BS: American Pie

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Janie
Date: 04 May 14 - 11:41 PM

OK, fresh fruit pie bakers - do you prefer tapioca or cornstarch for a thickener, or do you eschew thickeners all together?

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 May 14 - 11:51 PM

Bovrilis a brand name here for a well-known brand of what is called beef-tea. Balti is a sort of curry --

Wikipedia -- A Balti (Balti: བལི་, Urdu: بلتی‎) is a type of curry served in a thin, pressed steel wok-like "balti bowl".[1] It is served in many restaurants in the United Kingdom. The consensus appears to be that the term refers to the pot in which the curry is cooked,[2][unreliable source?] rather than to any specific ingredient or cooking technique, although it is stated that it is cooked until the cooking liquid has largely evaporated. [3]
Where the Balti style of cooking originated is uncertain; some believe it to have been invented in Birmingham, England while others believe it originated in the northern Pakistani region of Baltistan in Kashmir from where it spread to Britain.[4]

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 05 May 14 - 01:46 AM

(off topic) Balti has a rather typical "Bengali" style to it (or Bengali-British). Other side of the Subcontinent (rather than [current] Pakistan side).

I magically made balti one day when I was making a typically Punjabi (often assumed the generic North Indian style of food) one day but changed it by adding a can of *coconut* milk!

I don't know how exactly they make balti in London, by my coconut milk concoction tasted to me "just like" the balti-s I ate there!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 05 May 14 - 02:51 AM

I have a mate who's parents were born in part of Kashmir. He sticks to the Baltistan theory.

It isn't an American pie. It just shows how pies can capture culinary imagination our side of the pond. (They are mass produced Pukka Pie and aren't exactly haute cuisine but there again, other than avoiding relegation, our season hasn't been top class either.

I have rarely seen meat pie in The States, although to be fair, I haven't always been looking.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 May 14 - 05:07 AM

No-one has mentioned those gorgeous and addictive Scottish circular mutton pies with three holes in the top. The pastry is slightly dusty and gritty on the outside, and when you heat them up, lovely grease oozes from the three holes. If this sounds disgusting it isn't, because they are to die for. Just don't dwell too long on what might be inside them. I must have eaten hundreds when I lived 'up there'.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 05 May 14 - 08:58 AM

"OK, fresh fruit pie bakers - do you prefer tapioca or cornstarch for a thickener, or do you eschew thickeners all together?"

tapioca for berry pies... & a squirt of lemon juice to balance out the sugar.

for a strawberry or rubarb pie - which is more like a fruit pie, then cornstarch or arrowroot to get that smooth texture.

I guess it's as much what you grew up with as anything...

just please not that thickened corn syrup topped with Cool Whip!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 05 May 14 - 09:41 AM

No one has mentioned a favorite pie from my childhood, occasionally made by my maternal grandmother and my mother: Strawberry-rhubarb.

In the back of our house lot we had rhubarb growing. Since we didn't have strawberry plants, they had to be bought at the grocery store.
In the absence of strawberries, an occasional pie was rhubarb pie
without the berry addition. Good, but not as good as strawberry-rhubarb.

Not a pie, but rhubarb sauce, served with hot, buttered toast, was a
real spring treat. Ingredients: rhubarb, sugar, and water, boiled
together. Getting the sugar content "just right" was a challenge.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 05 May 14 - 10:18 AM

Mike's mom tried everything to get him to eat rubarb in any form... no go. Then I know folks who actually eat rubarb raw from the garden. Go figure.

I prefer strawberry rubarb pie because it is tart and sweet, but not too sweet. I'd rather eat fresh strawberries than the jam or pies. Strawberry shortcake with lots of freshly whipped cream.... hmmmmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 May 14 - 12:09 PM

Here in Calgary, rhubarb is one of the first plants to rise above the ground in our "Spring," it is well-leafed out already, even beating the dandelion.

We make rhubarb pies, but prefer it without strawberries.

We prefer tapioca as a thickener, when we have to use it. Cornstarch adds a flavor we don't like.

A favorite pie of ours is blueberry, made with the small berried plants. We had the plants on our little "farm," growing wild. The fresh are not available in Calgary, but we can get them frozen at the market. The larger blueberries sold fresh here are poor in taste, and a poor substitute.

