BS: Shooting tragedies and guns

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 18 Nov 19 - 09:02 AM

"At least 10 people were shot and four of them were killed at a family gathering in Fresno, California, on Sunday evening, authorities said."

USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Nov 19 - 09:27 PM

Some thoughtful lyrics to be found in Sondheim:

Everybody's Got the Right

A Little Finger

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: leeneia
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 01:13 PM

I'm against guns myself, mostly. But we need to figure out why certain people (mostly young, white, male and unhappy) are going off the rails. Because if they don't have guns, they start fires, drive cars into crowds, plant bombs...

There are probably other crimes I haven't thought of.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 16 Nov 19 - 08:29 AM

And the hits just keep coming! Thanks, Republican assholes!

At least two people were injured in a shooting in the stands of a high school football game in Pleasantville, New Jersey on Friday, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 09:44 PM

As exhibited above, there is an amount of complexity to the issue that makes simple statements and snap reactions impede our discussion of and mutual understanding of the issue.

The other point I'd make, separately from the one above (which I owe to Michael Connelly, writer of the Prey series), is the statement of Wayne LaPierre that “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” This ignores that the gun itself is not neutral in that statement; for it reveals a good guy to be a bad guy all too often.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Charmion
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 06:52 PM

Defiance is the trait I see most clearly in those representing themselves as Second Amendment fundamentalists. That whole “pry it from my cold, dead fingers” stuff is nothing more than coat-trailing, and the oft-repeated assertions that “good guys” need guns to protect others, and themselves, is mere chest-beating.

Mr Trump positively radiates defiance, much in the style of a cornered raccoon. It’s not a good look in a head of state whose country is unlikely to be invaded any time soon.

School shooters who leave some account of their motives also display defiance — getting back at those who have done them wrong.

But the normal response to any display of defiance is hostility and violence. And away you go.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 03:52 PM

elaborate?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Charmion
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 11:35 AM

More and more, I am convinced that defiance is far more of a problem than a solution to any concentration of humans.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 10:18 AM

and now Santa Clarita. USA! USA! USA! USA!

Be sure to phone your Republican Senators and Representatives and tell them what fusking assholes they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 06:46 AM

The folks here did something that Republican politiians did not.
They talked about this.

Jeri, yes no mass shootings but there have been gun incidents in the Capitol building and many shootings/killings on the stepss.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 04:34 AM

Apologies if I misread that post, Robo. I must promise myself not to kneejerk when I see those tired words that constituted the first two lines.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 19 - 02:48 AM

Sounded to me as though Robo was making a case, albeit rather obtusely, for tight gun-control, Steve?

And I agree with Jeri. You’d soon see some action in Congress if a gun-nut took a few of them out.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 09:00 PM

Well, that's a complete failure to understand what someone wrote.

Don, another place immune is Congress. I don't want more mass shootings, but people will tolerate bad things until those bad things hit them where they live. Ivory towers are safe places.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 08:47 PM

That sounds like typical bollocks from a gun carrier.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 08:42 PM

Guns don't kill people

People kill people

Guns just make it very very easy

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 06:46 PM

Santa Clarita, yes?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 06:11 PM

The list of kinds of locations for mass shootings in the US is long.

The ONE PLACE that mass shootings have NOT ocurred is an
NRA Convention

Perhaps they should not be immune.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Nov 19 - 04:27 PM

Another school shooting today in Santa Clarity. Two kids dead. I bet you gun nuts are proud you have laws that allowed that to happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Aug 19 - 12:02 PM

It's not *just* whiteness, though that certainly helps. It is the attitude that violence is *justified* for the most minor upsets. I had a conversation with a parent who was teaching their small boy to "stand up to" insults and to punch other children in the face if they (the son) felt offended. I taught my sons to walk away from assholes, to keep their temper even if offended, and to use their words- not their fists, against said assholes. The other parent was horrified.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Aug 19 - 05:14 PM

Well... no doubt there is some relation...but the major fact is just that guns were totally tied into US history and growth and became 'the norm' for so many. Once there were a couple hundred million guns... legal and illegal... and an industry which needed to sell even more to survive, it was natural that those with hate & anger issues often turned to violence to..um... 'prove something'... or just to express high testosterone levels.
   A few years ago in Wash DC, a young black guy in jail was interviewed by some reporter and asked why his community so often settled disagreements with gun. He shrugged and said that one never knew whether he could win in a fair fight... but if you had a gun and were careful, it was just "easier", and you knew that the other guy probably had one, too. Not much of an answer, but when so many attitudes were already that way, it just became a way of life.
Now of course, social media and publicity make the idea of using greater firepower to express your anger & hate even more enticing.
   I see that there are rumblings in Congress to try something again.... I'm not holding my breath.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 09 Aug 19 - 08:14 PM

Interesting observations- especially in The Age Of Trump:

Why does the United States refuse to pass new gun control laws? It’s the question that people around the world keep asking.

