BS: One country separated by one language

Subject: BS: One country separated by one language
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 07:56 PM

The confusion is not limited to cross-ponders (i.e., Americans): Diagnostic dilemma, innit bruv

This blog post gives thoughts on "...a wonderful 2007 case study from the British Medical Journal that reports how middle aged doctors can mistake street slang for symptoms of schizophrenia.

    'Detailed and repeated assessment of [the patient's] mental state found a normal affect, no delusions, hallucinations, or catatonia, and no cognitive dysfunction. His speech, however, was peppered with what seemed (to his middle class and older psychiatrist) to be an unusual use of words, although he said they were street slang.

    'It was thus unclear whether he was displaying subtle signs of formal thought disorder (manifest as disorganised speech, including the use of unusual words or phrases, and neologisms) or using a 'street" argot. This was a crucial diagnostic distinction as thought disorder is a feature of psychotic illnesses and can indicate a diagnosis of schizophrenia.

    'We sought to verify his explanations using an online dictionary of slang (urbandictionary.com). To our surprise, many of the words he used were listed and the definitions accorded with those he gave.'"

Ha!

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: gnu
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 08:13 PM

Good ting dem fellers ain't dispensein yer medical diagnoses in yer Lantic Canada what wit all us backwoods New Nova Caper Islander Newfs ona go eh wha? It's be shockin sure.

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 08:21 PM

I was on a research project in Labrador and we administered tests to children..and we kept pointing out that some considerations should be made for their dialect etc...

We would say..this is his and this is?? She's.

What do you with a ball. Ya heaves it.

What do you do with a hammer. Ya heaves it.

What do you do with a dolly? Ya heaves it.

I was giving one kid a block test that was modified from the instructions that we had..and he told me I was doing it wrong. He was reading the instructions upside down as I was testing him..7 years old.

But they were the brightest kids I have ever seen. There were discussions going on as to why Newfoundland kids tested so high on standardized tests, even when parents' education, income level etc. were not as high as from other parts of the country. mg

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 08:46 PM

A friend of mine was once hospitalized with a manic episode. She was delusional and thought she was in Turkey. So, sensibly under the circumstances, she tried talking to the staff in Turkish (which she was fluent in). They thought she was more seriously ill than she actually was, making up an imaginary language.

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: Allan C.
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 06:31 AM

I read the medical history of a patient I cared for on a geriatric ward of a mental hospital. The admitting physician had duly noted that the parents stated the (then 16 year-old) boy had "destroyed the bean field". I feel I can say with some certainty that the parents had said something more along the lines of, "He was a-tearin' up the pea patch" which, when translated from the country vernacular, means he threw a tantrum.

The patient, when I knew him, was 72 and had been in the mental hospital all those many years.

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 06:34 AM

Sick wicked bro

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: Musket
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 08:45 AM

A GP in Doncaster wrote a booklet of local phrases and words for foreign doctors. A good laugh at the time but not given official backing for a host of good reasons, not least of which the condescending overtone.

That said, when a doctor of Indian origin is told by a patient that she feels iffy when Barnsley are at home, what the hell is he meant to say?

I doubt many women would use such phrases to describe PMT, especially not to a doctor, but it was humorous all the same...

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 09:53 AM

My sister (English) is a doctor in Scotland, near Dundee, where the accent and many dialect words make interpretation hard. The patients often state they're feeling 'peely-wally' (under the weather) and to have been 'awfu' no-weel' means to have actually vomited. One lady told my sis. that she was "aye heving tae lie on the flair being no-weel" Luckily, Babs has been 'up there' for years now and is totally bilingual. She often has to interpret for foreign new doctors though.

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 09:55 AM

Somewhere I've got a GP's handbook with a list for foreign doctors of expressions they are liable to come up with from patients - with an indication of those terms they need to understand but had better not use themselves, and those they should use with caution. So it might be OK to say "How are your waterworks?" but not "does it hurt when you piss?"

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 11:09 AM

I read a book a few years ago that I strongly recommend: "The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down" by Anne Fadiman. The title is a literal translation of the Hmong term for epilepsy. It's a tragic story of miscommunication and misunderstanding between a Hmong family living in California and the American doctors, social workers, etc., who tried to help them. It's not only about language, but culture as a whole.

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 11:10 AM

Wow. I am reminded of the experiment when a psychologist had people have themselves committed and then act normally, and take notes on what happened. Nobody ever noticed and the shrinks made comments like "engages in compulsive writing behavior."

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 11:11 AM

I should say, nobody on the STAFF ever noticed. The crazies knew right away.

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 02:28 PM

My friend Janet's late husband was a psychiatrist, he always used to say some of the staff were seriously mentally ill and the patients often quite normal!

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 02:55 PM

Not only Doctors. I have seen people here on Mudcat try to diagnose someone I was describing as having a very broad 'Solfod' accent as being anything ranging from dyslexic to deprived to having learning difficulties and speech impediments!

It always was, and probably still is, a trait of 'slang' to exclude the people outside that particular area (be the area geographic or social) from knowing what is going on:-) In my memory people used to talk 'broad' to each other and 'bang' to outsiders including posh folk and doctors:-) The ability to switch between the two at a moments notice was amazing to hear and is now, seemingly, a lost art.

The worst bit though is that doctors no longer understand the language of their patients:-( A very sad reflection on the medical profession.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 06:21 PM

I guess I should tell this story... I was teaching a smart high school class college psych, and there kept one day being construction noises next door, like drills and such. I finally asked what was going on, and imitated the noise... and the kids laughed so hard one actually fell over, turned purple and couldn't breathe (I am laughing again as I type even though it was also horribly embarrassing)...

It wasn't construction. It was the speech pathology class trying to produce English.

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 07:46 PM

Hi Eliza.

Many years (decades) ago I went to perform at the Royal Ediburgh (psychiatric) Hospital where Abby Sale's wife was working at the time. The first thing I (and the rest of the group) noticed was that the ones who seemed normal were the patients!

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: Jim McLean
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 04:44 AM

I remember listening to a drunken argument between Dominic Behan and Enoch Kent. One asserted that the last public hanging was fairly recently while the other said it took place a couple of hundred years ago.I eventually managed to disentagle their two drunken accents, Irish and Scottish and realised that one was taling about Perthshire in Scotland, and the other was talking about Persia!

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: LadyJean
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 10:33 PM

As a child, I happily told some psychaitrist the plot of James Stephens "The Crock of Gold", leaving out one essential factor. That it was a book. I figured the shrink knew.

She assumed I was describing my home life, and told my parents that I was schizophrenic.

Ridiculous, of course! Leprechausn repaired our shoes, but dad never allowed them in the house.

Subject: RE: BS: One country separated by one language
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 04 Aug 11 - 02:42 PM

Hello there Dave! I went to Edinburgh University (also decades ago) and worked in the Royal Infirmary there each summer. I soon got used to being called 'hain'. I then obtained my first teaching post in Bruntsfield (quite a posh district of Edinburgh) and had to remember when giving a spelling test, to pronounce things in the Scottish way. In English, pearl, girl and furl rhyme. But it's 'perril' 'girril' and 'furrel' up there. I ended up with a very posh 'Miss Jean Brodie' accent. Then I moved to Glasgae!! Oh dear, I had to learn fast! After a few weeks, I was broad Glasgae to the core. I lived in a flat in 'Pairtick' so I had the very best of neighbours to teach me!