5yr old shoots 2yr old

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 17 May 13 - 01:53 PM

I'm not sure if deer in UK have any natural predators. We have no wolves (only the football variety) and the only other way they are killed is on the roads. I expect the very hard winters we've had recently have reduced their numbers a tiny bit, but here in Norfolk for example there are blooming deer of all kinds everywhere! (I like them, but they do destroy woodland habitats and munch your garden vegetables, especially the little muntjacs.)

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: gnu
Date: 17 May 13 - 04:02 PM

I saw yet another gun tread was at over 100 posts so I decided to check back in and the last few posts only.

McGrath... "Any problem of there being too many deer only arises where the natural predators have been wiped out. Wolves do the job better, and might well be less likely to kill people than unregulated hunters with overpowered weapons."

Buddy, ya gotta read more. And, on toppa that, man IS a natural predator. He's got canine teeth and guns that do a far more humane job than any other predator when he kills. 99.999999% of deer killed by humans have no idea they are dead meat until they are. Being chased by wolves and brought down savagely and eaten while still alive? I think if the deer had to "like" a predator on Facebook, they would like me and my dirty thirty over a wolf any day.

Only a hundred posts so far? Where is your spirit? Gee whiz and golly gosh, given that there are thousands and thousands of posts on previous gun threads, you lot are sorely slack on commenting on shit you know nothing about. That ain't the Mudcat I know and love.

See you in another hundred posts or so.

Oh yeah... for those that don't know my stance on gun control... I am all for good gun laws and vehemently opposed to bad gun laws. If you really do wanna know my stance and WHY you can read MANY MANY MANY of my posts over YEARS herein. If ye can't be arsed to do so or to read up and educate yourselves... the NRA wins. Your call.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 May 13 - 02:46 AM

"Only a hundred posts so far? Where is your spirit? Gee whiz and golly gosh, given that there are thousands and thousands of posts on previous gun threads, you lot are sorely slack on commenting on shit you know nothing about. That ain't the Mudcat I know and love."

Maybe we're sick and tired of talking to bone-heads. You can't educate pork.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 May 13 - 03:20 AM

@Don Thompson - and even less frequently with you!

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 May 13 - 03:42 AM

WTF??

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: s&r
Date: 18 May 13 - 07:45 AM

When I started this thread it was with sorrow, horror and bewilderment at a situation that can allow such dreadful occurrences. In my book not just another gun thread, and not much to do with culling deer.

Stu

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Futwick
Date: 18 May 13 - 09:07 AM

It all ties together. As soon as you open a dialogue on guns, you get two kinds of extremists: those who want to give anyone any type of arms they want in any quantity and those who want to ban all guns and neither side cares about the consequences of their stances. Moreover neither side will give an inch on their stances and admit that going to such extremes is a not very good idea and will offer up the lamest of reasons why their stance is correct.

The point is, guns are here to stay--like it or not. So we need a dialogue based on at least understanding that much--they are here to stay and that they DO have good uses such as the culling of animals that would otherwise overpopulate and cause a starvation crisis. And it certainly is not just the US that has over-the-top mass murderers with firearms. Even in other countries where firearms are nearly non-existent in comparison have their problems of an idiot with a gun or have we already forgotten about Dunblaine? No amount of banning can prevent that.

However, such massacres are certainly far less around the world than what goes on in the US and so the US could benefit from either more gun control laws or more stringent application of current gun laws--probably a bit of both.

But the problem, as I see it, is not so much the availability of guns so much as it is what can be summed up in three letters: NRA. The NRA is THE major impediment to a safer society. Banning assault rifles would do nothing to prevent little kids from shooting each other with .22 rifles. It's the mindset that kids should have guns at all that is the problem here. It's the mindset of believing your kid doesn't need adult supervision and that people who think they do are just liberal faggots who need both barrels of a shotgun shoved up their arses. That is the mindset fostered and defended by the NRA whose ONLY purpose to make money for the gun industry regardless of how many innocent people have to die to keep those profits rolling in. Until that mindset changes, this type of tragedy simply can't be stopped with any amount of legislation.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 18 May 13 - 10:33 AM

Eliza:
I'm not sure if deer in UK have any natural predators. We have no wolves (only the football variety) and the only other way they are killed is on the roads.

