BS: Palin sips tea tonight

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 10:17 AM

"all the polls..."    Wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 10:26 AM

What appears likely now is that President Obama will invite the Republicans to a "health care summit".   Nothing will come of this.   Then the President will be able to say: " I tried to get a bill with Republican support."--which is what conservative and moderate Democrats need to hear to have a chance for re-election.   So then there will be enough Democratic votes for "reconciliation".   But the "public option" will not be part of the bill that results. Nor will it be put back in to the bill by any Congressional maneuvering.

And the poster in question will have to accept this.   

And, just perhaps, she will have learned something about the necessity of compromise.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 10:27 AM

"into the bill"

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 01:55 PM

I see the resident troll is trying to have it both ways. Either they can get something done or they can't. Maybe compromise is necessary. No problem. If their majority means anything, they'll make whatever compromises they need to to get something meaningful passed. But they haven't done that. They're still sitting on it and not doing anything at all. The Democratic majority is meaningless if they can't get past this hurdle.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 01:57 PM

Mitch McConnell today asked (again) that the 'health' bill be withdrawn and senators work out acceptable legislation.
That would be the logical way to get an acceptable bill, but an unlikely event.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 02:17 PM

Simple Seeker's just serially spouting off to impress himself again, Carol- pay it no mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 02:58 PM

The adv. at the bottom of this thread, at the moment, is Bruce Bexley,The Tea Party Movement, and M. Butwin, Protest!, available at amazon.com. Anyone read them?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 03:24 PM

Digression:
Yep, my pensions come from Exxon-Mobil. Long may it succeed!

Financial Times Global 500

1st Quarter 2009
Exxon Mobil
PetroChina
Walmart
Industrial and Commerce Bank China

2nd Quarter 2009
PetroChina
Exxon Mobil
Industrial and Commercial Bank of China
Microsoft

Successful companies globally providing income and jobs to millions, directly and indirectly.

In Forbes (Chinese rankings lower):
General Electric
Royal Dutch Shell
Toyota
ExxonMobil
BP
HSBC Holdings
AT&T
Walmart
Banco Santander
Chevron

In holdings, Barclays, Paribas and Deutsche banks each c. 2.9 trillion.
In assets, however, ExxonMobil with 335 billion is largest; Wal-mart $193 billion.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 05:49 PM

I don't think many people would have a problem with you being able to continue to collect your pension, Q. As for supporting the success of Exxon-Mobile, I guess there's nothing wrong with that as long as their success doesn't come at the expense of our freedoms and our democracy. But when the corporate sector controls the government, that's called 'fascism', and I, for one, am against it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 06:07 PM

The government could use a few good business executives at the top.
Discipline in government does not have to mean curtailment of freedoms.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 08:35 PM

"whatever compromises are necessary".   Well, since Democrats like the good poster did not accept the Olympia Snowe "trigger", the main compromise will be:   no "public option" this year-- or next (after the midterms).

Now can the poster accept this or not?   Yes or no.

It would be fascinating for her to tell us exactly how she envisions the "public option" will be put back into any health care bill this year--and passed.   Since she assures us the majority of the US electorate now support it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 09:00 PM

It is of course heartening to hear the good poster speak of "compromise"--which is what I have been hammering at for weeks, if not longer. Congratulations to her for that.   It's a start.

Now we'll see if she actually knows what "compromise" means.

She might want to start by admitting that it's not the "evil Republicans" who are totally to blame for the health care impasse.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 09:19 PM

By the way, Greg, all your fans are waiting breathlessly for your wonderful contribution to this thread.

So far, the phrase "puerile resentment" seems amazingly apt.

But I'm sure you have excellent ideas to share with us.   We're waiting.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 09:22 PM

Please do try to keep up, Mr. troll. ONCE AGAIN, please show me where I have said I don't support the passage of the Senate bill without a public option if they can't pass it with a public option. ONCE AGAIN, put up or shut up.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 09:26 PM

And while you're at it, now go and find the dozens of posts I've made over the last several weeks in which I have ADVOCATED for the passage of the Senate bill, even if it doesn't contain the public option, if they can't pass one with a public option. And go find all of the attacks that have been leveled at me for adopting such a stance.

Ignorance of the facts is no excuse. Even if ignorance is your default mode. Put up or shut up.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 09:38 PM

You can start here.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 09:42 PM

However, the point remains - they have not passed the Senate bill, either with or without the public option. If they can't do this, their majority is meaningless.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 09:47 PM

Oh, yeah, one more thing. Please show me where I have said that the "evil Republicans" are totally to blame for the health care impasse.

