Origins: Barbara Allen

Subject: Lyr Add: BONNY BARBARA ALLAN
From: Richie
Date: 10 May 15 - 01:39 AM


Bonny Barbara Allen --Buchan's MS, p. 90-96; from a handwritten copy commissioned by Child. Received from Harvard Library 5-10-15; transcribed by Richard Matteson with a little help from my friends.

p. 90--

1. In Scarlingtown where I was born[1],
There was a fair maid dwallin',
Whom I did choose to be my spouse,
And her name was Babie Allan.

2. But as I with some young men sat,
In the oak-tavern, dwallin',
A het dispute did there fa' out,
Streave[2] me an' Babie Allan.

3. Their tauk gaed roun' thro' a' the room,
This fair maid's praise a tellin';
In a' this place, there's nae sic face,
As bonny Babie Allan.

4. But I was shy, and naught said I,
For a' their boasts an' brawlin';
Thinks I you make ower much ado,
Concerning Babie Allan.

5. Sir James Whiteford then filled a glass,
O' gude brown liquor swallin';
Ordering the same aroun' to pass,
An' drink to Babie Allan.

p. 91--

6. Miss Morton sitting by my side,
while they this maid were extollin'
Said I to her, ye are mair fair,
Than that maid, Babie Allan.

7. These news then spread thro' a' the town,
O' thus my brags and brawlin';
And sin' that time I've naught but frowns,
Frae bonny Babie Allan.

8. O when I'd spent some time in vain,
My tender heart was failin';
I then took bed, in love's bands laid,
For bonny Babie Allan.

9. My servant man gaed thro' the town,
For this fair maid was dwallin';
Says, ye mawn speak wi' Captain Green,
Gin your name be Babie Allan.

10. O, is it for my tocher great?
Or for my boasted beauty?
Or is it for my comely face,
He sends sae aft about me?

11. It is not for your tocher great,
Nor for your boasted beauty,
But for the luve he bears to you,
He sends sae aft about you.

p. 92--

12. Then heally, heally gaed she aff,
To the room where he was lyin';
An' a' she said when she came there,
I think, young man, ye're dying.


13 I'm lying sick, an' very sick,
An' death is on me callin';
But ae kiss o' thee wou'd comfort me,
My bonny Barbie Allan.

14 If ye are sick, an' very sick
An' death is on you callin';
Ye might have sent for Peg Morton,
An' nae for Babie Allan.

15. O my dear, ye are too severe,
To ane whose heart is failin'
Although I spake to her in jest,
I mindit on Babie Allan.

16. When ye into the tavern sat,
Wi' a' the rest a drinkin';
Ye fill'd the cup an' drank about,
An' slighted Babie Allan.

17. Put in your hand at my bed stock,
An' there ye'll find a warran';
Ye'll find my watch, an' my gowd ring,
Gie that to Babie Allan.

p. 93--

18. Put in your hand at my bed head,
An' there ye'll find a warran';
Yell find my bible an pen-knife,
Gie that to Babie Allan.

19. O see ye not yon thirty ploughs,
Sae merrily's they're eering [3]
The rents o' them are coming in,
To tocher Babie Allan.

20. O see ye not yon nine meal-mills,
Sae merrily's they're shealin';
The rents o' them are coming in,
To tocher Babie Allan.

21. O see ye not yon seven ships,
Sae merrily's they're sailin';
The freights o' them are coming in,
To tocher Babie Allan.

22. Win[4] up, win up, young man, she said,
Gae to the kirk an' marry;
He turned about an' gae a sigh,
I hinna time to tarry.

23. Then turn'd his white face to the wa',
Wi' dreadfu' pangs were failin'
Says, Fare ye well, my kinsfolk a',
Be kind to Babie Allan.

p. 94--

24. Then out it spake his mother dear,
As she was a sorry woman;
Says, wae be to your comely face,
Hard hearted Babie Allan.

