BS: corpse found on the queen's estate

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 01:00 PM

This thread is now closed.

kat - mod

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 12:19 PM

Well I'm outraged at that, Keith. No-one, for ANY reason whatsoever should desecrate a dead body as those US Marines did. Not even if the dead body belonged to Jack the Ripper. As some of us have already asked, "Where is Respect, Decency and Dignity??"

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 12:14 PM

Silas, thanks for sharing that.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 09:16 AM

I'm guessing that some of those who have found this story a source for some ribaldry, are outraged that some marines peed on the corpses of legally killed Taleban killers and terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Silas
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 07:43 AM

I don't find this thread funny in the slightest and I would like you to read the following - it may explain why. I should point out that I operate a weekly 'diary' post to a lot of local folkies just o that everyone knows what is going on locally. Although the following has little to do with folk music, it may just make some people here think a little before making crass and flippant remarks.

"Hi Everyone
Can I ask that you indulge me for a few minutes and allow me to share with you something that happened to me yesterday at work? I would not normally use this mailing list for any other purpose than to inform about folk music events, but this incident has affected me deeply and I think it important.
Yesterday morning I was at work just sorting out my day and checking emails etc when a guy wondered up from the service department and started looking around the cars. I thought I recognised him but couldn't quite place him (a constant problem in retail sales I'm afraid). I went over to ask if he needed any help and as soon as he spoke I knew him to be my Maths teacher from Walton school, Hu Jones, a guy I had not seen for over forty years! Believe it or not he actually remembered me and described a couple of things that I was involved with at school that I had completely forgotten, I was, to tell the truth, quite flattered at the time to think that he would have remembered me after all of these years. We were chatting about the good old days for about ten minutes when he dropped his bombshell. He said that he was not the man he was, he had a life changing experience 3 years ago. I thought he was going to say that he has had a stroke or perhaps lost his wife, I was not at all prepared for what he came out with.
His only daughter, Moira was working in Glasgow, she was something of a 'high flyer' with an international company and she returned home in her car one evening and was abducted, raped and brutally murdered, beaten to death in fact. The police apparently said that her ordeal could have lasted up to two and a half hours and she was abused in every imaginable way. It appears that her attacker just picked her at random and she was unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time – it could have been anyone. Her attacker was caught and is now serving life with a minimum twenty-five year sentence and will be deported back to Eastern Europe on his eventual release.
Hu told me all this with a quiet dignity that was, to say the least, humbling, but what he then went on to say was just as moving.
After the incident, Hu his wife and Son were all receiving counselling (and still are) and were put in touch with support groups for families of victims of violent crime. Hu told me that he found the stories of other families to be quite shocking. It appears that most victims of these sorts of crimes either know or have some connection with their attacker, and in the vast majority of cases, both victims and perpetrators are either from very poor backgrounds or are socially deprived in other ways. Hu and his family are fairly middle class and were shocked to find that the families of some victims could not afford the funeral of their loved one. One case he told me was of a young lady whose partner had killed their little daughter and she was due to give evidence in court but was ashamed to appear because she could not afford any clothes to attend in, all she had were jeans, tee shirts and jumpers.
Despite having to cope with their own tragedy, Hu and his family decided to set up a charitable body to help families of other victims and in remembrance of their daughter, it is called the Moira fund. It is a small and locally based charity.
So, to cut to the quick, if we do eventually manage to put on the 'Music Hall / Variety Night' – how does anyone feel about donating some of the proceeds to this worthwhile cause?
If you want to look up Moira's story or get more details of Moira's fund just Google Moira Jones – Glasgow.

Thanks for taking the time to read this – I promise not to do it again.

Cheers
Steve"


If you have read so far thank you. If it has made you think, then thank you again.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 07:31 AM

Yeh and some people wouldn't know sensitivity in their dealings with mankind, even if it bit them on the bollocks.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 06:47 AM

I haven´t been on recently due to travel, I had heard about this murder through a phone call to home. I have just read all of the posts above, and to be honest, some of them are sick. Richard, like myself you have a daughter. This is not a subject to joke about.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 06:43 AM

Good post Kat. None of us can ever understand the pain her family are going through. When she left her native home, think of the hugs and kisses and warning after warning to be careful. I did it with all of my own children as they left to travel abroad.

Some posts above are beyond words.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 06:39 AM

Another point - don't use your sensitivity to bully other people, and cause distress to other elderly mudactters.

Simple facts of the matter - corpse in my backyard - front page of the Dorset Echo. Third item on the local news.

