BS: Students march against tuition fees UK

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:09 PM

CS - definitely laugh out loud. That final sentence is a masterpiece of single entendre!

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,crowsister
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:10 PM

I have mixed feelings. On the one hand I have no personal objection to the destruction of one measly office building symbolically 'housing' those who desire to destroy education (and thus any kind of genuine social & political power) for anyone other than the very wealthy. I object to it as a media faux pass, and one that may be outdated. My anxieties about "anarchist" actions are: too much too soon. My belief is that this is an age of media and information, these are the weapons to use most effectively, the time of violent protest may still be with us when appropriate - but lets explore the other opportunities afforded dissidents here and now. Mass propaganda is in the hands of the right wing. Bar the internet. As a woman, I fear premature events seed nothing except more aggressive barriers.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:31 PM

This thread is drifting very strangely...

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 11:27 AM

Doncaster's got GILFs! :^0

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:59 AM

Well kids in Doncaster are having babies at 14 so it is well possible :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:53 AM

"No offence, but wow... "Day and age like this.."   You realise of course there are people say in Doncaster who are grandparents who were not even born when Lennon died? (Monday 8 December 1980 at 10..00pm local time, he says without even looking, and showing his age at the same time.)"


I realize it's biologically possible, but wow...29 year old grannies! Get a lot of them over there do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:35 AM

Wrong Bonzo. You snort. Or maybe grunt.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:12 AM

Heard a great Who gig from 1980 this morning with Kenney Jones drumming............ah, wrong forum...........still similar crap being discussed - I laugh!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 09:18 AM

Check your keyboard, Ritchie . You may need to wipe some froth off it.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 09:14 AM

Oh I don't know, Richard. My kids are getting increasingly expensive (especially the one at uni) - anyone want to make me an offer?

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,RIchard Bridge on another browser
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:51 AM

"If you want kids, pay for them"

I'm not sure that I approve of children being for sale.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:06 AM

"In the end we did get our 'A' Level course and some of us did get to go to University.

Looks like the elitist dreams of that miserable old Tory git (long dead, I hope) are finally going to be realised"

I'm very much afraid so. I have a friend who went to a Sec. Mod. met an inspirational teacher who encouraged her to go to university. She got a law degree and is now a County Court judge. I doubt if anyone will be able to do this under the new system so, effectively, the law will be increasingly under the control of the rich elite.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:34 AM

My own fear is that the cuts do not go far enough.

No doubt Black is thinking of the proposal to take away the mobility allowance from disabled people in residential care homes. The lily-livered Coalition is still proposing to continue feeding these layabouts.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:15 AM

I went to a crappy Secondary Modern school back in the early 60s. When I left I went to the local Technical College to do 'O'Levels (I was supported in this by my parents). When we had finished our 'O' Levels I, and a group of my fellow students, went to the college authorities and asked if they would put on an 'A' Level course.

The college Vice Principal addressed us thus: "I get fed up with Secondary Modern kids like you getting yourselves a few 'O' Levels and then getting big ideas about going to University."

In the end we did get our 'A' Level course and some of us did get to go to University.

Looks like the elitist dreams of that miserable old Tory git (long dead, I hope) are finally going to be realised as the children of the 'lower classes' are priced out of Higher Education.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:12 AM

Ah! I see you've got it back

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:09 AM

Richie - Sorry to tell you but someone has stolen your mudcat ID and used it to post a rational argument

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:04 AM

mandotim, yes I don't think the announced cuts have went far enough. I see far too many young couples struggling paying for mortgages, child care, council tax and daily living while other couples or single mothers cream thousands off the tax payer each year and enjoy a better lifestyle and can roll about their beds to lunchtime. They are parasites, nothing more nothing less. It's wrong when someone of few morals is rewarded in life by a generous government handout.

We need to cut housing and child benefits and call all of the so-called disabled in for a health check to see if there is some kind of work they do. The guy who tiled my bathroom last year told me he was on D.L.A. and drove a mobility car (after he carried out the work of course) Needless to say I reported him.

Take for example a story that appeared recently in the Daily Mail. A single mother of four on £37,000 a year in benefits claims she will need a £60,000 job to make it worth her while to work.