25. She wasna' twa miles frae the town,
Till she heard the dead bells knellin';
An' ilka stroke the dead bells gae,
Unworthy Babie Allan.

26. When she did there return again,
Where her parents dear were dwallin';
Then every ane began to spier,
The news at Babie Allan.

27. Out it spake her father dear,
Says, Babie will ye take him?
Its vain to spier, my father dear,
When the bells are on him ringin'.

28. Out it spake her brother dear,
Says Babie, will ye take him?
Its vain to speir, my brother dear,
When's corpse are at the liftin'.

29. As I went out to take the air,
She spied his corpse a comin';
Set down the corpse, the maid she said,
That I may look upon him.

p. 95--

30. When the corpse they were set down,
Her face began a swallin';
An' when she look'd the corpse upon,
Right pale grew Babie Allan.

31. In the church-yard he was interr'd,
Wi' muckle grief an' wailin';
The girls a' then began to say,
Gae drown her, Babie Allan.

32. Then out it spake Sir James Whiteford,
While on the green was standin';
I wou'd fain see the face that's here,
Dare trouble Babie Allan.

33. Then he has taen her by the hand,
Says, Dear, leave off your weepin';
If ye will gang alang wi' me,
Ye'll hae my heart a-keepin'.

34. Ye shall hae ha's[5], ye shall hae bowers,
An' gold ye'se hae a plenty;
A' that's mine love, shall be thine,
In the town o' Ayr, right dainty.

35. I gie you thanks, ye courteous knight,
For this my praises tellin';
But there is nae ae man alive,
Can comfort Babie Allan.

p. 96--

36. This fair maid's dane her hame,
Wi' muckle grief an' sorrow,
Sin my luve's died for me to-night,
I'll die for him tomorrow.

37. O mother, mother make my bed,
Ye'll make it lang an' narrow;
There is nae ane in James' steed,
Shall ever be my marrow.

38 He mother she did make her bed,
And made it lang an' narrow;
And her luve died for her that night,
She died for him ere morrow.

39. When Sir James Whiteford heard the news,
His heart was sair an' swallin';
Says Captain Green's been a' the cause,
O' the ruin of Babie Allan.

40. She was a girl baith meek and mild,
Her features worth the tellin';
There's nae a flower that buds in May,
Sae fair as Babie Allan.

41. But Captain Green, wi' haughty words,
His haughty boasts an brawlin';
Was basely slain by his ain sword,
An' nae by Babie Allan.

Comments and footnotes: Title should be "Babie Allan." Sometimes it's "frae" sometimes it's 'for". Sometimes it's "an' " and sometimes its "and".
Stanza 2 "het dispute" = "hot dispute";

1. "born" may be "bound" in MS
2. "Between," not sure of the literal translation of "Streave" or possibly spelled "Shreave" found in MS is.
3. "eering," an archaic word for ploughing and occurs in the blackletter broadside version of The Elfin Knight v12 'For thou must eare it with thy horn'[Gardham]
4. Win= Get
5. Assume it's "has" for may be written "ha's" in MS for "halls"

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Richie
Date: 10 May 15 - 12:35 AM

Hi,

I received a copy of Buchan's MS from the Harvard Library and I'll be posting it soon. It's a bit hard to read the handwriting so if anyone want to have a go at it, I'll email a copy of the MS which is 7 pages on 4 scans.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Richie
Date: 09 May 15 - 09:18 PM

Ty Lighter,

There are a number of versions that have this opening. Sometimes the second line in the US is "That's where I got my learnin'," instead of "dwellin'."

Some versions from the British Isles, for example, Granger's 1906, "Barbara Hellen" and Kidson's 1891, "Barbara Allen" (Wardhill), both have Scotland in the first two lines.

The second stanza begins, "I courted her for . . . " There are an estimated two dozen versions with this opening. Sometimes it's ,"in London City" Gordon/Sandburg 1927 or Wilkinson's has "scornful town."

