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Origins: Herr von Falkenstein

GUEST,Hilary 10 May 11 - 09:20 AM
GUEST,Grishka 10 May 11 - 05:52 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 May 11 - 06:27 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 May 11 - 06:34 PM
GUEST,Hilary 11 May 11 - 08:18 PM
GUEST,leeneia 12 May 11 - 12:33 AM
michaelr 12 May 11 - 12:50 AM
michaelr 12 May 11 - 12:53 AM
michaelr 12 May 11 - 01:01 AM
GUEST,leeneia 12 May 11 - 01:25 AM
GUEST,Grishka 12 May 11 - 05:39 AM
GUEST,leeneia 12 May 11 - 09:40 AM
GUEST,Grishka 12 May 11 - 02:11 PM
GUEST,leeneia 12 May 11 - 02:48 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 12 May 11 - 06:40 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 12 May 11 - 06:43 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 12 May 11 - 09:12 PM
michaelr 12 May 11 - 09:21 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 12 May 11 - 09:21 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 12 May 11 - 10:09 PM
GUEST,leeneia 13 May 11 - 12:12 AM
GUEST,Grishka 13 May 11 - 01:59 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 13 May 11 - 02:57 PM
GUEST,Grishka 13 May 11 - 03:28 PM
GUEST,Grishka 13 May 11 - 04:08 PM
GUEST,Grishka 13 May 11 - 05:28 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 13 May 11 - 05:40 PM
GUEST,Grishka 14 May 11 - 06:49 AM
Ernest 16 May 11 - 12:47 PM
GUEST,leeneia 17 May 11 - 10:37 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 17 May 11 - 12:53 PM
GUEST,Grishka 17 May 11 - 01:04 PM
GUEST,leeneia 17 May 11 - 11:57 PM
Wilfried Schaum 18 May 11 - 03:01 AM
GUEST,Grishka 18 May 11 - 03:19 AM
michaelr 18 May 11 - 12:02 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 May 11 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,leeneia 18 May 11 - 02:27 PM
GUEST,Grishka 19 May 11 - 07:17 AM
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Subject: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,Hilary
Date: 10 May 11 - 09:20 AM

Can anyone direct me to a website with information about a song of which the first verse goes.
    Es reit der Herr von Falkenstein
    Über ein breite Heide
    Was sieht er an dem Wege stehn
    Ein Mäd'l mit weißem Kleide

I am trying to learn about its origins but cannot seem to find a whole lot.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 10 May 11 - 05:52 PM

Hilary, this song is quite easy to google.

The first address for all things German is Ingeb.org, which indeed has the lyrics of this song. I also found the sheet music. Unfortunately, both versions of the lyrics seem corrupted not only by the folk process, but also by ordinary typing errors. The meaning is quite clear though; if your German is insufficient, I can help.

X:1
T:Es reit der Herr von Falkenstein
C:trad. 1539, lyrics 14th century
M:4/4
L:1/4
Q:140
K:D dor
D|AAFD|EFGA|B/ B/ c (d/c/)c|B2AA
w:Es reit der Herr von Fal-ken-stein wohl ü-ber ein brei_te Hei-de. Was
|BcdD|F_BAG|FG/ A/ _BA|(GF/E/)D|]
w:sah er an dem We-ge stehn? Ein Mäd-lein im wei-ßen Klei---de.

(ABC code can be entered at Folkinfo to obtain black dots or MIDI files.)
Further verses:

Seid ihr der Herr von Falkenstein,
derselbe edle Herre?
So will ich beten um den Gefangenen mein,
den will ich haben zur Ehre.

Den Gefangenen mein, den geb ich dir nicht.
Im Turm muß er verfaulen.
Zu Falkenstein steht ein tiefer Turm,
wohl zwischen zwo hohe Mauern.

Steht zu Falkenstein ein tiefer Turm,
wohl zwischen zwo hohe Mauern,
so will ich an der Mauer stehn
und will ihm helfen trauern.

Sie ging der Turm wohl um und wieder um.
Feinslieb, bist du da drinnen?
Und wenn ich dich nicht sehen kann,
so komm ich von meinen Sinnen.

