BS: class warfare

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 11:12 PM

There has been class warfare practiced on the poor for so long that it's absolutely basic to the culture. More recently class warfare has been practiced ruthlessly on the middle class....and you notice how the middle class is gettin' converted not so slowly, but quite surely into more of "the poor" and "the unemployed".

Yessiree, it's class warfare all right. But it ain't bein' practiced ON the rich, it's bein' practiced BY the rich. They are the ones who are wagin' it on the rest of society, with the help of their puppet politicians. And they are the ones who get the bonuses and the bailouts.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 09:24 AM

For a lousy 360 billion dollars (US) they could make everyone in the US a billionaire.

Of course, it might possibly perhaps maybe have some economic consequences....

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 09:43 AM

Ya might wanna check the math on that, Rap.

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 11:48 AM

Ha! There are at least 360 people in my own town.

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 04:20 PM

Sounds like Chongz has been reading the Democrat talking points... That's scarey...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 04:33 PM

Curious that there are no UK political threads at present. Maybe, while we certainly have a cockup (even the IMF says so) we have no impending erection and no fraggling way out short of a MASSIVE parliamentary vote to truncate the term of this parliament - or a proper revolution.

Hey Rap, wanna hire out as a mercenary (oops, sorry, freedom fighter)?

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: John P
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 05:14 PM

we have no impending erection

hee hee hee

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 05:19 PM

Economics is the opium of the mathes.

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: DrugCrazed
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 05:19 PM

I read a thing about how lowering taxes increases tax income, because the rich accept it and look for less loopholes. If I could remember where I'd got the link from, I'd post it here.

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: saulgoldie
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 05:54 PM

It has always been class warfare. 'Specially the last several decades when incomes at the top level have soared and incomes at the production level have fallen way behind. At the moment, the wealthy and unproductive are winning the argument. They may "manage" systems and resources. But without thousands of staff, they are just "idea" people. They cannot enact any of their ideas without staff, who are usually not nearly appreciated enough.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 06:06 PM

They have plenty of staff - in India, in Mexico, in China, in the Phillipines, etc. - & the numbers are growing daily.

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 06:49 PM

There is a question about class warfare being waged on the poor and middle class but the problem becomes more extensive when you ask what does it mean to be rich? At this time in history, rich can mean abusing natural resources, extending profligate consumption in gas, oil, water, food, and meaningless possessions. In a way you could say that the advertising industry has been waging class war on the gullible public for years cheating them with useless products, planned obsolescence, enticing them to drive cars "unsafe at any speed" and polluting the air, enabling the corrupt energy industry to destroy natural habitats. Being rich today may mean learning to value what is valuable and rejecting that which is destructive to human health and the environment.

Government regulating investments makes sense to me and narrows the gap.

Capitalism means people living off of their investments and dividends. This could be effectively regulated by going back to Glass Steagal and repealing the Modernization bill rammed through by Phil Gramm. Banks could go back to their original function of loaning and protecting money and not gambling in a Wall Street Casino.

Here's where government can play an important role provided that there are honest people (like Elizabeth Warren) in charge.

The term "class warfare" is a Frank Luntz propaganda word tool such as "death taxes" which can be reframed by calling them "tax revenues" or "class warfare" could be called "class exploitation".

We need to start reframing some of the shibboleths of the GOP and producing a new useful terminology. Use of the term "social democracy" means we can have the best of both worlds, socialism that is not monolithic but useful as in Social Security.

