BS: Role model my 'arris!

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 03:20 AM

Very good article here that brings up a few points. A lot of is by a sports psychologist from the university of Salford so I would give it more credence than some of the psychobabble that is being spouted. It seems that while biting is rare in adults it is more common in sport than in 'real life'. It would appear that it is often the result of frustration and close proximity with your 'opponent'. I would also point out that a 10 match ban is not the harshest penalty for biting either. Back in 1994 South African Johan le Roux received an 18 month ban for biting the ear of an opponent. Of course that was rugby where players are not likely to go stage theatrical dives at the drop of a hat...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 03:28 AM

Sorry - should have said more common in contact sports as teh article does. Also just spotted that Ivanovic is not reporting any physical injury and does not want police to progress the issue. Unless I am mistaken an assault such as this one would need the victim to press charges. So even if this was not on the football field, it would not have resulted in prosecution.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Rolf
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 03:54 AM

Wot?

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 04:02 AM

Football - what a waste of space it is these days - in my view. I couldn't care less if it does being pleasure to millions - it should be played under the sea.

When I was being taught how to play it in school sports, 50+ years ago, we were shown the differences between correct and incorrect tackling. We didn't fall down in mock pain. If we pulled someone's shirt or did anything that constituted a deliberate foul, we were often sent off. We were taught the concept of sport and sportsmanship. Sad, eh?

Fast forward 50 years - immature louts being paid ridiculous sums of cash kicking a bit of plastic around to bring in money for greedy corporate businesses. The sport, like many others has been ruined by money.

I can't bear to watch the game now as I'm stuck in a time warp with boyhood heroes like Tom Finney, Nat Lofthouse and Stanley Matthews. Nat could be a bit rough at times, but probably took his false teeth out before a game... Matthews - one of the greatest players of his day - never got a booking in his life.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 05:17 AM

I actually think that biting is triggered in the amygdala part of the brain, the primitive, instinctive section. Add to that male testosterone produced during 'fight' (ie a physical sport) and I suppose men have to try hard to control their basic urges. But it CAN be controlled, as the vast majority of players do NOT bite anybody! I agree with Will Fly, attitudes generally were far different in 'our' day. I also think modern football triggers violence and aggression in speactators which spills over into street life.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 05:25 AM

Once again great sense from Eliza!

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 07:08 AM

"I also think modern football triggers violence and aggression in speactators which spills over into street life."

Not convinced by this. From what I remember soccer related violence was far worst in the past - particularly the 70s.

Also, you have to admit that whatever you think of the corporate takeover of football - and it has clearly happened - you can't get away from the sheer skill of some of the players, far from all of whom are badly behaved cheats. Three words - Robin, Van and Persie.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 02:45 PM

Of course, there are millions who would rather be entertained by watching a decent match than hear you sing. ...

Once again into the breach. If you don't like or understand football then either start or reply to a thread on that subject. This was started by a football fan (of sorts) about an incident during a match. Not about the match itself.

More people follow football than Jesus and Justin Bieber combined.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 03:15 PM

Ah, GUEST, but I wasn't looking back to the seventies. I'm old enough to remember the fifties, and things were very different then.
Musket, I thought this thread was about role models among football players, and whether their behaviour on the pitch has an adverse effect on the young, with particular reference to a recent biting incident. One doesn't need to know too much about the actual game of football to be able to comment, surely?

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 05:48 PM

Fully agree Eliza. But that is different to those starting with saying they dismiss football then go on to talk about the incident and role models.

If they are not capable of saying anything positive about the game it would be odd if they had an objective stance on an incident in the game.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 06:27 PM

If they are not capable of saying anything positive about the game it would be odd if they had an objective stance on an incident in the game.

So, by the same token, if you have nothing positive to say about the Nazi party you cannot have an objective stance about Kristallnacht? Or if you have nothing positive to say about Fred West you cannot comment on mass murder? I find that philosophy somewhat alien I'm afraid. Maybe you could educate me?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 01:52 AM

Of course. Assuming you can be educated.

If you start a thread on cookery, it would be tedious and irrelevant if people felt it important to say they don't give a damn about cooking.

I doubt anybody is interested in the nuances of Nazi ideology. Ot at least from a defensive point of view.

I have no interest in pocket watches but be buggered if I would be crass enough to post on that thread to say I don't see the fascination. If I had a view regarding French versus Swiss I might but to just display my ignorance and dismissal to those interested in the subject isn't good manners.

Having a Godwin complex isn't either. ...

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 04:29 AM

OK Musket. Assuming that your opening comment was not meant just to annoy. Yes, I can and have often been educated people who know more than me on some topics. Just as I have educated people that know less than me about others.

I do not particularly follow any football team. I do believe that at top level there is a surfeit of overpaid spoiled brats and that the value placed on the game by some people is far in excess of what is deserved. However I do enjoy the odd game and can appreciate the skill involved. I also believe that people who do not like football have every right to comment on incidents that have nothing whatsoever to do with the game itself. Like the biting of other players.

On the subject of good manners I do not find it particularly courteous to open a response with an implied doubt of someones intelligence. So I find the castigation of those who have dismissed the subject by yourself somewhat hypocritical. Then again, I suppose your opinion of my views will probably be on par with the value I place on yours.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 05:22 AM

I never questioned your intelligence. I questioned the intelligence of your observation as related to the thread subject.