Corpse on the Queen's pheasant shoot - a place in history. Along with the princes in the tower, MI5 plots, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 03:26 AM

"Backwoodsman, I know the two situations are totally different. My point is,some people tend to handle sad news by not handling them at all.
I've never learned to deal with grief. The thought of my old dog under three feet of dirt and two feet of snow still gets to me. In this case, humor fails me."

Understood, Kendall. Good point, well made (didn't expect any less!).

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Bert
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 10:20 PM

Right gnu.

Now let's get back to being tasteless.

I didn't know that Cheney went hunting at Sandringham!

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: gnu
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 08:06 PM

"of the dead speak kindly or not at all"

That's the deal, Ricky... NObody spoke ill of the dead. NOOOObody. Not once. NObody made jokes about the girl. Not one. That's why the thread has been tainted. False accusations. And I and others still deserve an apology for that.

Was my joke about about Betty tasteless? Yeah, it was. And I thought it was funny or I would not have posted it. I addressed that, more than once. To draw some inane inference that I, or others, were making a joke about the poor girl is unacceptable to me.

After being accused falsely and subsequently assailed, I asked a simple question. There have been no answers because it cannot be answered. It did not happen.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 06:45 PM

"Catholic adage, dic nihil nisi bonum de mortuis ( of the dead speak kindly or not at all)"

Surely we have grown out of this, haven't we?

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 06:11 PM

Elza, I'm entirely behind you on this one. I, too, often ask myself, in my own neck of the woods (so far from the UK):Whither respect? Quite plainly, it has all but vanished from the face of the earth.

GUEST, please remember to post using a consistent "Guest, Name" otherwise you risk having your postings in the BS section deleted. Thanks, a mod.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 05:40 PM

Mudcat just keeps scraping the bottom of the barrel; just when I think it can't get any worse, some other new thread gets started, grabbing "news entertainment" from FOX-like sources or not, but still starting the ball rolling down the gutter until it gets into a he-said-I-said-she said pissing match.

I feel sorry for the girl's family and for her life ending at such a young age. Like JohninKansas, I read early reports which noted the vast size of the estate and the lack of anything to infer the royal family had anything to do with it.

In my moderator's opinion, this thread has devolved into nothing more than the usual and is ready for closure. I won't until I ask a couple of other mods to check it out. In the meantime, I leave you with these:

By swallowing evil words unsaid, no one has ever harmed his stomach.

Winston Churchill

"So many gods, so many creeds, So many paths that wind and wind, While just the art of being kind Is all the sad world needs."

-Ella Wheeler Wilcox (1850-1919); American author, poet

And, here are more to contemplate: FocusOnKindness.

katsad, mod

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 05:31 PM

I think there is a very unenglish lack of phlegm about some of this.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 04:28 PM

Backwoodsman, I know the two situations are totally different. My point is,some people tend to handle sad news by not handling them at all.
I've never learned to deal with grief. The thought of my old dog under three feet of dirt and two feet of snow still gets to me. In this case, humor fails me.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: gnu
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 03:50 PM

Right... I simply have to respond in public to the latest PM, to wit, here is my response to that PM...

Certainly not out of character for me. When I am accused of doing something I did not do, I stand up for myself... and for others who are falsely accused. I have done this many times at Mudcat and I shall continue to do so.

I will not have my character FALSELY attacked. Especially by anyone who cannot simply apologize for that false attack. My character was correctly attacked on an entirely different point and I have answered that attack. I have no problems with the truth. I have problems with lies, people twisting words, and people putting words in my mouth that I did not utter.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: gnu
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 03:27 PM

"You've been splitting hairs all over this thread." Not even once. On the contrary, YOU have been manufacturing false hairs.

"And if "Shove your sausage up your ass" isn't a personal attack, I don't know what is." It's not. Get some logic. Calling people names and saying the are "short of a sausage... twerp... stoopid and boorish... " certainly is. And, BTW, I was told to fuck off. By your logic, youse are guilty... in print.

"Now, since you've brought our conversation down to personal insults,..." I never did... you did... everyone who has read this thread knows it. Time for you to stop posting inane lies.

"who pursues a apecious argument using highly-suspect logic" Can't you READ? My question, which NObody has answered because NObody can find evidence to prove what I and others were accused of, is NOT rocket science. It's a simple question... and you cannot offer any evidence to refute my statements because none exists. If it did, I would apologize. Unlike some posters.

And, as far as twisting your OWN words to insinuate that Ebbie is incorrect in any way in her posts... are you fucking serious?! Do you NOT realize how that makes you look the the readers? Own up to what ya post if got any balls.