According to Dr Jonathan Metzl, a psychiatrist and sociologist at Vanderbilt University, white supremacy is the key to understanding America’s gun debate. In his new book, Dying of Whiteness: How the Politics of Racial Resentment is Killing America’s Heartland, Metzl argues that the intensity and polarization of the US gun debate makes much more sense when understood in the context of whiteness and white privilege.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/08/racism-gun-control-dying-of-whiteness

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 07:50 PM

Those who posted after me have made some valid & important points. All I knew was that Trump had been greeted by the queen, even if it was a 'limited' way.... and that most Brits were not happy with him being there. I also was aware of his discourteous behavior at the D-day ceremony.
   I hope he never manages to set foot in the UK again... (and I hope it is because he is in jail!)

It is now beyond embarrassing and verging on absolute danger to the USA, the UK and every place in the world he affects.
He has only one goal now... to either win again and avoid being prosecuted for his crimes or to be 'pardoned' by his toady VP, Pence.

   The daily news, in all aspects, is so unpleasant that I only watch it out of an obligation to KNOW... and to tell people in other forums what I know.

I am old... but I wish I could live long enough to see history give this travesty the treatment it deserves. He acts like Hitler, and he embraces other dictators who also show those tendencies. I can barely comprehend why he still has followers-- perhaps I don't want to comprehend it.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 02:27 PM

Ah, Marty, that was THEN and this is now. If you only knew.....

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 01:56 PM

Good to hear Trump has been told he is not welcome at the funerals of the shooting victims - maybe that bit of the West is waking up at last
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 07:07 AM

What disturbs me most of all it has never been easier to fact check and learn from history, but people will willfully ignore and dismiss the truth. Actually, having studied drama for a year - I am not so surprised after all as theater is based upon willing suspension of disbelief - and I think for many questioning populism is to much like hard work: not sure what to do about that except for what I am already doing in the Labour Party - maintaining a doorstep dialogue with the community - but I can only reach out to a few thousand - that still leave several million. + plus half of America - not sure how many Putin Supporter to include.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 06:57 AM

It took WW2 across Europe, and ethic cleansing to run its course in the Balkans to counrer populism. What will it take this time?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 03:23 AM

"please do not refer to him as Boris as he is in the end a nasty self-serving piece of work"
Can't disagree with this - but.....
THere is a danger of us all missing the point here
Yes - these people are what they are, but why state the obvious ?
They have found a key to power - populism - and that is what we should be concentrating on
The Brexit Referendum came five months before Trump and the latter echoed the former in appealing to OUR (the voters') worst weaknesses to take power
They did so by openly breaching former practices and using methods that had formerly been unacceptable, both were regarded generally as not possible, yet both were successful.
Last year, a late starter unknown returned Yank came from nowhere in the Irish Presidential Election. decided to use the inbuilt Irish hatred of Travellers and, had not the winner, Michael D been been as well known and respected as he was, Ireland would now have a hate mongering no-nothing no-mark as President

Trump will be fighting for a second term in the not too distant future and already he is ramping up his racist programme (his "go back to where you came from 'slip' was no accident)
Johnson will probably have to face a General Election soon and he has already started his hate/bribe campaign (not as crudely as Trump, but with the same xenophobic message.

When Enoch Powell made his 'Rivers of Blood' speech he was banished in disgrace - when Nigel Farage did exactly the same he won the day for the Tories - that is what needs facing, not the obvious characters of these turds
As is being said quite eloquently on another other thread, "sticks and stones"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 01:47 AM

”Even Trump's best mate in the UK has a Russian name..”

And he was born in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Aug 19 - 12:01 AM

Even Trump's best mate in the UK has a Russian name...

