BS: The PR campaign

Subject: BS: The PR campaign
From: GUEST,jts
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 01:12 PM

When I was in business school, 30 years ago, I learned that dollar for dollar PR was much more effective than direct advertising. I have learned that PR is much more effective when it doesn't look like it does not come from the entity that you are doing PR for.

From at least the time of Nixon the 1% have running a PR campaign to convince Americans that American values are only those values that support their interests. They have literally spent billions. This technique is more effective than beer ads or Proctor and Gamble soap ads or even Viagra ads.

This tide of PR is what the 99% movement is resisting. But can they be aware on just how ingrained this PR is in this country. Do they realize it is being constantly fed to them from every media source? From their parents, From their children, from their siblings, from their friends? Can real American values, and real Christian values and real family values overcome 40 years of persistent, expensive PR?

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 01:19 PM

Are you trolling, or do you really want an answer?

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: gnu
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 01:27 PM

JtS... "From their parents, From their children, from their siblings, from their friends?"

Huh?

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: Max
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 01:35 PM

I realize. My kids realize. Overcome it? Yes.

So, is this Jack the Sailor? You know we don't like guests starting BS threads, I am wondering why you are logged out? I know you are upset that this free Web site does not meet your standards and outraged that we are not catering to your demands, so, is this you acting out?

The majority of Americans? I don't know. I find myself reminding people sometimes of things like how diamonds for engagement rings as a tradition was actually a great marketing campaign, "Diamonds are Forever" from 1937. Grandma fell for it and young ladies today think it's been here forever. Seems like a lot don't know. That's really good PR.

Is it messing with us? Yes.

The fact that we had a 2 year national dialog on a nipple slip disgusts me. Our oppressive group norm of political correctness offends me. Socially, I'm non-standard, and I pay a price for that, and I'm OK with that, because I am provided the freedom to choose to pay the price or comply not forced.

We're talking about norms changing, not government. PR and consumerism is exerting its will, and doing a good job of it, but we're not being forced, rather coerced.

Yep, some are no match for 100 years of PR. But just like anything, we shouldn't be generalized, some Americans see right through it and either ignore it, are offended by it, or work in that industry.

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: Les from Hull
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 01:50 PM

I must agree, Max. It's not just the USA though, but they propably get it worse than most. It's one of the factors that is driving the greed that is ruining the World. Another is that people don't realise that 'fashion' is a tax on the gullible.

Good point about diamonds. Getting people to pay a fortune for a tiny shiny rock is one of the biggest con-tricks in the world, especially when people are being killed to get hold of themm to bypass the consortium that controls the price.

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: Max
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 01:59 PM

My larger point would be that we're active participants here. If greed ruins the world, we let it. I like to think that we're more powerful than that. Greed won't ruin my family and I know there's other good families around us. In short, I won't let Greed ruin my world, and my world is part of The World, so greed can't ruin the whole thing.

I don't like blaming anything for anything. I am in this world. We are the world. Blame yourself for anything in it. If something bothers you about it, do something, exert your will to change it or destroy it or assimilate it. Famine? Greed? Crime? Hate? It's all our faults and its all within our power to influence. I could just never allow myself to feel so helpless as to empower the world to have character or action without my approval and participation.

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: Max
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:10 PM

Jack? Come on out and play. Let's have a real conversation instead of the vols chasing you around the threads and deleting your passive aggressive outbursts that are just complaints about our ads and functionality and whatever else has hurt your feelings today. Tell ol' Max here what the problem is. Why no cookie? Why breaking the rules you know full well about? Why stirring pots you know are full of flammable grease?

I hear your cries for attention and am ready to provide you mine undivided. Talk to me.

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: GUEST,jts
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:15 PM

It is I Jack the Sailor, no not trolling. Just throwing out an idea to chew on. And yes it is other countries. Certainly Canada.

In hearing about Art Pope and his minions trying the cut the UNC university system while giving grants to NC State University to pay for "free market economists" to speak, I realized just how far it had come and ho pervasive it is. I think "Diamonds are forever" is a great example that part was advertising. Do you also remember Marilyn Monroe singing "Diamonds are a Girls Best Friend?" and all the TV shows and movies where the guy proposes with a diamond. and the "three months salary" guideline all of that was PR and I would wager, far more successful.