If you can't produce any posts from me that contain any of the kinds of things you are accusing me of, we will know that you are just making this shit up as you go along (in other words, LYING), and for one reason and one reason only - to feed your insatiable appetite for trolling and making personal attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 08:21 PM

CPAC did not give the Palin brand of tea much notice. It was Ron Paul who won their straw poll.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 09:03 PM

Yes, Ron Paul won, but as I pointed out, these polls are meaningless at this time.
There may be a new name or two at the end of the year after congressional elections, and the run for 2012 begins.

Something on the news yesterday about the Dems wanting to discuss options with the Republicans, but they may not listen since the Dems shot their wad pushing the 60 votes in their face.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: mousethief
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 10:10 PM

And a hell of a lot of good it's done them.

O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 10:10 PM

Something on the news yesterday about the Dems wanting to discuss options with the Republicans, but they may not listen since the Dems shot their wad pushing the 60 votes in their face.

That's just posturing. If the Democrats had pushed the 60 votes in the face of the Republicans, we would have a bill already passed and signed by now.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 10:27 PM

"meaningless majority".    Wrong again. The good lady's track record is turning out to be a rather good negative indicator.

No health care bill has been passed by Congress. However, other bills have been passed in this Congress, as I have pointed out.

As a sage likes to say:   "Please try to keep up."

And we're still waiting patiently for her to tell us just how the public option is to be put back into the health care bill. Especially since the latest proposal, by the President, does not include it.

Her capacity for self-delusion is quite remarkable.





It does seem that we have made some progress however.   The dear lady appears to have realized that gutter language--though she seems to derive great enjoyment from it--isn't really necessary to have a political discussion.

Except possibly in her circles, where it might be just the normal way to communicate--who knows how she lives?

Admittedly it does not to have yet seeped into her giant brain that there is in fact a difference between a troll and a person who politely asks her to back up a statement.

Except again, possibly in her circles.

I considered continuing with "Mrs. B. S. Banshee"--it certainly does have a nice ring, and admirably captures her attitude at certain points. But I've decided not to call her "Mrs. B.S. Banshee". while keeping "Mrs. B S. Banshee" on reserve should it be needed.

And of course that also means I won't be able to use "termagant" in this context, since inflammatory language is to be shunned.   This is a particularly bitter pill, since I've waited years to use "termagant" in conversation--and it fits so perfectly.


Progress has also been made, it appears, in that she seems to realize that her mention of "filibuster-proof majority" was totally pointless--since this beast has not been sighted since long before 2008.

She has even grudgingly uttered the dread word "compromise".   "Maybe compromise is necessary". ( Now there's a ringing endorsement of compromise.)

No "maybe". It is in fact necessary--and is virtually always necessary in politics, with very few exceptions. Maybe she will eventually even learn this lesson.

In fact, the poster seems every sign of being on the road to becoming a reasonable person. Even the yapping of her "why don't you and him fight?" lapdog Greg does not seem to have stopped these favorable developments.

I'm proud of her.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 10:29 PM

Oh, I spoke too soon. She's slipped back into the gutter.    It must indeed be her home.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 10:40 PM

I also note with interest that I appear to be the only poster so far who not only has said exactly what the Democrats should have done, but also predicts what they will do now. President Obama is proving a very good politician.   The health care "summit" will show all parties that the Republican leadership has no productive ideas on health care--aside from Sen Snowe's rejected idea.

The failure of the summit will give Democrats in moderate or conservative districts cover to vote for "reconciliation". But still no public option. Liberals have squandered the only chance for even a back-door public option--the fear of the WSJ editorial page--by rejecting Sen Snowe's trigger.

Certainly good that our gentle lady poster recognizes reality to the extent that she will accept this lack of a public option--it's essential that some health care reform bill be passed--soon.   So Congress can get on to a more direct assault on the recession--and perhaps mitigate the otherwise likely Democratic bloodbath in the fall.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 11:02 PM

Still waiting Mr troll. Put up or shut up.


Public option

You need to start doing your own research instead of making other people do all of your work for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 11:05 PM

By the way, I'm also still waiting for you to answer my question about how many bills have passed since Brown was elected.

Still waiting...


Still... waiting...

...

