BS: Role model my 'arris!

Subject: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 07:20 AM

As an utterly biased Liverpool supporter I am naturally disgusted by the extremely harsh treatment of the sublime Luis Suarez. A ten-match ban? Why, players who have broken other players' legs with cynical high tackles have got away with much less. Players who have head-butted other players have got away with less. Yeah, he's an immature twat for biting Ivanovic (I support Chelsea as well as it happens - an extended family thang), but Ivanovic is virtually unmarked and was back in training the next day. And, of course, we had the much bigger twat Cameron wading in with his two and bloody fourpence!

Now that I have the tirade of intemperate contumely out of the way, down to the serious business. What the hell is all this "role model" stuff? The phrase is brainlessly trotted out all the time without so much as a single neurone applied to its usage. Everyone's a bloody "role model". Your teacher's a role model. Your dad's a role model. The boy scout bloke's a role model. Pop singers are role models. Footballers are role models. The vicar's a role model. Jesus was a role model. I'll tell you what, with all these role models it's hardly surprising that kids get all confused. We don't need role models. We need to tell children how to sort out good from bad, that's what we need. We need the lad watching the Liverpool-Chelsea game to admire Suarez for his stunning goal yet condemn him for the bite. You can do both. I think it's a very bad idea for your kids to go around being influenced by "role models" instead of thinking for themselves. The world is not black and white. A well brought up kid can judge actions for him or herself, not rely on the influence of "role models". Suarez is a footballer. The only thing about him that should influence your lad is his technical and tactical skills, and you should be telling your lad that. Suarez's life skills are not what puts him in the public eye. Putting people on pedestals as role models is one more pressure for those people that they don't need (in any case, like Suarez, they're far too immature to live up to it). John Terry didn't get banned for shagging his best mate's wife, and what kind of role model is that? Cameron left his eight-year-old kid in a pub by accident. Great role model there, bollocking a footballer for being a bad role model! Next time you find yourself tempted to declare that so-and-so is a great role model, stop first to ask yourself whether you're actually using your brain. Sheesh and discuss!

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 07:35 AM

He grabbed someone's arm and bit it!
Normal people do not do that.
Ok, so it did little damage, but he bit someone!

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Expert Fiddler
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 07:44 AM

Oh..... I thought you were going to talk about Rolf.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 07:49 AM

I agree, Steve. It's all part of the 'blame culture'.

"Oh look - Our lovely little Chardonnay has bitten Billy's ear off. Must have got that from watching Liverpool. Nothing to do with my perfect parenting skills..."

Maybe when parents accept that their little darlings occasionally do things wrong and need to be chastised they may not need to place the responsibility with someone else.

Fat chance, sadly.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 07:50 AM

Thanks to the man with a degree in Plain As The Nose On Your Face obtained at the University Of The Bleedin' Obvious in Hertford.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 07:54 AM

Rolf 'arris. Now that is funny.


Put a ball in 'is mouth mate
He'll be a role model then
Just like Willis in Pulp (fiction)
Put a gag in his mouth.



Ball Gag

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 08:09 AM

I am getting very worried. I ahve recently agreed with MtheGM and Mither, and here I am agreeing with Keith!

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 08:34 AM

Don't fight it Richard.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Musket
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 08:41 AM

In terms of my street credibility and my ability to look myself in the mirror, don't keep publicising the fact Bridge....

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 08:48 AM

I don't find it surprising that many of us disagree in principle with a highly paid professional biting another man on the arm.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 08:50 AM

Suarez is a jerk, but ten matches is a knee-jerk.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Les from Hull
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 08:56 AM

A ten match ban is over the top, but we have seen these extended bans increase to no real effect. Perhaps it should be a standard clause in a footballer's contract that the club don't pay him for the period of the ban.

Cameron has no right sounding off though. He's no role model. Greed and selfishness are just plain evil.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 09:34 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22304322

LOL LOL

Doesn't Cameron have something better to do than abusing his influence by speaking "as a dad watching the game? If he were a good role model wouldn't he at least speak officially as Prime Minister or better yet, DO HIS OWN JOB and keep his nose out of regulating football?

"I made my own views clear, just as a dad watching the game,"

LOL LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 10:20 AM

Musket, what shall I do? I am in extremely severe danger of agreeing with Jack on a point...

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 10:31 AM

I have to say Steve, I thought that you were being over the top before I looked it up on the BBC. Your point about Cameron was well ranted and proportional.

Cameron seems like a tool of W. Bush proportions.

Though I do somewhat disagree on your other point. I can't complain about the suspension. I think that there is no place for biting the opponent in any sport.

What was Luis thinking? Was he bit by a rage-infested monkey?