Ei dürft ich scharfe Messer tragen,
wie unsers Herrn sein Knechte,
so tät ich mit'm Herrn von Falkenstein
um meinen Herzliebsten fechten.

Mit einer Jungfrau fecht ich nit,
das wär mir immer ein Schande.
Ich will dir diesen Gefangenen geben.
Zieh mit ihm aus dem Lande.

Wohl aus dem Land, da zieh ich nit,
hab niemand was gestohlen.
Und wenn ich was hab liegen lan,
so darf ich's wieder holen.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 May 11 - 06:27 PM

A longer version here:
http://www.labbe.de/liederbaum/index.asp?themaid=48&titelid=319

Includes score and chords.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 May 11 - 06:34 PM

Another source of German lyrics-
robokopp-
http://www.musicanet.org/robokopp/Lieder/esreitde.html

The full(?) eleven verses here also.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,Hilary
Date: 11 May 11 - 08:18 PM

Thanks for the websites. But I already have access to the lyrics and music. I was trying to find out some background information about the song. However, it is useful to know that the words are from the 14th century and the tune from 1539.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 May 11 - 12:33 AM

What does this mean?

Und wenn ich was hab liegen lan,
so darf ich's wieder holen.

Does was = etwas?

wieder holen = wiederholen - to repeat

Liegen seems to mean 'to recline'

lan?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: michaelr
Date: 12 May 11 - 12:50 AM

And if I let something lie
then I may fetch it again


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: michaelr
Date: 12 May 11 - 12:53 AM

BTW, 14th century German would be incomprehensible now. I'd guess this text to be 18th c.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: michaelr
Date: 12 May 11 - 01:01 AM

"was" is indeed a short form of "etwas" = something.

"wieder holen" is not the same word as "wiederholen" (=to repeat). It means to retrieve (fetch again).

"lan" is short for "lassen" (=to let). Again guessing, it may be from the Swabian dialect.

An interesting text, quite unlike German trad song I'm familiar with. In its form it is more akin to a Child ballad - I wonder if it's a derivation from a British trad song.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 May 11 - 01:25 AM

Hi, Michael. Thanks for the language tips.

It's a strangely unfinished song, I think.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 12 May 11 - 05:39 AM

Leeneia, why unfinished? Our notorious Achim von Arnim has not succeeded in obscuring its meaning, since the "enlightener" J. G. Herder had published it before.

Like Hilary, I am curious about older sources. "16th century manuscript" - who knows it?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 May 11 - 09:40 AM

As I understand it, the Herr releases the prisoner because it's too embarrassing to fight with his girlfriend. He sends the prisoner into exile (aus dem Land) but the prisoner defies him, saying nothing's been stolen.

Then what happens? Does the prisoner return to his former life, unmolested? Isn't it dangerous in the long run to defy the Herr? Or did he and his lover manage to live happily ever after?

That's what I mean by unfinished.

Nonetheless, it's interesting to study such an old song, whether it's from 1400 or 1800.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 12 May 11 - 02:11 PM

1539 sounds like a plausible terminus ante quem. The late Middle Ages were a fruitful time for ballads, in Germany, in England, and elsewhere. Some influence from France/Provence can be assumed.

Leeneia, obviously you have no difficulty understanding the language. In my interpretation, the last stanza is spoken by the woman. She has "retrieved" the man, who is her rightful "property", i.e. had been imprisoned unjustly.

Herr von Falkenstein is a despot, but has to yield to female charms, persuasiveness, and threat to cause a public scandal. He would have preferred the couple to leave his domain ("Land" = a village and a fortress), so that he is not constantly reminded of his defeat, but he is refused even that.

Any more questions?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 May 11 - 02:48 PM

Aha, I hadn't thought of the last verse being sung by the woman. That changes everything. It does seem be finished.