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 06:21 AM

Well, didn't Brown vote for the jobs bill, with a handfull of other Republicans? Of course, I think it still has to go through the House.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 09:00 AM

A glimmer of hope resides in 23 senators backing a pulbic option and 5 Republicans backing the jobs recovery bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 09:49 AM

I appear to be the only poster ... [who] predicts what they will do...

WHOA! Born with a caul, I suppose. Our own NostraDavies.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 01:01 PM

As you said, Riginslinger, the jobs bill has not actually been passed into law yet.

Since the troll isn't going to answer that question, I will. Two bills have been passed into law since Brown was elected. Both of them are bills that are for the purpose of helping Haiti.   No bills have so far been passed since Brown was elected that have any effect on the lives of the voters in the US (unless they have family in Haiti, perhaps). And since the troll made the comment along the lines of "if the Democratic majority means anything" (my response to which he has been following me around the Mudcat and serially abusing me for making) after Brown was elected, and since the comment pertained to the present tense, my response that it does not, also logically pertains to the present tense. Which means that now in the period after Brown was elected, the Democratic majority appears to not mean much of anything at all. Congress is deadlocked.

If they somehow manage to pass any legislation into law that actually has any real impact on the lives of the voters here in the US, then I will revise my thinking on this - if it's not just a regurgitation of the Bush era policies. But not until then. But of course, he doesn't really care what I think about anything. He's just looking for excuses to abuse people.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Feb 10 - 06:58 AM

One of the really big problems is some Republicans have seized on the concept that if they can prevent health care from passing, they can run Obama out of town on the failure of this one issue. That being the case, they'll do anything to defeat it without regard for the merits or the needs of the American public.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Feb 10 - 12:19 PM

So it appears the dear lady and her yapping lapdog both need some instruction in elementary political science.

Surprising--I thought they were intelligent, well-read people. Perhaps I was wrong on that.

The dear lady should read her own link.   Especially "risky gambit". And note the people in favor of using reconciliation for the public option. Exactly how many are new supporters of the "public option"?

I've done a bit of research on the "polls" which "all support" the public option.   Now one is from the "Progressive Change Campaign Committee". Certainly a sterling objective group.

And another is the New York Times. But take some time to read the actual report on the "poll".   "In favor" of the public option, a majority. However, in the words of my favorite political analyst, Shania Twain:   "That don't impress me much". It's somewhat amazing I have to stoop to explain the situation to political cliches.   But perhaps the two posters mentioned above have a hard time with anything else.

Try: " The devil is in the details".

For a poll to be credible we will need:

1)   Date
2) Who sponsored it
3) Exact wording
4) Does it deal with the financing of the "public option"?. Sure, in isolation, I'm sure many would like to have the option of government-sponsored health care. But when you talk about deficits--which have been predicted by the CBO with the Democratic health plan reform basically forever--you play into the hands of Palin--remember her--the actual topic of the thread--and her cronies.

The usual line is something along the lines of: "We are burying our grandchildren under a mountain of debt".   Of course, added to the usual lines about "death panels" and "government bureaucrats substituting their judgment for that of your doctor"

The NYT poll appears to have mentioned nothing about financing.   This is a problem, to say the least.



And then we have the dear lady's assertion:   20 Feb 2010 4:58 PM:   "There is absolutely nothing preventing the Democrats from passing a health care bill with a public option".

A sublimely meaningless statement:

1)   "the Democrats".   I refer her to Will Rogers.

2)    I also refer her to the "big tent" concept.   And if she does not know what that is, I will be only too happy to explain. Feel free to ask.

3)   Don't forget the above "Devil".


But congratulations to you both for staying out of the gutter--for one post. Let's see how long you can keep it up.    Good work.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Feb 10 - 12:22 PM

"remember her?"

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Feb 10 - 12:33 PM

Oh, perhaps they've been out of the gutter for more than one post. And actually, they should feel free to slip back into the gutter if it helps them feel more at ease.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: mousethief
Date: 27 Feb 10 - 01:02 PM

Time to change your oil, Ron.