The most important thing as George Lakoff suggests is not to use the GOP terminology but immediately reframe the words. Instead of "job creators"..... "Job destroyers", "death taxes"..... "revenue enhancers" (someone can do better than this one)," Socialists"..."social democrats", "patriots"...."taxpayers", "spending cuts"....."stealing from poor"............"entitlements (don't use this one)........."human rights or public investments or insurance payments". You get the idea, just don't use their language or validate it. "Jobs" should be "decent paying jobs". "Capital punishment"......."legalized state murder". Reframe creatively and don't accept or use the terminology that Frank Luntz or others on the mainstream media use. Remember that taxes are necessary for revenue to benefit society, without them you can't have democracy. Taxes are membership into a civilized society provided that the are not misused to aggrandize some reprehensible politician or corporation. By the way, corporations are not people because they don't die, can't be tried for murder (although they should be), as personalities are basically schizophrenic or sociopathic very much like an out-of-control robot, but not people. Having money for free speech is oxymoronic since speech paid for it is never free. "Citizens United" should be "Citizens Exploited" or "Corporate Hegemony".

There are many ways to reframe the language.

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: gnu
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 07:06 PM

saulgoldie... "It has always been class warfare."

Where have I heard that before?

Too true. Not that the rich should be blamed for ensuring they stay rich. Even though, it ain't quite the right thing to do, especially when it involves killing so many people who needn't die. But... war is war eh? Sickening as it is.

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 07:23 PM

Note to American pols:

You can find the latest SAT scores, by state, here:

http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/sat/cb-seniors-2011/tables

As SAT scores sank to a new national low, the high-school upperclassmen of no fewer than 16 states and the District of Columbia made a collective mean score of below 500 in "Critical Reading."

That's 1/3 of all the states. Maine and DC were tied for rock-bottom, with scores of 469 each. Iowa did the best with 596.

The national average was 497.

The maximum score in "Critical Reading" is 800.

Making the national average equivalent to a grade of "D-".

These kids can vote the minute they hit 18! And their older siblings and pals are doing it now!

Rock the vote, demagogues!!

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 05:20 PM

Schools are often no measure of intelligence. It's true that an education can enhance this intelligence but as we see from some presidents and members of the Senate and Congress, education is no qualification for admittance.

Kids are the future and "Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand" (I can't believe I'm quoting Dylan!)

The old fart road is rapidly changing.

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 05:22 PM

That should also have read, intelligence is no qualification for admittance.

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Lighter
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 05:51 PM

It isn't about some abstract measure of "intelligence" in this case. Not at all.

It's about the ability of high-school seniors to read passages and show that they understand what the passages actually mean. It's about their ability to draw appropriate conclusions from the words in front of them.

And it's a multiple-choice test, too....

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 09:43 PM

Yeah, all those cuts to education funding, scholarships, aid to Stetes' education sustems & etc. initiated by The Sainted Reagan & pursued by the Repubs nationwide to date plus idiotic programs like 'No Child's Left Buttock' have worked a treat.

We've raised up a generation (or 2)of morons.

It'll only get worse....

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 09:57 PM

Stringsinger-"Kids are the future and "Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand" (I can't believe I'm quoting Dylan!)

The old fart road is rapidly changing."
The old fart road is cluttered with old farts who were kids when Dylan made is proclamation. THat future is right now.

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 10:17 PM

Huxley's "Brave New World" has come to pass and we now have an entire EPSILON NATION and they ain't too bright and they haven't been taught critical thinking skills

Bad news for the future of our nation as one job these kids are well qualified to do is: brown shirting... Very good at that...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Sep 11 - 09:02 AM

As I recall, the pre-boomer generation complained that boomers were blighting their minds with sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll.

I don't think they ever suggested we couldn't snap out of it, though. A simple haircut might do the trick.

Maybe today's kids *can't* snap out if it. Prove me wrong, boyzngirlz!

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Sep 11 - 01:24 PM

What you can do now. And good luck.

http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement/article/113526/what-it-takes-become-millionaire-cnbc?mod=retire-planning

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: bobad
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 09:50 PM

"I hear all this, 'well, this is class warfare, this is whatever'. No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear:

You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did."

- Elizabeth Warren

Subject: RE: BS: class warfare
From: michaelr
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 02:05 AM

Hear hear. That Elizabeth Warren should be head of the Federal Reserve.