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 10:47 AM

I make no excuses for the man. He has a sublime talent, one of the few world-class players in England, but he does idiotic things quite frequently. Basically, do not go around biting people, yeah? But the ban is out of all proportion. Others footballers have ended other players' careers with terrible fouls and suffered far lesser consequences. Biting someone, no matter how gently, is egregiously awful. But the bloke is, it seems, being given an overly severe punishment, not so much for what he did but for who is and because a couple of brainless politicians have waded in quite improperly. The FA is stupid enough with their help.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 10:50 AM

who he is

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 11:06 AM

Oh how times have changed!
The limelight has been replaced by the media Spotlight , they make players and break players as their "concience" or bank balance goes up or down.

Willie Woodburn Glasgow Rangers 1938 - 1954
"In 1947 he received a 14-day ban for a "violent exchange" with Motherwell's Dave Mathie, then in 1953 he punched the Clyde striker Billy McPhail, which earned a 21-day ban. Later that year, Woodburn was sent off for retaliation in a match with Stirling Albion. The clubs met again, the following season, in a League Cup tie at Ibrox on 28 August 1954. Playing with a knee injury, Woodburn took exception to a bad foul and retaliated by headbutting a Stirling player.

The SFA convened a disciplinary hearing the following month, which lasted just four minutes, and Woodburn was suspended sine die. The England international Tom Finney, one of many well-known forwards Woodburn had encountered in his international career, described the ban as "a grave injustice". The SFA revoked their punishment three years later, but by then Woodburn was 37 and his playing career was over.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 11:13 AM

I think you can aggressively tackle and credibly claim that the injury was an accident.

Teethmarks are clear evidence of intent and immaturity IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 01:45 PM

Dunno how much footie you watch, Jack, but you'll see players deliberately stamping on other players when they're down, cynical "professional" fouls to stop direct scoring chances, elbows thrust into faces and double-footed studs-up tackles that are absolutely not accidental. In the old days and in lower leagues you get away with it. With 25 video cameras all the field in a big game you're going to get seen, even if the ref misses it.

Ah, did someone just mention the sublime Tom Finney, still going strong in his 90s...the Preston Plumber... Was he the greatest of all time, or was that my boyhood hero Jimmy McIlroy of Burnley? Now there's a man who could have been a role model, had there been such a thing!

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 01:50 PM

Often wonder how long Norman Hunter would last with today's referees. Of course, it was on our hallowed turf that Di Canio, wearing a Wednesday shirt pushed the referee to the ground. I supported him and made excuses so not easy being judgemental in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 02:00 PM

Did Norman ever actually bite anyone's leg? I could always write to Notes & Queries in the Grauniad...

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 02:07 PM

Heheh. Just found this on wiki about Norman Hunter.

His nickname "Bites yer legs" stemmed from his strength in the tackle. When Hunter himself suffered a broken leg, club trainer Les Cocker was informed that "Hunter had broken a leg" and responded with "whose is it?"

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 02:12 PM

"cynical "professional" fouls to stop direct scoring chances, elbows thrust into faces and double-footed studs-up tackles that are absolutely not accidental. "

I said that they could claim that the INJURIES were accidental.

"I hit him to keep him from scoring but I didn't mean to injure him."

Teeth marks are proof of the intent to injure.

You can't credibly say "I grabbed his arm and bit him to keep him from scoring."

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: gnu
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 02:18 PM

I got as far as the first line of the second post and thought "Only a ten match ban? Not a this and next season ban with NO pay?" for a START? NO jail time for assault? WTF?

Role models apparently are not found in the the league's executives or team's owners or in police uniform.

Rather appalling.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 03:07 PM

What a fuss about nothing. Football (soccer) is played by overpaid, immature non UK nationals, in the main. How can anyone get excited about, or support a team that has a British name, and up to 100% non British players. It beggars belief, that they're not done, under the trades descriptions act, for deception.
They are overpaid, over excitable, and underwhelming!
I should expect anyone who is paid that amount of money, to behave themselves, as a quid pro quo for the staggeringly large pay packet.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Lavengro
Date: 26 Apr 13 - 03:36 PM

If I got a bit upset in work and sank my teeth into someone (not for the first time either) I could expect two things. The sack, and a court appearance possibly leading to a custodial term.

If he was in the real world and not surrounded by team lawyers and semi-professional apologists he clearly wouldn't cope or keep his employment or freedom. In fact if he did that in his local local pub he might find himself beaten to a pulp without the intervention of a referee.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 06:00 AM

"Suarez was was banned for seven games in November 2010 while playing for Dutch side Ajax for a similar incident in which he bit PSV Eindhoven midfielder Otman Bakkal's shoulder during a match.

