BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?

Subject: BS: Is Geoge Osborne Brainless?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 07:31 AM

I have just heard on the radio Osborne plans to (1) Fine claimants for making mistakes filling in forms, and (2)stop benefits for three years for those who fraudulently claim benefits.

I am not suggesting that benefit fraud is acceptable, but, I am surprised, (actually not surprised) that a cabinet minister is incapable of thinking through the implications of policy.

(1) From my limited mathematical skills, the amount of food that can be purchased for £0.00 is err... none. Does that mean that the Condems plan to exterminate children of benefit fraudsters?

(2) On the assumption that benefit fraudsters and there families will need some food over three years, will the Comdemns guarantee a job for every benefit fraudster, and also guarantee a job for every other person. So how will the government both cut and expand the public sector at the same time?

(3) In the event of more people turning to serious crime in order to eat, i.e. mugging, drug pushing, burglary, etc. will the condmns publish the names and addresses of their supports to be preferred crime victims?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Geoge Osborne Brainless?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 07:47 AM

Does he react to standard stimuli?

For instance, what would he do if an ice cold poker were suddenly inserted in his rectum?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Geoge Osborne Brainless?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 07:49 AM

I had to laugh out loud about this, even through my anger, because not long before I heard this, the news folk had been talking about three peers who'd fraudulently stolen hundreds of thousands of pounds from the taxpayers in the MP Claims Fiasco...They're being made to pay the money back and have been suspended for 3 months.

So that's OK then...they just get that, whilst 'the people' get 3 years of punishment?

As for this part..

"Fine claimants for making mistakes filling in forms"

He can fine me whatever he wants, I'll sue him for penalising and discriminating against people with dyslexia, because forms make my head spin, and I so often have to re-write them....I struggle to put letters into 'boxes' on forms, makes my brain go nuts..so my forms end up looking very untidy and crossed out..

The Little Hitlers are getting way above themselves.

I suggest they spend time turning in their own Tribe rather than getting Joe Public to turn in his Neighbour...

Big Society?????? My arse!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Geoge Osborne Brainless?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 07:51 AM

Red Hot, Little Hawk, if you don't mind...ice cold is way too good for these weasels... ;0)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Geoge Osborne Brainless?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 07:51 AM

Oh damn, the post eating monster is at it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Geoge Osborne Brainless?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 08:20 AM

From aol's page...

"Repeat benefit cheats will have their welfare payments halted for up to three years as part of a tough new crackdown announced by Chancellor George Osborne.

And the Chancellor said that every wrongful claim for benefits - including avoidable errors made when filling out forms - will in future be punished by a £50 fine.

Comparing the cheats to muggers robbing taxpayers of their hard-earned money, Mr Osborne said Britain "can't afford to waste any more time" in reducing a £5 billion annual bill for fraud and error in the benefit and tax credit system.

The new crackdown, to be formally launched tomorrow, will include mobile hit squads of inspectors being sent to areas where the problem is rife. A "three-strikes-and-you're-out" rule will strip repeat offenders of benefits for up to three years.

And some 200 additional inspectors are to be recruited to a new investigation service, which will detect the patterns of fraudulent activities by looking at shared data from government offices and credit reference agencies.

Investigators will also aim to seize more of the assets of those found guilty of benefit fraud.

Mr Osborne told BBC1's Andrew Marr Show that the tough new rules were "perfectly reasonable", adding: "We have a benefits system. I want it to be on a sustainable footing for the long term, but it has to go to the people who need it, because the people who pay for it demand no less."

The Chancellor has said that bringing down the welfare bill will play a crucial role in easing the impact of state spending cuts as he tries to pay down Britain's structural deficit over the coming four years.

Fraud in the benefit and tax credit system is estimated to cost the taxpayer around £1.5 billion a year, while a further £3.5 billion is accounted for by errors by officials or claimants.

Mr Osborne told the News of the World: "This is a fight. We are really going to go after the welfare cheats."


I'm sooooooooo looking foward to them rounding up all the Wanker Bankers and the Politicians and making them pay back every single penny they've stolen from us! (yeah, right)

And today they were saying on BBC Breakfast News that politicians used to be able to claim around £86 a day for their second home expenses, even if they never lived there..but now they've brought in new rules where they can only claim up to £300 a week...

So that's OK then....sigh....

The guy speaking about it, can't remember his name, said it was a Cheat's Charter...