There are no natural predators other than man, but to say the only way they're killed is on the roads is just not true....deer are culled in the UK in significant numbers, from stalking in Scotland to less publicised culling in England and Wales. They're not culled in sufficient numbers though, hence the population explosion in the last 15-20 years.

I've recently been the beneficiary of venison donations from near Forres and from Devon, both of which had been shot. Closer to home I've regularly enjoyed venison in Kent which had been shot by a farming friend.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 May 13 - 11:13 AM

I haven't posted on the Cat for weeks. Fed up with all the confrontation. But when humane, intelligent people like Joe Offer write glibly and complacently about living 'in a gun culture, like the county where I live', as if that was some sort of law of nature about which nothing can be done, rather than the sign of a nation which has just plain got it wrong for nearly 300 years, then I jump in yet again:~~

to say that it isn't a law of nature; constitutional amendments can be repealed [like Prohibition, for instance], when they are shown to be anti-social and counterproductive. If you wanted to do something about your dysfunctional gun laws then you could do it in next to no time, with adequate legal research and the will to achieve it, just as you could find a cure for a disease which was regularly killing off a small but perennial proportion of your population. But you're just all running too pathetically scared of your loathsome NRA to the point of acute nationwide mental paralysis from which practically none of you seems immune. ("We live in a gun culture" -- aaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh!).

So stop being so feeble, for heaven's sake, with your "gun cultures" and your "2nd amendments" and all the rest of your pathetic special pleading in the face of persistent abuse which makes you a perpetual hissing and byword to other civilised nations.

As if... Go back to sleep Michael!

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Futwick
Date: 18 May 13 - 12:15 PM

Nobody's scared of the NRA. But they have a lot of political power. They own politicians. They don't have to pass anything, they just need enough votes to block any gun control legislation from passing and that's what they did. In this case, it was a wasted effort because that particular legislation would not have prevented kids accidentally killing other kids.

The ONLY thing that will stop that is changing the mindset of parents who think their kids are too smart and safety-conscious to ever do anything stupid with a gun. And it's obvious from how often these tragedies occur that these people don't care. And warning them is pointless because they get indignant with their "Don't you tell me how to raise my kid, you Obama-loving faggot! You're the one destroying this country!" And then they practice even less gun safety than they otherwise would because they're going to show you and your tree-hugging liberal fag ass how REAL Americans handle guns, goddamn you!!

I submit that this attitude cannot be changed. It infects probably half of all Americans and definitely affects the vast majority of gun-owners. The NRA does what it can to foster this mentality in gun-owners because it sells more guns and more ammo. Any attempt to restrict sales of a certain type of firearm CAUSES a run on the sales of that weapon putting more of them on the street than ever before. Gun sellers, in fact, use this as a sales tactic in gun magazines and websites: "Get this little baby while it's still legal because it may not be after August 12th!!!" And they do--they buy themselves that little baby. I know a guy who bought an AR-15 recently. When I asked him what he needed it for, his answer was: "I don't have any need for it, I just want one." That mentality, I humbly submit to you, canNOT be changed.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 May 13 - 02:45 AM

Yes it can. I'll spell it out again. When there is some physical illness that kedps carrying off a regular proportion of the population, then we divert the best available medical brains to finding a cure. They haven't managed it for cancer yet, but they will. Most other former killers have now succumbed to the power of medical science. Not too many die of TB [the old dreaded 'consumption'] these days.

Well, you over there have such an illness rife among you, killing a small but regular proportion of your demographic. It's called 'gun crime'. The cause is well known to ewvery one of you. It is your fatuous and useless gun laws [that bloody second amendment as misinterpreted practically universally over there].

So -- do you call together all the best available legal, sociological, and psychiatric minds to tackle the disease? Do you hell! ~~ Instead, you go on incessantly beating your breasts crying "Eheu eheu, we shall have to live with it for ever. The people, god bless 'em, would never tolerate any cure."

Pathetic!.

~M~

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 May 13 - 05:16 AM

""So we need a dialogue based on at least understanding that much--they are here to stay and that they DO have good uses such as the culling of animals that would otherwise overpopulate and cause a starvation crisis.""