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Aug 19 - 11:38 PM

Bill, We do note one parallel between Trump and Johnson (please do not refer to him as Boris as he is in the end a nasty self-serving piece of work) in that Johnson has surrounded himself with a cabinet of 'yes-men' a number of which have a track record of either failure or improper practices which have caused them to previously be dismissed from ministerial office.

But, I do not agree that we offered Trump decorum and polite protocol, the majority of decent people in the UK did not even want him to set foot in the UK. That was set up on purely on the whim of a single UK politician who was effectively thrown out of office. In fact our London Mayor made it clear that Trump wasn't wanted by 'correctly' refusing Trump a red carpet when he arrived at Stansted.

In terms of the d-day landings commemoration, Trump showed himself as a pathetic nasty piece of excrement by ranting about your House Speaker in front of war graves. On that basis alone, if the worlds Heads or State have any decency whatsoever, they will commemorate the seventy-first anniversary of d-day and not commemorate VE or VJ day until Trump shows proper respect for the war-fallen.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 19 - 06:18 PM

Well I agree with all that. I especially agree about your electoral college. A 15-14 Trump win in Florida delivers all 29 to Trump. Talismanic. Stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Aug 19 - 05:59 PM

Steve... I didn't "excoriate" you all for getting Boris... I was merely noting that ringers CAN sneak in is some situations.
And I certainly don't suggest in any way that letting Boris in *excuses* us getting Trump. I do understand the significant differences in our political systems and am fully aware of the flaws that allow us to fall into certain traps. It didn't always make such a difference. At one time... even in my experience, there were plenty of decent politicians on both sides,and we had a term "loyal opposition" that I haven't heard recently.
   Our experiment with 'democracy' has taken some odd turns... but remember.. we did start out carefully avoiding the form of monarchy you had back then. A lot of the Founders ideas worked pretty well, but it was not clear that some aspects had loopholes that no one could anticipate...like the 2nd amendment wording about guns. If there had been any anticipation of assault rifles, no one would have written it to allow ANY citizen to buy those! When moving west, guns were needed to deal with bears and those 'inconvenient' people who were here first. YOU all have been past most of that for centuries.
   Slavery created many other situations that headed us into awkward paths... including the ridiculous **electoral college**. Yes, it made counting and voting easier when communication and travel were tedious, but it has now 5-6 times invalidated the popular vote. We also are for practical purposes tied to a 2 party system..leading to very odd bedfellows.
   Finally, this situation of having a president ignore ALL reason and appoint judges and cabinet officials and diplomats with no credentials except loyalty to his Trumpship is beyond anything most of us could have imagined!

   Yeah... we are in a hole, and it's gonna be a pain climbing out. We made the 1st step by winning back the House, and we **may** manage to impeach and/or vote this travesty out.
Millions of us see the problems, and that new ideas will require new methods.... you have any positive suggestions? We really don't need more reminders that we are in pretty deep.. we need encouragement and serious help--- like Britain NOT pretending that Trump deserves decorum and polite protocol! Oh... wait... I think Boris kinda likes Trump.... nuts...

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 06 Aug 19 - 10:45 AM

I greatly fear, Mrrzy , that you are one hundred per cent correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 08:50 PM

Mossback- it already is.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 07:35 PM

A lot's been said here since I typed what you railed at, Bill. You are a very measured and reasonable poster. Your reaction to my post, excoriating us for having Johnson as PM, is understandable, but, as has been said, the public here didn't pick him. And complaining that we have him is no excuse for what you have. Your politics is infantile and panders to populism and all your politicians are scared shitless of criticising Israel/guns/oil companies. You have a president who gains strength from what should be fatal weaknesses. And he's a threat to the planet in a way that Boris never will be. Reflect on that if you will. I know it's not your personal fault.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 06:48 PM

Backwoodsman said:
"How did the US go from this President, to a batshit-crazy, pussy-grabbing, morally-bankrupt crook? "

   The part that startled me was that he was laughed at and ridiculed by many stalwart Republicans when he announced..... and then he proceeded to stand onstage with a dozen others and say outrageous stuff and gradually pull ahead! The crazier he became, the more it seemed to fit the mood of the right-wing nuts, and lure just enough of the vaguely moderates with his scare tactics and outright lies! (remember, we KNOW politicians spin their message, but we have little experience of a presidential candidate directly lying about his plans, promises and credentials.)
There were also many men, I presume, who envied his behavior toward women. Because we can't read minds or interview every voter, it's hard to show 'exactly' what most found appealing about his BS.... and, as noted, he DID lose the popular vote by 3,000,000. There is well founded suspicion that Russian meddling made just enough difference to get him 30,000 votes, legally or illegally, in 3-4 states.
   When you couple that with just enough people who refused to vote for a woman... and Hillary in particular... and the stupid outmoded electoral college, it just happened.