During his time at Liverpool, the Uruguayan has received bans of eight matches for racially abusing Manchester United defender Patrice Evra and one match for making an an abusive gesture at Fulham fans."

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 06:35 AM

Blooming 'eck, I'm no great follower of footie so I didn't know he'd got previous. And for the same offence, only 3 years ago?!!!

Ten matches is starting to sound a bit lame...

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 07:01 AM

What did his victim (The Bitten) have to say? Did he wish to press charges? If so, I'd imagine it would be a matter for the Police, as it's technically ABH. If on the other hand, he didn't mind a bit (sorry!) then why is everyone else getting so exercised about it? I saw an article in the paper in which it seems a boy had bitten another child 'because he'd seen Suarez do it.' His mother was actually daft enough to complain that her little darling had been unduly influenced by the scenes on TV. Instead of giving him a jolly good smacked bottom, she was actually moaning about the FA and the media. Beggars belief.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 07:34 AM

Mr Mackenzie may have a view on biting but his disparaging withering dismissal of the game that entertains adults and is played by children all over the world isn't exactly useful.

I notice the American game they call football includes the players wearing muzzles.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 08:51 AM

Hi

Much has been said on this topic here and elsewhere.

What does not appear to have been said here is that Suarez has "form" he has bitten before and received a 7 match ban. He hasn't learned s IMHO 10 is a suitable punishment.

I agree that Luis is a fine player with immense skills and of course is more than important to Liverpool.

I have seen him play several times and though I admired his skill I did not like his petty and deceitful behaviour in each of the games I watched. He watches for the referee to be unsighted and uses elbows knees studs and anything else he can to upset and niggle the opposition. He falls over and dives every time anyone goes near him.

It is a pity because his talent is obvious but his behaviour is a slight on Liverpool and a blemish on their high reputation in Football.

Role models???.....you only have to look across the field at Steven Gerrard to see one of the best around.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 09:03 AM

I agree with Musket. Activities with millions upon millions of participants should not be dismissed or disparaged.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 10:18 AM

It's my opinion, and I have as much right to state such. Same as you do to state tho opposite. Nobody's going to change anybody's mind, and if we ever meet, we'll know what not to talk about ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 10:40 AM

He should have been banned for life, as should all who demonstrate violence in football.

To physically bite someone is odd. He has done it before...

This is NOT normal behaviour, other than in those who have some problems.

I'm old enough to remember when Liverpool Football players came from Liverpool, and their supporters wore scarves knitted by their Grannies, so maybe, just maybe, Corporate Football has invented a whole new breed of Monsters So Rich that they don't give a damn what they do, for they will always be able to afford lawyers to fight for them..

Football has become utterly stupid these days..ruled by money, conning the fans, who half the time don't know which way is up, as they stand their in their £60 T shirts yelling for their 'heroes'

Sooner it get dumped into Room 101, the better....

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 10:48 AM

Oh..and just to say, my friend's son used to bite a lot when he was little. He was later diagnosed with Aspergers.

And I disagree about the role model bit. Children WILL copy what they see on TV, especially footballers, because our society has made men who kick a football around into Gods. It has always puzzled me, especially as most of them seem to be obssessed with themselves and nowadays, with having everything money can buy, and thensome.

It's become an Industry..Corporatized by The Sociopaths, to breaking point....

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 10:56 AM

It has been banished to room 101. In your head.

One good thing about being at the match (on my way now actually) is not having to be surrounded by GROLIES such as Ms Cornish.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 01:12 PM

'Children WILL copy what they see on TV if you let them.' The way forward is NOT to let them. It always amazes me that many of today's parents seem to be totally unable to control their own offspring, who indeed appear to hold sway over their hapless families. This is not the way to bring up a child to know right from wrong. By the way my niece is an Aspergers young lady and she's never bitten anyone in her life.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 01:20 PM

@ Musket****Lizzie said nothing that others haven't already said on this thread. So why pick her out for a special insult?

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 01:20 PM

Agree entirely, Eliza. Just my point earlier about how parents seem to be unable to take responsibility nowadays. But then again, I suppose nostalgia ain't what it used to be either!

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 01:28 PM

DtG, it's true that fings ain't wot they used ter be, but children don't change, it's the parenting (or lack of it) that's changed. If I'd bitten anybody, even as a young child, I'd have been unable to sit down for a week. That's why I don't go around biting people now. (Although I have to say sometimes I'm tempted!) Regarding biting, it can impart infections into the wound of the 'bitee'. I visited a prisoner who was a Hep B and C carrier; he regularly tried to bite Prison staff and had in fact bitten a security guard when on a burglary job. It's not pleasant to wait for the results of blood tests to see if you've contracted something horrid from an animal like that. I was lucky that he didn't see me as munchable, I suppose!