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Subject: Lyr. Add: Es Reit der Herr von Falkenstein
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 May 11 - 06:40 PM

Lyr. Add: Es reit der Herr von Falkenstein

1
Es reit der Herr von Falkenstein
wohl über ein breit Heide.
Was sah er an dem Wege steh'n?
Ein Mädchen in weiß Kleide.
2
Wohin, wohinaus du schöne Magd?
Was machet ihr hier alleine?
Wollt ihr die Nacht mein Schlafbuhle sein,
so reitet ihr mit mir Heime !
3
Mit euch heimreiten, das tu ich nicht,
kann euch doch nicht erkennen.
Ich bin der Herr von Falkenstein
und tu mich selber nennen.
4
Seid ihr der Herr von Falkenstein,
derselbe edle Herre?
So will ich beten um den Gefang'nen mein,
den will ich haben zur Ehre.
5
Den Gefang'nen mein, den gab ich dir nicht.
Im Turm muss' er verfaulen.
Zu Falkenstein steht ein tiefer Turm,
wohl zwischen zwo hohe Mauern.
6
Steht zu Falkenstein ein tiefer Turm,
wohl zwischen zwo hohe Mauern,
so will ich an der Mauer steh'n
und will ihm helfen trauern.
7
Sie ging den Turm wohl um und wieder um.
Feinslieb, bist du da drinnen?
Und wenn ich dich nicht sehen kann,
so komm ich von meinen Sinnen.
8
Sie ging den Turm wohl um und wieder um,
den Turm wollt sie aufschlieàen:
Und wenn die Nacht ein Jahr lang wär,
keine Stund tät mich verdrieàen !
9
Ei, dürft ich scharfe Messer tragen,
wie unsers Herrn sein Knechte,
so tät ich mit'm Herrn von Falkenstein
um meinen Herzliebsten fechten.
10
Mit einer Jungfrau fecht ich nit,
das wär mir immer ein Schande.
Ich will dir diesen Gefangenen geben.
Zieh mit ihm aus dem Lande.
11
Wohl aus dem Land, da zieh ich nit,
hab niemand was gestohlen.
Und wenn ich was hab liegen lan,
so darf ich's wieder holen.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 May 11 - 06:43 PM

Prededing version in modern German for children.
http://www.labbe.de/liederbaum/index.asp?themaid=48&titelid=319
With chords and score.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 May 11 - 09:12 PM

Johannes Brahms, Opus 43/4, Das Lied vom Herrn von Falkenstein ("Es reit der Herr"), song for voice and piano.

There are several arrangements of this folk song. The arrangement by Albrecht Haaf is often sung; I have not seen his score or lyrics.

The following lyrics by Herder:

Es reit der Herr von Falkenstein
wohl über ein breite Heide
Was sieht er an dem Wege stehn?
Ein Maidel mit weiß Kleide
2
Wohin? Wohinaus du schöne Magd
Was machst du hier alleine
Willst du die Nacht mein Schlafbuhle sein
so reit du mit mir heime.
3
Mit euch heimreiten, das tu ich nicht
kann euch doch nicht erkennen
Ich bin der Herr von Falkenstein
und tu mich selber nennen.
4
Seid ihr der Herr von Falkenstein
der selbe edle Herre
so will ich euch bitten um den Gefangenen dein
den will ich haben zur Ehe.
5
Den Gefangenen mein, den geb ich dir nicht
im Turm muß er verfaulen
zu Falkenstein steht ein tiefer Turm
wohl zwischen zwei tiefen Mauern.
6
Steht zu Falkenstein ein tiefer Turm
wohl zwischen zwei tiefen Mauern
so will ich die Mauern stehn
und will ihm helfen trauern.
7
Sie ging den Turm wohl wieder um
Feinsleib bist du darinnen
Und wenn ich dich nicht haben kann
so komm ich von meinen Sinnen.
8
Ei Dürfte ich scharfe Messer tragen
wie unsers Herrn sein Knechte
ich tät mittm Herrn von Falkenstein
um meinen Herzliebsten fechten.
9
Mit einer Jungfrau fecht ich nicht
das wär mir immer ein Schande !
Ich will dir deinen Gefangenen geben
zieh mit ihm aus dem Lande !

http://www.volksliederarchiv.de/text248.html


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: michaelr
Date: 12 May 11 - 09:21 PM

Aha! This makes more sense: (Verse 4)

"den will ich haben zur Ehe" (him I want for wedlock)

"Ehre" (honor) is obviously a typo.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 May 11 - 09:21 PM

Melody date is frequently given as 1539, but I have not found source.