She gets £3,077.20 a month in income support, child benefit, housing benefit and incapacity benefit. She claimed she had some mysterious illness yet goes out drinking three nights a week. She admitted she had four children with three different dads and lives in a new four-bedroom house at our expense. The new rules to be brought in by the Coalition Government will limit any single family's welfare payments to £500 a week, that's simply a joke. If you want kids, pay for them, if you want to booze, smoke and scratch yourself in bed to midday, do so, but don't expect us to pay you for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Lox
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 06:03 AM

Actually leveller, these policies have been tried and tested.

By the last Tory Lib coalition.

The result?

19% unemployment.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:55 AM

Quite simply, the government's policies are untried and untested, amounting to nothing less than a gamble with the lives of us all. Many economists and financial commentators believe that it can't work because there simply won't be enough jobs available and it will hamper economic growth. Added to that, the Mirrlees Report has said that our tax system in "costly and inequitable". Of course, when they fail (as they will) they won't blame themeselves, they'll blame any vulnerable group that they can finger and the rabid right-wing will believe them and rant on mindlessly about scum and scroungers.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:46 AM

Richie has not yet grasped that the finances of a nation are not like those of Mr Micawber.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:31 AM

Richie; re your fear that the cuts don't go far enough. Enlighten us; what else would you cut? By how much? What would be the overall saving or contribution to deficit reduction?
Your reference to illegal protest is revealing. Yes, there were a small number of people who broke the law on the recent demonstration. As pointed out above, the overwhelming majority did not. Last time I looked, it was not illegal to protest publicly in this country; Would you deny those who protested peacefully (and in huge numbers) the right to do so, or is that just right-wing wishful thinking on your part? Do tell, I'd like to pass your ideas on to my student daughter, who was one of the peaceful majority on the demo.
Tim (proud parent)

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:29 AM

A lot of truth in RB's post......but that does not mean that this system is sustainable....it is deeply flawed and this may be our last chance to change it, if we have the guts.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:24 AM

Steady up chaps, our fight is not with our brothers on mudcat, they think diffrently on some things and on others I can agree with them.

The left have behaved shamefully for years supporting the system when times were good.....or we thought they were.

Abusing one another on this forum wont win the real battle, save your energy and intellect to use against the real enemy

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:18 AM

Left-wing Labour MP's and the likes of the Guardian newspaper have spoken of a 'day to be proud' and 'building on this anger' and who praised the ­protesters for 'getting stuck into the Government'. Charming I must say.

The students themselves are supposed to belong to the most intelligent section of British society. But they are protesting for a cause which suggests they left their brains at home. It suggests to me that the protesters are blind to the national deficit, oblivious to the fact that there was an "all-for-nothing culture" promoted for decades by Labour. The truth is that the money no longer exists to provide everyone with a free pass to higher education, or indeed much else.


Precious few broadcasters highlight, or even mention, the fact that even if the ­Government's blueprint to reduce the national deficit is implemented in its entirety, the total number of state jobs axed will amount to barely half those created by Gordon Brown over the past decade.David Cameron is attempting to restore a fundamental ­relationship between effort and reward, which has been allowed to atrophy for far too long.The government must hold its nerve in the face of illegal protests, it could leave Britain's economy in a perilous condition otherwise. The Government faces an absolute need to save huge sums of money, or see Britain's credit rating slump.

My own fear is that the cuts do not go far enough. David Cameron has asserted his determination to tough out the protests. If he has not used a phrase similar to Mrs Thatcher's 'the lady's not for turning', that is still his message.

He makes plain that marches and ­demonstrations, and indeed outbreaks of violence such as took place in London on ­Wednesday, will not deflect him. Those who protest have their rights; but so, too, do the ­majority of people of this ­country who recognise the price that must be paid to restore Britain to solvency.

If the pain imposed by cuts will be real enough, much ­heavier will be the price if the public, as well as this ­Government, does not hold its nerve amid some broken glass.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:14 AM

"Assuming that there were 200 involved in occupying 30 Millbank, and 52,000 on the demo that is 0.38%."

That's far too advanced for the Blacks and Bozos, Richard - they don't do eddykayshun :0

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:08 AM

I support your comments Jim, until the last paragraph. I will never support violence or breaking the law.

Anybody wanting to complain or support the lecturers who seem to be condoning breaking the law at Goldsmiths University, can e-mail

[e-mail]

I have and I guess you will know which side of the fence I have come down on.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:39 AM

Well said Jim.

Assuming that there were 200 involved in occupying 30 Millbank, and 52,000 on the demo that is 0.38%.

