BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 08:00 AM

Ain't about libersl or conservative, Dougie... It's about:

A. A broken system of financing elections

B. A broken Seante where the minority rules and...

C. A dumber down population more interesting in personal consumption and the overall good for everyone and the nation on the whole...

B~

BTW, some well thought out points, Sawz.... Whatever pill that you took to get there you should continue taking... *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: DougR
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 01:21 AM

The Obama who ran for president is not the Obama who is president. Once elected, he, and his liberal cohorts in the House and the Senate believed they had a mandate to move the country in a direction that the majority of the population do not agree with. Legislation that was not popular with the majority of the population (but was popular with the majority party)was passed and now the majority party is in the deep hole they dug for themselves. The Republicans in congress had nothing to do with it, the Democrates did it to themselves. As a result, on November 2, 2009, the Democrates are going to be defeated, perhaps as never before, in the history of our country.

If that happens will I be pleased. You bet your booties!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Sawzaw
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 01:06 AM

LH:

People here in the US have fallen into the habit of drawing up sides and trying to overpower the other side.

This is being egged on by the media in order to make money. It could not be any clearer. It's in movies, games, TV, books, news papers. What the hell is not biased anymore.

Society works when people find out what they agree on and build from there. People everywhere want basically the same things.

There are very few people who purposefully want other people to be poor. Who would not like to see an end to slums and crime and the overall degradation of society brought on by poverty?

Who does not want education for everybody? Who does not want affordable health care for everybody?

People disagree on how to attain those goals. One side will claim that the other side does not want this or that even when they know it is not true. This is tribal attitude. "I have to go along with my side no matter what or we will not win against the other side"

Guess what the results of the battle are? Both sides lose.

Every person in the world has good points and bad points. Good ideas and bad ideas. You work with the good parts.

Maybe I am weird but I never feel distressed. I feel calm because I do not have to beat the shit out of "the other side" or I am doomed.

I think Obama has good intentions and he is a nice guy. He does not want anything bad for anybody. He is certainly not a racist.

It is the fact that his methods are not working. The people he has chosen are battlers. I think he is naive about what works and what does not work. He lacks experience.

I see him speaking to teachers one day and he has his left fist in the air saying he is going to fight for them. Then I see him talking to parents with his right fist in the air saying he is going to fight the teachers union.

Fight fight fight. There has to be a better way.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 10 - 12:51 AM

"As one person, how do you propose to make a difference at this apex of critical moments in the United Staes of America?"

That's a very fair question, Donuel. Being a Canadian, I'm not in a position to do anything about the USA...but...what I try to do to make a difference here is...I try to treat myself and others with kindness and respect and hopefully love, I try to look positively on each day as it comes, and I try to do some things that make me and other people happy each day. It seems to be working quite well for the most part. I wasn't always this attentive to my responsibilities to others, but I have become much moreso of late, given the fact that I realize life is short and I've already lived the lion's share of this particular life. So if I don't do these things now to make my life more positive I might run out of the chance to do them sooner than I think. You never know.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:18 PM

Unfortunate that Obama was selected over Hillary Clinton; she would have been much more adept at handling congressional opposition, and fringe groups would probably have been kept less influential.
Obama should withdraw in her favor in 2012. Otherwise a Republican is the likely outcome.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:14 PM

Term limits???

Yeah... The president should get one 6 year term...

Legislators???

House members??? 3 two year terms before running for the Senate... Or not...

Senate??? 3 four year terms...

Of course this would require a Constitutional amendment which are no longer possible...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:07 PM

While we could all lean forward and repair the deep systemic problems we face as a nation, the psychology of humanity and the power of greed does not bode well for success.

Demanding apologies, eating ones words, cease inflicting vicious delegitimzing attacks, is not in the cards but it would be instrumental in allowing gaping wounds to heal.

Instead the mob will probably stampede to take America back to Civil War issues, xenophomia, anarchist closure of goverment. One person can sometimes make a difference. IT has happend before.

As one person, how do you propose to make a difference at this apex of critical moments in the United Staes of America?

hmm?

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: DougR
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 09:59 PM

Really, Greg? Other than you, who have I attacked? And as far as "presesnting information that might support your statements", when have you ever done that?