What a surprise, huh?

I'm off to continue making a practice Guillotine... ;0)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Geoge Osborne Brainless?
From: Stu
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 08:34 AM

No, he's not brainless but the's no great or original thinker either. He just could't give a toss for a large proportion of the population as he can't relate to their lives at all. He's far more interested in keeping the fat cats in their kitty litter happy than the proles looked after down there in the mud.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Geoge Osborne Brainless?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 09:08 AM

Steals from the poor, gives to the rich...

Stupid bitch!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Geoge Osborne Brainless?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 09:16 AM

This is a TORY government, the Lib Dems will do as they are told by their paymasters, that is their price of office.

I'm sure no one is under any illusion that under a Tory goverment it's always the poor and worse off in society that will pay.

They will let their rich banker friends get away with anything they want, Thatcher started it ' greed is good ' in fact it's probably changed now to ' greed is god '

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Is Geoge Osborne Brainless?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 09:36 AM

On the other side of the balance sheet what will be the cost to victims of crime where this becomes the last resort of those who have no other means to sustain themselves. Will the fat cats give up the keys to their gated estates so that those who are on lower incomes don't bear the brunt of the impact of the policies?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Geoge Osborne Brainless?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 10:33 AM

Such talk leads to revolution.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Geoge Osborne Brainless?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Oct 10 - 10:39 AM

Politicians who make solemn pledges when running for elections, and then trash them once they are elected and do things they have promised not to do should surely be classed as fraudulent claimants: "I pledge to vote against any increase in fees in the next parliament."

As for "efforts to catch ... tax cheats" the worst offenders here are at the heart of government, or bankrolling the Tory party.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 12:49 AM

I have just heard on the radio Osborne plans to (1) Fine claimants for making mistakes filling in forms, and (2)stop benefits for three years for those who fraudulently claim benefits.

It is the first four words of this that are the most significant. Because what follows is incorrect as points 1) & 2) are linked.

Claimants deliberately supplying false information on forms - not simply making a mistake on a form.

And 2) of course ommitted the word "repeatedly" actually stated by Osborne.

The big problem is people repeating what they heard inaccurately, what they thought they heard, what was reported as having been said as opposed to reading or listening to what actually was said.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 03:25 AM

Express on the subject

New Statesman

Talktalk

Please note - the £50 fine can apply to any "avoidable error". Well, as a matter of logic any error can be avoided - but benefit claimants are probably less likely to be Vulcans and so more likely to error. And I am quite sure that the benefit Gestapo will take a different view of what is "avoidable" from that taken by the ordinary, and even more different from the less able.

This is a disgusting piece of bullying. It will discourage those entitled to benefits from taking them up, and unclaimed benefits already exceed incorrectly claimed benefits by a large margin.

But more, incorrectly claimed benefits are a drop in the ocean beside tax avoidance and evasion. Do we see an equivalent attack on "avoidable errors" made by the rich? No? Well there's a surprise, isn't there?

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 05:12 AM

No, George Osborne is not brainless - he an ideologist, i.e. one who chooses to switch off parts of his brain in order to make all of his thinking conform to a narrow and restricted model of reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Silas
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 05:53 AM

Hi Eric

Where do you get the idea that mtability cars are free?

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 08:39 AM

Quoting from Osborne himself:

"This is a fight. We are really going to go after the welfare cheats. Frankly, a welfare cheat is no different from someone who comes up and robs you in the street."   Source New Statesman.

and referring back to my original statement:

my question is what guarantee is DWP prepared to make to ensure that those that lose benefits will not rob people in the street to make up for loss in benefits. My line comes from someone who has been mugged 5 times, one time having my face kicked.

It is all very well for those who are driven around in the chauffeur driven limos.

And my other question is what safeguards will be put in place for the children of those that have benefits stopped?

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 10:20 AM

Everyone knows that the tories have always detested the idea of anyone getting something for nothing, this especially applies to people unfortunate enough to be claiming any form of state benefit, BUT they are well content to let their rich friends get away with not paying millions in UK taxes at the same time as persecuting benefit claimants for a few measly pounds.

The tories hate the working class and will always take any opportunity to punish them every time they are in power.


Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Zen
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 10:27 AM

I am not in a position to medically verify the original question but certainly what he is doing is calculated and not likely to benefit the majority of the population.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Arnie
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:47 AM

I hope Osborne includes the three peers in his rant about benefit cheats. One of them built a mansion in her home country on the back of fraudulently claimed expenses from the Lords kitty. Two of the peers are multi-millionaires but still saw fit to claim a few hundred thousand in fraudulent expenses. Today I hear that these three crooks are claiming that UK courts have no jurisdiction to hear cases relating to expenses claimed by peers. What a bloody cheek!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: s&r
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 11:55 AM

I think in common with the rest of the panicking headless chickens currently in government that George is probably brainless.

The whole principle of this unprincipled mob is to find someone to blame for anything that the public might not like. This one is 'let's blame the scroungers and make them pay'

I suspect the number of scroungers is rather less than the government guestimates, and unlikely to result in any saving that is remotely worth while.

I feel for the families of these unidentified scroungers.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 01:00 PM

Erik - are you brain dead too?

"Mistakes" are not cheating.

"Avoidable mistakes" is a description that is a passport to persecution.

Pregnant female teenagers are unlikely to be accommodated by their parents - if they got on well with them they wouldn't be where and who they are. You've been reading the Daily Mail again, and you've not been reading the housing statistics.

And targetting those vulnerable people, where it will harm them, will reap nothing like the benefits of the equivalent effort on collecting all tax due. A few simple legal principles would fix the tax planning black hole: -

1. Transactions will be taxed as if they had been done the simplest way and all money moving had done so in the UK. That will end about 90% of tax schemes.
2. Legal advisers and accountants advising on tax schemes that fail to be jointly and severally liable for the tax clawed back and pursued through foreign courts if necessary.
3. Tax advisers trained by the Inland Revenue who leave and earn more than double their HMCS final salary to repay the HMCS assessment of their training costs (like student loans, really - but there should be no cap - the more they earn as "tax advisers" the more they pay back into the public purse on top of income tax).

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 01:39 PM

the tories have always detested the idea of anyone getting something for nothing

Be fair - they have never been against rich people getting something for nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Acorn4
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 02:31 PM

I would think bankers' speculation and bonuses was like someone robbing you in the street.

I think Ozzie Osbourne would do a better job.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Anne Lister
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 03:52 PM

I've been getting more and more perplexed about what will happen to those whose jobs disappear in all the public service economies, if benefits are also being slashed and no one is lending any money to businesses so that even the private sector can't expand. Where exactly are the long-term and the newly created unemployed supposed to find work? Or money?
Why are bankers still being awarded bonuses, when a major factor in the current financial unpleasantness is because of the mis-management of banking?
If George Osborne has a brain, it's really time it was taken out of its box and used to join up a few facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 05:31 PM

Anne - he doesn't care, because they are not his sort of people who will suffer.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 06:47 PM

It isn't that this kind of stuff saves that much money, but it serves to identify useful scapegoats, and divert attention from the party's friends who are ripping us all off on a vastly greater scale.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Oct 10 - 09:27 PM

That's very conceptually like Hitler's portrayal of Jewry as the cause of damage to Germany: the creation of accessible demons against which to rail.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 03:21 AM

Osborne knows exactly what he is doing, the tories never change, now they have got the help of the fuckwits, sorry, Lib/Dems.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 04:41 AM

Shadow Chancellor Alan Johnson yesterday called for higher taxes and billions of pounds of extra public spending to pull Britain out of the economic mire ! What a fool.


He said Labour would use a formula of 60 per cent spending cuts and 40 per cent tax rises to tackle the deficit, rather than the ­Coalition's 80/20. For every pound raised in tax hikes, the Coalition will make £4 of spending cuts. Under Labour's new formula every pound in extra taxes would see just £1.50 in cuts – implying much higher taxes in the long run.

It clearly shows Labour was still 'in denial' over the scale of the deficit run up by the last government. With comments like this it's not hard to see why Labour aren't in power any longer (Thank you God)

Labour have always left government with an economic mess for others to clean up, so I don't really need to listen to someone drone on that hasn't got a clue about money matters - or anything else really.

He ought to sit back, pick up the nice salary he's getting then go off skiing or on an extended holiday or something instead of trying to play to people like "Citizen Smith" Richard or have a swift half in a working mans club trying to one of the lads. He failed as a student, he failed as an employee, he failed as a member of parliament and he failed as a minister.