People in America, and in other countries, are conditioned to say "Free Market" as a religious market. My business professors and especially the Econ professors from the 1980 would laugh out loud to hear "Free Market" in the way Limbaugh or Mitch McConnell use it.

"Government is bad" is another example. We all make jokes with that theme. I would submit that we have been trained to do so. When I was young, such a joke would have had a good chance of being met with. "Government employees are hard working, educated professional people doing an impossible job, ie using scarce resources to try to satisfy everyone." And why not have people say that. It was true then. It is true now.

Gnu, do you hear untempered complaints about the civil service from those around you? You are pobably hearing the results of the PR. Do you laugh when Leno complains about the Post Office? You are mostly hearing the PR.

It is everywhere. It is ingrained. It is like the tide. I hope OWS has an effect before it is too late.

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:15 PM

Is this thread about Performing Rights, Proportional Representation, or Public Relations or Puerto Rico?

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: Max
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:29 PM

I think its about Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 03:00 PM

OK Max, If you want to talk, lets talk. I really don't care for or give a shit about your attention. I see you have NOT chosen to send me a PM so you apparently are inviting me to do it here.

If you don't want people people post below the lines without cookies. the answer is simple. Don't allow it. If you allow it, you are the one making the rules you should be prepared to maturely accept the consequence of your own actions. You and Katlaughing and whoever else who does this should pay attention to your own rules.

I did get a PM saying this.

>>Jack,

In case it was you who started a "google ads stalking" thread in the BS section, I wanted to remind you Guests are not allowed to start BS threads, so it was deleted. If you would like to discuss the ads, there is a thread up above HERE.

Thanks,

kat - moderator <<<


This would be well and good if threads like this one

>>Subject: Incredible UFO footage!!!
From: GUEST,josepp - PM
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 06:46 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A0t4og0K88&feature=related<<

Were not common. I don't blame KAT for applying the rules to GUEST,jts and not to GUEST,josepp, But I don't buy your statement I have quoted below either.

"I don't like blaming anything for anything. I am in this world."

In any case, it is not about blame. It is about being aware of the problem and doing something to correct it. In the case of the subject of this thread, OWS movement is a start as is making people aware that the PR campaign (which is many campaigns) exists.

In the case of what seems to me a double standard and arbitrary standards from you. I don't really have a problem with it. In general you are a good man with a good heart. If you hadn't brought it up and insulted my psychological health, I certainly would not be talking about it.

And just to clear, in the post that Kat deleted, I simply described accurately what was happening to me and said I hope that they were paying you well. What I meant by "I hope that they are paying you well" was "I hope that they are paying you well." I like the fact that the site is free and if them paying you well means free service. That is to the good. The thing about using Bing was also simply sincere feed back.

I searched a couple of days ago for pricing on screen printed coffee mugs. That company's ad is still following me on the Mudcat. Google ads for searched for things also follow me around Gmail. It is becoming annoying. I am considering trying my commercial searches on a platform other than Google. I thought that I would mention my experience to folks here and get their reaction. I am sorry that you took it personally. But I am aware that taking things personally is something you have tended to do in all the time I have known you.

In summary. I like free. I was not looking for attention. I didn't log in because I got a new PC and I didn't think it was a big deal. Which for other people like Breadedbruce and Josepp it apparently isn't. Keep up the good work. Please do not imply that I am mentally unsound. You and I have far more in common than we have differences. Sorry if I wasn't more clear.

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: gnu
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 03:04 PM

If you can find a vid of Ron White talking about the DuBeers' diamond ring commercials, watch it. It's good fer a laff.

JtS... ya know why the ferderal buildings in Ottawa have yellow stripes painted in the middle of their stairwells? So that those leaving early don't bump into those arriving late.

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 03:13 PM

Good one Gnu.

I have done contract work in the Government of Canada. I know they work hard. But I still laugh at the jokes. I was in University in a Business school, During the Reagan/Mulrooney/Thatcher years. I saw seeds being planted then that grew into an orchard that is just now fully producing.