I think term limits would be a good idea. The problem is determining what the term should be.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 06:53 PM

Greg F,

YOU don't need to constantly remind us that you have NO support for your opinions- since you insist on attacking those who disagree with you instead of presenting information that might support your statements.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 06:51 PM

"Healthcare is one of his tentative accomplishments which isn't relevant since it doesn't "kick in" right away."

It doesn't ALL kick in right away. My wife got that $250 refund re:the 'donut hole' this year, and will get approximately $2000 in savings next year as 50% of her name brand drugs will be paid by the manufacturer. THAT is a bit beyond a 'tentative' accomplishment, though it will be years before every benefit is available.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 06:41 PM

Douggie:

You don't need to constantly remind us that you're a jackass- we're well aware of itt.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 05:53 PM

The decline in Obama's popularity during the first 2 years of his administration is really quite typical of what happens with a great many American presidents, and it's very similar to what happened with Reagan's popularity in his first 2 years. (see charts in Wesley's post above)

Reagan's popularity was boosted shortly before the midterm elections in '83 by 2 events:

"1983 began for Reagan with a 35% job approval rating -- the worst of his administration -- (but then) things started to look better.

His ratings moved back above 50% by November 1983 -- not only because the economy was picking up, but also in part as a result of rally effects associated with the U.S. invasion of Grenada and the terrorist explosion that killed 241 American Marines in Beirut, Lebanon."

So, it is just as I said in my post above. To get low popularity ratings moving back up, an American president needs one of two things to happen: either some kind of attack by foreigners on Americans...or a noticeable improvement in the economy. Either of those two things can sometimes be adroitly arranged by an administration and strategically timed to affect a midterm election...or a presidential election...and they sometimes have been so arranged. It's much harder, though, to arrange an economic recovery than it is to arrange a military "crisis" involving some Third World nation...or a group of multi-national terrorists. The CIA and other covert agencies are in the business of arranging things like that when they are deemed expedient.

And that's not something new that America invented. Hell, no. ;-) Great military powers have been doing that sort of thing for thousands of years. It does wonders for promoting loyalty and patriotism.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Amos
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 03:26 PM

I think Barack Obama would be the first to say he did not run for office in order to seek approval.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 02:34 PM

PDQ - "Another factless statement from someone who doesn't ever bother to look farther than his prejudices for answers." and "Reagan had about 2/3 of the people on his side most of the time, and left with a big smile and a happy electorate."

Here are some Gallup poll numbers that compare Reagans and Obamas number from their second years in office. Reagans highest yearly rating was 60 percent.

"By the end of 1981, Reagan's job approval rating had drifted down to 49%. Things got worse for Reagan in 1982. The public's view of the economy remained sour, and the president's ratings during 1982 stayed concomitantly low, in the 40% range, ending the year at 41%."



Ronald Reagans job approval ratings


Obama's current job approval numbers

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 02:09 PM

Well said, Stringsinger. It's beyond me why on Earth Obama would have mired himself deeper in Afghanistan...but my guess is that he is merely, like all presidents, obeying the explicit wishes of the mighty military-industrial complex whose influence on national policy greatly outweighs his own.

As for Iraq, the USA has no intention on withdrawing from there. They have built a network of permanent huge military bases in that country and they are not leaving...merely attempting to fool the American electorate into imagining there has been some kind of withdrawal of the American presence there.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 01:43 PM

The largest grievous errors Obama has made is sending troops to Afghanistan, keeping them in Iraq (in spite of his claims to the contrary) and supporting Wall Street culture.

Healthcare is one of his tentative accomplishments which isn't relevant since it doesn't "kick in" right away. Republicans offer no solutions, period. They remain the party of "no" purely for adamant political partisanship which doesn't work in a pluralistic society or country.
The Astroturf "Tea Party" is run by the Koch's and Armey's and doesn't really reflect the will of the people. I think that you will see this in the next election.

This is what I think will happen. Republicans will make gains in Senate and House and
because of this, Obama will be elected in 2012.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 12:15 PM

The people who really might need term limits (or better yet, jail terms) imposed on them are the CEOs of some of the major banks and major corporations.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 12:09 PM

Ooops. Cross-Posted with Bill.

But the "term limits" shibboleth is still bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 12:09 PM

Heh! ;-D The vital thing to do, in the face of a life which is certainly never perfect, is to always maintain a sense of humour about it, and to find ways of enjoying your life despite the imperfections, and believing strongly in your own part in it.