I guess Canada, which once had a large proportion of Scottish and northern English settlers, for that reason, has meat pies in most markets; good to indifferent. Also the Quebec tourtiere had spread across Canada.
Lamb is popular here, but few people like the taste of mutton and it is seldom seen in the stores. Beef, pork and chicken pies are the most common; good pasties are made here.

Not mentioned yet is Key lime. These little, strong-flavored limes used to be hard to get, but now they are available for much of the year. Lovely chiffon pies.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 May 14 - 12:29 PM

We had rhubarb crumble from our garden, but no matter how much sugar I bunged in, it was still a bit tart for me. Husband loves it though. Lovely idea to add strawberries DaveO. Must try that when strawberries come into season.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 May 14 - 01:12 PM

Rhubarb varieties vary in tartness and color.
Look in nursery catalogues for sweeter varieties. We have one that was developed in Alberta, a cultivar of Canada Red.
Canada Red is sweet, juicy and has tender stems (not stringy).

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 05 May 14 - 01:12 PM

I like rhubarb and strawberry too! Such a rosy concoction, perfect with vanilla custard or ice-cream.

As for thickeners, I've never used tapioca, but I have used cornflour. Having never used the former I don't know which is preferable.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 May 14 - 02:42 PM

The mysterious thing is, Q, we already have three different varieties of rhubarb in the garden, and last year they were all as sweet as anything. I think it may have something to do with the lack of rain over the past weeks, and naughty Eliza didn't put any compost on the crowns last autumn. Will belatedly stick wodges of compost on the surrounding earth and get husband to hose the patch generously. Maybe that will sweeten up the rhubarb. I notice that our Bramley apple tree has tons of blossom this spring. That means tons of juicy cooking apples in September, and tons of home-made apple pies for ourselves, the church Harvest Supper, friends and neighbours. Yum!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 05 May 14 - 08:21 PM

I have a mate who's parents were born in part of Kashmir. He sticks to the Baltistan theory.

Well he would now, wouldn't he? haha… Though "part of Kashmir" =/= Baltistan per se … more of an obscure cultural region related to Tibetans.

The food is made in a balti (a bowl-shaped vessel) and served in baltis (those silly little bowls), so I'm gonna say they called it after that. It's more like a gimmick made for non-South Asian Britons, to make it seem like it is something special beyond the old familiar "curry."

So far as it means something about the food's style, it seems to be specifying (at best) what might be called "wok-style" dishes. A default way to cook North Indian food is to stew it at length in a pot, but some dishes may be made quickly in a wok-like vessel usually called karaahi… but balti is an alternate name for that vessel. I could go on, but this is off topic already :)

Suffice to say, today's "balti" is similar to yesterday's "curry": British-born category that is broad and doesn't connect directly to a concept in India.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 06 May 14 - 03:27 AM

True. But there again, I used to tease him that it came from Birmingham.

There again, he said he was Kashmiri but was officially Pakistani. We heathen English marked the boundaries then fail to know where and what they are....

In essence, balti pie is a marketing trick and doesn't lend cuisine excellence to the concept of pie. Nice at half time though.

Gala Pie. Now you're talking.

(This is about American pies, but Americans only really understand fruity pies and meat pies of any description are the dogs bollocks. (Literally, in Korea.)

In the film American Pie, if memory of dismal films serves me well, it had to be a fruit pie of some description as a meat pie might count as beastiality?

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 May 14 - 04:09 AM

And what about Starry-Gazy pie, which has fish heads sticking out of the top (gazing at the stars, get it?) A Cornish delicacy I believe. Sounds a bit, well, gruesome.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 06 May 14 - 05:07 AM

I always reckoned Batemans Good Honest Ales had fish heads in it judging by the taste.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 14 - 08:41 AM

But it isn't about American pies, it's about huckleberry pies, shepherds' pies, mince pies, apple pies...
Now in Belgium, because they didn't have Steak Tatare before the arrival of the Armerican Army in 1944, they call it Américain. I keep wondering if someone ever got tempted to put real American in it - much like Mrs Lovett did in Fleet Street, reputedly.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 May 14 - 02:43 PM

Popular American pies include chiffon, meringue, and cream pies ("Boston Cream"). Very little can be omitted.

In France, I was a fan of their fruit tarts, which are essentially open pies with fresh or lightly cooked fruit. The crust is different, and pastry cream is a frequent addition. I will put a recipe in a different thread.