That is a compelling argument for the carefully controlled keeping and use of hunting firearms by rural people who can distinuish between a cow, a deer and the next door neighbour.

Tell me though Futwick, how many deer do you suppose are shot in city centres using automatic pistols or revolvers?

I think you'll find that humans shot (of all ages) far outnumber game or vermin.

Don T.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 May 13 - 05:21 AM

""Even in other countries where firearms are nearly non-existent in comparison have their problems of an idiot with a gun or have we already forgotten about Dunblaine? No amount of banning can prevent that.""

Wrong example! His guns were licenced, so a ban would have prevented the Dunblane killings.

As to why they were licenced, that's another mystery.

Don T.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 May 13 - 08:23 AM

Nobody's scared of the NRA.

Christ, they SHOULD be - them and the "militia" and "patriot" nut case anti-government hate groups they support & vice versa.

Better re-check the story of Tim McVeigh, et. al.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 13 - 09:03 AM

OK Everybody, get a load of this...

I was thinking about divide and control ideas and thought about how the Insurance industry is much bigger than the NRA.

ergo we need only pass a law for liability insurance, similar to car manufacturers and drivers AND apply it to guns. Good for owners and victims but bad for the NRA and the tpes of creeps who make and sell guns like the Criket 22 to 5 year olds.

Insurance companies would welcome a whole new profit industry written by themselves and for themselves. In the battle of the Titans of Insurance vs. Gun Manufacturers, my money is on the Insurance giants.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Megan L
Date: 19 May 13 - 09:14 AM

The see saw

When I was a little boy
The see saw was my favourite toy
But every time I tried to play
One of my brothers would always say

You can't play around here kid
We sit on either side
You can't sit in the middle lad
So run away and hide

I grew a bit and went to school
I worked so hard was no mans fool
When we ran to the sports field to play
The other kids would always say

You can't play around here kid
We play on either side
You can't sit in the middle lad
So run away and hide

And now I am a man full-grown
Far from family with a home of my own
Yet on the Internet I try to play
There's always people there who say

You can't play around here kid
We sit on either side
You can't sit in the middle lad
So run away and hide

mhtbl

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Futwick
Date: 19 May 13 - 10:07 AM

"Yes it can. I'll spell it out again. When there is some physical illness that kedps carrying off a regular proportion of the population, then we divert the best available medical brains to finding a cure. They haven't managed it for cancer yet, but they will. Most other former killers have now succumbed to the power of medical science. Not too many die of TB [the old dreaded 'consumption'] these days."

Well, when they develop a vaccine against stupidity and feelings of entitlement please be sure to let me know.

"That is a compelling argument for the carefully controlled keeping and use of hunting firearms by rural people who can distinuish between a cow, a deer and the next door neighbour. Tell me though Futwick, how many deer do you suppose are shot in city centres using automatic pistols or revolvers?"

When did I say that everybody should be armed against everybody else?

"Wrong example! His guns were licenced, so a ban would have prevented the Dunblane killings."

Wrong thing to say! I was pointing out that guns are here to stay, there can be no fully banning them and so massacres will happen and that they aren't confined to the US. By your logic, if we ban all cars there wouldn't be anymore drunken driving accidents. That would be true if we could ban all cars. If I'm wrong then why weren't guns banned in Scotland? Someone will ALWAYS have them.

"Christ, they SHOULD be - them and the "militia" and "patriot" nut case anti-government hate groups they support & vice versa. Better re-check the story of Tim McVeigh, et. al."

Fine, you go cower in the corner, little boy. Let us men do your fighting for you.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 13 - 10:16 AM

WE have the means to make stem cells out of skin cells.
My wife is directly involved in this research.

but no Fucnit, there is no vaccine against willful ignorance.

There is a vaccine in development that works on the bottom stem of the flu virus and not just the head knob which changes every year making new strains that bypass last years immunity.

It is sort of a universal flu vaccine that could be stockpiled.
but don't hold your breath for your universal innoculation.
Sesquestraion and politics is sure to eventually screw this discovery up

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 May 13 - 12:02 PM

"Well, when they develop a vaccine against stupidity and feelings of entitlement please be sure to let me know."
.,,.
Certainly. Good that you acknowledge yourself so much in need of it.
===============
"Fine, you go cower in the corner, little boy. Let us men do your fighting for you."
.,,.
Ah, yes ~~ armed to the teeth with automatic weapons. What could be more manly indeed!

