BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 12:24 PM

Don,

I thought the rest of my post indicated that the demise of the BNP would be no cause at all for celebration or complacency. Fascism is a rag bag product of specific social and economic conditions, far more than it is the product of tactics or strategies or ideologies. If and when those social and economic conditions re-emerge then fascism will reassert itself on a mass scale, with no pretence of constitutionality.

Will the EDL be part of that reassertion? Well, the EDL is a single issue virtual organisation. IE., it was brought into existence to oppose the spread of so called Islamist extremism, although EDL supporters are also known for attacking anti-fascist and socialist meetings, as well as denouncing British Airways strikers and attacking Swansea Trades Council's May Day march. Most worryingly of all, it has now aligned itself with the establishment over university education cuts and increased tuition fees, threatening violence against student protesters.

In other words, while I don't think the EDL will re-invent itself as a fully fledged fascist organisation, it is clearly starting to emerge as the British 21st century equivalent of those "groups of men in brown shirts", the para-military face of fascism which the BNP has traditionally shunned, and which will be extremely useful to a nascent fascist demagogue.

Thus, if we allow them breathing space, the EDL will eventually be sucked into some future fascist movement, just like the ashes of the BNP.

Overall then, whilst I look forwarding to dancing on the BNP's grave in hob nailed boots, the demise of the BNP will not mean the demise of fascism, any more than the death of Margaret Thatcher will herald the demise of capitalism.

And yes, the EDL represents its own threat to all of us who wish to live in a free and democratic society, one which is devoid of ethnic bigotry, concentration camps, and all the other paraphenalia of fascism. But we were talking about the BNP after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 08:33 AM

An Englishman, an Irishman and a Pakistani walk into a bar.

What a wonderful example of a multi-cultural community.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 09:52 AM

So what's wrong with :

A Brit, a Paddy and a Paki walk into the bar?

Nothing in my book, when I was a kid it was OK, now it seems it isn't (someone needs to get a life, and it isn't me . . .)

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 11:28 AM

well its not all right now, it probably wasn't when you were a kid.

I reckon all that headbanging at the end of Bohemian Rhapsody is starting to take its toll.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 11:44 AM

Along with Frogs, Yanks, Krauts etc it was OK.

In the 50s we had other things to worry about . . . including global cooling (my, how the wheel turns).

Still, it's reassuring to know there's no sign of political correctness in my day to day life.

Have a great Christmas all out there . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 08:17 AM

""And yes, the EDL represents its own threat to all of us who wish to live in a free and democratic society, one which is devoid of ethnic bigotry, concentration camps, and all the other paraphenalia of fascism. But we were talking about the BNP after all.""

As I see it, the EDL appear to be a plausibly deniable offshoot of the BNP, allowing for that organisation to promote the breaking of heads, while giving the appearance of a respectable political movement.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

""So what's wrong with :

A Brit, a Paddy and a Paki walk into the bar?

Nothing in my book, when I was a kid it was OK, now it seems it isn't (someone needs to get a life, and it isn't me . . .)""

I'm surprised that anybody with your intelligence and experience cannot understand the difference between those words used as abbreviations (which was exactly the use in the 1950s), and the same words hurled, with obvious hatred, as pejorative epithets.

As the latter is the use to which they have been put over more than thirty years, nobody should be surprised that they are considered inappropriate for use in polite society.

I'm as sick as the next man of unnecessary political correctness, but, if the language we use offends the recipient, then that language is per se offensive, and I was brought up to believe that a gentleman is one who takes care not to give offence..............to anyone!!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 08:29 AM

Save when necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 29 Dec 10 - 06:44 AM

Don, I heartily agree. PC can get out of hand on occasion, access chambers and all that. But if using the "n" word offends people the simple answer is not to use it.

Somewhat off topic, here's an amusing example of far right dishonesty. Coach travelling from Gateshead to Preston for recent EDL demo gets slight shunt from rear. Driver says he would be amazed if anybody had been hurt in the incident, adding 'There was not much more than a scratch on the back corner.'