Germans, Poles and East Europeans have many varieties of steak tartare, with or without the egg in the mix, usually with chopped onion.
I fondly remember a German beer garden, associated with a German club, Sangerrunde Hall, in Austin, Texas, some 50 or so years ago. A large steak tartare was 75 cents and a large mug of dark beer was 15 cents- a feast for poor students. I am told I wouldn't recognize the up-scaled place now.
I always associated the dish with the large colony of Germans in central Texas; in any case it is not an "American" invention.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: JennieG
Date: 07 May 14 - 12:13 AM

An favourite Ozzie recipe is the fruit sponge, which is called "fruit cobbler" in some other parts of the world - very lightly cooked or raw fruit topped with cake batter, then baked. Less effort than making pie crusts and probably lighter in flavour, and that crusty cake-y top is yummy. Serve with fresh cream, custard or ice cream.

Apple and rhubarb is a nice combination, especially if the apple is Golden Delicious which has enough sweetness to counteract the rhubarb's tartness. Come to think on it, there is some rhubarb in the freezer as we speak and Golden Delicious have started appearing in the local fruit shop.....could be rhubarb and apple sponge on the menu this weekend......

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 May 14 - 02:19 AM

Pineapple makes a pretty good sweetener for rhubarb, and goes well with rhubarb in pies and other baked goods.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 May 14 - 03:15 AM

I have a rather weird yearning for raw meat from time to time. I like to nibble the 'extra lean mince' we get from Tesco's. Steak tartare sounds lovely, BUT my bossy doc sister told me to stop eating raw meat At Once. Apparently one can get all sorts of really nasty things from uncooked meat. She usually knows her stuff, so I don't nibble any more.
Joe, I'll try your pineapple tip for sweetening rhubarb.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 07 May 14 - 03:36 AM

I put a bit of ginger in with my rhubarb Joe. Makes a crumble divine. When we get back from holiday at the weekend I expect a decent crop of the stuff. It wasn't far off when we left. I may be spending Sunday stewing it down and freezing it in batches.

Nothing wrong with raw meat Eliza. Just be careful of beast and cut. Dark meats such as beef, lamb, venison etc are fine so long as the cut isn't near the lights or giblets. I prefer my steak rare or even blue. I love tartare and carpaccio too.

An interesting aside. I always look for opportunities to bore people with old jokes. Well, in Cape town the other year a bored waiter had to put up with me asking for "crocodile carpaccio and make it snappy."

Made my day to see Mrs Musket put her head in her hands.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 May 14 - 06:43 AM

No response to my second post on this thread, the one word "pecan". One of my main recollections of my many trips to US is the deliciousness of pecan pie, which for some reason never seems to have caught on here. Nobody else like it or feel it worth a mention?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 May 14 - 06:44 AM

McLoL, McMusket...

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 07 May 14 - 08:47 AM

this thread just reminded me of a pie my mom would make for special company... Nesselrode pie - Bavarian cream pie with shaved unsweetened chocolate on top.

The USA is such a mish mosh of different cultures that settled in every which direction that each geographic region has some very unique customs and foods.

I remember my mom cooking and baking from scratch... and excess pie dough was rolled out and cut into strips that were then sprinkled with butter & sugar or jelly and then baked. My brother & I divyed up the cut dough and made our own creations. Nice memories.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 May 14 - 09:33 AM

I'm afraid I also adore raw lambs' liver and kidneys. I've eaten them for years, but my domineering sis has finally vetoed it. She says I'll become infested with flukes (or some such). She's always harping on like the Voice of Doom. She's says I should 'worm' my poor husband when he gets back from Cote d'Ivoire after a 4 week stay with his parents in August! They don't seem to have any kind of pies at all in W Africa. (not any that I've come across anyway) I wonder if it's because their food is cooked in pots boiling on charcoal fires, or grilled over the fires. Not easy to do pastry pies without a proper oven. Pity, because flour is relatively cheap, cheaper than rice.

(Sorry about this Thread Drift!)

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 07 May 14 - 09:51 AM

take heart... you CAN bake over an open fire...

cast iron cookware with lids to hold coals & wire hangers to either suspend over the fire or legs to sit in the coals.

