BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 03:56 PM

No.
Some are celibate by choice, some too old, some too young.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:03 PM

Yes, indeed- thus the discourse in ths thread.

One, that for the most part, involves a very few, as it leads to nowhere.

Just my observation. Not that it matters that much.:)

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 04:33 PM

Ed, If you read my post CAREFULLY, you would see that I focus in on 'PROMISCUITY', and the type of people who engage in it, ('Stupid')without regard for the consequences of BOTH parties involved. I made it VERY clear that I was inclusive of BOTH hetero and homo(those who 'fuck' are 'fuckers'). I thought 'Stupid Fuckers' was the shortest, most succinct, accurate description of those sorts of people...it was a lot shorter than typing out, 'Sexually active sociopaths who have disregard for the consequences to themselves, the other person(s) or society, as a result of their actions)....Naw, "Stupid Fuckers" is faster...I even shortened 'Dumb Fuck' to DF....(A 'Dumb Fuck' is usually the 'recipient' of a 'Stupid Fucker' or, is just self-initiated, as being the 'Fuck-ee').....and by the way, the slang term, which is oft used in a vulgar manner, has its origins, in the same context...so, it really ISN'T a vulgar and/or disgusting post, is it?...thought it DOES show concern for the 'victims' of promiscuity...though it may not be consistent with YOUR vision of 'political correctness'.

I hope I've cleared that up..

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 05:03 PM

Ok gfs, thanks for taking the time to clear that up.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 06:23 PM

I thought you'd get it!
Seems pretty simple to me....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Disgusted
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 09:28 PM

In the matter of sex ("fucking," in the minds of some), does love and affection never play a strong, a most important part? Not, apparently, in the mind of creatures like Guest from Sanity (!??) and a few others who seem to feel that shoving their penis into any orifice, possibly including a knot-hole, the business end of a Shop-Vac, or the genital or anal orifice of anyone of either gender available, and wobbling it about until they climax constitutes the be-all and end-all of the matter.

No love and affection. Just "fucking."

I find some people absolutely disgusting!!

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 10:05 PM

Well 'Disgusted', being as if you think as you write, you picked an appropriate name...it seems like the outlook of your life....I can't help that...Must be 'Genetic'......or is it that sometimes you find that you were a Stupid Fucker, and haven't stopped trying to justify it, and turn it into being 'liberated'???

Fascinated,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Disgusted
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 11:09 PM

I have a rich, full sex-life. I have been happily married to the same woman for decades and I have never "dumb fucked" in my life. I leave that to vermin like you.

Disgusted

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Apr 14 - 11:13 PM

You're like not like me??? Well, I've been married to the same woman, and have had kids, from the same woman, that I delivered at home, and loved them while they were still in the womb...so it sounds like we have the same values....are you suggesting that I promote something that I wouldn't do, or believe in myself??...How about you?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 02:40 AM

Getting defensive Goofus?

Shouldn't be such a disgusting little shit then.



One aspect of gay lifestyle that organisations such as Stonewall mention is that a large number of gay men would not be turned on by anal sex any more than the same number of heterosexual men. This does not preclude making love and enjoying each other's bodies.

The fascination with anal sex usually says more about those for whom the fascination exists.

Yes

You.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:10 AM

Dave, what is the difference please between sexually active male homosexuals and MSM?

Very little, Keith. But you know full well that is not the point I was making. I specifically said that MSM does not equal homosexual. Note there is no mention of sexually active in the later term. Meaning that the targeted group should be those who have unprotected sex with multiple partners. Not all homosexuals are in the group so why target all homosexuals?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Musket
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 06:12 AM

Possibly because the object of the exercise is to cherry pick historic statistics as a weapon to vilify sections of society.

On that subject. The change in law to allow home testing kits, once fully available, to be used to test for HIV is, in the opinion of The Terence Higgins Trust a huge milestone as many people still have issues coming forward due to the stigma that stems from bigotry. Concerns still exist regarding availability and supply and worryingly, people being in denial if they don't take up the support that GU clinic or routine hospital testing can offer.

Still around 25,000 people out there, in all classes, if meta analysis is accurate who may be carrying but not yet showing symptoms. Add the warnings around promiscuous lifestyle of young heterosexual people and older people who think STDs are a young person ailment, and we have a large issue building up.