I think I have made my points sufficiently... and youse certainly have... yet again. Why you continue to make asses of yourselves is beyond me.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 02:11 PM

From Joe Offer:

Sorry, but that's the way it is. I intend no disrespect; but to me, Alisa Dmitrijeva is just a news item and a name I can't pronounce. I hope that she has family and friends who will grieve her loss - that's the grieving that makes a difference.

Bearing in mind it's highly likely that friends and family will stumble over this thread eventually, how do you feel about some of the comments written above?

Personally I find this one of the most disturbing threads I've read here.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:59 PM

Fine, Kendall, but the circumstances were significantly different to the ones here - in your case it was a private moment, you all knew the deceased who had died a 'natural' death I guess, presumably everyone was very emotional, and a little wry, personal lightheartedness helped you all to get through a bad moment. Been there myself. No problem.

In the case here, it's about a young vulnerable girl, little more than a child, living in a foreign land, who had been brutally murdered and suffered God knows what at the hands of her abuser(s) in the period leading up to her death, and the "jokes" were made on a public forum where others were expressing horror and condolences. Whether they were directed at the girl or the Royal Family matters not one jot - they were inappropriate in the circumstances.

There's a short phrase in the English language that some of us still value - "Common decency" - which means "behaving respectfully" at times such as these. Others can think of me in whatever way they like, I don't give a toss, but I don't, and won't, apologise to anyone for my belief in those two words.

Nothing personal intended there, Kendall, you and I know one another and we both have our own strong feelings and beliefs, and we sometimes need to express them in our own way.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:57 PM

I agree, kendall, sometimes a little joke can ease the tension. But you weren't joking in any way about the passing of your father were you? And if anyone had done such a thing, you'd have been horrified and very distressed. I just think the flippant remarks and quips about the finding of this poor girl (and it would be the same if it were an old man) a sad indication of the insensitivity of some people. Where is respect?

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:56 PM

Why so, Raptor? There are times to laugh and times to cry. I am sorry for people who cannot recognise which is which.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Raptor
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:50 PM

You need to laugh or you'll cry.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:30 PM

Think this one over. True story.

It had been a long cold, snowy winter. In the spring my Father died. After the service we were all standing around in the yard by the funeral home, (All but Dad), and suddenly, it started to snow.
I made an offhand comment, "God, I hope that's dandruff."
No one was horrified, they welcomed it as a relief from the tension.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Max Johnson
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 12:57 PM

I usually stay clear of threads such as this, but I feel obliged to say that the fact that anyone would make jokes about the very recent murder of a 17 year-old girl simply beggars belief.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 11:17 AM

Last week I went to the funeral of a friend's young daughter who was murdered. Pleased to report no-one there was making jokes.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 11:07 AM

Your words would go to William Tell overture.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 09:24 AM

It depends who's opposing what.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 09:07 AM

remind me again Richard.......are you playing for us, or the opposition this week?

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 08:37 AM

A rambler named Dmitrijeva
Paused, for a rest from her labour.
Along a Prince came,
Who said "Are you game?"
"YES!". So both barrels he gave her.


In the best traditions of "The Setting of the Sun".

But it isn't a joke about her. It's a joke about people who only shoot game.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 08:19 AM

No wonder so many people believe in an after life. They have to to deal with this kind of evil.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 07:32 AM

It is sad that a 17 year old should come to harm alone so far away from her family, her life should be just beginning.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 07:17 AM

"Or perhaps you should work on the villain thing, and becaome a legend - like Jesse James."

LOL Al! Come on, you know me - I'm just a big softie, I could never be like JJ! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 06:40 AM

Thoughts are with her family, God help them, she was a child.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 06:07 AM

100

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 05:11 AM

I'm sure no one calls you a villain Strolling John. Or perhaps you should work on the villain thing, and becaome a legend - like Jesse James.

Strolling Johnny was villain
A folksinging man, who lived near Lincoln town.
They quaked in fear - near and far
When he strapped on his guitar
And put on his trousers of brown.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 03:34 AM

Oh, and BTW Ebbie, if you want to quote me, no problem - knock yourself out - but please use the quote in full and in context.