O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Feb 10 - 02:49 PM

Ron does give new meaning to the term "gobshite", doesn't he?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 01:16 AM

Newsweek Poll: Americans Still Favor Public Option

Newsweek Poll
Obama, Health Care & the GOP
Princeton Survey Research Associates International

Final Topline Results
(2/19/10)


N = 1,009 adults, 18+
Margins of error: plus or minus 3.6
Interviewing dates: 2/17-18/10


6.        Now I'm going to read you some SPECIFIC proposals people have made to change the health care system. As I read each one, please tell me if you personally favor or oppose this change. Here's the (first/next) proposal.... (INSERT ITEM-READ AND RANDOMIZE)

READ AS NECESSARY: Do you favor or oppose this proposal (to change the health care system)? ALWAYS ASK ITEMS a-c AS A GROUP, IN ORDER:

e. Creating a government-administered public health insurance option to compete with private plans


Favor - 50        Oppose - 42      Dk - 8


51% Of Self-Identified Republicans In Swing Districts Favor A Public Option

Freshman Democrats Face trouble in 2010 if congress doesn't pass a public option

List of 51 Senate Democrats Who Support a Public Option


I see you're still making everyone else do all of your work for you, troll.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 01:18 AM

Even his delusions of grandeur have delusions of grandeur.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: GUEST,John
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 01:12 AM

I'm sure glad to read that the country favors a health care bill, 'cause it sort of looked for a while there that the Democrats thought that passing that bill might lead to a complete electoral disaster.

I'll sleep easier knowing that Pelosi, Reid and the President knew what they were doing all along and have robust support from their grateful nation. The Democrats have nothing to fear if they just stay the course.

I'm sure that the Republicans, particularly Palin, are quaking in their boots now that Newsweek has uncovered their falseness in blocking this popular legislation. The nation was never on the side of the Republicans; Virginia, New Jersey and Massachusetts elections are anomalies; and the few house Democrats who were dragging their feet will fall into line real soon.

We can all thank Newsweek for their insightful poll. We certainly don't need to heed the foolish and misleading statements of the people who don't like such popular legislation.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 01:49 AM

John, most of the polls that have been taken in the past six months or more show that the majority of people support a health care reform bill that includes a public option, and that a much smaller number of people support the Senate bill without the public option.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 01:52 AM

By the way, the Massachusetts election was not in any way a referendum on health care reform. The people of Massachusetts already have universal health care in that state, and the guy they voted for, Brown, voted FOR that legislation when he was in the state legislature.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 10:24 AM

No, the Massachusetts election was all about immigration.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 01:30 PM

Sarah Palin spoke to an audience of 1200 or more (hall capacity) last night, attendees paying $200 for the privilege.
Many more tickets could have been sold, but there were a number of donations by those unable to attend.
Quite a success for a speech made outside of the U. S., but Calgary is mostly conservative in its views.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 02:06 PM

How could many more tickets have been sold if the audience was already at hall capacity?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 06:52 PM

UK papers are full of how Miss Sarah is wiping the floor with Mr Romney.
They also insinuate that the Dems are praying Mrs Palin gets the Pub nomination, saying that "Palin is Obama's preferred option"

That would IMO, be a very serious mistake.
"The times they are a changin'"

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 08:51 PM

Anyone who wanted to buy a ticket as a donation and not attend was allowed to do so.

Calgary, as a business center in western Canada, has many thousands of Americans resident in the city. The Calgary census counts 22,000 American residents.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 08:53 PM

Where do the donations go? For what or whom is she raising money?

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: GUEST,John
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 09:07 PM

Akenaton gets the point that I hope that everyone gets. Sarah Palin is not much of a risk as a Presidential candidate several years from now.

She has been the chief voice of opposition to the policies of the current administration, opposition that has fought a popular (before Palin and others started chipping away) President to a virtual standstill.

Carol is still focused on whether she used to belong to a church that has some vague connection to some extreme outfit that is vaguely repugnant to people like her. Who cares? Why is this about Palin?

Palin is getting good money for speaking to big crowds with great news coverage right now. She isn't going to stop. She is not a fool to be ignored. She isn't losing her fight; she is winning.

She is plenty bright, has good character, has a good record of sound administration of a little state government, is not particularly extreme, and is very appealing to our political opponents. The best we seem to be able to do is try to land telling slurs about the church she used to go to, or where she writes her interview reminders.

If we don't get serious, we are going to be toasted by someone whose only tools are a little charm and national audience.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin sips tea tonight
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Mar 10 - 09:32 PM

I don't see Palin as a standard bearer in 2012, but her support might make or break a candidate when the conventions roll around. She may fit a No. 2 spot again.

It is too early to start anointing the one, the only, the true Republican standard bearer at this time.
Romney will be stronger than he was in the last election, and he has the billions required. He is spending a lot of time on the TV.
That young one from Massachusetts is rising fast and is on the speaking trail as well. There is time for another 'star' to arise.

Whoever it is will likely be the next president.