All the "what's the matter with America?" rants are just attempts to simplify disgust with the result by painting 65,000,000 good people with the same broad brush as a similar number of bad, confused and ignorant ones. There is NO simple answer.... there is history, demographics, media, and a complex country with **states rights** attitude to explain it... and that takes more time than my fingers will type or you will read....

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 06:19 PM

Just remember that Clinton got three million more votes.

I don't blame the electoral vote. I blame the electors.

Part of the point of the "college" is that when the electors meet in their state capitols to certify the election results, part of their responsibility from the beginning has been to ensure that an unfit candidate, con man, or dangerous demagogue is not allowed to take office, regardless of the "electoral vote".

In other words, except where they're constrained by state law, individual electors theoretically can vote for anybody they want, or for nobody. In 2016, several Democrats deserted Clinton and voted for Sanders, Colin Powell, or Faith Spotted Eagle.

All Republican electors went for Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 06:06 PM

So lets wait for the tirade of nasty drivel from trump in response to such a sensitive, well thought out and empathetic statement. I am sure it won't be able to help itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 05:20 PM

From the FB Page of Barack Obama...

”Michelle and I grieve with all the families in El Paso and Dayton who endured these latest mass shootings. Even if details are still emerging, there are a few things we already know to be true.

First, no other nation on Earth comes close to experiencing the frequency of mass shootings that we see in the United States. No other developed nation tolerates the levels of gun violence that we do. Every time this happens, we’re told that tougher gun laws won’t stop all murders; that they won’t stop every deranged individual from getting a weapon and shooting innocent people in public places. But the evidence shows that they can stop some killings. They can save some families from heartbreak. We are not helpless here. And until all of us stand up and insist on holding public officials accountable for changing our gun laws, these tragedies will keep happening.

Second, while the motivations behind these shootings may not yet be fully known, there are indications that the El Paso shooting follows a dangerous trend: troubled individuals who embrace racist ideologies and see themselves obligated to act violently to preserve white supremacy. Like the followers of ISIS and other foreign terrorist organizations, these individuals may act alone, but they’ve been radicalized by white nationalist websites that proliferate on the internet. That means that both law enforcement agencies and internet platforms need to come up with better strategies to reduce the influence of these hate groups.

But just as important, all of us have to send a clarion call and behave with the values of tolerance and diversity that should be the hallmark of our democracy. We should soundly reject language coming out of the mouths of any of our leaders that feeds a climate of fear and hatred or normalizes racist sentiments; leaders who demonize those who don’t look like us, or suggest that other people, including immigrants, threaten our way of life, or refer to other people as sub-human, or imply that America belongs to just one certain type of people. Such language isn’t new – it’s been at the root of most human tragedy throughout history, here in America and around the world. It is at the root of slavery and Jim Crow, the Holocaust, the genocide in Rwanda and ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. It has no place in our politics and our public life. And it’s time for the overwhelming majority of Americans of goodwill, of every race and faith and political party, to say as much – clearly and unequivocally.”

How did the US go from this President, to a batshit-crazy, pussy-grabbing, morally-bankrupt crook?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 04:55 PM

Yes... it does work like that... but part of my point was that the blatant lies ARE partially a result of so many being too lazy or careless to bother looking for reason and truth and just reading or watching the media outlets that they already agree with....
   And lies can be made to sound like such simple answers! Untangling and exposing lies takes much longer than telling the lies. Trump spews out so many so fast that there's no breathing space between them.
Doesn't "they're coming to take your guns!" and "we're being invaded by dangerous migrants!" make it a lot easier to make decisions if you're already confused?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 03:55 PM

Part of the problem, Bill, is that what we ID as blatant lies are taken as obvious truths by millions.