I agree that on the remuneration these lads get we should expect as high a degree of behaviour as we expect sporting skill. Those gifted with both are few and far between and we watch them for the latter. ......

I don't put any value on your contributions and would be surprised if anybody put any weight on mine. I don't know you. You don't know me and if we have any mental image of each other it wouldn't represent the reality if we followed each other on at a folk club.

Lighten up you daft bugger.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 07:33 AM

Well, Assuming you can be educated. does look rather like a question about me rather than an observation on the thread. Maybe our interpretation of the language is a bit different? But I agree with the rest your post - Especially the last bit :-) Apart from the fact that everything I post on here is, in my mind, trivial to the extreme and usually lighter than a light thing that is very light! We'll just put any differences down to the choice of language again. Mine being good and everyone else's being crap of course...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 09:47 AM

More people follow football than Jesus and Justin Bieber combined.

More than 1.7 million attend Church of England services in the average month.
This figure could be larger, but it is still enormous, far more than the number who attend football matches, often assumed to be Britain's favourite weekend activity. But church people tend not to be as newsworthy as footballers. Their Christian values stand at an angle to the brash, thrill-seeking, instant consumer culture that has become dominant in Britain over the last half-century.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8970031/The-return-to-religion.html

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 09:55 AM

'Much of BBC One's programming is accounted for by three major strands, Songs of Praise, which reached 3.4 million viewers each week in 2009, and Big Questions and Sunday Morning Live, discussion and debate formats broadcast on Sunday mornings.'

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 12:29 PM

More people in China watch our Premier League than there are people in The UK.

I'll not bother carrying on. But even keeping in The Uk, most small towns have over 10000 turn up at the match and a couple of hundred between the churches. Sky Sports subscription rates, a few million watching international matches on BBC etc.

Football offers faith, mass worship and a sense of belonging. Churches offer weak tea and disappointment.

The glorious game.

But there again, claiming more support for something than there really is... How's the canvassing going Keith? Disowned many candidates lately?

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 02:48 PM

I hesitate to generalise, but MY church does not offer 'weak tea and disappointment'! Although not very knowledgeable, I do like football and enjoy watching it with my husband, who is mad on it. He helps me understand the Beautiful Game in all its glory and his enthusiasm is catching. But on the subject of role models, one can surely opinionate on any celebrity the young idolise, with regard to their public behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Musket sans sin
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 06:19 PM

Ah Eliza. Read it again. My point was that many people take their interest in football seriously so might have problems being told it is trivial. My comparisons with religion were based on similar mindset of faith regardless of comparison with reality.

Read it again, the tongue in cheek part isn't too hidden.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 May 13 - 03:39 AM

...many people take their interest in religion seriously so might have problems being told it is just weak tea and disappointment! :-)

I do not count myself in that number btw but I find it is becoming more common on Mudcat for posters to state that their posts are ironic while treating other peoples posts as serious. I guess it is the need to pretend to be more intelligent than others.

Of course there is no real way of knowing if I really believe that or not ;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 May 13 - 03:52 AM

I'm truly sorry Musket sans sin if I misunderstood the tone of your post. It is rather difficult (or else I'm thicker than I thought) to determine irony online. I'm very glad you are indeed 'sans sin'! (smiling) I'm afraid I'm rather sinful myself, but I keep working on it! (smiling again)

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 01 May 13 - 08:36 AM

I do keep saying. Whilst people may take these posts at face value there is a market here for shooting from the hip in a way you might not face to face. The sincerity of your comments may be consistent but the delivery may be more straight forward and telling it like it is, even pushing further than you normally would in order to encourage debate.

Im certainly guilty of that. I am also guilty of not worrying over the tact or lack of when it comes to some replies.

That said, it can be cathartic.

Hey Eliza. Sin is relative. Im free from it by my reckoning but my lack of religious belief knocks the built in sin into touch. On balance I am fairly sure I have ignored my own moral code far more than you have (!)

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Jeri
Date: 01 May 13 - 09:17 AM

I just wish you'd learn what "sans" means, because some versions of your handle are pretty distractingly (and I'm sure, unintentionally) funny. Comes off more like "Musket sans clue". (The "sans reality check" was close to that,though.)

No, it's not enough for me to bitch about English, American or otherwise, but now I'm bringing French into it...

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Musket sans body
Date: 01 May 13 - 09:31 AM

I started using it to say without my cookie but as someone had accused someone else of being pretentious on a thread I used sans instead of without to wind him up.

It sadly stuck. It means basically I am using my phone. I can't store cookies due to corporate restrictions and can't be arsed to sign in each time. When I type m in the box the full list of past names is offered. Hence lazily I can use them.

According to my pet dog, French is French to both British and American English. Mais vous le saviez déjà....

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Jeri
Date: 01 May 13 - 09:45 AM

OK. I'll give up, but you have to admit the list of things and people you're "without" is pretty weird.

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 May 13 - 10:03 AM

Maybe sans should be changed to Sams? As in Sam's Musket? No?

Ah well...

I'll pick up thy coat :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Role model my 'arris!
From: GUEST,Musket sans Marriot Edgar
Date: 01 May 13 - 10:15 AM

Aye, thy should.

Being weird normally denotes being with. As in with an aardvark on a lead.

Being without could be a sign of underprivileged past you know....