One not helped by pointing at one possible source of spread and stigmatising them.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 06:46 AM

What is actually happening, is that the true nature of the condition(STD transmission) is about to be concealed by Political Correctness, on the grounds that it is "discriminatory" to tell the truth.

If the true nature of the condition and those most massively affected by it is concealed, then MSM will be the real losers.

Their only hope to halt the epidemic, is to increase testing and contact tracing amongst their own demographic.

Time to face facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 07:04 AM

Like a spiral in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning
On an ever spinning reel...

How do we increase testing and contact tracing ake?

What is 'their own demographic'?

It has never been discriminatory to tell the truth. It is discriminatory to stereotype a whole swathe of society as promiscuous perverts.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 08:05 AM

MSM(men who have sex with men) are a recognised demographic, according to the health agencies, from which comes 70% of all new cases of HIV and Syphilis, plus, much higher than normal rates of all male STDs.

Is that providing information, or "stigmatising a whole swathe of society as promiscuous perverts?"

If it is the latter, I suggest you take the matter up with CDC in the US and HPE in the UK.

But you had better be quick, for before long the publishing of results by demographic will be banned and HIV rates will miraculously fall......all will be well with the world....sleep.....sleep.....

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 08:17 AM

The term MSM was coined by the agencies themselves, to define by behaviour not identity.
No-one calls themselves MSM, so you target the group that encompasses MSM.

PHE only uses MSM.
NAT uses gay men and MSM interchangeably.
Remember bisexual men are included in MSM.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 08:31 AM

Amongst MSM, the new infection rate for HIV, has risen by 8 to 10% annually, for the last decade.
New infection rates in all other demographics are falling. That demonstrates that MSM are unwilling or unable to respond to the information and education provided by the agencies.

Time to face the facts, anyone who is interested in public health.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 08:57 AM

HIV 


New HIV diagnoses

2.3 million new HIV infections worldwideNew HIV infections have fallen by 33% since 2001New HIV infections among adults and adolescents decreased by 50% or more in 26 countries between 2001 and 2012The number of new infections amongst children worldwide was 34% lower than in 2009.

AIDS-related deaths

1.6 million AIDS-related deaths in 2012 (down from 2.3 million in 2005).1.1 million people who developed TB were living with HIV in 2012. TB remains the leading cause of death amongst people living with HIV globally.  Since 2004, TB related deaths amongst people living with HIV has declined by 36% worldwide.- See more at: http://www.nat.org.uk/hiv-facts/statistics/international-statistics.aspx#sthash.3A6uja57.dpufa href="http://www.nat.org.uk/hiv-facts/statistics/international-statistics.aspx">HIV 

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 09:02 AM

"No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery."

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 09:40 AM

Is that providing information, or "stigmatising a whole swathe of society as promiscuous perverts?"

It is providing information. You also know who did the stigmatising. Tell me, ake, did you ever answer that question? You know, the one that goes "Do you believe that homosexuals are perverts"?

The term MSM was coined by the agencies themselves, to define by behaviour not identity.

Absolutely spot on, Keith. It is behaviour that matters. Not preferences. Take note, ake.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Musket
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 09:48 AM

Go looking. I just spent less than 30 secs to find trend reports for three areas of England. The national figures for the next period will be released publicly later this sumer, as all figures up to end of March are. Using provisional figures, the trends show exactly what I said they did. Possibly because I was looking at them. Thick twat.

The Dept of Health, The NHS nor PHE make things up. If you don't like reality, I suggest you keep to your delusional world. When you have quite finished putting words in my mouth, you might wish to put some truthful ones in your own. It may hurt slightly, but you should get used to it.

Akenaton. Why stop at one lie? Your stats do indeed appear in historical prevalence figures. Your reading of them do indeed appear in right wing hate and religious sites. Some of us are briefed daily in case we are asked by mainstream media or politicians.

Brilliant coincidence eh? By the way, you will find it is BNP who advise their members to say "marriage" rather than marriage.

To whom it may concern? Certainly concerning if it was stated by anyone important...

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 09:57 AM

The post From:
GUEST,Musket
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 02:40 AM
is just silly projection and too silly to even respond to...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 10:36 AM

It is great that we have new, right up to date figures to see how the trends are going.
When will you show them to us?

