BS: Texas does it again- conservative books

Subject: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 08:59 PM

SCHOOL books..

"Conservatives put stamp on Texas textbooks
New social studies curriculum stresses religion over evolution"

I hope this URL remains good

First 2 paragraphs:

"AUSTIN, Texas - A far-right faction of the Texas State Board of Education succeeded Friday in injecting conservative ideals into social studies, history and economics lessons that will be taught to millions of students for the next decade.

Teachers in Texas will be required to cover the Judeo-Christian influences of the nation's Founding Fathers, but not highlight the philosophical rationale for the separation of church and state. Curriculum standards also will describe the U.S. government as a "constitutional republic," rather than "democratic," and students will be required to study the decline in value of the U.S. dollar, including the abandonment of the gold standard. "

Some know that I try to stay in the position of supporting everyone's right to believe and think for themselves, but I am also on record as objecting **strongly** to having such conservative, religious-based ideas IMPOSED on everyone else!
We all know that Texas is a bastion of such attitudes, but it is also becoming a poster-state for limitation of that hallowed idea of 'state's rights'...............

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 09:05 PM

It is so embarrassing to live in this state when they do this stupid stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 09:14 PM

I've been following this. As I understand it, they have not had a final vote, yet?

I've been wondering if a movement could be started in each state to ban buying textbooks from them.

Some of their rewrites of history includes more emphasis on Jefferson Davis being on par with Lincoln as to morality and even reports that some people still celebrate Davis' birthday.

There is so much wrong with what they want to impose...something really needs to stop this bullshit.

SRS, don't worry, we won't hold it against you!:-)

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 09:24 PM

"...ban buying textbooks from them."... you mean from Texas?

It's not 'from them', it's that they buy so many books that they affect what gets published & printed.

"Decisions by the board — made up of lawyers, a dentist and a weekly newspaper publisher among others — can affect textbook content nationwide because Texas is one of publishers' biggest clients."

That situation affects all of us, whether we live in Texas or not. Authors of many textbooks tend to tailor the details to suit what will sell, and when there ARE competing authors and books, publishers simply don't like to publish ones that have fewer customers....and you'd better believe that conservatives in Texas are aware of this! I lived in Kansas, and we sure saw many of those...

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 09:28 PM

Ah, I've had it wrong all of these years then. I thought the pubs. were actually Texan and the whole nation bought mostly from them, no matter their agenda. Then what can we do?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 09:40 PM

*WE* can publicly protest and petition OUR school boards to hold the line and not be treated like cattle...or sheep... by what Texas does.

Money counts...and the more states which approve & buy 'fair' textbooks, the less influence Texas will have.

(Hey...Rachel Maddow JUST mentioned this! And the situation is that some of the more hardline conservative board members were voted out...but they are still in office for 10 more months..(why? I don't know)... so they are pushing thru decisions that generally last for 10 years... (seems school boards don't like changing major parts of the curriculum every year...costs money)

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: 3refs
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 09:46 PM

"Teachers in Texas will be required to cover the Judeo-Christian influences of the nation's Founding Fathers"
Got no issues with that! I may, or may not totally agree. It is the history though, and the truth shall set you free!

"but not highlight the philosophical rationale for the separation of church and state. Curriculum standards also will describe the U.S. government as a "constitutional republic," rather than "democratic," and students will be required to study the decline in value of the U.S. dollar, including the abandonment of the gold standard. "
Got issues with some of that though!

"Some know that I try to stay in the position of supporting every one's right to believe and think for themselves, but I am also on record as objecting **strongly** to having such conservative, religious-based ideas IMPOSED on everyone else!"
First let me say that I pass no judgement, nor will I question your opinion or your beliefs(about anything). You've stated them, but I will ask you this! Is there a place, or should there be a place , or could there be a place(?) where "like minded people" could go, live as they wish with their customs and beliefs, but still be part of this new global family.
There is much that goes on in "far far away land", that was really freakin removed from Sudbury, Ontario and in my 52 years. Now all we do is type it up in our search engine and there we are! I may not comment, in print, to much of what is discussed here on Mudcat, but I have peeled myself off the ceiling on more that one occasion! There are.........people, who live in a certain way(s), pratice their way of life, that the courts of this(our)free world have defended, that make me go out of my fucking mind. I don't understand how one persons rights can change how an entire community, county, town, city........can force "US" not to offend them!
Sorry1(I'm Canadian)

How can anyone not like curling?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: 3refs
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 10:01 PM

Had to stop myself from being misunderstood! Deleted a half a page of making myself look worst!

