BS: The mirror test for apes

Subject: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 07:44 PM

Sooo, I'm watchin Daily Planet on the Discovery Channel and buddy says that, if you put a dot of paint on Chongo's forehead and then hold up a mirror and Chongo scratches the dot of paint on his forehead it means Chongo has self-awareness. That is, he recogizes himself in the mirror.

Stunned as me arse that is. He obviously is tryin ta tell the monkey in the mirror that someome asshole put a dot a paint on his forehead. And they call themselves scientists! The monkey is smarter than them. Of course, they get $$$ to make such studies and we pay by the banana.

I think I should apply for a grant to study why little old ladies in shopping malls wander randomly like ants. They know what they are looking for but the search is random... it's hit and miss. Is there a link between the behaviour of little old ladies in shopping malls and ants? Maybe I can get an endorsement for my grant from David Suzuki?

Anyone else got any ideas for a taxpayer funded study?

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: Little Robyn
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 08:18 PM

But if you really watch the ants, you'll find they all walk in line, one after the other, following some sort of invisible trail and if you scrub out their trail, they'll search around, like little old ladies, until they locate it again.
I haven't noticed trails of little old ladies.
But it's an interesting thought.
I'm sure the monkey can feel something yucky on it's head and would probably try scratching it off whether it was looking in a mirror or not.
I think I'll have a banana now.
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 08:37 PM

Little Robyn... nope. They only follow each other when they are "on the march" or when they have found a food source. It's all about the "scents" they leave on their trail. The ants, I mean. But, same will surely be in the study as a an uncontrolled group. The old ladies, I mean.

The suggestion that the paint would cause Chongo to scratch in any circumstance is indeed a significant contribution to this research. If grant is obtained and a team is amassed, I surely hope you will agree to participate in this important research. Your insight is obviously outside the mall.

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 10:33 PM

Has. I'm an old lady and I don't wander around in groups. Only single file.

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 10:49 PM

"I think I should apply for a grant to study why little old ladies in shopping malls wander randomly like ants."

No offense, but you've misspelled aunts.

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 11:10 PM

If Ebbie wasn't on this thread I say what I really want to say. In the words of the prophet, shazpot!

Ants follow a scent trail. They seem to organize themselves according to 'rules' written in their past, their genes. Pheromones, a subtle substance capable of recalling us all to a distant past we may or may not have had, make the path they follow one and only one direction: straight ahead.

They are amazing creatures, but pheromones are an amazing substance. They are, imo, the drug that will eclipse peyote, psilocybin, Delta-9 THC and alcohol, or at least that's what I've heard.

I'm listening to Willie Nelson's My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys. If I was riding a horse, I'd have tears in my eyes. I ain't and I don't. BUT, I'll tell you one thing: if pheromones was floatin' around I'd be checkin' out the clouds, and the ants would be checkin' out each other.

Amen.

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 11:32 PM

Chimpanzee scientists have been studyin' stuff like this with human test subjects too. We been doin' these studies for decades. What we found out was...if you paint a dot on a human's ass, there is a 98% chance he will not even notice it unless you place a mirror behind him and another mirror in front of him and then draw his attention TO his ass, by saying to him: "Hey, Roscoe, notice anything on your ass?"

Then the likelihood of him noticing the dot increases by a factor of 85%.

This is only for human men, though. Human women almost always notice right away if there is a dot on their ass (pardon the term...I should have been more polite, considerin' that it is women I am speakin' of...change that to "derriere", would ya?). Anyways, this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that human women are at least 10 times smarter on average than human men...which is no news to me!

It makes ya wonder why the women ain't runnin' the place, don't it? I would be pretty much in favor of exportin' most of the human men to some uninhabited island somewhere and lettin' the women take over. Women are usually better negotiators, cos they are willin' to look at both sides. And they are nicer to kids and animals. I'm bettin' that a country run by women and primates would function a whole lot better than one run by a buncha damn "suits" like Donald Trump and Al Gore, etc.

Okay...now what I want you all to do now is drop yer pants, bend over, and take a good look at your ass. Is there a dot there? If there is, who put it there? And why?

If yer too stiff to "assume the position", get a mirror. Find out now if you have a dot on yer ass, and I'll mail you instructions for what to do next if ya send me 5 dollars. No cheques! I take only cash or Paypal.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 12:15 AM

There is absolutely nothing "random" about little old ladies at the mall, and they don't in the least resemble ants.

The paths taken by a majority of them are completely and perfectly predicted from the simple fact that their feet hurt. Careful observation will show that in the vast percentage of cases, each path is divided into short segments, each segment of which will always take them from "near one sitting place" to within a very specifically predictable distance of the next available "sitting place," so that in case they decide they need to sit for a while they will be within a short distance of an appropriate place and will not need to stop and look for a next place to stop and rest.

(Stopping and looking at anything can be quite hazardous for little old ladies due to the ubiquitous presence - especially in malls - of young $@%#^$ !!!!! who feel compelled to "help" at the slightest suggestion that someone who quite probably taught them how to wipe their own ass and wipe the drool of their chins (both often unsuccessfully) might be an opportunity for some brownie points if they annoy them with inane !$@@%#!! suggestions and offers of unneeded and unwanted "help.")