Ed Milliband and his circus is the biggest gift we could ever wish for. Tax tax tax and spend spend spend, That's exactly what the Labour Party did for the 13 years when they were in power, and that's why the the country is in such a financial mess today. This government is doing an excellent job, I look forward to their announcement tomorrow regarding those leeching of us on benefits. Personally, would like to see cuts in housing benefit and Incapacity.


It amazes me how many here Knocked Labour when thy were in power, now you attack the new government ! You can't have it both ways. Maybe you would prefer to go back to the days of Callaghan and Healey. They saw the way forward as taxing, to quote Healey "squeeze the rich until the pips squeak". Well they did and the tax RATE went up, unfortunately the tax TAKE went down. This happens every time the left implement punitive taxes yet they never learn, the saddest thing is that it appears that the electorate don't either because they elect them again.

The new Labour front bench do not seem to understand that it is the behaviour of their fore runners in Government that got us here. Tax, borrow and spend has been the mantra of Labour since 1945 and they don't look like changing any time soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 05:02 AM

Yes, I reckon Osborne could be brainless. I doubt it, but he could be.

I don't agree with his argument, or at least the main thrust of it, but I also appreciate he has to balance between pragmatic solutions and keeping those who pay for influence happy. Political parties represent their doners and the media, specifically newspaper editors. If you want to know what decisions they will make, follow the money.

My main problem with their slash and burn idea is that the landscape has indeed altered. We are not a manufacturing nation any more. We have a symbiosis between public and private sector, one feeding off the other and the much maligned city providing the readies.

Our new MP (Tory, kicked out the Labour dude,) was in the small market town next to our village the other day, being interviewed about how small businesses thrive there, and how the private sector is so wonderful.

Now... follow the money again. We moved here because my responsible adult is a doctor, and all the other doctors at the hospital tend to live here. Ditto many of my colleagues in government bodies. In fact, nearly all the higher earners with free cash to support the twee craft shops and cafes the MP rattles on about depend on public sector higher earners to survive.

At another level, cancelling spending means less contracting to. Oh, the private sector. If the road expansion plans are put on ice, it means they can lose 200 people in Dept of Transport. Good headline till you factor in the thousands of lost jobs in civil engineering, in the wonderful private sector they hold so dear.

I co owned and ran manufacturing companies till I retired (and started interfering in Government bodies) and was always rattling about how bloated the public sector was. We could as a nation increase wealth then. However, now we have the same money sloshing around from public to private and back again with occasional pump priming by the city and investment in innovation; the only product we can sell. at least for now, it will be some time before the rape of higher education causes the devastation it is saving for us...

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 05:25 AM

Putting the standard rate of income tax back to the level it used to be, say under Thatcher, would make it possible to reduce significantly the level of cuts to public services.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 07:15 AM

"That's exactly what the Labour Party did for the 13 years when they were in power, and that's why the the country is in such a financial mess today."

And then there were the bankers f***ing up the financial system with their reckless and rapacious greed ... Oh, but they don't count, do they? We can't dump all the blame on them and punish them like we can 'benefits cheats' and lowly scum like that. Besides bankers are high status individuals ... so they must know what they're doing (possibly?). I know, let's bash the poor and just give the wise and generous bankers and their tax-dodging, non-dom, Fat Cat 'wealth-creating' chums the 'freedom' to get us out of 'this mess'.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: KHNic
Date: 19 Oct 10 - 07:15 PM

I note Cllr is conspicuous by his absence on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 07:03 PM

No Shimrod, let's do it YOUR WAY!

Let's impose heavy punitive taxes on the bankers, and raise taxes on all those who you would consider rich.

Then we can watch them all piss off abroad with their money, which they can quite easily do at the drop of a hat.

That way we can all pat ourselves on the back, and congratulate ourselves on doing the right thing, while watching the financial services industry, which supplies most of this country's income, sink without trace.

Bloody clever that!....."We're fucked, but we sure showed them who is in charge".

It's pathetic.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 07:48 PM

Then we can watch them all piss off abroad with their money, which they can quite easily do at the drop of a hat.

Only if we let them do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 01:32 AM

We don't need to let them piss off abroad with all their money...
All of their money is already abroad!

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 03:30 AM

Who abolished exchange control so that they could spirit their money away abroad?

Thatcher.

And the two great "tiger" economies, China and India - do they have exchange control?

Er - yes!