Time will come when it is more.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:34 AM

People who blame Clegg understand very well what coalition government is about; it's not a reason for betraying those who voted for you and your own long-held principles. Goodbye Liberals for the next 50 years or so.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Mo the caller
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:32 AM

i'm not going to comment on the rights and wrongs of the fees hike, though I was lucky enough to be educated at a time of grants and no fees.

But people who blame Clegg don't understand what coalition government is about.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:32 AM

Hey Ritchie; ever read 'Bonfire of the Vanities'? Quote; 'A conservative is a liberal who just got mugged, and a liberal is a conservative who just got arrested'. Your turn will come. As for protest not changing anything; remember Ted Heath?

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 04:24 AM

Well when you look here at the personalities,characters and social misfits supporting the criminal activity it says it all.

Anyway, march, moan, protest and rattle your keypad all you want, it is not going to change anything. We have at last got a government that is going to deal with the loafers, scroungers, parasites and criminals in our society, oh and not forgetting students, mustn't forget them !

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:53 AM

Didn't mean you by that Arthur.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:51 AM

"No more than 1% of the total protesters decided to carry out violence."

By my calculations it was less than .5% - 200 our of almost 50,000. But the right-wing scum here can't do calculations.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:26 AM

"Carroll put up or shut up."
Wha - put what up????
The economic crisis has been brought about by the openly observable greed of big buisiness - the traditional friend, supporter and financeer of Conservatism - say this is not the case.
It was overseen by a New Labour government, who have dropped any pretence of Socialiasm and, since Blair took the helm, have sought to market conservatism under a different brand name - say this is not the case.
While all this was going on, HM's loyal opposition offered no 'opposition' whatever to the obvious crisis that was building up; they supported their big business friends with their silence, while the banks, whose boards are made up almost exclusively of Conservative politicians and supportes - drove Britain over the edge of the cliff. - say this is not the case.
The Lib Dems, the Great Whore of Politics, stayed more-or-less silent and bided their time until they decided who it was most advantageous to jump into bed with - say this is not the case.
Throughout all this, the whole rotten bunch of them, Con, New Lab and Lib Dem were all helping themselves out of the nations purse, claiming expenses for their second homes and duck houses, selling honours, feathering their own nests, all far to busy poking their snouts into the trough to do their job properly and honestly - say this is not the case.
Ask the avarage man and woman in the street what they think of our present business and political Lords and Masters, they would happily tell you are all corrupt incompetents who shouldn't be put in charge of a local church hall bingo session, let alone a country - say that this is not the case.
Whether these demonstrations do any good or not, the the only alternative we have to them, as things stand, is to bend over and be shafted - again!!
People would be crazy to stay silent and take the abuse they have been subjected to; personally I hope the streets become congested with demonstrations by pensioners, redundant workers thrown out of work, teachers, doctors and nurses left to wipe up the mess caused by cutbacks..... anybody who has been affected adversely by the antics of corrupt and incompetent politicians and business parasites.
I've said I believe violent demonstrations are unnecessary and self-defeating, but if every demonstration that I hope takes place is carried out by club-weilding, stone throwing angry individuals ioncenced by the behaviour of 'our betters', they couldn't hope to do a fraction of the damage that has already been done by those entrusted with the responsibility to run the country.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:00 AM

Excellent! The Students should be supported from every angle...and quite frankly I'm wondering whether the police themselves almost deliberately held back from over-policing for reasons other than being criticised...

The whole country (apart from a few who are rich, wealthy and pains in the arses) is fed up to the back teeth and...right behind our young people.

Well done The Academics!

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:44 AM

London Evening Standard

SNIP

Academics at Goldsmiths College issued an extraordinary statement saying they wanted to "congratulate staff and students on the magnificent anti-cuts demonstration".

Downing Street reacted furiously to their statement, condemning it as "irresponsible". The document was signed by John Wadsworth, Goldsmiths lecturers' union president and a senior lecturer in education, and Des Freedman, a lecturer in communications and cultural studies.

It said: "The real violence in this situation relates not to a smashed window but to the destructive impact of the cuts and privatisation that will follow if tuition fees are increased and massive reductions in HE funding are implemented."

END SNIP

Heard this morning on Beeb R 4 that the Goldsmiths statement above was supported by a further 100 academics.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: andrew e
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 09:41 PM

The reason why, or at least one of the reasons why, [there would be other reasons also , like being lied to] the students marched is valid. Some of them, or/and future students will not be able to afford to go to uni.