Musical arrangement for the lyrics by Herder (previous post) are those of Theodore Salzmann (1854-1928).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 May 11 - 10:09 PM

Found a litle more-
"One can trace the development of an old tune within the repertoire of popular song, "Herr von Falkenstein appears first in a *Netherlandish songbook of 1539. In 1843 a version of the tune was collected in the German countryside. There is no special reason to think that the later version has been reworked by a sentimental urban composer, though the collector may have rationalized it a little. ....published in 1935 by the German Volksliedarchiv, in their great and impeccably scientific collection Deutsche Volkslieder."
The Gottverdammt Google skips the page showing the 1539 version (from **Wiora, 1971, 19)
Book is Robert S. Hatten, Interpreting Musical Gestures, Topics and Tropes Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Indiana University Press, 2004.

*1539- Antwerpener Geislichen Liederbuch
**Walter Wiora, Reflections on the Problem: How Old Is the Concept Folksong?, Yearbook of the International Folk Music Council, vol. 3 (1971), pp. 23-33.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/767454


Without seeing the 1539 songbook data, the tune (if given there) is uncertain.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 May 11 - 12:12 AM

Thanks for explaining about Ehe and Ehre, Michael.

Too bad about the 1539 MS, Q. But I have seen old music manuscripts, and sometimes they are indecipherable today.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 May 11 - 01:59 PM

Ehe and Ehre: Herder and "Wunderhorn" have Ehre, which (approximately) rhymes with Herre. "Ehe" makes more sense in modern German.

The 1539 Antwerpener Liederbuch only contains the tune for a hymn, marked in Dutch: "Dit is die wise van Ick sach mijn heere van valckensteyn" ("This is the tune of 'I saw my lord of valckensteyn'") The tune was used for many other Dutch songs and hymns, as this list shows.

The original ballad is said to be from southern Germany, and much older. I have not found it yet. Herder's last stanza might not be original, since it is missing in many renderings - too bad!

Here I found a Lower German version (full of OCR "typos"). Judging from its (more logical) beginning, it may have descended from a Dutch version. It has "Üm aller Jungfru'n Ehre!" - "By all our Virgin's honour!".


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 May 11 - 02:57 PM

"...original ballad said to be from southern Germany, and much older." Since the German song was collected in 1843, the date of origin is problematical.

Archer Taylor, "The Themes Common to English and German Balladry, 1940, Modern Language Quarterly, 1:23-35, discusses the song, collected in Coblentz. Not seen.
This, and Wiora, cited above, may have some answers.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 May 11 - 03:28 PM

Q, Herder is 1778, and the song is clearly the same as the one mentioned in 1539 (and very frequently lateron), folk-processed in many details, but identical in its major features.

Correction about Ehe/Ehre: Wunderhorn has "Ehe" (as clearly visible in scans of the original 1806 edition), and so has probably Herder, since the two versions are described as identical. "Den will ich haben zur Ehre" vs. "Ehe" has a Google hit quota of 4 : 23. Someone may have invented a "reconstruction" of the rhyme - or had access to a source independent of Herder and Arnim. One site names Goethe as author, haha!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 May 11 - 04:08 PM

Here is a scan of the 1539 source marked "Dit is die wise van Ick sach mijn heere van valckensteyn".

It is "Een devoot ende profitelyck boecxken" ("A devout and profitable booklet"). Mind the change of clef.

The lyrics of the Dutch hymn are:

Met liden swaer ben ick beuaen
Nu ende tot allen stonden
Mijn vruecht die is nu al ghedaen
Met druck ben ick ghebonden.

etc.

(With serious suffering I am afflicted
Now and at all hours.
My fruit, it is now already done,
With pressure I am bound.

and so on. "Suffering teaches us to love God".)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 13 May 11 - 05:28 PM

Here (pp. 33-35) is Ferdinand von Freiligrath's story (1840); it may be what you are looking for, Hilary. Note that Freiligrath was a poet, not a scholar. He tells us about an incident in Westphalia around 1404 which he believes to be reported in the ballad. The corresponding castle Falkenstein is one of many in Germany. Q is not likely to be convinced, but it makes good reading.

Freiligrath has the following version of the lyrics, apparently in his contemporary Westphalian (Lower German) dialect and from oral tradition:
Ik sag minen Heren van Falkensteen
To siner Borg op rieden,
En Schild förte he beneven sik her,
Blank Schwerd an siner Sieden.