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 04:18 AM

Yes we do need the bankers, as popular as it is to malign them, we need what they represent. When Osborne's plan announced yesterday goes through, we will not have queues at airports of bankers with one way tickets after all. Brain drain is an overstated fear. Successive governments have tried destroying research, higher education and innovation, (whilst rattling on about protecting them.) Cambridge is still the white heat of the furnace and other British universities are leading the way in scientific research.

However, what our higher earning bankers are failing to appreciate is that more people (and politicians) are realising that their art is no longer exclusive. Software algorithms do buying and selling faster and with more factors weighed up than stock brokers could ever do. A bit like how drummers must have felt come the '80s....   Looking good on stage but having a beer whilst the machine lays the studio tracks.

banking will always be needed and their boards will never be house trained. Sad but a fact. Live with it. The same boards are exploring ways of doing away with the high earners on the floor at the same time as media and the general public malign them.

Interesting times ahead. Osborne did at least acknowledge the issue of hitting benefits without hitting the banks, and regardless of what anybody thinks of the government, he did acknowledge this and announced measures to rake more in.

(Just out of interest, if a bank pays out huge bonuses, the treasury get 50% of it back in income tax. If they don't a bank can squirrel it abroad or hide it. Ironically, taxpayers do better by bonuses being paid, as income tax is more transparent, especially PAYE.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 04:25 AM

money and the brains to protect money, he's got.... a heart he ain't got... nor a soul.

Mr Osborne is heir to a 17th-century baronetcy and to the Osborne & Little wallpaper fortune, made by his father

little turd had the audacity in June to say there should be a cut in inheritance tax and daddy's fortune is now placed in protected trust according to the Dispatches report this week.

he is a filthy piece of work

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10343316

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 04:52 AM

"money and the brains to protect money, he's got.... a heart he ain't got... nor a soul.

Mr Osborne is heir to a 17th-century baronetcy and to the Osborne & Little wallpaper fortune, made by his father

little turd had the audacity in June to say there should be a cut in inheritance tax and daddy's fortune is now placed in protected trust according to the Dispatches report this week.

he is a filthy piece of work"


Absolute socialist rubbish from you and the rest for your little clique.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 05:18 AM

"Mr Osborne is heir to a 17th-century baronetcy and to the Osborne & Little wallpaper fortune, made by his father

little turd had the audacity in June to say there should be a cut in inheritance tax and daddy's fortune is now placed in protected trust according to the Dispatches report this week."

Fact. Like it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 05:28 AM

"he is a filthy piece of work"

He certainly is and as for the fascist outburts from Jeremey Hunt about poor people not having children (I emailed him and told him so - hasn't replied)...just shows the colour of this tawdry government. The most worrying think is that they don't even seem to understand the basic economic principles of business - you have to create income to survive!

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 05:46 AM

"and as for the fascist outburts from Jeremey Hunt about poor people not having children"

Absolutely correct - they shouldn't have children if they can't afford them, why should they be supported by the state if their brains are in their trousers - and their 42" plasma TV screens??

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 05:47 AM

This "little clique" is merely a tiny fraction of a growing number of disenfranchised. Expect to see and hear more of the things you don't like from people you fear want to take something away from you.

If you don't like what you read, go somewhere else. This thread is not about you or me for that matter. It is about something much bigger. It is about a growing number of grumblers who will eventually stop grumbling and do something huge and radical.

This "little clique" is just one of the many mouthpieces of an imminent revolution.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 05:54 AM

Boko, I wouldn't expect an accountant to know anything about economics (or real life, for that matter) - in fact, from the businesses I've run I know that it's the bean counters who are usually the ones who are the barrier to success. So, as usual. I'll take your opinions with a pinch of salt.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 06:09 AM

Can we take those 1st class holidays B3legs is always boasting about? Literally? We can donate them to elderly people who have never been on holiday.

I think possibly this new government may be hoping for a revolution to quell, so they can "appear" to be (even more) taking the moral high ground. gakkk... the terms con dem government and moral high ground don't half stick in the craw....

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 02:13 PM

I work in management accounting for charities, community groups and social enterprises, and I like to think I have some knowledge of socio-economics!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: BTNG
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 04:44 PM

"Such talk leads to revolution."

and this is a bad thing?

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 04:47 PM

Not necessarily, BTNG.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: BTNG
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 05:07 PM

Memo to Bonzo3legs;

do your homework sunshine, check your facts before shooting off at the mouth about things you quite obviously no nothing about!