~M~

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Futwick
Date: 19 May 13 - 01:26 PM

I am a gun control advocate who has wasted too much time arguing with knee-jerk PC liberals like you who think we could or should ban ALL guns which won't and can't happen. That doesn't mean I like guns. It means I am trying to present myself to gun owners as someone who is trying to be reasonable rather than as some rabid jerk who wants to take all their guns away. Until both sides find common ground there is no solution. I DO NOT OWN A GUN. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT MOST PEOPLE SHOULD OWN GUNS. I've stated this already but you apparently have a comprehension problem which you replace unsuccessfully with the snarky, smart-ass idiocy that passes for brains on mudcat.

The fact that there is a place for guns in our culture and that do they do serve legitimate beneficial purposes sticks in your craw and I'm sorry you feel that way but otherwise I don't care. The facts are the facts whether you can accept them or not.

I am not afraid of the NRA, they are bozos and Wayne LaPierre is the head clown. They're the people who talk about shooting blacks who try to move into their neighborhoods but as soon as it happens, they are the first tacking up the "For Sale" signs on the lawn ready to flee from the oh-so-uncivilized colored hordes. They have a powerful lobby, however, and have forced their agenda by buying congresspeople to kill off gun control efforts. The public then loses interest and we have to wait for the next massacre to get it started again. So the problem is really the apathetic public who give up to the gun lobby to easily. They can be reached because most of them want better gun control measures but will not listen to loonies who want to take all guns away. With hardline extremists like you, who needs the NRA to destroy gun control dialogue in this country?

And when you develop your vaccine that will make all gun owners see everything from your point of view, be sure to pass a law requiring them to line up for their shots or get thrown in jail. You'll build your master race yet, by god.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Bill D
Date: 19 May 13 - 03:18 PM

Sadly, there are layers to the embedded gun culture that are more complex than the tendency of 'folk' to 'folk process' old songs.

1)Guns are fascinating! Even people who would never dream of using one in anger, but were raised with guns around, love to collect and compare notes on them. The USA was created with guns..(even more sadly in many respects).

2)We have this ambiguous phrase in the 2nd amendment that 'sorta' says we can have them. To change an amendment requires a tortuous path of getting some brave legislators to introduce the idea, then getting other legislators who see their very election dependent on money from NRA lobbyists and other conservative factions...then IF 2/3 ofboth houses of Congress were to *gasp* pass such legislation, the new amendment must be ratified by ¾ of all the states withing a certain amount of time.

3)There are already so many firearms ...legal AND illegal.. out there, that any ban or limit would have almost no chance of making a dent in the total numbers. This is compounded by the fact that many of the militia-oriented 2nd amendment fanatics would take a ban or limitation as PROOF that their paranoid fears were true and that they needed to 'resist' and enter armed rebellion against their fascist government!

4)Since the latest 'incidents', sales of ammunition have gone thru the roof! Makers can barely keep up.


I can't think of a similar issue that you would recognize in the UK....maybe trying to ban fish & chips?

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 19 May 13 - 04:14 PM

Or trying to enforce a ban on drugs?

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 May 13 - 05:37 PM

Fine, you go cower in the corner, little boy.

Fut you too, FuckWick!

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 May 13 - 05:04 AM

"Fine, you go cower in the corner, little boy. Let us men do your fighting for you."

Well Fuckwit, you were doing fine, sounding fairly convincing, until you dropped out that little gem.

That's the kind of testosterone-overloaded horse-shit we're sick and tired of hearing from small-dick gun-nuts on here and elsewhere. It's nothing more than loud-mouth bluster, and it gains neither the gun-nut clowns nor you any respect or credit.

With attitudes like the one you showed us above, the only thing you're demonstrating is that your country is fucked.

You blew it.

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: GUEST,Futwick
Date: 20 May 13 - 12:00 PM

LOL! Look out, everyone! The country's fucked because I blew it!

Subject: RE: 5yr old shoots 2yr old
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 May 13 - 12:22 PM

I was about to apologise for mis-spelling your handle. Then I realised I got it right.