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 10:22 PM

Well, the US did abandon the gold standard, so I don't see any reason why that fact shouldn't be taught. It would only be a problem if the teacher (or textbook) took a position that this was a good or bad thing, without showing that there are (or were at the time) plausible arguments on both sides.

There's nothing like a little controversy to wake up bored students.

Here's an idea: assign two students to debate whether going off the gold standard would be a good thing. Have them debate it as if it hadn't happened yet, and have them use the same arguments that people used when the problem was being considered. Grade them not on whether their arguments are right or wrong, but whether they are historically accurate--do they accurately depict what some people once believed?

You could do the same thing with any issue that has been debated in the past.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 10:26 PM

Ummm...3refs...type slower and say what you mean in fewer words.

You ask: "Is there a place, or should there be a place , or could there be a place(?) where "like minded people" could go, live as they wish with their customs and beliefs, but still be part of this new global family. "

If I understand the point correctly, they CAN right now. People in Texas...or anywhere else in the US (I'm not sure about Canada) can believe, worship, comb their hair and eat pie, any way they choose, as long as they don't demand that their neighbors do the same. In this case in Texas, they are warping the school curriculum for everyone to suit their own **subjective** beliefs.

"Live as they wish" shouldn't mean have a rigid, one-rule-fits-all society....the world is too crowded & complicated for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 10:30 PM

"There's nothing like a little controversy to wake up bored students."

right...but that ain't what Texas conservatives are after. The gold standard is a minor part of what is being planned about teaching history. They want to limit what is said about Thomas Jefferson because he advocated separation of church & state....and such stuff....(I'm still reading)

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 11:33 PM

The New York Times suggested that Texas will have less of an effect than they used to because the digital age allows easier tailoring of textbook contents between states than used to be possible... still, it's a whacked out situation for Texans, and probably lots more.

NPR's story

New York Times

"Following three days of impassioned and acrimonious debate, the board gave preliminary approval to the new standards with a 10-5 party line vote. A final vote is expected in May, after a public comment period that could produce additional amendments and arguments." (NPR)

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Mar 10 - 11:53 PM

...a public comment period that could produce additional amendments and arguments." (NPR)

I certainly hope so!

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 02:57 AM

Is it Texas that now requires the possibility that global warming is caused by astrology to be taught?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:43 PM

Let's just say that the result these arbiters of text book content wish for as a conservative Christian nation that is opposed to taxes and elects Republicans to office every time. If they can get the content in text books to reflect their wishes, there are a lot of students who won't have teachers who present opposing views, and this will be accepted as "fact." If you can set the ideas early, you do a lot toward achieving your goals. I'd be willing to bet there is no critical thinking component, or it is severely dumbed down, in these text books.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Wesley S
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:52 PM

Kat - I've never heard of anyone celibrating Davis's birthday in the 30 years I lived in Texas.

So if they plan to mention the beliefs of the founding fathers I wonder if that includes Unitarians?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:59 PM

as I posted on the South Dakota thread:

"It's just too damn bad that ignorance doesn't itch!"

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 04:12 PM

Good write-up in the NY Times today (online ed.). A few weeks ago,there was a detailed article on their beliefs in the NY Times Magazine section, with full color pictures of well-known paintings (Washington Crossing the Delaware, etc.) with Jesus added.

A shame that books approved by the Texas Board will be taught from across the country. There are alternates available, however, but Texas is such a large market that 'Christian-approved' books will be cheaper.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 07:36 PM

Bill D, I need to appropriate that one. And use it often.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 09:27 PM

Curriculum standards also will describe the U.S. government as a "constitutional republic," rather than "democratic"

We ARE a constitutional republic.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 10:16 PM

The Constitution describes the U. S. as "a democratic republic of the people, by the people and for the people"

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: ichMael
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 10:28 PM

Seems my copy of the constituion perished from this earth. Where exactly in the constitution is that sentence?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 11:05 PM

Actually, it says that each state is guaranteed "...a republican form of government, ..." Article IV. section 4)

But "Beginning with the Constitution's adoption, America has been a Republic. But the dominant trend over the last two centuries has been to make it into a democracy as well, a representative democracy, also know as a democratic republic."

The current Republicans simply don't LIKE the word 'democratic' to be associated with anything positive, and this is an attempt to strip it from any labels and mention.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: ichMael
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 12:00 AM

No, actually, Bill, the textbooks will call the U.S. a constitutional republic because that's what we are. Do you really think the decision to call us a constitutional republic was made on the basis of the Democrat/Republican labeling that clouds your vision? You need to quit smokin' that stuff man. Long as they have you shaking your fist at the other team, you're not paying attention to who owns the teams.