„God gröte ju Heren van Falkensteen;
„Sy ji des Land's en Here?
„Ei so gebet mek weder den Gefang'nen min,
„Um aller Jungfrou'n Ere;

De Gefangene, den ik gefangen hebb',
De is mi worden suer,
De liegt tom Falkensteen in dem Thoorn,
Darin sal he vervulen.

„Sal he dan tom Falkensteen in dem Thoorn,
„Sal he darin vervulen?
„Ei so wil ik wal jegen de Müren treen,
„Un helpen Leefken truren.

Un as se wal jegen de Muren trat,
Hört se fien Leefken d'rinne.
„Sal ik ju helpen? dat ik nig kan,
„Dat nimt mi Wit un Sinne.

Na Hus, na Hus, mine Jungfroue, zart,
Un tröst jue arme Weysen.
Nemt ju op dat Jar enen andern Man,
De ju kan helpen truren.

„Nem ik op dat Jar enen andern Man,
„By eme möst ik slapen.
„So leet ik dan ok jo min Truren nig.
„Slög he mine arme Weysen.

„Ei so wolt ik, dat ik enen Zelter hedd,
„Un alle Jungfrou'n rieden,
„So wolt ik met Heren van Falkensteen,
„Um min fien Leeflten strieden.

Oh ne, oh ne, mine Jungfrou zart;
Des möst ik dregen Schande,
Nemt ji ju Leefken wal by de Hand,
Trek ju met ut' dem Lande.

„Ut dinem Lande trek ik so nig,
„Du gifst mi dan en Schriven,
„Wenn ik nu komme in fremde Land,
„Dat ik darin kann bliven. —

As se wal in en grot Hede kam
Wal lude ward se singen:
„Nu kan ik den Heren van Falkensteen
„Met minen Worden twingen.

„Do ik dit nu nig hene segen kan,
„Do will ik doen hen schrifen,
„Dat ik den Heren van Falkensteen
„Met minen Worden kont twingen.
The lady (the prisoner's wife, with anticipated "orphans") enjoys her final triumph thoroughly.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 May 11 - 05:40 PM

The Falkenstein's have a long history. One or more (or in combination) could well have been celebrated in song.

There is a painting showing a woman in a tower, and a knight on the way up the rocks.

Thanks for your posts. Interesting material to digest.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 14 May 11 - 06:49 AM

This wonderful song deserves a translation. Judging from the first line, Freiligrath's rendering seems to be closer to the original than Herder's and Arnim's. Although I am fluent in German and have some knowledge of Dutch, I asked a friend about a couple of words, believing him to be an expert in historical German language. To my disappointment, he frankly declared himself incompetent for Low German.

The following is as literal as possible, to my best knowledge:
  1. I saw my lord of Falkensteen [Falcon Castle] ride up to his castle, carrying a shield beside him, and a blank sword at his side.

  2. "God greet you, Lord Falkensteen; are you the lord of this land? Oh, so give me back my prisoner, by all the Virgins's honour [or: by all virgins' honour]!"

  3. "The prisoner I have caught has become troublesome to me. He lies at Falkensteen in the tower [dungeon], in which he must rot."

  4. "Must he then, in the tower of Falkensteen, must he rot in there? Oh, so I will well step towards the wall and help my darling mourn."

  5. And as she stepped towards the wall, she heard good darling inside. [She answered:] "I should help you? That I cannot do, which takes away my wit and senses."

  6. "Go home, go home, my tender maid, and console your poor orphans. Take yourself another husband in a year [after my death], who can help you mourn."

  7. "If I take another husband in a year, I would have to sleep with him. So I would not end my mourning either, if he thrashed my poor orphans.

  8. Oh, so I wish I had a palfrey, and that all girls rode [were allowed to ride]. Then I would fight with Lord Falkensteen for my darling."

  9. [Lord F.:] "Oh no, oh no, my tender maid, about that I would bear shame. Take your darling well by your hand, trek with him out of this domain."

  10. "Out of your domain I shall not trek just like that, unless you give me a writing, when I now come to a foreign land, that I can stay there." -

  11. Well, when she came to a large heath [where nobody could hear her], well, she would sing loudly: "Now I can overmaster Lord Falkensteen with my words!"