If the trends have indeed reversed, that will make the news.
I am surprised it hasn't already.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 12:38 PM

Well, you know political ideologists, if they don't have the figures, they just make them up!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 01:54 PM

Ten percent of all car thieves are left-handed, All polar bears are left-handed -If your car is stolen, there's a 10 percent chance it was nicked by a Polar bear

More than 90 percent of violent crimes are committed within 24 hours of eating bread

Numbers are like people; torture them enough and they'll tell you anything.

Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable. Mark Twain

Statistics are like a lamppost to a drunk--they're used more for support than illumination. 

Statistics are like whores, play with them long enough and they'll do anything for you



."

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 01:59 PM

Keith - Even I, with my dull intellect, can remember Musket telling us that he cannot show us the figures until they are officially released. Can you not just accept even that as being true? Maybe it is a half full half empty thing but until proven otherwise I assume people tell the truth.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 03:53 PM

He told us that over 4 months ago.
Perhaps he is being honest this time, but seeing is believing.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 04:49 PM

"Denial,they say, stands for"Don't even notice I am lying." Human beings are the only animals who are happily lied to by our own minds about what is actually happening around us." 
― Cesar Millan

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:39 PM

...and 95% of all forest fires are caused by trees.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 14 - 05:41 PM

Half the people in the world are below average intelligence.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 12:19 PM

Musket, you suggested we, "Go looking. I just spent less than 30 secs to find trend reports for three areas of England."

Did you mean you found them on the net and we should do the same.
I have tried and failed.
Will you not help us with a link.
I am sure I am not the only one anxious to learn more.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Musket
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 02:33 PM

When the figures are released, it will be irrelevant anyway. (Old figures and only refined to keep consistent with new reporting systems for the following 12 months that ended last week.) I said that adding the final three months put the gay prevalence from just over 50% to just under. A couple of percent difference but enough to stop the awful "most" demonisation that bigots cling to. Hence Keith getting on his bandwagon. He has known for a long time that I sent a link to an intranet page inadvertently. He loves to think people forget that and keeps bringing it up to make me look a cunt. Well, if the worm and Goofus think I'm a cunt, I'm happy, because if people with their problem liked me, I'd shave the dog's arse and send him out to work for me, because I wouldn't be worth bothering with.

The only reason Keith is hung up about this is that his take on life gets questioned from time to time. Bullies don't like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 04:20 PM

Musket, for a decade the MSM infections have been rising and overtook all others combined in 2011.

It is very hard to believe that the long established trend has completely reversed!
And all within 3 months!
Even less believable.

You suggested that we,
"Go looking. I just spent less than 30 secs to find trend reports for three areas of England."

Did you mean you found them on the net and we should do the same.
If not, where should we "go looking?"
You said I was a "thick twat" for not looking.
How am I supposed to do that?

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 04:53 PM

I never said I thought you were a 'cunt'...jeez..at best, just stubbornly attached to bad propaganda.


...and another thing, how come when people DON'T bury their heads in the sand, post figures that show a certain segment of society, are both carriers and vulnerable of a life threatening disease, and call for measures to insure their safety and the health of ALL concerned, do the 'politically correct nut-jobs' instantly attach 'hate' as the motive to correct it??????

Now You got me wondering WHO are the people who want everyone to stand-by, while those same people infect and contract this fatal disease????...Somebody's got you hoodwinked!

Something to think about......

GfS

P.S. That's for those who know about thinking BEFORE re-acting!

P.P.S. 'Re-acting' and 'responding' are TWO different things!~

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 05:44 PM

Musket,
Go looking. I just spent less than 30 secs to find trend reports for three areas of England.
The national figures for the next period will be released publicly later this sumer, as all figures up to end of March are. Using provisional figures, the trends show exactly what I said they did. Possibly because I was looking at them. Thick twat.

Are these available on line or not.
If not why did you tell us to go looking for them?

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Apr 14 - 10:32 PM

Keith, Musket doesn't care..he's more concerned with his politics, and 'political correctness' than reality...and who is crazy enough to believe politicians, and imitation activists??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 08:39 AM

Musket, you have ignored my posts so I guess you can give no links.

