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BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here...
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Subject: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Bobert Date: 20 Aug 13 - 09:37 PM The usual suspect has had a clear path to diss Obama a hundred times here in Mudville so I figured that it was time for people who aren't eat up with hate and right winged propaganda to have their own thread to talk about why Obama isn't the devil, isn't some puppet of the rich and isn't whatever the Republicans here want to paint as being... Okay, let me start... I am not a Democrat... I am a displaced Green Party member and tireless campaign worker... I first heard Obama in a remote mountain cabin on the radio during the 2004 campaign when he spoke before the Democratic Convention... Before that night I had never heard of the guy... I was, however, impressed... Given the Bush administration and it's two wars I broke from the Green Party and went to work in the '08 Obama campaign because he had gone out on a limb, when it wasn't all that popular, to say he was against the invasion of Iraq... I agreed... If anyone had done what Obama did that early thought they might ever be re-elected then they would have been delusional... Obama did it... Then I learned that Obama didn't do the DC parties as a Senator... He was more comfortable sleeping in his office and reading legislation??? People don't do that... They don't in DC... But Obama did... This is the guy that many folks here are blasting as some kind of puppet (insider)... That is a sick joke and a BIG LIE... You don't like Obama, fine... Come here and tell me why you think that Obama could have done whatever you think he has the tools to do... Be prepared to go beyond proclamations and repeating Republican propaganda... But if that's all you have then be prepared to defend your posts... Square business... I'll be here... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Ebbie Date: 20 Aug 13 - 10:03 PM One of the reasons that people across the spectrum slam the President is for his action(s) that "invade our privacy" or "kill Americans" or "tap our phones and emails" or - a dozen other gripes. And yet. If his administration didn't do any of those things and some tragedy or disaster happened those people would be the first to complain that he had done nothing to prevent it. He can't win. I mean that, literally. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Little Hawk Date: 21 Aug 13 - 12:07 AM Obama's in the same position any president is in after the brief honeymoon that (sometimes) may follow being elected : he is the number one guy in the country to bitch about and blame for whatever goes wrong...or whatever one doesn't like...etc. He symbolizes the government, so he gets the blame. The same thing happens in Canada with our prime ministers. I hear people complaining about Mr Harper constantly. (Mr "Who???" say all the nonCanadians...well, he's hated by a lot of people here in the Great White North.) There's nothing unusual about it at all. Just look back to the years of Bush or Clinton or whoever came before them. They got bitched about constantly too by more or less half the public, accused of being terrible and evil and all that, and the usual partisan stuff played a very large part in it. Nations are bitterly divided by their political parties, and you can expect whoever gets elected to be singled out for harsh criticism once he's in office by a very large segment of the public and regarded as "the enemy" by those same people. About the only time it tends to moderate is in the early stages of a war, when people tend to rally round the flag and are afraid to be seen as "unpatriotic" if they don't. I like Obama...as a person. I was very glad to see him elected in 2008...mildly relieved to see him elected in 2012. I am quite disappointed in his foreign and domestic policy decisions, for the most part...but I haven't agreed with USA domestic OR foreign policy for about as long as I can remember, so there's nothing new about that. It's not about Obama for me...it's about the American Empire and its ambitions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Elmore Date: 21 Aug 13 - 05:13 AM Obama getting a bad rap. Do you think race might have something to do with that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: sciencegeek Date: 21 Aug 13 - 07:28 AM well, I've always been a GDI... goddamnindependent... and never heard of Obama until 2007 or 8... but what heard did impress me. And he has had to deal with circumstances that differ from Lincoln & FDR and some crucial points... and beyond the color of his skin. For Lincoln, the biggest obstacle to moving bills forward was removed when the southern states left the union... imagine the tea party essentially out of office. Go ahead Texas, go home & sulk and don't let the door hit you in the ass. And take your elected a-holes with you. Then we can get some work done before you come grovelling back. OK, that will never happen, but a gal can dream. As for FDR... the man was tied into the system and had the Washington clout & knew how to use it. And probably plenty of the dirt too. LBJ had the same kind of juice & it took every bit of it to get social reforms into law. Obama does not have the juice and he never will, even his own party is lukewarm and too busy looking out