A comprehensive study of the consistency of "wanders" of little old ladies and little old men was conducted decades ago by a young $@%# @%&^*# $@%!! who intended to survey whether little old men stop more frequently at the windows of gadget shops or at Victoria's Secret. Failing to recognize that a majority of little old men look a lot like little old women, and that the converse is also quite frequently the case, it was necessary to repeat the surveys multiple times before the particular researchers learned to make an accurate distinction. As a consequence of the repeated studies, and the massive amounts of "data" collected as a result, additional distinctive categories were introduced and separately analysed (albeit mostly incompetently). The resulting papers represent the best known source for accurate predictions of crowd movements in malls in general, and are used by a majority of commercial advertisers.

Only an illiterate YOUNG #@!$!% could possible be sufficiently unaware of those results to even think of "making fun" of old ladies on the flimsy excuse that it's an attempt at "humor." (Probably some young punk not even eligible for Medicare, or whatever passes for the equivalent in his/her (one can never tell) obviously backward "culture" (a euphemism). It is assured that his/her feet will hurt too, should the smart*ss person reach "the age of maturity," which is quite unlikely to happen if he/she doesn't quit having Bubba (or Emmylou) hold his/her beer in order to engage in frequent "macho (or butch?) activities."

John

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 12:50 AM

Quite incidentally, very recent research reports that "dogs think more like humans than chimps do."

The test consisted of whether you could point at something and have the responding animal realize you wanted them to look where you pointed. Some breeds of dogs do an excellent job of responding as you intend. Chimps, in the tests, didn't do quite as well.

The assertion that the dogs responded "more like humans" may be open to some question, as when I'd point and say "Look at that" one ex-wife would carefully examine the end of my finger, and never thought of looking outside where I pointed. (But note she is an ex-wife.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 03:58 AM

Having once had tenants in my late mother's bungalow who moved his senile mother in, please take it from me that little old ladies DO leave a trail.

I had to replace ALL the carpets.

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 09:52 AM

Chongo, your cousin Bobby Baboon has an ass as red as a PEI sunset and a mean streak that would make Attila The Hun look like a dear friend. When he reads your comments you could be in big trouble! Is that why you tried to fake your death?

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 11:39 AM

Gnu: Your theory about chimps would be easily tested. Put a dot on one chimp's forehead and then allow another chimp to see him. If the second chimp immediately touches his own forehead, then this would confirm your theory. My guess is, he'd more likely try to touch the first chimp's forehead.

Scientists have discovered some amazing things about the intelligence of chimpanzees. I saw this in a video the other day—

They showed a chimp a video touch-screen with the numbers from 1 to 9 scattered in random locations on the screen. They first taught him to touch the numbers in order: 1, then 2, etc. He learned to do this very reliably, no matter how the numbers were scattered.

Then they made it a little harder. They showed him the numbers for a few seconds, and then all the numbers were replaced by black dots. He could still touch the dots in the correct order. In other words, he had memorized the locations of the numbers.

Then they decreased the time he was allowed to look at the numbers. When the numbers were only flashed on the screen for a fraction of a second, he could still touch the dots in the correct order, and he could do this more reliably than any human.

It's getting kind of scary.

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: olddude
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 11:54 AM

Rap volunteered to put his laser red dot site on his forehead for free

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: gnu
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 01:02 PM

Jim... cool!

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 02:01 PM

Now, little old ladies in malls are usually looking for a toilet. So they wander here and there looking for the sign for 'toilet'. After the toilet, they're looking for Boots the Chemist to buy some support stockings. Then they're looking for the toilet again. Ad infinitum. Not the same as ants.

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 04:26 PM

You are right about Bobby Baboon, Sandy. That crazy mango-stealer is one nasty piece-a work, but there ain't nothin' I could say that would make him any nastier than he is now, cos he has already maxed out the meter, if ya know what I mean. I keep an ex-Yankees baseball bat by the door, special for him, and I keep hopin' to get another chance to use it.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: gnu
Date: 17 Feb 12 - 04:46 PM

Apparently, very few of you have actually observed little old ladies in malls. As for ants following scents laid by fellow ants, that is not what I was talking about as I tried to explain above. Also, apparently, few of you have observed ants randomly searching for food. Making a one inch circle across one's own trail doesn't appear to me to be "organized" or "focussed".

Making fun of little old ladies? Perhaps it might be construed as that. Perhaps it could be construed as, "Why not go up and down the aisles in succesion and LOOK for whatever rather than skipping aisles and saying, "I guess they don't have any of those anymore." without actually looking. That is, searching like an ant instead of like a human.

At the risk of further digging myself into a hole, I shall extend this trait to women of all ages. As a man, I do not skip aisles after I have read the signs posted to guide me to what I want and failed. I coordinate a proper search, during which I also seek out help from store staff... IF I can find out where they are hiding.

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Feb 12 - 12:47 AM

How about men randomly searching for women? I've seen a fair bit of that.

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: gnu
Date: 18 Feb 12 - 07:09 AM

Hahahahaa.

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Feb 12 - 10:42 AM

A huge government grant to study the curse words used when engines don't start (like snow blowers, chain saws and cars). It could be done throughout the year, to see if the cursing varies by season.
The grant would have to be big, as it would have to look at folks in different countries and temperatuire zones.

Subject: RE: BS: The mirror test for apes
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Feb 12 - 12:59 PM

Monkeys are superior to men in this: When a monkey looks into a mirror, he sees a monkey. Malcolm de Chazal