Politicians are mostly very well off and have no concept of just not having the money. To them it's just a case of paying the extra, and the figures in their bank accounts change.

The cost of housing is ridiculous, the banks making heaps from all the interest payments. Many students know that they haven't got a hope of buying a house in the future, and ending Uni with a large debt would just makes this worse.

Meanwhile the government spends heaps of money being violent in Afghanistan and Iraq. They then condemn the students for being violent.

We are not separate; humans, animals, this earth, our environment and all living things; we are an entity, we are one, and it is only with the recognition of this unity that we can achieve our full potential for peace, fulfillment, sustainability and justice.
Awaken, dreamer, and realise the dream of all, as one.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 08:31 PM

It cannot be denied that there comes a point at which the violent overthrow of government becomes necessary. Well, it cannot sensibly be denied.

The question is whether that time has arrived.

A government (we assume) derives its legitimacy from the fact that it obtains and retains office from and is answerable to an appropriate democratic process. As I have demonstrated (pun intended) this government did not obtain office from an appropriate democratic process (vide the placards saying "I want my vote back") and its first steps were to seek to insulate its retention of office from appropriate democratic process, and to seek to ensure that it was not answerable to an appropriate democratic process.

The time has come. Seize the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 05:34 PM

Not going to fall out Akenaton.

I have my viewpoint and I am very sincere about it.

We all have to make our bed and lie in it.

My viewpoint has nothing to do with any party political issues. As I have said many times, they are all as bad as each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 05:00 PM

So there you have it.......and I think the little Weed knew something about it too!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 04:45 PM

If I wasn't an Atheist I would be a worried man..... :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 04:44 PM

Ironically though, as the BBC journalist admitted, had there NOT been any violence then 50,000 students would have protested peacefully and no-one in the media would have taken the slightest notice of them, nor would we have heard a darn thing about it.

Perhaps the media is to blame? Just another way of looking at things..

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 04:43 PM

Arthur...I hope were not going to end up falling out.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 04:41 PM

Sculls?? thats rowing isn't it? :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 04:40 PM

No more than 1% of the total protesters decided to carry out violence.

99% protested without violence and that's what they want.

There is no place for this trash 1% and no place for anybody on here who thinks that scum 1% should be supported. May they rot in hell.

Once again a small minority ruin it for the majority.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 04:39 PM

Bonzo....Firstly, I think there are too many students at university, but that has been due to political manipulation by successive govts, when we became uncompetitive in manufacturing, someone came up with the idea of shovelling school leavers into higher education, whether they were equiped fo it or not.

But if we educate our young folks then turn them out into a society in terminal decline,where nobody wants to use their expensive expertise, dont be surprised if a few eggs get broken or a few sculls get cracked

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 04:16 PM

There is an easy way to solve this problem if these scum take to the streets again for university handouts. Gave a 10 minute notice to the protesters to move on from any building they gather at, if they don't, hose with water cannons using indelible ink.

If any of you know the names of the scum involved in these acts of vandalism, there is a hot line set up report them.I sincerely hope they find every last one responsible for this. These so called "protest marches" always end in trouble. Did anyone see Newsnight last night? a 37 year old student (on a sabbatical this year) was making threats about how there was more and worse to come.

I grew up in a time when we respected public property and folk musicians sang about peaceful protest and rejected violence.

On another point, the Government has just announced even more cuts for the workshy scroungers in our society. Excellent news.

I honestly still can't believe so many of you here support the acts of violence carried out by these drug fueled students. Well the government will stand firm and that is what counts. How many other countries offer free university education.....China, Cuba, maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 04:16 PM

There will soon be worse than trashed buildings to shake your head over!

What a childish remark.

We Tories fully accept that others may have a different point of view. The lefty posters here cannot accept that others may have a different point of view.

Carroll put up or shut up.

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:45 PM

These are young people with only rightful rage in their hearts...we are the generation who failed them, the "baby boomers" "the we want it all" generation.

Well, we and our children and childrens children are about to get "it all" and we are not going to like the taste.

There will soon be worse than trashed buildings to shake your head over!

Subject: RE: BS: Students march against tuition fees UK
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:33 PM

There are more effective and less counterproductive kinds of direct action than trashing buildings.