for themselves. The Dixiecrats became the conservatives... and their goal is to return America to pre Civil War society.. with a ruling class of white men and subservient wage slaves and women back into near slavery. The true test of a democracy is its ability to destroy itself... which is why the founding fathers set a republic with a system of checks & balances to overcome any temporary insanity of the nation that could destroy it. And power hungry politicians have been striving ever since to try and work around that to garner power & riches for themselves & their cronies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Ron Davies Date: 21 Aug 13 - 10:16 AM Garrison Keillor put it well back in 2011: The Republicans are accusing Obama of being the liberal the Democrats are angry at him for not being. Plus ca change.... (need French diacritical marks). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Little Hawk Date: 21 Aug 13 - 10:27 AM Beautifully put. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Suzy Sock Puppet Date: 21 Aug 13 - 11:00 AM "I like Obama...as a person. I was very glad to see him elected in 2008...mildly relieved to see him elected in 2012. I am quite disappointed in his foreign and domestic policy decisions, for the most part...but I haven't agreed with USA domestic OR foreign policy for about as long as I can remember, so there's nothing new about that. It's not about Obama for me...it's about the American Empire and its ambitions." Ditto for me Little Hawk. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Bobert Date: 21 Aug 13 - 01:20 PM There has been virtually no :domestic policy" as the Republican led House has stopped every initiative that Obama has put forward... The Affordable Care Act was all we were going to realistically get... It ain't great but it's the first step toward a single payer system like Canada and every European country has... Foreign policy??? Face it... Out of the colonial period came the client nation period... All of the powers ended up in such relationships... We have been kinda overseers of our client nations... That's not on Obama... That goes back to the end of WW II... Our client nations aren't anything that an incoming president get to pick... They convey from one president to the next... It's not that easy for any president to shake up those relationships... I'd be very interested to hear what Suzie and LH think Obama could have done differently in regards to these relationships... He didn't crank up and hot wars... That's a plus... I mean, I guess that there are those who falsely blame Obama for the Arab Spring, I donno??? If there are then I'd like to hear from them on what Obama could have done to prevent it... That's my point here... Seems that a lot of folks don't quite understand how few tools were in the White House tool box when Obama took office... Many of the tools had been taken out and broken by Bush... Many of them just taken out by the Republican Congress... I mean, there seems to be this naivety here about the executive powers... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: GUEST Date: 21 Aug 13 - 01:47 PM @Ron Davies: Plus ça change, plus c'est la même. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: GUEST Date: 21 Aug 13 - 02:12 PM PS I'll believe Obama meant well if he pardons Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden just before he leaves office. Land of the free my ass! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 21 Aug 13 - 02:18 PM Don't you think that it's about time Ameica tok some classes in basic arithmetic? Sixty percent doth not a majority make, and until America realises that la meme chose se poursuivre. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Bobert Date: 21 Aug 13 - 02:19 PM No matter what Obama does the Republicans will flop on the floor in total outrage and scream that that Obam is the worst president in the "history of the nation"... I mean, seems that if Obama passes gas or has a football team visit the White House the knee-jerkers go into their righteous indignation act... Here's the worst part about it... They have followers who believe them??? Talk about a dumbed down nation of mindless sheep??? As for pardoning Snowden and Manning??? Ain't going to happen... It would send out the wrong message to hackers everywhere that it's okay to hack into the US's intelligence and defense agencies... At a time when we are fending off over a 1000 attempts a day to hack into our sensitive stuff we don't need to be encouraging people to do so... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Bobert Date: 21 Aug 13 - 02:22 PM I don't do French, Don, but I do math and we have some very fuzzy math going on here in the US... Seems that the minority has figured out how to get themselves elected with fewer votes than the majority... In the 2012 election the Dems won the popular vote for the House, the Senate and the White House... Look at the House composition... Something very wrong... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 21 Aug 13 - 02:23 PM "America took" FFS. I hate the wife's sticky keyboard. DT. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Ron Davies Date: 21 Aug 13 - 03:45 PM Guest: you need "chose". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: gnu Date: 21 Aug 13 - 03:54 PM "I'll believe Obama meant well if he pardons Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden just before he leaves office." He can't do that. Silly thing to say. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: sciencegeek Date: 21 Aug 13 - 03:54 PM Seems that the minority has figured out how to get themselves elected with fewer votes than the majority... can you spell gerrymandering.... gerrymandering present participle of ger·ry·man·der (Verb) 1.Manipulate the boundaries of (an electoral constituency) so as to favor one party or class. 2.Achieve (a result) by such manipulation: "a total freedom to gerrymander the results they want". Splitting the voting population in favor of the group in power by any means necessary, such as specifically targeted advertising, redrawing district lines, teaching specific politics in schools, or violence. When voting irrgegulaties occur in a third world nation, the UN sends out observers... but we allow this to happen here at home. Thwart the democratic process and then wave the flag & posture as patriotic. This what our young people fight & die for???? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: VirginiaTam Date: 21 Aug 13 - 04:33 PM A couple of months ago, wrote to Obama about my concern re the unregulated cost of health care in the US. The loss of older daughter, the anxiety over the health of remaining daughter and fact that due to extortionate cost of health care in the US I am a medical exile in the UK, unable to retire back to the states and to help look after my ill daughter and aging mother. I got this reply email from the Prez today. Dear Tamara: Thank you for writing. I have been moved by the stories of Americans struggling with health care, and I appreciate your perspective. It is because of the many men and women facing frustration, hardship, and financial burden in addition to significant health problems that we worked so hard to get health reform done. I am working diligently every day to address the hardships people like you continue to face. Across our Nation, families are grappling with many difficult issues, including family illness, job losses, difficulty in paying the mortgage or rent, and staggering medical bills. It took many years to create our Nation's current challenges, and it will take time to bring about the changes our families need—but I will continue to do everything in my power to help all Americans live out their dreams. For more information on resources that may be available to you, please visit www.HealthFinder.gov/FindServices. For help with insurance or finding free or low-cost care, please visit www.HealthCare.gov. To learn about help available through the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, visit www.CMS.gov. Information about affordable insurance for children can be found at www.InsureKidsNow.gov. Those seeking assistance with health care can also call the Department of Health and Human Services at 1-877-696-6775. As we work together to improve the lives of all our citizens, please know the trials and triumphs of Americans like you motivate my Administration to work even harder to overcome the challenges before us. I am confident we will emerge from these tough times stronger than before with a renewed promise of a better future for all. Again, thank you for contacting me. I wish you all the best. Sincerely, Barack Obama I suppose most of this was composed by staff, but still good on him and staff for not ignoring my original contact. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: VirginiaTam Date: 21 Aug 13 - 04:49 PM Jesus wept. According to a Public Policy Polling survey, 29 percent of Louisiana Republicans say President Obama is more to blame for the botched executive branch response to Hurricane Katrina while just 28 percent blamed George W. Bush. A plurality of 44 percent said they were unsure who was more responsible, even though Hurricane Katrina occurred over three years before Obama entered the presidency when he was still a freshman Senator. When the Hurricane hit in 2005, Bush was slammed by both parties for errors pre- and post-Katrina. Later, a congressional report determined that a lack of presidential leadership failed the people of New Orleans. But Bush praised the federal response at the time, saying FEMA director Michael Brown was doing "a heckuva job." Since Obama took office, he has directed federal funding to rebuilding New Orleans hospitals. President Obama received some better reviews for at least one storm that actually occurred while he leads the executive branch. After Hurricane Sandy storm hit the East Coast, Republican governors Chris Christie and Bob McDonnell, praised federal efforts. Even Brown's criticism of Obama during Sandy came across as a compliment, because the disgraced FEMA director slammed Obama for responding "so quickly" to the oncoming storm. link to poll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: pdq Date: 21 Aug 13 - 05:18 PM From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia... Public Policy Polling (PPP) is a U.S. polling firm based in Raleigh, North Carolina. PPP was founded in 2001 by businessman Dean Debnam, the firm's current president and Chief Executive Officer. PPP is described as one of the "most accurate" polling companies and as a "Democratic-leaning" polling company because in its private client work, it conducts polls only for Democratic campaigns and progressive organizations. The company is known for asking unexpected and unusual questions, including those without bearing on politics, such as the approval rating of God, whether voters believe President Obama would be eligible to enter heaven in the event of the Rapture and whether hipsters should be subjected to a special tax for being annoying. Many of these questions come from suggestions by PPP readers on the company's blog. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: VirginiaTam Date: 21 Aug 13 - 05:27 PM And your point is? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Greg F. Date: 21 Aug 13 - 06:01 PM PeeDee doesn't usually HAVE a point. Plus, as usual, he's quoting Blog-O-Pedia as a reliable source. As far as the survey, never underestimate the awesome power of ignorance and stupidity: the reason why the country is turning into a TeaPublican shithole. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Elmore Date: 21 Aug 13 - 08:32 PM A bad rap? Hell, His foes are bitching because he got another black (dog) into the White House! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Ron Davies Date: 21 Aug 13 - 11:15 PM Que? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Ebbie Date: 22 Aug 13 - 01:56 AM I gather that you refer, Elmore, to the fact that the Obama's have acquired a new pup, a female of the same breed as Bo. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 22 Aug 13 - 07:10 AM From my European perspective I get the impression that a US president has very little power of his own, and thus very good excuses. "Checks and balances" translates to "nobody is really responsible"; compromises negotiated in back rooms are rarely what a nation really wants. Things seem different in Canada, where it makes (slightly) more sense to blame the Prime Minister. Those US citizens who want a responsible government must consistently press for fundamental changes in the system. A girl can dream, many girls and guys can press. Even if the chances of success do not look too good, having tried gives you an immensely better moral standing. Or rather us; similar problems exist in Canada and all other countries. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Bobert Date: 22 Aug 13 - 09:24 AM Yes, our system is badly broken and the worst part about it is that the only folks who have the power to change it are profiting from keeping it broken... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 22 Aug 13 - 10:33 AM Bobert: "Then I learned that Obama didn't do the DC parties as a Senator... He was more comfortable sleeping in his office and reading legislation??? People don't do that... They don't in DC... But Obama did..." And then after reading all this legislation, and getting a good grip on what it was about, when it was time to vote on it..he voted 'present'. Or was he really sleeping and not reading...or what he 'present' but sleeping,...or was he just non committal?..or was he just waiting for his turn, to fool the liberals? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Bobert Date: 22 Aug 13 - 11:28 AM "Present" is a vote... It is like abstaining... It doesn't mean that you don't understand the legislation... It means that you have thought about it and find enough stuff in it that you like v. stuff you don't like to vote "present"... Anyone can say yes or no... A thoughtful person, however, abstains... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Stringsinger Date: 22 Aug 13 - 11:49 AM The Democratic Party has been corrupted by money and has become the new Republican Party whereas the Republican Party has become the new Fascist Party. Obama may not have control over this but contributes to this by being a player in the political game. He has given himself over to the military establishment in the commission of war crimes. Bradley Manning's verdict will be one of the blots on his presidency. The other will be his acceptance of the deployment of drones. I suspect he will approve the XL Pipeline unless he "kicks the can down the road". His misguided support of Lawrence Summers contributes to the false program of "austerity" and "sequester" which is leading our nation into bankruptcy. Money has corrupted politics and made every politician a suspect, even the good ones such as Bernie Sanders of Vermont, John Lewis of Georgia and Barbara Lee (Texas?) It has corrupted the Supreme Court and made the Congress and Senate ineffectual. Criticisms of Obama are justified and it's racist to say that he's automatically a good president because he is black. There are many black people who I would like to see president who I think are more qualified. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: sciencegeek Date: 22 Aug 13 - 12:03 PM link to NY Times article on Obama IL voting record: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 on the federal level via opencongress link here: http://www.opencongress.org/people/voting_history/400629_barack_obama or you can plow through the relevant volumes of the Congressional Record... more than I can handle myself. the hardest thing is to verify a non-partisan relatively objective source. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Bobert Date: 22 Aug 13 - 12:54 PM I usually agree with you, Strings, but not here... Because of the neo-cons getting their way with Bush a lot of the tools that are supposed to be in a president's tool box had been taken out and either lost or broken by Bush... The reality is that Obama was dealt a very week hand and had very few tools at his disposal to fix much of anything... The Republican opposition has made it impossible to even have a domestic agenda... The neo-cons/colonialist misadventures were like time bombs for any reasonable future foreign policies to work... The Arab Spring has it roots going back decades and the countries involved are former client states of super-powers (colonialism)... So this is the what Obama inherited... Oral Roberts would have been powerless to change much of what we are seeing with this all out assault on the 99% by the 1% and their goons... This was drawn up on paper decades ago... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: sciencegeek Date: 22 Aug 13 - 01:15 PM "... the Republican Party has become the new Fascist Party." I've felt that myself for a number of years... though the Fascists of the 1930s pushed physical fitness, along with their dogmas of hate. Rush's only sport seems to be fork lifting, though the venom and lies that he spews are "worthy" of any Nazi propagandist. Unlike an open democracy that tends to embrace others, regimes - be they Fascist, Communist or whatever- need to create conflict and the US vs THEM mentality. Many writers/commentators have expressed their inability to understand the Kamakazi pilots - young, usually well educated men who willingly sacrificed themselves for what they knew was a lost cause. I, too, found it bewildering... until a year or so ago when I saw a documentary that had footage of the youth training efforts done by the Japanese government in the 1920s & '30s. How similar to the Nazi Youth organizations and other youth groups that were indoctrinated young to hate. The conservative right wants to take over the American educational system so they can indoctrinate their belief system into most vulnerable segment of our culture. Scary as all ehll IMHO. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Stringsinger Date: 22 Aug 13 - 03:55 PM Bobert, you are in a state of denial. Obama murdered three American citizens by ordering drone strikes on his "kill list". Two of them were innocent of any wrong doing. Drones are using cluster bombs and killing "collateral damage". I call that murder. Obama killed Osama with a trial. He also had John Kiriakou, a CIA whistleblower imprisoned for spilling the beans on torture. Obama is responsible for the Afghanistan debacle. He has continued Bush's policies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: sciencegeek Date: 22 Aug 13 - 04:13 PM OK... Obama is not perfect... neither was Washington... or any of the rest that followed. America survived the Revolution... the War of 1812...the Civil War.. two world wars... Vietnam as well as a past of waging genocide against the Native tribes... the Japanese internment camps Being a country made up of human beings, we are far less than perfect. So I ask... of the two choices available in 2008 & 2012, are you really ready to say that going with another Republican was a sane & rational path to take. Not in my book. For all our faults, we are still a powerful nation and the thought of the Conservative Right dismantling our democracy for another 8 years and quite possibly starting a third world war is just not something I like to think about. In 2001, world opinion was pretty favorable for us... Bush then proceeded to unite two bitter rivals - France & Germany- against our policies. There's a form of statesmanship for the books. Or should the 99% go the Ivory soap route & become the 99.9% & give it all to Romney, Cheney & the rest of the financial parasites. Give me Break! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Bobert Date: 22 Aug 13 - 04:18 PM Okay, Strings... If you knew that someone was going to try to fuck you up and you had the means to prevent it, would you use those means or allow them to do what they wanted to do... Yeah, I would love to see the US play a more adult and mature player in foreign policy matters but the things that are going on now have deep roots... Maybe you could tell us specifically what you would have done if you had credible information that these 3 American citizens had joined up with Al-Qaeda and were out to fuck us up??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Suzy Sock Puppet Date: 22 Aug 13 - 05:20 PM Bobert, guess who is in my hometown only 14 miles away from where I live now? Mr. Obama himself! He came to see the Seward House and Harriet Tubman house. He's staying at the Holiday Inn, just him and his staff. Protestors are waiting for him in Syracuse tomorrow. Not to worry, it's the anti-frackers. But nothing will happen here. 'Cept some will probably be disappointed that they didn't get to meet him. I'm sure Rev. Carter and his wife Christine will meet him (they are the curators of the Tubman house). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Suzy Sock Puppet Date: 22 Aug 13 - 05:50 PM Whoa! Military choppers overhead. El Presidente is in the house! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Bobert Date: 22 Aug 13 - 07:35 PM Cool, Suze... I like Obama... I'd loved to have played a little b-ball with him but my game is gone, gone, gone... I think I can talk as much trash as he can talk in the basketball floor... As for fracking??? Inside I'm sure that Obama knows that fracking is frackin' stupid... I mean, people saying the next big war will be fought over water so what are we doing??? Taking perfectly good drinking water and mixing a bunch of secret chemicals into it and pumping it down under ground where the rest of the good water is??? Huh??