I said that adding the final three months put the gay prevalence from just over 50% to just under.

That would require a sudden and dramatic reversal of the rising trend for MSM, and/or of the falling trend for others.
(presuming you mean new infections and not prevalence. MSM are well below 50% prevalence)

Presumably you understand how rare and unlikely such events are, so you must see why there are issues of credibility, made worse because the only evidence is contained in figures that only you can see.

I have a suggestion.
I am sure you would trust someone like Dave to see the secret figures and not to pass them on.
He could then confirm your interpretation of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 11:43 AM

Keith, He doesn't care about people, only himself...if he wants 'input', he just puts his head back up his ass!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Musket
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 12:35 PM

Just checking in.

They get weirder.   Never thought I'd say this, but I am beginning to agree with ONS.

zzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 01:40 PM

No good asking me lads. I am far from qualified to interpret any statistics on health issues. As I suspect are most people on this thread!

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 01:43 PM

You could confirm that they exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Apr 14 - 05:03 PM

Well the point is surely not how MANY MSM as opposed to heterosexuals, are presenting new infections, but the rates at which they present those infections.
There is such a massive difference in the MSM population and the heterosexual population, that real numbers are meaningless.
NEW infections of HIV and Syphilis are very rare among heterosexuals, but run at epidemic proportions amongst MSM.

Hence it is important to supply infection rates by demographic, as not to do so would completely distort the real problems of transmission.

If the figures were presented as one number for all cases of new infections, we would be unaware which sections of society required targeting.....the figures would show a gradual fall and the epidemic amongst MSM could be concealed.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 08:18 AM

alcohol consumption and testing 

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 08:18 AM

I am sorry if I misunderstood you.
If I did, others might have too.
Please explain what you really meant.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 08:23 AM

Here is the quote Musket.
" I said that adding the final three months put the gay prevalence from just over 50% to just under."

If we are discussing new infections, that would require a remarkable reversal of the trend which has been going the other way for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 01:31 PM

Akenaton: "There is such a massive difference in the MSM population and the heterosexual population, that real numbers are meaningless.
NEW infections of HIV and Syphilis are very rare among heterosexuals, but run at epidemic proportions amongst MSM."

If anyone, including 'Guest' who posted a link to the CDC, even read the link he posted, (while supporting Musket's position), the CDC backs up Akenaton's claims, and even uses the word 'epidemic'...AND shows the percentages of MSM as opposed to other groups....However 'Guest' (probably a 'DF'), only found a phrase or two that stuck out in his head, and failed to read any further, to see that his post VERY much backs up Akenaton's claims.
there is another link that he posted that backs up my claims about 'receptors'....but he probably didn't read that link all the way, either!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Apr 14 - 05:09 PM

Thanks Sanity, they have a "child lock" on their brains, which doesn't allow them to view any fact or statistic which may upset their agenda.

Fair enough if that's what rocks your boat, but when they want to go around installing them into the whole of humanity.......I cry foul!

Orwell would have frowned on the practice.

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 02:42 AM

You're welcome!...Besides, though we may have taken a lot of flak for it, we told them the truth!..........and proved that it was!!....and guess what??....We actually DON'T 'hate' anyone!!!

Regards!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 03:39 AM

So, the man who believes homosexuals are perverts and the one who believes homosexuality can be cured are in agreement. No surprise there really.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Discussion of HIV transmission.
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 10 Apr 14 - 03:58 AM

Keith really hasn't thought through his latest smear tactic has he?

In a year of figures of a few thousand cases, he questions how moving the figures by six months forward can produce a few percent difference.

He thinks he can be clever by confusing an annual figure with a rolling total.

Sorry Keith. As I said, you are dealing with the grown ups when you delve into health epidemiology and delivery. I am expected to swat local councillors like flies at overview and scrutiny committees and you aren't in the league of any of them. (Except perhaps the BNP councillor who asked why we shouldn't concentrate on decent English people first before immigrants and queers. Not easy to answer him either , so our delegation stood up and left.

I may stop feeding your habit on this thread too for that matter. You must be intelligent enough to know the flaw of your interpretation of statistics. The worm and Goofus lack the intelligence to know why they bark at other dogs. It's just instinct borne of low IQ. You however seem yo be able to form calculated attacks.

That's disappointing.