We could go the way of California, I guess. Schwarzenegger wants to give all kids laptop computers, to save the cost of textbooks. Of course, then there wouldn't even be a 15 member commission to review what is laid in front of the kids' eyes. One person could dictate curriculum with a few keystrokes. Didn't google just eliminate Animal Farm and 1984 from one of their book downloading services? Too "political." We should be thankful for these commissions. If you don't like the one in your state, then do something about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 01:53 AM

You might want to check your facts before posting assumptions, ichMael. From last summer from HERE (As you will see, Amazon, not Google, pulled them because they were not authorized by the publisher..they are not in the public domain, yet):

If you're into keeping tabs on irony, check this out. Amazon apparently sent out its robotic droogs last night, deleting copies of the George Orwell novels Animal Farm and Nineteen Eighty-Four from Kindles without explanation, then refunding the purchase price. As you can imagine, a lot of people caught in the thick of Winston and Julia's love story aren't very happy -- and rightfully so -- the idea that we "own" the things we buy is pretty fundamental to... ownership. We're not sure exactly what happened, but it seems that the publisher of said novels, MobileReference, has changed its mind about selling content on the Kindle, and poof! Amazon remotely deleted all previously purchased copies. It's all a bit Orwellian, is it not? Good thing we "permanently borrowed" hard copies of both from our middle school library, huh? Let Hate Week commence.

Update: According to commenters on Amazon, this message was sent out from the company's customer service department:

    The Kindle edition books Animal Farm by George Orwell. Published by MobileReference (mobi) & Nineteen Eighty-Four (1984) by George Orwell. Published by MobileReference (mobi) were removed from the Kindle store and are no longer available for purchase. When this occurred, your purchases were automatically refunded. You can still locate the books in the Kindle store, but each has a status of not yet available. Although a rarity, publishers can decide to pull their content from the Kindle store.

While that publisher's version of the book may have been removed, it appears other versions of the novels are still available.

Update 2: Drew Herdener, Amazon.com's Director of Communications, pinged us directly with the following comment, and now things are starting to make a lot more sense. Seems as if the books were added initially by an outfit that didn't have the rights to the material.

    These books were added to our catalog using our self-service platform by a third-party who did not have the rights to the books. When we were notified of this by the rights holder, we removed the illegal copies from our systems and from customers' devices, and refunded customers. We are changing our systems so that in the future we will not remove books from customers' devices in these circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 09:31 AM

Here's an idea: assign two students to debate whether going off the gold standard would be a good thing. Have them debate it as if it hadn't happened yet, and have them use the same arguments that people used when the problem was being considered. Grade them not on whether their arguments are right or wrong, but whether they are historically accurate--do they accurately depict what some people once believed?


"Having behind us the producing masses of this nation and the world, supported by the commercial interests, the laboring interests and the toilers everywhere, we will answer their demand for a gold standard by saying to them: You shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns, you shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold."

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: DougR
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 12:58 PM

Right on Texicans!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 01:04 PM

If you don't like what Texas has done,


1. DON'T move to Texas.

2. Tell YOUR state NOT to use the textbooks. IF enough people want a different viewpoint, the market will supply it. IF there is not enough demand, then home school your kids.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 03:40 PM

I admit to a certain kind of agenda myself.

Practically every advance society has made was opposed by the conservatives of the day. Colonialism, slavery, Jim Crow laws—all had their defenders. Civil rights, women's suffrage, Social Security and other welfare programs, all were opposed. Not only with money and force but with rhetoric. We need to hear some of that rhetoric today.

It would help us put things in perspective when we hear the same (or similar) arguments being made today, say, in opposition to health care reform.

*
"One person could dictate curriculum with a few keystrokes."—just like they control the Internet today?
*
Democracy or republic?

The way the words are used today, I'd say we're definitely a republic, because that's the form of government we have, but we are more or less democratic depending on how fairly our election laws are administered.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 06:14 PM

"... the textbooks will call the U.S. a constitutional republic because that's what we are. Do you really think the decision to call us a constitutional republic was made on the basis of the Democrat/Republican labeling that clouds your vision? "

The **decision** to 'correct' the textbooks made by conservatives in Texas was made out of spite for being voted out, and to insert conservative Republican bias into the textbooks fro at least the next 10 years! They want certain words to shine and other words to be put into disrepute. They have admitted as much. Many scholars agree with the analysis I quoted above, and your attempt to reduce the discussion to narrow assertions of your own view doesn't change anything.
My 'vision' is based on 50 years of following BOTH sides of all this and reading and listening. I am quite able to discern the difference between striving for historical accuracy and one-sided
loading of the curriculum with propaganda and subjective flavoring.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: ichMael
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 09:59 PM

Amazon. Thank you katlaughing. But the point is still essentially the same. A keystroke could alter curriculum. I'd rather go with commissions, flawed as they might be, and stay with printed textbooks.