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: gnu Date: 22 Aug 13 - 07:45 PM I am a serious Afracker (anti-fracker) and we have a BIG fight going on here so if anyone has some Afrack shit ta send me, please do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: sciencegeek Date: 23 Aug 13 - 09:07 AM Suzy... it seems he also made a surprise stop in Rochester... which is just 30 miles north of my office.... One of the must accessible websites is the EPA and they are really pushing renewable energy sources, but the petrochemical industry has a lot of clout still and have been obstructing any serious rivalry for decades. With the funding of those tactics ultimately being passed on to the consumer. Oh, and while you guys are moaning about fracking chemicals being added to groundwater.... have you given a thought to the bottled water industry. Basically wholesale theft of groundwater from local communities to be sold with absurd profit around the world. Or the historic abuses of taking water that should be going downstream to Mexico, but being diverted for cities built in American deserts. And if Romney had been elected, I have no doubt that every piece of federal land around here would have fracking wells on them. 'cause they'd be exempt from state regulations and they'd ignore the Clean Water Act just the way they did all the other inconvenient environmental and social justice laws out there. My experience with politicos has been that at least most Democrats try to work in the system... but the Republican have been petty tyrants that think that laws only apply to others, not them. I base this on 30 years in state service, working with politicians & their political appointees. You get the real measure of a person when they get some power. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Bobert Date: 23 Aug 13 - 09:37 AM They say "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"... Here in NC the Koch brothers and Art Pope bought the statehouse and are now ramming right wing legislation thru at a dizzying speed... They don't even hold debate/discussion on lots of them. They just put the bill on the floor and vote with no warning and no debate... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Greg F. Date: 23 Aug 13 - 10:47 AM Sounds like fascism to me, Bobert...... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Bobert Date: 23 Aug 13 - 11:07 AM Well yeah, Greg... Feels like it, too... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Stringsinger Date: 23 Aug 13 - 03:47 PM "Maybe you could tell us specifically what you would have done if you had credible information that these 3 American citizens had joined up with Al-Qaeda and were out to fuck us up???" I would have checked my sources carefully and not made a rash decision based on self-serving power needs. The Al-Qaeda threat is being used today in the same way the Communist threat was used by McCarthy to make many lives miserable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Bobert Date: 23 Aug 13 - 04:47 PM Well, Strings... There is a very good chance that hitting these guys wasn't a "rash decision"... Obama doesn't seem to take these decisions lightly... I do, however, agree that there are some similarities between what we are seeing now and McCarthyism... I wish that Obama could figure out some way back us out of the imperialistic foreign policy that has had us by the balls going back 50 years... I think that pushing for an Israeli-Palestinian settlement is the correct 1st step... Our blind support of Israel is fuel on the fire for young Muslims and if we can get that fixed it will open up some other avenues... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Getting a Bad Rap Here... From: Bill D Date: 23 Aug 13 - 07:11 PM "...not made a rash decision based on self-serving power needs." It is one thing to disagree with a decision, but it is quite another use the same faulty logic you accuse someone else of to condemn them! You say HE didn't have proper information to make his decision, but then YOU claim it was "based on self-serving power needs".... and that is pure speculation to condemn something YOU don't like. Then you go on:"The Al-Qaeda threat is being used today in the same way the Communist threat was used by McCarthy to make many lives miserable." ,...and that is nonsense! Joe McCarthy invented 'commies' out of wholecloth to label anyone he didn't like, whereas there is clear intelligence about Al-Qaeda and Al-Qaeda wannabes, and many Al-Qaeda operatives have been killed by drones which, despite the always regrettable 'collateral damage' is far less than traditional warfare! We are not IN a traditional 'war' any more, and probably never will be again. We are learning how to combat enemies who use terror fueled by religion... and it is not easy to decide how to proceed. Unless you can claim to read minds, it is foolish to categorically state that you can decipher motives of those who sort thru thousands of possible courses of action in dozens of categories every day! My ex-wife of 40 years ago 'analyzed' any action of mine that she disagreed with as proof that "I didn't care about her feelings" I sure am reminded of her in these days of knee-jerk reactions to political issues and figures. |