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 01:57 PM

Mr Mackenzie. I didn't. I started by being disappointed in your feeble contribution. In fact, Ms Cornish was on form. Unfortunately her form orbits a different planet to mine.

The pair of you. This thread isn't about knocking football it is about the behaviour of one player the other week. If you don't like or understand the glorious game, I'm not sure your contribution pointing out the fact is relevant.

I picked on the pair of you because although I am sure there are others saying the same, I have a life so haven't read them all. Just the op and a few recent.

In fact the reason I am bored enough to be posting is that it is half time, my son has gone to get the bovril and rat's coffins and rather than watch the unnecessary cheerleader display (chuffing yanks spreading their "culture" again,) I am checking posts and waiting for the next wonderful 90 mins.

Up the Owls!

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Apr 13 - 06:25 PM

Well of course, Musket will be anticipating this post of mine with dread. Yes, Liverpool have just beaten Newcastle United six nil. At Newcastle. Fer chrissake. Inflicted the heaviest home defeat on Newcastle for over 80 years. Without Suarez. I'm very calm, of course. Very very calm.







*Sheeeeeee-it!!!! Yeah! Go Reds!!!!*


Ahem. Yes. Very very very calm...

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 28 Apr 13 - 02:36 AM

Enjoyed watching it on Match of the Day. Should have been 7 towards the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Apr 13 - 03:47 AM

And not a bite in sight!

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Smell my finger
Date: 28 Apr 13 - 03:51 AM

Biting?
That's nuffin!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hopoate

During a 2001 clash with the Cowboys, Hopoate, in an attempt to unsettle several of his opponents, inserted his finger in three players' anuses, the first occurring during the seventh minute of play. At the conclusion of the match the matter was immediately referred to the rugby league judiciary where a case was put forward from both sides on 28 March.
Hopoate claimed in front of the panel of judges that he was simply attempting to give all three players "a wedgie" with his fingers, denying he had done anything wrong and that he was "a great believer in what happens on the field should stay there".
The three victims in the case, Cowboys players Glenn Morrison, Peter Jones and Paul Bowman all disagreed with the reasoning put forward by Hopoate and his team. Jones stated, "It wasn't a wedgie. That's when your pants are pulled up your arse. I think I know the difference between a wedgie and someone sticking their finger up my bum", while Bowman stated that he was "disgusted" and "couldn't believe it."

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Apr 13 - 06:40 AM

Good heavens, how disgusting! The dirty pig! Yuk!! And have the judges yet come to a decision? Interesting to learn later what the ruling will be!

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Apr 13 - 06:42 AM

Gracious, I've just thought... I do hope silly parents will be able to stop their wayward offspring from copying THAT role model. If not, there'll be fingers poked up bums in playgrounds all over Britain!

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 28 Apr 13 - 08:28 AM

I think you mean The Glorious Corporate Game...


As to biting...my friend was and is a wonderful parent, but at that time in his life, it made no difference, such was his distress over things happening to him at school, which he was not able to put into words easily...

And,for the record, a woman I got to know a while back, told me of her son, also diagnosed with Aspergers. She had been terrified of him when he was younger, before she finally got help and a diagnosis. He tried to stab her many times over with a bread knife or other implements he could find. She ended up on medication...in a terrible state, but she stood beside him and eventually help WAS given to them both.

She arranged for me to meet him....I asked him what had caused the pain..and he told me had developed this terrible anger towards his mother, because she made him go to school each day, where he was terrified out of his wits...That anger grew and grew, for he loved her dearly, as she did him...and he felt torn apart that the very person who was supposed to protect him the most, was the very one who was causing him so much pain.

Now, he winces at what he did..feels terrible. He still struggles and can still get very angry, but he has learnt to control it..and for the most part he is kind, gentle and quiet, working with others who have learning/emotional/mental difficulties and being very happy with his work, for he relates so well to their problems.

It is NOT normal to bite people and I'm sorry to disagree on this one, Eliza, as I normally agree with much that you say, but in this instance, I think you are wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Apr 13 - 12:43 PM

I'm sorry Lizzie if I sounded in any way arrogant about my Aspergers niece; it wasn't intended I assure you. I can see that the condition manifests itself in many ways and to many different degrees. Actually, my niece sometimes self-harms by cutting her arms and punching herself. This could I expect be a parallel action to biting. It's sheer frustration and a stress/alarm response. She has recently had a change in her medication which has helped, and my sister is slightly less worried about her. It's a very difficult condition, but luckily more publicised and better understood than formerly.