This is a unique variant.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Lighter
Date: 09 May 15 - 06:55 PM

As Anne Neilson indicates, some texts place the action in Scotland. One more is that printed in John Harrington Cox's "Folk Songs of the South" (coll. in Va. in 1916), which begins,

"In Scotland I was bred and born."

Cox follows this up with "In London was my dwelling."

Such opening lines might easily have led Pepys casually to describe the song he heard as "Scotch." They would certainly fit well with a song sung on the London stage. But of course we don't know whether such lines are 250-year-old survivals or later developments. Since only two lines are involved, either is possible.

"Scotland" might easily have become "Scarlet Town"; but unfortunately the reverse might be the case as well.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Richie
Date: 09 May 15 - 06:18 PM

Hi,

The half dozen or so versions from the US/Canada with the "It fell about a Martinmas time" opening (Child A) are either taken from the 1844 Forget-Me-Not Songster version or are based on an earlier, possibly traditional, ballad which the Songster appropriated. The key stanza is the 'seven ships' stanza which is also traditional (C.K. Sharpe reference). An argument, besides Sharpe, that the songster was printed from tradition is the Davis R version, which begins like Child and has the "seven ships" stanza. Davis R has been dated through the family as coming "from Ireland in either 1798 or 1800." This predates the FMN Songster by about 50 years. As mentioned in the last post, this "Songster" version is found in Flanders A-C, Davis O and R, as well as at least two from Canada: Mackenzie A and Fauset B.

Additionally there are versions with a fall setting that don't have the "It fell about a Martinmas time" opening. The following is an excerpt from Riley's thesis in 1957:

There are, besides these texts which are obviously from printed versions, just six texts which begin with the autumn setting. Three of these are from North Carolina (Brown Z, AA, DD), two from Virginia. (Davis G, BB), and one from Georgia (Morris A). These texts show some relationship with other traditional texts which have a spring setting. Three of these (Brown Z, AA, and Davis G) are obviously related texts, Brown Z begins.

It was the fall season of the year
The yellow leaves Were falling.
Sweet William he was taken sick
For the love of Barbara Ellen.

The name is "Barbara Allan" in Davis G.

All three texts have Barbara, a reproach, and William's justification is in Davis G and Brown AA. In Davis G the insult occurs in "yonders town," and in Brown A it is "last Tuesday night." Both phrases occur in other texts. The curtain around the bed is retained from Ramsay's or is superimposed. Barbara weeps when she sees the corpse. In Brown Z and AA, Barbara. asks her rather to dig her grave and all end with the rose-brier motif.

Brown DD is described by Hudson as "a full normal text with autumn setting." It has thirteen stanzas and the girl is "Barbara Ellen." The remaining text (Davis BB) has some interesting variations but it is obviously contaminated by Percy's "English" version. It begins:

'Twas late-lie, late-lie in the fall,
'Twas when the leaves were dying,
That Johnny from the back countree
Fall in love with Barbara Allen.

And oh, he hired a little boy
To run for him an errand,
To run for him to strawberry town
To fetch him Barbara Allen.

I'll be looking at some other standard openings which are distinct.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Richie
Date: 09 May 15 - 06:16 PM

Hi Steve,

I've read the comments in the other thread, and there is no way we can know definitively about the 1666 version. However, it's possible that it could be similar to the 1740 "Scotch" version by Ramsey/Oswald. We will never know, I'm aware of both positions. Also Child gives it some antiquity by placing it before the 1690 broadside as his A version.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 May 15 - 05:06 PM

Hi Richie,
I was at a Traditional Song Forum meeting in Newcastle today and Vic Gammon, retired professor of the Newcastle University Folk Degree, declared an interest in completing a study on Barbara Allen. I told him about your work

'We can assume by Pepys, however, that Mrs. Knipp's Scotch version "Barbary Allen" could be part of this group.' Richie, if you don't believe what we've told you about the meaning of 'Scotch' to Londoners in earlier centuries, I'll try to find the references. it might have come from Chappell.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Richie
Date: 09 May 15 - 09:28 AM

Hi,

I'll be making some conclusions, after our brief discussion of Barbara Allen. According to Ed Cray who studied all the extant print versions and traditional versions up in the 1960s:

Conjecturally, the oldest texts are those which begin: "It fell about a Martinmas time /When the green leaves were a- fallin'." These "Martinmas" versions, more specifically the traditional Scottish variants represented by Child C, may contain a legacy motif where in the dying lover leaves Barbara a series of gifts, including a bowl of his heart's blood.