Some presidents have had the ability to do all of that, and it served them well despite the rigors of high office. I don't envy them the job one bit, but there are some people who can handle that sort of thing pretty well.

pdq - The certain way to immense popularity in the USA is to somehow get someone else in the world to militarily attack the USA...or just be perceived to have done so. The American public then rallies around the flag and the president's popularity quickly goes through the roof as he bears down grimly and leads the nation off to war. The war then has to go well, of course....if it doesn't, his popularity will soon begin to fall drastically.

It's a risky business, but it's always the best and quickest gambit if one wishes to become popular.

The other way is to create a big improvement in the economy. That's not so easy as starting a war, but Reagan did it by irresponsibly de-regulating the major lending institutions and thereby creating a vast bubble of phony cash which naturally imploded some time later, and from which North America has never recovered to this day. But that took awhile. So Reagan did not have to pay politically for the catastrophic consequences of his actions. We are still facing those consequences now, and all the presidents since Reagan have been deeply complicit in creating the situation we are now facing. That includes both the Democrats and the Republicans. They don't work for the public. They work for the major banks and the major corporations...the biggest lobbyists, in other words. That's who runs America.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 12:07 PM

We have term limits in the U.S. They're called elections.

If folks are not happy with their representatives, all they have to do is get off their asses & vote 'em out.

The whole term limit BS is nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:58 AM

Term limits are a mixed blessing. Yes, we need to clear out some dead wood at times, but institutions like congress NEED competent, qualified members with some memory & experience of "how it all works".
I doubt that any of the proposed term limit ideas would achieve any real improvement in operational OR legislative procedure.

We have term limiting procedures NOW...it's called voting. What we need is a revised system about HOW one gets elected...including VERY comprehensive 'campaign finance reform' and complete overhaul of the primaries. Right now, honest, competent people with little money find it almost impossible to compete....and that new %$@%*$!! Supreme Court ruling about treating corporations as 'individuals' is already allowing anonymous money to be funneled to candidate who will be paid shills for corporate or international interests!

All 'term limits' would do is make it cheaper to buy new shills each time.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:51 AM

Dream on!


I can't say that I would NOT agree with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: pdq
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:50 AM

"My understanding is that both Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton had lower public approval numbers at this point in their respective terms. ~ WesS

Another factless statement from someone who doesn't ever bother to look farther than his prejudices for answers.

Reagan had about 2/3 of the people on his side most of the time, and left with a big smile and a happy electorate.

Obama is at 38% and falling, even though 91% of Blacks stiil say "right on!". He is the lowest rated president ever at this time in his term.

The lowest approval rate in the history of the US presidency was Harry Truman at 26%. Jimmy Carter the next lowest, followed by Bill Clinton.

Reagan always had the majority of the US people on his side, despite the daily bashing he takes here on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:47 AM

I agree, BB, that the Winona Ryder thing is...well...somewhat unlikely. ;-) But we all have our dreams.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:42 AM

I have suggested possible remedies for the national problems you face, Sawzaw...remedies that could make it a decent and honorable job being president of the USA, which it is not now.

Would you have wanted to be Chancellor of the Third Reich? Or the King of France just before the French Revolution? I don't think so. And neither would I.

Your present political order is so deeply corrupt that it's not worth it for any sane human being to take on the job of being its official head of state....still, some are either brave enough or foolish enough to do so...and all that proves is: if there IS a vacuum in Nature or anywhere else, something or someone will always step up to fill it.

Remember what Lincoln said: "A house divided against itself cannot stand." Your national house is bitterly divided against itself because of the Democratic and Republican Parties! And that is what is poisoning the political dialogue in America and driving people to extremism and hatred. Those partie machines are the enemies of the American public. They do NOT honestly represent the people who naively vote for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:34 AM

"My personal suggestion for ending it is term limits. The Senate was not meant to be a life time guarantee of employment/power. Nor was the house"

Absolutely agreed!!!



"restrict campaign funding to a public purse that funds EVERY candidate running with an EQUAL (and quite modest) amount of funding and media airtime."

Ok, but this means that Obama might well have lost- as was noted, the person spending more money has genearlly won, and Obama spent something like twice what McCain did.