I recently found an Australian campfire cookbook about outback cooking - but there are plenty of info here in the states about what we would refer to as cowboy or cattlemen roundup cooking. I've even seen a cooking show on campfire cooking. Big Dutch Ovens designed for campfire use. Bake bisquits or cakes, I'm sure a pie pan could fit in one.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: pdq
Date: 07 May 14 - 10:43 AM

I suspect that pecan pie and sweet potato pie are likely to be found in the South.

Pecan may be native to the southern tip of Illinois, but its entire range corresponds to our South rather well.

I also suspect that rhubarb, apple, custard and others should be credited to the Brittish. People of English ancestry is still very common in both of the Carolinas, so their taste in cooking is still evident.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 07 May 14 - 11:36 AM

Sciencegeek:

cast iron cookware with lids to hold coals & wire hangers to either suspend over the fire or legs to sit in the coals.

The cast iron cooking implement(s) with legs is/are often referred to as "spiders". One of my favorite dishes (not a pie, though) is
Nebraska Spider Corn Bread, a moist, slightly sweet, eggy cornbread,
which I cook in a large cast-iron skillet in the oven. I serve it
with real maple syrup or honey.

I'm know that I've posted that recipe elsewhere in Mudcat. Search for "Spider", and I'm sure you'll find it listed in one of the corn bread threads.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Musket
Date: 07 May 14 - 11:52 AM

Whilst I am aware of the real Dutch oven...

Where I come from it also means doing something in bed that your partner will not thank you for...

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 May 14 - 12:30 PM

Nothing wrong with raw meat, bought from a good butcher.

My steak also must be rare, or blue. Anyone know where the term 'blue' came from?

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 07 May 14 - 12:42 PM

My steak also must be rare, or blue. Anyone know where the term 'blue' came from?

LOL... my father in law used to joke about how rare he liked his steak... just lead the cow over & I'll take what I want.

I've noticed that in beef, especially a thick cut, can have a dark, purplish hue before cooking. I suspect that it could be called blue... just as your veins look blue because the red blood cells are only bright red when bound to oxygen in the arteries. yeah.. the geek coming out...

aged beef has a very dark aspect to it... and lots of flavor.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 May 14 - 12:57 PM

"Anyone know where the term 'blue' came from?"

,.,..,

From "Yahoo answers"
--
How come 'rare' steak is called blue? When if its not cooked its red?

Best Answer: - The Unknown Chef answered 6 years ago:-
"I am a former chef and have cooked and eaten steaks cooked Blue ... the term is in reference to the blueish colour the underdone meat can have in the inside of the steak..."

.,,.

HTH

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 May 14 - 01:04 PM

PECAN PIE

Baked pie shell

Cream together 1/3 cup butter and 3/4 cup firmly packed brown sugar.

To this, beat in 3 eggs, one at a time.
Stir in:
1 cup light corn syrup
1 teaspoon pure vanilla extract
1 cup broken pecans
1/4 teaspoon salt
(optional, 1 tablespoon molasses)

Fill the pie shell and bake in a moderate oven, 375F for 1/2 hour.
(Optional) In the last stages, partially cover with roasted pecan halves.

375F = 191C
1 cup = 8 oz. = 237 mm.
1 tablespoon = 15 ml

In Canada, pecan halves are available in a 1kg bag at Costco Wholesale. In the usual store, pecans are expensive. Costco also has almonds in the large bags.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 May 14 - 01:11 PM

Musket, you're getting quite fart-obsessed! If a man did 'that' in my bed, I'd immediately strike a match, light the gas and burn his bottom off!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 May 14 - 01:12 PM

Thanks for the 'blue' answers.

I remember a restaurant in Austin, Texas, that has top quality dry-aged beef.
The hanging beef could be seen through a glass window. Some had a touch of mold.

Wonderful stuff!

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 May 14 - 01:21 PM

Ah, thank you, Eliza. In my sweet yoof-ful innocence, I had not the remotest idea of what he was on about!

Ugh, the nasty coarse fellow! There is no place for any such on this driven·snow·pure forum!

Avaunt and quit our sight, O thou Rudesby!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Musket
Date: 07 May 14 - 01:56 PM

The trick is to get her head under the duvet as you let rip, then there's no oxygen for her match...