  12. "Since I cannot speak this out, I will write it down, that I could overmaster Lord Falkensteen with my words!"

Verse 6 looks a bit strange. We'd expect "Go home, my wife, and console our children, who will soon be semi-orphans." Instead, he calls her Jungfrou, which usually means virgin, and talks about "your orphans". - In Freiligrath's time, widows were expected to wait a year before remarrying, which would have been economically impossible in earlier times.

There are many castles, villages, and gentry families called Falkenstein or similar, since falconry was a key attribute of nobility.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: Ernest
Date: 16 May 11 - 12:47 PM

Here with notation (from a 1920s edition of "Zupfgeigenhansel"


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 May 11 - 10:37 AM

Thank you for the translation, Griska.

It's interesting that the Lord' castle is named after the falcon, a predator. The poem may be implying that he's a predator himself, as well as a practitioner of falconry.

Thanks for the tune, Ernest. By the way, what's a Zupfgeigenhansel?

geige = violin
hansel = little Johnny


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 May 11 - 12:53 PM

A collection of folk songs published 1909.
Also a folk group of years past- hear them on youtube.

Literally, a fool who fiddles around with the fiddle, or with music.

Am I close, Grishka?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 17 May 11 - 01:04 PM

That very popular book is titled Der Zupfgeigenhansl. The guitar ("plucked fiddle") edition of 1914 has some very elaborate arrangements, not easy but worth practising.

The tune for Falkenstein is rendered there in a minor key. Anyone performing it today should sing the original Dorian version.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 May 11 - 11:57 PM

No, no. the guitar is 'die Gitarre.'


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 18 May 11 - 03:01 AM

Bidding for the release of a beloved prisoner is an old and frequent theme in German folk poetry. The High German version given by Grishka was heard and written down by J. W. Goethe 1771 during his stay in Alsatia.
Jungfrau is normally a virgin, but could also mean a young woman.
But looking through the Nether German version there are some other thoughts: Having an orphan (mine arme Weysen can also be acc. sing. fem.) would make sense with her wish to regain her honour by marrying the emprisoned lover; but since she has to stay in mourning a year after her lover's death for marrying seems to hint at the fact that she was married. Freiligrath also gives the historic background: the couple was married.
1)Zupfgeigenhansl vs. 2) Zupfgeigenhansel: 1) is the title of the famous songbook of the preWWI youth movement, 2) the name of a duo (Thomas Friz & Ernst Schmeckenbecher). Please note this important difference I had the occasion to point at in an earlier thread.
The meaning of both forms is Johnny Guitar.

Sing and enjoy
Wilfried


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 18 May 11 - 03:19 AM

leeneia, you might claim a higher percentage of German ancestors than I, so I just refer you to a dictionary. The Wikipedia article I linked to in my last post tells you more.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: michaelr
Date: 18 May 11 - 12:02 PM

"Zupfgeige" is a colloquial, tongue in cheek term for guitar, in the same vein as "dudelsack" (bagpipe).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 May 11 - 01:37 PM

Die Zupfgeige is a shop in Karlsruhe specializing in guitars.
They have guitars made by Marvi for 6500 euros.
Also rather nice flamenco guitars, including Duran.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 18 May 11 - 02:27 PM

Thanks, Michaelr. That explains it.

Q, I'll have to wait till I get my allowance before I get that guitar for 6500 euros.

Either that or cash in my IRA.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Herr von Falkenstein
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 19 May 11 - 07:17 AM

Wilfried, thanks for pointing to Goethe's role. In a letter to Herder, 1771, he wrote that he had heard the song "from the throats of the oldest matrons" while riding on horseback through rural Alsace. No broadside ("Fliegendes Blat") for the lyrics, as sometimes claimed.

Even if we take Goethe's and Freiligrath's versions to be faithful renditions of living folklore, both are bound to be folk-processed. As I hinted before, Freiligrath's idea about the historical facts being reported is highly questionable. It is quite possible that married-with-children and affianced theories coexisted and were mixed.

As a fact we know that versions starting like "Ick sach mijn heere van valckensteyn" were very popular in Germany and the Netherlands in the 16th century. (Here an indirect quote from a chronicle of Stralsund, Pommerania.)


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