinking from Saturday's Independent

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 11:31 AM

Be Fair ! Lizzie DID make a good point in that they pushed twenty four hour opening and THEN Started going on about Binge Drinking

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 10:13 AM

"And people who care about education don't use obscene language!"

It's because of the damage the fucking Edukashon System did to my children that I started swearing in the first place.

No Lizzie the "education system" and "education" are two different things.

Having spent approximately 20 years longer in the Education System than you I am aware of its foibles and peculiarities.

Please do not swear on this forum - if you would be so kind.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 08:55 AM

WHERE are our Rebels? Where are their Voices?

We are all here, Lizzie. Rebelling against wooly thinking, wrong way logic and poor arguments, Raising our voices in unison. All but one that is:-)

Change of subject number 2. I am still on track...

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 08:47 AM

Lizzie, I've been told off by experts, so your little tirade disturbs me not one jot. I tried to have a larf with you, you got shitty - end of.

Now, I refuse to join in yet another round of Thread Wrecking with The Mudcat Motley Crew, so these are my last words on this thread.

Goodnight All.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 08:41 AM

"And people who care about education don't use obscene language!"

It's because of the damage the fucking Edukashon System did to my children that I started swearing in the first place.

A folk festival in Torquay? I ain't staying here..so you'll have to do that one...

A radio programme? Yup, I'd still love to do that one...don't have a techy brain though...and you told me I'd have to rub my tummy and recite the Bible backwards, at the same time, or some such thing...maybe it was stand on my head on the railings of Tower Bridge...

and don't worry about Woody, he's just smarting from being told off, which is odd, because he advocates telling children off...soooooooo...T'aint my fault he decided to pick up on a spelling mistake to poke fun...that was his decision, not mine...

Little Johnny IS doing PRECISELY what he's being told, actually, Richard...that's why he's drinking himself senseless out there, because he can't cope with the Conveyer Belt of Life any longer where he has to tick all the boxes and do as his Government tell him.

WHERE are our Rebels? Where are their Voices?

Silenced, by alcohol......and a Government who has given Little Johnny 24/7 Opening Hours....

Bit like Russia, really.

I suppose the next step will be Vodka on the NHS, except they're heading towards bankruptcy from patching Little Johnny up.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 08:24 AM

Also ban drinking in the street.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 08:22 AM

Diet coke please, Leveller.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 08:10 AM

"I'm out. Argue amongst yourself."

Me too - it's enough to drive you to drink. My round!

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 08:04 AM

Precicely, Richard.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 07:59 AM

If little Johnny learned to do as he was told, maybe people would not want to get rid of him.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 07:57 AM

Dave, if you have anything useful to add to this thread, then please do so, but if all you are going to do if fucking well comment on my language then may I suggest you seek out that turnip, yet again...


Lizzie adding something useful to threads to which you are contributing, used to be what I did.

I offered to help you start a radio programme so you could promote the artists you love so much. Likewise a folk festival which you said Torquay needed and could be organised.

For this I received abuse. When I have pointed out you are wrong - clearly and indisputedly wrong - not a matter of opinion but a matter of fact you scream "foul", complain about being followed by people and continue to spout garbage.

I only bother because those I believe this message board is a community of people whose opinions and knowledge can be useful.

You have threatened to leave this board time after time and then come back shortly afterwards.

People start off by treating you seriously and then find out what you are really like - I see you lost another fan on this thread.

I am just trying to save people time.

And people who care about education don't use obscene language!

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 07:44 AM

because of course, the parents want to get rid of Little Johnny as fast as possible

And this is the fault of the government and th eeducation system because?

BTW - We are now at change of topic number 1 and just one cry of victimisation. I predict at least two of the former, half a dozen of the latter and at least one threat to leave altogther before the thread reaches it's inevitable closure:-)

Any takers?

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 07:38 AM

OK, you've got a rollicking sense of humour, but it doesn't embrace the important and very useful ability to laugh at yourself. Your loss.

I used to wonder why The Usual Suspects had such a downer on one individual, and I felt great empathy with that individual. I'm beginning to understand what it is that motivates The Usual Suspects and, latterly, finding myself aligning my opinions with theirs rather more than somewhat.

I'm out. Argue amongst yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 07:27 AM

I've a rollicking sense of humour...I just ain't into belittling, that's all.

I was always taught, by a very loving father to laugh WITH people, and not AT them...but each to their own.

Yeah, you're right Dave, nowt to do with this Nanny State who have taken over the raising of our children. Nowt to do with the fact that most kids not enter school when they are 4, not 5, despite the laws...because of course, the parents want to get rid of Little Johnny as fast as possible...Oh...and yes, schools get paid for taking 4 year olds in...that's why many playgroups, and I refuse to call them anything else, are now inside the school's themselves...

Sleeping Beauty Syndrome is well and truly alive in here...

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 06:47 AM

Lighten up Lizzie, it was a leg-pull (two smiley faces).
Teaching them a sense of humour counts for a lot too. IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 06:21 AM

Oh - and sorry, in answer to your other question. Yes you are quite right. I do not see the Jesuit saying as being somehow taken over by 'New Labour'. I do not see the saying as sinister either. The underlying usage of it in the Jesuit order may have been disturbing but it is still a truism. Whoever has control of the childs early years controls their character as adults. Those on the streets 'drinking their very soul away' (whatever that may mean) are not there because New Labour made them so. Their parents must take some of the responsibility surely, don't you think?

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 06:15 AM

Our children are now entering 'formal' education systems at birth, actually, in case you aren't aware of it, Dave.

Compulsory (is that spilt rite?) education begins in the September before the child is 5. Has been so for many years and still is. If parent chose to enter their child into an educational establisment before that date how is that the fault of anyone but the parent? And why use the tag 'in case you were not aware of it, Dave' other than to belittle my earlier comment?

And we are still on a completely different topic to the one you started but seeing as it is your thread I guess you can do what you want with it. Up to and including requesting it be closed? :-)

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Binge Drinking reforms....UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 06:09 AM

"Teaching them how to spell 'compulsory' **should** be too, Liz, don'cha fink? :-) :-) "


Teaching them NOT to belittle is far more important.


"Jesuit motto - Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man

I think it is very true. The foundations are laid well before the child enters any formal education system."

Our children are now entering 'formal' education systems at birth, actually, in case you aren't aware of it, Dave. They also start 'proper' school at 4 these days...after having had many years in playgroups....sorry....'pre-school learning alliances' (what a fucking ridiculous name that is, apart from ensuring that children aren't allowed to play any longer, only learn)

So, do you not see that the Jesuit motto, which has always disturbed me, is now New Labour's too?   And do you not see their 'men' out there on our streets, drinking their very souls away?

No?

I thought not.


Dave, if you have anything useful to add to this thread, then please do so, but if all you are going to do if fucking well comment on my language then may I suggest you seek out that turnip, yet again...

Thank you.