Setting fire to them, now that's another subject. I kid you not, a whitewash wall behind a shop in Worksop had a scorched Tudor rose on it for years. Modesty prevents me naming the artist. Has to be a zippo. It blows other lighters and tapers out.

Back to the beef. We buy our fillet from the farm adjoining our paddocks. At 35 day, you see where the term blue comes from.....

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 May 14 - 03:56 PM

You're quite right Michael, he's a nasty, dirty, farty, old (?) man. He's not having ANY of my steak-and-kidney pie. Anyway he's up in the Far North a-chasing of the haggae.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Ed T
Date: 07 May 14 - 04:13 PM

So, where is the recipe for the tasty "Nebraska Spider Corn Bread" mentioned above?

Rhubarb....yuk!

It was one of those early spring plants that my Mom offered to us kids frequently for dessert , when I was a youngster.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 07 May 14 - 05:12 PM

Less of the old.....

Anyway, a Dutch Oven is a way of saying you are happy, contented and comfortable with your partner.

(I doubt Mrs Musket would hang around if I baked one but there you go ... )

Eliza. Stop agreeing with Michael. You'll give him delusions of grandeur. Put that on top of the cooking sherry and who knows where it will end?

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 May 14 - 05:51 PM

And you stop barking orders at Eliza, ya hear, Señor Rudissimo! Whence do you imagine that such denizens of Central Yobbosville as yourself derive any authority?

I might just have mentioned before how long it must be since any remnant of referential wit must have drained right away from desperate references to the inferior products of the environmental viñedos of Jerez de la Frontera.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Janie
Date: 07 May 14 - 08:26 PM

My mother was locally famous for her pecan pies. (West Virginia born and bred.) When I was younger it was one of my favorite holiday pies. She still bakes one for Thanksgiving and Christmas because my nephews and my son still love them. As I have gotten older intensely sweet things such as pecan pie don't appeal to me so much. Maybe a very thin sliver to take me back to my childhood.

Even though I had a large, lovely pecan tree in my backyard for a number of years after moving south, I have never made a pecan pie myself. Twas a big help to Mom, though, for me to gather and shell pecans to mail to her, as pecans have become very expensive over the years.

I've lost my touch with pie crust from lack of practice in the past 7-10 years. Ditto biscuits. For me, the crust makes the pie, regardless of the filling.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Janie
Date: 07 May 14 - 08:27 PM

The History of Pie in America

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,McMusket
Date: 08 May 14 - 02:36 AM

Actually, Sainsbury's Taste the Difference Amontillado is fairly quaffable but at a cooking price.

Performing a Dutch Oven and being able to laugh about it afterwards is a sign of comfortable contentment in a relationship.

The fact that you type such statements from the spare bedroom the following night is neither here nor there.....

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 08 May 14 - 04:13 AM

We've been married for many years, but my African husband would be absolutely disgusted and shocked if I even described to him a 'Dutch Oven'. Africans just don't do disgusting.
I love pecan nuts, but they are very expensive here in UK. Imagine having one's own tree! Fabulous.
Michael and Musket are two very naughty lads who need a good smacked bottom each. Stop this at once or Mrs Lovett will be making a very tasty pie indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Musket
Date: 08 May 14 - 04:30 AM

Notice that Michael? You are a naughty lad. Serves you right for wondering what a Dutch Oven is....

Here Eliza, don't bring Africa into it. It took me a while, when working in Nigeria, to get my head around the morning greeting in the hotel breakfast room, enquiring of the length....

Mrs Musket has never experienced a Dutch Oven, for what it is worth. She's never smacked my bottom for that matter. We do have a greyhound who can (and does) give you an indication of how it must feel to experience a Dutch Oven though..

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 May 14 - 05:43 AM

Oooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Elizaaaaaaaaaa

Promises promises

☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝☝

ɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷɷ

❣❣❣❣❣❣❣

❢❢❢❢❢

〠❤❤♥~M~♥❤❤〠

Subject: RE: BS: American Pie
From: Musket
Date: 08 May 14 - 05:56 AM

Michael. Are you losing your ability to type HTML or did you mean to have a line of raised fingers followed by a line of bums?

I ask merely as a denizen of Yobbsville Central. (The estate agent said it was a rather reassuringly expensive little village that the scum couldn't afford to live in (he really did, I had to jump in before Mrs Musket's mouth opened.)