The "It fell about a Martinmas time" versions are represented by Child A and Child C. These are the "Scotch" versions, Child A was published in 1740, Child C was taken from tradition c. 1823 by Motherwell. We can assume by Pepys, however, that Mrs. Knipp's Scotch version "Barbary Allen" could be part of this group and bring the date to 1666. These versions include the gifts stanzas, found in traditional Child C and according to C.K. Sharpe, the gifts stanzas are traditional to the ballad and were found in Annadale.

The important stanza that establishes Barbra's motive for rejecting her dying love is part of the tradition of Child A:

5. O dinna ye mind young man, said she,
When ye was in the tavern a drinking,
That ye made the healths gae round and round,
And slighted Barbara Allan.

and not found in the broadside, Child B. We know that Child A is rarely found in tradition and the "It fell about a Martinmas time" is found in a few versions in the US and others have a fall setting - as does Child C which has the derivative, "Lammas". Martinmas would be Nov. 11 and represents the fall or harvest.

We know Child B, the English broadside, predates the 1740 version by at least 50 years. It begins with "In Scarlet Town" which is also "In Reading Town" and according to Chappell "Scarlet" was derived from the earlier "Carlisle" town (although he offers no proof). Percy's "English" version offers a name for the dying love, Sir John Graeme (also Graham) and an additional ending stanza.

Neither Child A or B have the rose/briar ending, or use the name 'Sweet William' or William/Willie for the dying love. It is likely that these stanzas and the name Sweet William were adapted from Child 74, which likely originated in the late 1500s.

I will make several posts examining the opening stanzas and exploring different versions. In the US/Canada the ballad has been traced to the 1700s through family lines and was printed circa 1830. Several of the "Martimas" opening versions can be traced to The Forget-Me-Not Songster dated c. 1844 (Flanders A and B; Mackenzie A for example) and are clearly taken from print.

Richie

Subject: Lyr Add: BARBERY ELLEN
From: Richie
Date: 08 May 15 - 01:21 AM

Hi,

Steve- You are right. As far as I know the family knew at least three versions (Frank Proffitt and Nathan Hicks only gave the opening stanza to the Brown Collection- they resemble version 3 textually), 1) an archaic version known by Sam Harmon, 2) the Nora Hicks/Jane Hicks Gentry (collected by Sharp- melody only, in 1916 and the text has been taken from her daughter Maud Long in 1947) version which begins, "So early, early in the spring," and 3) the complete text which I posted above sung by Harmon/Presnell.

Lena Harmon who sang the version I posted also knew the archaic version. This version was passed by Sam Harmon to three sources, so the ballad is fairly accurate. Similar versions were published by Carl Sandburg (Gordon MS) and Edith Fowke (LaRena Clark from Ontario). Lena knew this was the old family version which would have been passed by Council Harmon to Sam before Sam moved to Cades Cove, TN where Mellinger Henry collected it around 1929 from Sam's daughter. I'll now post that version:

B. "Barbery Ellen." Collected by Geneva Anderson from Mrs. Sam Harmon, of Varnel, Georgia, formerly of Cade's Cove, Blount County, Tennessee in 1931. She learned it from her husband, Sam Harmon. This would be an old family version possibly dating back to the late 1600s in Virginia.

1. Away down South where I came from
Is where I got my learning.
I fell in love with a pretty little miss,
And her name is Barbery Ellen.