The practical part of my brain tells me we are fucked. By definition, good sense and practical considerations will never have the marketing budget that commercial interests have. But we have to keep resisting the tide.

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 03:27 PM

BTW, Max, If you have an account rep from Google and he/she asks for feedback, you might suggest this. A button on the ad to tell them that you have read the material from that particular sponsor and decided NOT to do business with them.

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: Max
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 03:45 PM

Couldn't send jts a personal message, he wasn't a member.

And I made no comment about being mentally unsound I merely said "passive aggressive" and "cries for attention" and "acting out" none of which are mentally unsound.

My post said "don't like guests starting BS threads" not a rule. I know the vols say it as if its a rule, but you all love to argue with us so much that you inspect and take literal every word of us as if we're a law firm when in fact there's over a dozen folks making decisions and interfacing with the forum, that we have to use soft definitions of things.

Because you strive to catch us being duplicitous, and celebrate when you think you do. Odd hobby but hey... who am I to judge.

We have to leave it loose because of an occasional mistake, an occasional logged out member with a sincere post. The fella that posted the night his wife died forgot to log in. Or Mike Seeger passing through. I was surprised and you were lucky that you didn't complain about those two. Hell, y'all even jumped down my throat once for posting as a guest while testing. Crazy man.

Truth is, I never promised you fairness or a single standard. Never was if offered. You just assume it. Our judgement are more complex than the black and white you try to force us into explaining to you. And you only want it explained so you can find its weaknesses and exploit them. So if its not obvious why someone else gets to do something that you do not, then you are just not seeing the bigger picture that we are or you make us feel uneasy.

We're nitpicked all damn day. Maybe I'm trigger happy today, but GUEST,jts was on our radar for a couple days and knowing it was you and knowing that you were starting a thread as a guest which we knew and now you admit was an going to be an issue, I had to address it publicly. And some of these words apply to more than just you.

Wow, so it did turn out black and white. And your "I didn't think it was a big deal. Which for other people like Breadedbruce and Josepp it apparently isn't." is, by the sour grapes flip flop in back to back sentences as your admission, untrue.

You clearly had it in mind when you created this thread.

The only standard that you need to know about is that if we feel at ease with your human decency, sense of reason and of control, you are permitted to do most anything you want here. So making us feel at ease is all you need to worry about. Sometimes meeting us in person helps, sometimes being a pleasant person helps, sometimes being the bigger person helps. Being passive aggressive never helps.

So, we good?

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: BTNG
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 03:51 PM

The ads are also set for whatever location a person happens to be in, I'm getting an idiot one for the nightlife in this city (such as it is) Regina After Dark (they roll up the sidewalks)

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: Max
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 03:52 PM

Thanks for your expertise Jack, I didn't realize you knew so very much about these things, but we're well aware of the Google Ad situation.

We earn between 15% and 100% more on the ads that are personalized.

We don't store or read any data here that's all Google, and your actually wrong when you say they get it only from your searches and and other assumptions you are making about dangers or privacy or annoyance or whatever your grievance is.

That works out to be about $6000 for the year. If you'd prefer to pay the bills it covers for us, I'll be happy to turn them off, I don't care for their aesthetics anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 04:54 PM

I am glad you are making that much more. It makes the ads easier to take. I seriously actually mean that.

I am not expressing expertise. Just my preference. I noticed today that my searches are following me pretty much everywhere on the Web. Especially from that one mug company. I would very much like to turn them off. But I expect that in future, I think I can avoid such things by doing more commercial searches in Bing or some other search engine. This will hurt Google a little, but not enough to detect and should not have an adverse effect on your ad business.

Subject: RE: BS: The PR campaign
From: Max
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 05:07 PM

We can't hurt Google. There's no rep that gives a damn about my feedback.

When I was shopping for a car, same thing happened to me. All I saw was car ads for 2 months. It generates more revenue because it actually is more likely to show you something you are interested in. We get 400% more clicks on them in addition to their higher rate. Trippled our take the first month I allowed them.

Mudcat 2.0 will only have ads for BS section and non-members. So a logged-in member that stays out of the red light district will never see an ad.

Hang in there everyone.