BTNG
(Bollocks To Nick Griffin)

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 05:46 PM

Some of you ,many in fact,are holding up the Labour Party as paragons of virtue. Are you thinking of the same Labour Party that appointed a card-carrying member of the British Communist Party ( Denis Healey) to the position of Minister of Defence at the height of the "Cold War" ?? The same Labour Party that DEVALUED THE POUND ?? I remember waking up one day to be told the pound in my pocket was worth less because it had been de-valued by the (Labour) government.The same government then made it a criminal offence to leave the country,even just to go on holiday, with more than fifty quid...or was twenty-five? It wasn't much,anyway !!
             Well, I don't want to live through that madness ever again,or see Trades Unions bringing the country to its knees at the personal whim of despot union leaders,thankyou. Where was Gordon Brown the other day ,when the austerity measures were read out ?? He wasn't in the House of Commons,where he SHOULD have been; apparently,he's only been seen there TWICE since he lost the election,so that doesn't say much for him (or Labour) ,does it ?? And who sold ALL of our gold reserves when gold was at its lowest price??
    It's not George that's brainless, it's Labour supporters !

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 05:36 PM

You dirty Rat.

1. Good
2. You're the capitalist - do the sums.
3. No, you have the quote wrong. It was Harold Wilson. "This does NOT mean that the pound in your pocket is worth less" . Which was true so long as you did not spend it on imports. Go and look it up.
4. Bloody right. If we had exchange control (abolished by the bitch) we would be far less in thrall to wankers. The new tiger economies have it.
5. Rather the unions than the adolescent aristos running the condms (indeed running the condms up our arses) and busy on robbing the poor to give to the rich.

Thank Christ the French still have some balls. Up against the wall, motherfucker.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 10:44 AM

yet another revolution eh?

You were all promising that when I first started going to folk clubs. Changing the world by going upstairs in pubs, lighting candles on tables, drinking beer and singing about reed cutting in Norfolk.

Smash the system!!!

Sorry, but Robin Hood wasn't a socialist, Osborne isn't on a hidden agenda to reintroduce serfdom.

As a striking miner, I saw many things that were wrong, and you know what? I soon realised thatcher and Scargill were two sides of the same coin. From that time on, I couldn't nail my flag to any ideological mast.

One good thing about France is that once they have had enough, the authorities will disperse the buggers with tear gas and water cannons. I doubt the French government have the best approach to the financial situation but if anarchy was to win, the first thing that would happen is that the wall everybody is up against will be wider with more posts than you thought.

All this talk of revolution; growing old disgracefully is a fun concept but doesn't aid debate other than to make me feel I should find some grown ups to debate with...

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: BTNG
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 04:40 PM

Richie Black and his sort showed me their true colours with an internal message which reads as follows:

"Listen cunt, If you have nothing to offer this thread, just shut to fuck up. Accept the fact that this government is not prepared to listen to seed eaters, tree huggers or arseholes in unwashed woolen jumpers.

Now fuck off.

Richie"

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 05:26 PM

Willie, of course GO is not on a mission to reintroduce serfdom.   A lord had responsibility for his serfs.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 05:49 PM

Prats...you vote for capitalism.....take what they dole out, or condemn it!

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 05:55 PM

Well, I voted for the least capitalistic of them. TWNA. If I didn't vote forelock tuggers and telegraph readers would have it all their own way. I don't mention the daily wail since I am doubtful of the reading capability of purchasers.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 05:28 AM

Richard - you voted. Therefore you accept the outcome. if you don't accept democracy, it is rather silly voting as this gives the system credibility. Doesn't mean you have to agree, you don't have to even like, but acceptance of a system includes acceptance of an outcome.

An old friend John Wells recently died. (Thread in main section.) He was the first person I heard say "Don't vote! it only encourages the buggers." He also once informed me that it doesn't matter who you vote for, you get the government. Good knockabout fun, and he possibly meant it. But if there is a better alternative to democracy, then somebody show me the blueprint please.

Akenaton. - Stop saying things that are not 100% opposite to my stance. you are confusing me.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 05:44 AM

Just because a government is democrarically elected, it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be held to sccount for its actions. If the public blindly accept policies and actions, there is nothing to stop them, if they so desire to raking more extreme actions.

History tells us, as recent as the last century, what can happen when extreme parties have been elected and were allowed to continue thier actions unchecked.