What I said was:-
"I don't know who you are either, Gnu, I haven't a clue, but I'd like to. I'd love to find out if you really are the twerp you give the impression of being on here. I have a strong suspicion it's all a big act and you're not as stoopid and boorish as you want us all to think you are! :-) :-)"

Now I believe that the whole quote indicates that I was trying to be conciliatory and lighthearted, and I believe that anyone who isn't personally acquainted with Gnu and/or taking his side in the argument can see that too, whereas your isolation of the 'stoopid and boorish' bit was nothing more than an attempt to 'stand up for' Gnu and somehow make me the villain. I thought better of you.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 03:09 AM

Specifically, I have had a fake Facebook account, had my adress and phone number posted here, information about my daughter and filthy lies about my step-daughter.
Only supply your info. by pm.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 02:58 AM

I often wish I had not been so open with my ID.
Some nasty people read our stuff sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 02:45 AM

apecious??????? WTF?? specious!

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 02:44 AM

Ebbie, I couldn't agree more with what you say but, sadly, Gnu's posts give the impression of someone stoopid and boorish, who pursues a apecious argument using highly-suspect logic, and indulges themselves in ranting, aggressive posts.

And impressions are all we have to judge anyone by on here.

I'm sorry if I misjudged Gnu, but I don't have the benefit of knowing him personally the way you do, and his posts, and the impressions they create, are his responsibility, not mine.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:17 AM

Al & Mike, thanks for the definition of "McGuffin." It's amazing, the things you learn at Mudcat. I like Hitchcock but have seen only his major films. Looks like I'll have to look into him more deeply.

But Hitchcock seems very appropriate in this case. There is a touch of graveyard humor to the story, and Hitchcock often was very humorous in his stories. And yes, it's a darn good mystery.

I suppose many thought Hitchcock irreverent, but I've loved every Hitchcock movie I've seen. This story would make a perfect Hitchcock movie plot.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:06 AM

But that is the point, Ebbie. How are we to do that if, for all his saying, we haven't the remotest idea who he is?

So come out, Gary [as I gather from Ebbie's post you are called], & ID yourself, so that we may 'famiiliarise ourselves' with you as Ebbie is privileged to be able to do.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 01:00 AM

you're not as stoopid and boorish as you want us all to think you are! :-) :-) Backwoodsman

Well, I do know Gary and "stoopid and boorish" is very far from what he is. It should behoove anyone who uses such terms to describe anyone should first familiarise themselves with the person.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 12:41 AM

.....& who any of us who use a handle instead of our real name, for that matter? But strangely, there are people I know from here, but whom I don't know from Adam in the Real World, yet I feel they are my friends. And the converse is true also - How does that work?

"Anon Canuck? Everyone knows my name and address."

I don't know who you are either, Gnu, I haven't a clue, but I'd like to. I'd love to find out if you really are the twerp you give the impression of being on here. I have a strong suspicion it's all a big act and you're not as stoopid and boorish as you want us all to think you are! :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 11:55 PM

... & who Shimrod, for that matter?

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 11:51 PM

gnu ~ I don't know your name & address. So may I have them please? By PM or on here.

No special reason, but you say everyone knows them so I feel a bit left out.

Anyhow one of the troubles with the nickname system also is that, even after my 2½ yrs on the Cat, there are still lots of members who get knowingly ref'd on threads, leaving me mystified & at a disadvantage; e.g. Suibhne [I do know who he] mentioned yesterday that he likes my singing & also Shimrod's; & as I don't know who the hell Shimrod is I have no way of listening to him sing, tho I should obvsly like to after such a recommendatn.

So gnu ~~ who you?

Best

~Michael Grosvenor Myer~

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 11:51 PM

Ever heard of 'splitting hairs' gnu? It means using false logic to legitimise/validate some spurious argument. You've been splitting hairs all over this thread.

And if "Shove your sausage up your ass" isn't a personal attack, I don't know what is. It also indicates your inability to carry on a rational and civilised discussion.

Now, since you've brought our conversation down to personal insults, here's one for you (or perhaps, in that strange gnu-speak language you employ, I should say "youse", whatever the fuck "youse" means)....FOXTROT ROMEO OSCAR.

Subject: RE: BS: corpse found on the queen's estate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 09:38 PM

Gnu may I refer you to my explanation from the first few messages.

"The English folk people have got being po-faced and exhibiting no sense of humour down to a fine art."

You're a good guy Gnu, don't let this nonsense perturb you. anyone who looks at the thread about Severn's recent illness can see that you're one of the good guys - full of humanity, decency, etc.

If some member of folk royalty writes a murder ballad about this incident next week - they'll all be brown-nosing like the world supply of crap is on the edge of extinction.

Of course you and me won't be hailed as visionaries. Its called a class system - we aren't of sufficiently high status to be accorded the right to think original thoughts. you have to think the same way as everyone else (in the tradtion) express yourself the same way everyone else does (the tradition strikes again) and most of all - know your place!