And no, Bill D, this isn't an attempt by "Republicans" to suppress the word "Democrat" in Texas. It's just a matter of a conservative state doing what it can to pass along its ideals to its school children. I expect more liberal states do the same in their schools, and I have no problem with that.

If you want to parse words, what word normally follows "Texas Schoolbook" in the mind of politically-minded Americans? I'd say "Depository." I have no doubt that this story was given national attention for a reason, but I think it's more likely the reason is that liberals in America get a gut cramp when they think of the Texas Schoolbook Depository. "Bastards in Texas killed Kennedy when the motorcade passed the Schoolbook Depository." Dems think of Texas Schoolbooks and immediately begin to hyperventilate.

Sounds like I'm younger than you, and I'm already tired of the rope-a-dope tactics of divisive politics. I won't support them any longer. Bush started genocidal wars and blatant torture, and Obama continues. These little schoolbook stories are thrown out bone-like to us so we keep bickering and don't unite on the big issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 10:17 PM

"Republic" in the Greek sense. Which has nothing much to do with the modern American Republican Party. Quite the contrary.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 10:49 PM

"It's just a matter of a conservative state doing what it can to pass along its ideals to its school children. "

Ain't thet whut I done SAID? Lordy! You make my point FOR me!

Only I said it without the genteel tone you use.
It is not for school books to "pass along **ideals**"!!

The purpose of education should be to give information, and the tools to objectively evaluate information.

If parents wish to put their 'spin' on kids education at home, there is little anyone can do to stop them, but the school system is suppose to be as neutral as possible. Conservatives are constantly fighting this ideal, because they fear...rightly... that if kids learn to think for themselves, they just 'might' not toe the party line and memorize all the 'conservative values' required!

I was fortunate to get a fairly neutral education, even though at times, "Christian values" were presented as if there was no alternative, and in college, I was in a dept. of Philosophy where **thinking** was stressed. When I graduated from college, I was suddenly awash in a city where it was difficult to work & play without being judged by how I answered 'certain questions' about my political & religious views. I got pretty good at it, but it was tiresome!

I was once offered a federal job in Texas, but by then I had spoken to several friends who warned me that it was MUCH harder to avoid 'those questions' in many parts of Texas.

   Please...do not insult me by silly assertions about "passing along ideals"... I KNOW what that amounts to under certain situations, and I think I am glad that I was able to raise MY son where the 'ideals' included freedom to decide for himself!

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: ichMael
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 11:09 PM

Sounds like it's more an issue of a suppository than a depository with you. My mistake.

You're being played. I'm no filosofer but I know that this issue doesn't amount to much when compared to the 387 bunker busters that are on their way to Diego Garcia right now. I hope Obama issues orders to form two lines in the FEMA centers--Dems and Reps--just so you folks can keep your eyes on each other. You'd better keep your eyes peeled until they stand you up against the wall. One of those bastards might get away.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: DougR
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 12:01 PM

I don't believe it is the role of text books to support one ideal or another. Facts, that's what should be presented. Just facts.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Amos
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 01:22 PM

I am sure that is generally agreed, Doug, but which ones? An awful lot of Native American history was left out of my public-school curriculum, for example. Good solid facts portraying the brutality of white expansion, and its impact on the (equally omitted) civilization of the tribes who occupied the country before the Vikings (another omission) made it to North America.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 01:51 PM

And here I always thought that Columbus discovered America. 1492 right?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 02:49 PM

"Now, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts; nothing else will ever be of any service to them. ... Stick to Facts, sir! ... In this life, we want nothing but Facts, sir-; nothing but Facts!"

--from "Hard Times," by Charles Dickens.

The trouble is, if you don't show how the facts are relevant to current decisions we have to make, the facts become dull, dull, dull.

Without considering how the facts are relevant, how do you decide which facts are worth learning and which are not?

Of course, if you believe the school board should do all the considering, and not the teachers or students, then you would probably support the Texas system.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 04:06 PM

"387 bunker busters" IF that were true, what do you want me to do about it? Seems just like an interesting way of not not responding to what I said. (and most of the pages on that topics are in French)

No, I am NOT "being played".... all I do is go to the polls and vote the best way I can. There weren't enough of me to keep GW Bush out of power, so now we have MORE problems than any one man can juggle easily.