Last week, for example, the president told a cheering crowd very forcefully that Americans do not pay for his tariffs on Chinese imports:

" I just announced another 10% tariff on $300 billion worth of Chinese products that come into our country. And that’s on top of the 25% that we take off $250 billion coming in from China, and don’t let them tell you, the fact is China devalues their currency. They pour money into their system, they pour it in, and because they do that, you’re not paying for those tariffs. China’s paying for those tariffs."

Basically doubletalk. The purchaser, not the seller, pays tariffs. Freshman econ.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 02:51 PM

It's an ongoing concern that so few voted, but with so little attention to the candidates platforms and ignorance about the issues, having a 90% voting populace might not be an improvement. Polls are becoming more suspect as phone #s go to mobile phones and compete with texts, videos and games. I wonder how they find a good sample of actual voters to poll.
The problems of maintaining a fair, honest government are hugely more complex since people's attention span has been divided between so many distractions and problematic media sources. (there are at any one time in the evening, 5-6 different right-wing cable TV channels available in my area..(the greater Wash.DC area) Fox news is famous, but one is consistently to the right of Fox! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_America_News_Network (and it is NOT a 'pay' channel in my list) They are a study in spin, distortion, lies, rhetorical blather and twisted logic. I look at it now & then to see where Trump is getting some of his latest ideas... He is said to be unhappy with Fox because they have a couple of hosts who actually try to see the truth and don't toe the party line.

You see? It really takes time and more effort than many are willing to take to sort the truths from the half-truths from the blatant lies!

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 01:57 PM

Things like this tear nations apart,

Yup, things like:

-racism
-xenophobia
-ignorance
-willful denial of reality
-fascism
-white supremacy
-social Darwinism
-Reaganomics

All of which are actively promoted by the the Republishit Party in the U.S.

Wake up, assholes - you want to know what's coming before it's Hitler/Mussolini redux.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 01:30 PM

Bit of a concern that only about 40% voted in the presidential elections. How does the other 60% break down between too young, non US nationals, voter suppression and voter apathy?

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 01:17 PM

Each system has potential weak points. The one thing I envy about the UK system is having to possibility for a "vote of confidence" in the middle of a term.
   The greatest flaw in the US system in the electoral college. The Republicans are totally aware that changing demographics mean they MUST retain the electoral college in order to keep electing Reagans and Bushes and Trumps.... it is possible that they will also need ongoing tampering with elections.

   Over 40 million young people have turned 18 since 2016, and we shall see how many are taken in by the current batch of lies.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 12:56 PM

Johnson was elected Prime Minister by approx 0.14 - less than on fifth of 1 percent of the UK population whereas Trump was elected by approx 20% of the American population   Just sidetracking on the sidetrack of the issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 12:54 PM

It's going to get worse before it gets better.

I know, that's not what anybody wants to hear.
But it is more than "one generation will die off in time."
Things like this tear nations apart,
like a family feud on a giant scale.

This continent may well end up
having more than one nation where there used
to be one nation with continental forty-eight states.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 19 - 10:18 PM

Ummm... right. No one would allow anyone as flawed as Trump to gain power..... unless they had a Boris Johnson to offer. ;>)

The US still has many good things and ideals, despite the odd crap of letting a stupid anti-immigrant scare and probably Russian meddling allow the worse president we ever had follow one of the best.

It's not a good idea to make such broad, sweeping condemnations of a country which has some really sane, decent people working very hard to set things right again. My senators and my local congressman are top notch. If Mitch McConnell were kicked out, you'd see a lot more progress.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Aug 19 - 07:48 PM

You live in a rotten country that can ignorantly elect a dangerous idiot for president, that is so undemocratic that a gun lobby, a pro-Israel lobby and a bunch of multinationals, none of whom ever managed to attract a single vote from your electorate, rule the roost and ensure that any politician who opposes them is toast. And your political discourse is infantile. Bastion of democracy? Land of the free? In your dreams, yanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 19 - 07:23 PM

Sadly, all the news media about one shooting seems to push the idea in others who are racist, unhappy or just plain crazy. I'll bet there are guys right now who just wonder what it would 'feel' like to shoot up a crowd...

There's no shortage of idiots whose minds are messed up... and with millions of guns easily available, what could we expect to happen? These days just shooting ONE barely makes the local news.