I am not saying that the Condemns are the same, but if actions and policies hurt those who are least ale to stand up for themselves, then those of us with a conscience have the right to voice our opinions, and say what we think is unacceptable, so hopefully when the opportunity to make our democratic voice heard, enough people remember the actions.

With regards to the next level, i.e. direct action, this has an effect of those MPs in marginal constituences to put pressure on their executives to moderate their policies/actions.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: s&r
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 05:57 AM

Democracy is a difficult term to define. I do find it difficult to accept that choosing between teams of politicians to somehow represent my interests is in any way democratic.

It is a bit like kneecapping someone, but offering them the choice of left knee right knee or somewhere in between.

Taking part in a system means to me reluctant acquiescence rather than acceptance.

I can't think of any government which is democratic. Having said that I'm not sure that I would like democracy if it ever happened

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 08:23 AM

Perhaps I should have stated the obvious whilst I was at it.

Democracy is all about holding to account. They have a maximum term, (fixed term if they get it through,) to convince us they are working adequately. if not, the ballot box awaits.

Any action other than the ballot box is not acceptable.

During office, democracy may be a moveable beast, but the citizens are watching, listening and when ready will use their vote.

Mind you, not sure anybody saw this government as a viable consequence of the election. Democracy ain't perfect, but coalitions are an outcome that can happen under our system. We don't tend to like them, even though this is by no means the first, even in living memory. As an electorate, we are used to and therefore generally more comfortable with "first past the post." This doesn't give a majority government by votes, just by seats. With 60,000,000 people, most of whom eligible to vote, anybody allowed to stand if they have a few friends and a deposit, I doubt you could ever get over 50% of the electorate behind you;

But I repeat; if there is any system that is fair to everybody, let's hear it.

oh, and everybody includes the Bullingdon club, Barnsley Socialist Alliance, fat cats and armchair socialists of the type I see at folk clubs whom I take the piss out of in my act.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 08:25 AM

Willie seems we agree on some things and disagree on others...nothing unusual about that.

I don't really understand your political stance, as appears pretty mixed up...do you agree with global capitalism, the free market economy or not? its all very unclear.
I suppose you are just trying to make some sense out of being a supporter of the system.

On other issues, it disgusts me that some people define themselves politically by their stance on sexual orientation.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 09:05 AM

The outcome of an election is generally decided by a handful of marginal constituencies, so called middle-England, who are more out of touch with he poverty suffered in deprived inner-cities communities. The Tories work on the assumption that they will never be overwhelmingly supported by the inner-cities, the same way that Labour do not count on the support of the Shires.

Because of this, both far-ends of the spectrum has government imposed on them, according to who is in power. Their votes will not determine who gains power.

Also is it reasonable to say to someone in a care home that they have to live with the consequences of the election outcome, and that they need to just suffer quietly, and if they are still alive in 5 or 6 years time, then they might get the allowance back.

Campaigning and advocacy are both about giving a voice to those who are powerless, and quite rightly has to happen to attempt to right wrongs in society, not just around election, but all the time, no matter who is in power.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 09:16 AM

And it took the French Revolution - which is pretty much direct action, to lay the foundations of the welfare state.

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 10:30 AM

I think there is some truth in the theory that we get the government we deserve.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: BTNG
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 10:48 AM

Who was it who said "It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in"?

Subject: RE: BS: Is George Osborne Brainless?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 04:05 AM

BTNG, scroll up a couple of entries, I credited an old friend with it, but I suppose somebody has it in an entry in the book of quotes...

Akenaton, I am not surprised you don't know where I stand. I have not put forward my views one way or the other. I am trying to make sense of a system, yes, but one thing that is not broken is that in this system you can support the system without supporting those running it.

No government has fully been on song with my views, and I doubt any government is in tune with anybody else's. Even cabinet thrash out differing views before promoting a consensus.

Whilst never having been a politician or a member of any party, I have been involved in Westminster politics. I have chaired public sector bodies and was a special advisor to a Minister for a while, so perhaps my appearance of cautious contentment with a system is having seen where and how the brakes are applied, how pragmatism creeps out once the loud mouths and spin doctors have fed the belly of public opinion and how every mainstream party could easily make and push through a key policy of the opposition. (This unholy alliance being a good example.)

In fact, my only vitriol is towards Thatcher and her legacy.

Oh, well done with the final sentence Akenaton, anything less would have disappointed me.