Let's keep Iran out of a discussion on school books, hmmm?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: ichMael
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 09:50 PM

Gee. I didn't know I could read French.

More problems than one man can juggle, Mr. D.? I assume you mean "their guy," i.e. Bush, created problems that "your guy", i.e. Obama has to juggle. I agree with your assessment of Obama as a sideshow performer, but I can't agree with your continued slavish devotion to the divisive two-party world view.

As a fellow filosofer, I'm sure you'll agree that the "sides" in America may not be what you perceive them to be. I mean, it's possible that what we have isn't a left/right thing. It could be more of a labor/management thing, in which case Obama would be management. And you would be labor. Bush would have been management. You could also view the arrangement as the oppressors vs the opressees. You're an opressee. So am I, but the difference between the two of us is that you work to keep the opressors in their places of power, while I'm trying to get them off our backs.

In doing what I have to do (pointing out to both Dems and Reps that they're being used), I must necessarily comment on stories like the Texas schoolbook thing, which is of little or no importance in the larger scheme of things. "Your guy" is about to launch World War 3 and what are you focused on in the calm before the storm? Oh, yeah...textbooks and Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 10:22 PM

*sigh*...Ok..I can tell when I am getting nowhere trying to be relatively serious.

French: I SAID most sites...I saw the couple that were in English. And YOU make some amazing leaps from some supposed contracts to "starting World War 3"

It seems to me that IF munitions ARE indeed being positioned, that this has been part of military planning for centuries. I have NO idea IF it is in face true, what the intent is, or what might be the justification......while I DO see and hear every day what is going on in Texas, and hear from many sources the goals & stated justification of those perpetrating this nonsense.

You have a very pessimistic view of everything ANY government does, it seems, and it colors and distorts what you listen to and your understanding of what is 'data' and what is merely rumor and speculation.

I choose to give Obama the 'benefit of the doubt'...he says what I want to hear, whereas Bush did not. I choose to act as though Obama is not lying until I have some serious reason not to.

and... I also choose to no longer wear out my untrained, tender typing fingers trading remarks with someone who spells my degree 'filosopher' and makes cynical remarks instead of sticking to anything resembling the subject.

Go start a thread on Iran & WWIII.... maybe someone wants to nod wisely with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 10:29 PM

With the textbooks, more than Republican-vs-Democrat it's Evangelical Christian -vs-Everybody Else.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: ichMael
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 10:32 PM

Thank you for having the courage to admit you hear what you want to hear.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: ichMael
Date: 18 Mar 10 - 10:52 PM

Oh, sorry mousethief. Didn't see your post. I was responding to Mr. D.

Don't know about the Evangelical stuff. I live in TX and it must be half Hispanic now. Predominantly Roman Catholic. The Evangelicals get the air time because the national media wants to demonize Texas, for various reasons. Or so it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 06:58 AM

As far as I can remember, the original "Ishmael was shunned by everybody.

I begin to understand why.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 08:49 AM

"{"Teachers in Texas will be required to cover the Judeo-Christian influences of the nation's Founding Fathers"
    Got no issues with that! I may, or may not totally agree. It is the history though, and the truth shall set you free!}"




               I didn't think there were a lot of Jews involved in the founding of the United States. Maybe it was the text books we had back then.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 11:26 AM

BillD,

1. look out your side door 8-{E


2. Your statement is logically equivilent to the following- so I will accept NO critism of my statement.

"I choose to NOT give Obama the 'benefit of the doubt'...he says what I don't want to hear, whereas Bush did. I choose to act as though Obama is lying until I have some serious reason not to."

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 11:38 AM

Speaking of the Shrub - he would have been wiser to stay silent and let some think him a fool, rather than open his mouth and remove all doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 11:45 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States

It appears that none were Jewish, few were anything like the fundie nutters of the present day, and some were rationalists humanists and atheists.

Most were rich and sucessful.

Many were lawyers.

Very few were home educated.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas does it again- conservative books
From: pdq
Date: 19 Mar 10 - 11:55 AM

"I live in TX and it must be half Hispanic now. Predominantly Roman Catholic. The Evangelicals get the air time because the national media wants to demonize Texas, for various reasons." ~ ichMael

Well, in big round numbers, herez yer Texas demographics:

         45% White

         40% Mexican

         10% Black

          *5% "other"

*includes American Indians, Oriental folks, and everybody else, but I believe Jews, Arabs, Indians (from India), Pakistani, and other Caucasians are listed as part of "White", which makes the Mexicans the largest single ethnic group in Texas.