"to date Winona Ryder on a regular basis "

Less likely!

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:30 AM

My understanding is that both Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton had lower public approval numbers at this point in their respective terms. And BOTH managed to get reelected.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 11:24 AM

"Recent polls show that the popular views of the Obama administration are: not very popular."

If you read the polls 1½-2 years ago, you find that the majority WANTED what Obama said he'd try to deliver. When he tried, the Republicans blocked everything except some watered down versions. Then the Republicans used their own 'successes' in stopping Obama's attempts to get things like comprehensive health care to trumpet Obama's 'relative' failure.

Now the **polls** are showing that people are....yes.... dissatisfied with what they GOT, and the picture is being distorted by Republicans who are the reason why so much was not passed. It got so bad that many Republicans actually voted against ideas THEY had originally been for, in order to show Obama 'failing'.

....and then you get crap like Jim DeMint stopping ALL Senate progress in order to keep anything from happening until after the elections!

I assume, Doug, that YOU think those tactics are fair and clever?

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Sawzaw
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:59 AM

LH:

Right, Why would anybody want to be president? Maybe we need an AI program to run things and we can all blame an inanimate object for not solving all of the insolvable problems.

But then the tribalists would start saying the other side wrote the flawed program just to screw us and benefit them.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 10:08 AM

My personal suggestion for ending it is to abolish the Democrat and Republican parties and all other damn political parties too, run nothing but independents in future...NO party power structures in place to manipulate and control the politicians and the people...restrict campaign funding to a public purse that funds EVERY candidate running with an EQUAL (and quite modest) amount of funding and media airtime....abolish the Electoral College as well...abolish gerrymandering so the politicians in office can't play those kind of manipulative games with the vote...abolish all corporate and private funding of political campaigns so the rich can't manipulate the process...and restrict the length of a presidential campaign to 3 months (like a Canadian election).

And while I'm at it, I'd also like to date Winona Ryder on a regular basis and ride a sightseeing spaceship to Venus! ;-D I figure the chances of either plan happening are about the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: SINSULL
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 09:45 AM

Many of us are disgusted with politics as usual in Washington. What else is new?
I am reeling at the scandal involving Alan Hevesy in NY. He was one of the good guys. Sigh.
Health Care reform is long over due. The Republicans did not have to have it rammed down their throats. As usual, partisan politics prevented our leaders from doing what is best for their constituents. Once again, they worried more about being elected than about legislation that would benefit all. The health bill is not ideal. It is the best that could have come out of the bickering at my/our expense.
Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have anything to be proud of.
This same "get re-elected" priority got us into Iraq. It will get us out at a horrible cost.
My personal suggestion for ending it is term limits. The Senate was not meant to be a life time guarantee of employment/power. Nor was the house.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 09:26 AM

Douggie-

we're all well aware that you've had a bug up your ass about health care reform and that you subscribe to the "Pull up the laddder, I'm aboard" philosophy of justice and equity.

We don't need to hear it all again, warmed over.

Why don't you just go back & review your past BuShite bullshit for your own entertainment & save the rest of us the trouble?

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 09:12 AM

And yet...they keep finding people who actually seem to want to be president!!!!!!! I don't know if that's funny...or if it's just downright sad...but you really have to wonder.

It's like putting your head in the lion's mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 09:07 AM

Doug, the real key to becoming enormously unpopular at this time is simply this:

Get elected!!! Then wait 6 months to a year. You WILL become very unpopular. People's opinion of you will sink like a rock.

I'm not going to bother explaining to you why that is, because you probably wouldn't want to hear it. ;-D

But try it. Get elected. Then wait and see.....the shit will hit the fan, and you will be in it up to your ears and maybe right over your head. And you'll wonder just what hit you.

Subject: BS: Unpopular Views of Obama Administration
From: DougR
Date: 12 Oct 10 - 01:37 AM

I peeked in on Amos's original thread titled the "Popular Views of the Administration, and thought it might be more appropriate to start a new thread reflecting the actual views of the majority of Americans about the administration.

I predicted months ago when his administration, and the Democratic controlled congress rammed Obama Care through with no Republican support that the Novemeber elections would prove to be disastrous for both the administration, and the Democratic Party.

Recent polls show that the popular views of the Obama administration are: not very popular.

DougR