The coach had 25 EDL supporters on board and the total seating capacity is 57. Guess how many EDL supporters are now claiming for whiplash injuries as a result of this minor shunt? 78.

Yup. 78 upstanding solid citizens who think themselves fit to tell hard working honest Muslims that they're not wanted in this country.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 01:57 PM

I mentioned in an earlier posting that Ecalibur, the BNP's odious merchandising outlet, was located uncomfortably close to where I live. Well, it was within 20 miles of me anyway and, brother at that distance, the stench of racism it emits can be pretty nauseating.

I must confess the smell hasn't been too bad lately, for it seems they've moved. At any rate snailmail orders now have to be sent to a PO box No with the postcode CV11 9FP.

That's not surprising, following the downsizing, mass expulsions, near bankruptcy and general total utter chaos which characterises the BNP's attempts to present itself as the party of the master race. They probably need somewhere smaller and cheaper to house the few remaining bits of right wing tat which they still carry.

The odd thing is that when I searched for CV11 9FP in Google Maps, I was presented with a very nice view of a ploughed field, with not a single building in sight for several hundred yards.

Such obscurantism would make a modicum of common sense, given that the BNP are rather adept at obscuring their tracks on every possible occasion.

But how does it work, I wonder? Does the postman leave the mail under a specially designated clod of earth, half way up the first furrow? Does he perchance follow the talking white rabbit into the hole, there to present the mail to the queen, who shouts "orf wiv 'is 'ead" before the postman makes a welcome escape to the normality of the real world?

Could it even be that we have encountered the mad march hare, the fabulous talking griffin, the Berlin bunker, the royal tea party and the jar of Marmite rolled into one?

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 03:21 AM

Don,

One of the problems with "Political Correctness" is that it can be used to blur the boundaries of what is socially acceptable.

In terms of language, in my view a word or phrase ceases to be socially acceptable when its common usage become a derogatory term to describe a particular section of the community, or is deemed to vulgar for mixed company, whereas PC is much more patronising where 'polite society' deem a word of phrase could be potentially offensive.

I think as a society we have grown up in that racism is no longer acceptable in humour - but it is interesting that as racism decreased, vulgarity increased.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Brian May
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 07:56 AM

I'm beginning to get heartily sick of 'what is socially acceptable' because, in the extreme, we are getting legislation backing up a minority view of the world.

I don't set out to upset anybody (accidentally), but it would appear that small numbers of people, with their tiny-minded agendas don't really give a toss how many people they upset in their mini-crusades.

Appeasement didn't work in the late 30s and it isn't going to work now. Watch this space.

And, as for those intent on 'jumping on this statement', fill your boots- treat yourself, because I really don't give a damn about your tiny-minded attitudes. I'll only bother when you're in a position to force me to listen to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:48 AM

""In terms of language, in my view a word or phrase ceases to be socially acceptable when its common usage become a derogatory term to describe a particular section of the community,""

Which was precisely the point I was making in answer to Brian May's comment about the terms "Paki", "Brit", "Paddy" etc being acceptable.

Given that all have been widely used as pejorative descriptions of sections of society, they (and other similar terms) cannot be described as acceptable.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:56 AM

""I'm beginning to get heartily sick of 'what is socially acceptable' because, in the extreme, we are getting legislation backing up a minority view of the world.""

Wrong mate!! What we are getting is legislation backing up the views of the majority as to how we should treat minorities, views moreover which are mainly popposed by a minority who happen to be xenophobes.

That is the fact which blows your comment about minority legislation to hell, since that minority is rightly ignored by legislators.

Well you did invite us to jump in, though we don't have to listen to your views either.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:59 AM

That of course should read "mainly opposed".

Damn keyboard's got a mind of its own.

DT

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 05:50 PM

I wonder what Brian May means by "I don't set out to upset anybody (accidentally)".

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 07:13 PM

Same as you I suppose, Richard.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 07:21 PM

Change in meds, ake? It is impossible to set out to do something accidentally.

Subject: RE: BS: Nick Griffin to stand in Oldham by-elect
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 07:24 PM

And talking of xenophobes......Hello Ake!!

Don T.