2. I courted her for seven years,
And asked her if she would marry.
With a bowed down head and a sweet little smile,
She never made no answer.

3. Early, late, along in the spring,
When the red roses were blooming,
A young man on his death bed lay
For the love of Barbery Ellen.

4. He sent his servant down to town
To a place where she was dwelling:
"My master is love-sick and sent for you,
If your name is Barbery Ellen."

5. She slightly talked and slowly walked
She slowly went unto him.
"Young man, young man, I hear you were sick,
For the love of Barbery Ellen."

6. "Yes, I am sick, and very sick
And with me death is dwelling
And none the better will I be,
Till I get Barbery Ellen."

7. "Yes, yes you are sick, and very sick,
And with you death is dwelling,
But none the better will you be
While my name is Barbery Ellen.

8. "Don't you remember the other day
When we were all drinking,
You passed the glass [to] the ladies all around,
But you slighted Barbery Ellen?"

9. "Yes, I remember the other day,
When we were all drinking:
I passed the glass to the ladies all around,
But all for Barbery Ellen."

10. He turned his pale face to the wall,
His back he turned towards them:
"Adieu, adieu, to all this world,
Be kind to Barbery Ellen."

11. She had not ridden five miles from town,
Till she heard the death bells ringing,
And every stroke, they seemed to say:
"Hard-hearted Barbery Ellen."

12. She looked to the east, she looked to the west,
She saw the pale corpse coming:
"O, lay him down, O lay him down,
And let me look upon him."

13. The more she looked, the worse she got
Till she burst out crying:
"Young man, young man, you died for me today,
I will die for you tomorrow."

14. They buried Sweet Willie in one churchyard,
And Barbery in the other,
And out of Barbery's breast sprang a red, red rose,
And out of his a brier.

15. They grew and grew to such a length of height,
Till they could not grow no higher;
And there they tied in a true-lover's knot
And the rose around the brier.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 15 - 03:36 PM

" It's such a pity for us he was such a deceiver. "
Sorry to interrupt - not really interested in paper chases, but.....
The Buchan controversy has never been confirmed one way or another and it is a little disingenuous to suggest that such a divided issue had.
As far as Rankin's capabilities, we've recorded singers whose friends and neighbours weren't even aware they sang - one was a 'dancer' who gave us seventy songs - "Did Mikey now songs..." was a regular response.
As far as I know, the question of Rankin's abilities as a song-maker is equally a mystery.
The Buchan question remains as big a mystery as whether the b#roadside came before the song, or vise-versa - thought there are those who seem to consider they know something the rest of us don't.
Back to your muttons gentlemen.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 May 15 - 03:19 PM

My point really was that this singular ballad is so popular that the likelihood of hearing lots of different versions in the Harmon family is very likely. Not all source singers just learn and pass on what they have heard. The more creative ones will try to improve and if as in this case there are many versions to choose from a creative singer will mix and match.

Buchan didn't just piece together, he created a lot. It's such a pity for us he was such a deceiver. Some of his creations are pretty good and went into oral tradition almost immediately. His poetry is pretty poor stuff but he knew very well all the characteristics of a good ballad. His oft-quoted fall guy, Jamie Rankin, was not capable of creating according to people who knew him. No doubt some of the material sent to him was spurious, but the vast bulk of it is of his own re-creating and creating.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Richie
Date: 07 May 15 - 11:19 AM

Hi,

Jim: My point being -not that publishers in the US were worried about it at this time (c1845)-- that you wouldn't want to publish the exact same text from another print version if you have additional material you could add. It would give the printer a unique version that is an improvement over already printed versions.

Since Charles Kirkpatrick Sharpe indicated that the "ships" stanza was traditional in Annandale as well as the "gifts" or "bequeaths" stanzas- the ships stanza being included in the FMN Songster would have come from tradition. It is found in other traditional versions in the US that clearly are not based on the FMN Songster.

Added to (or part of) the ballad we have:

1) ships gift stanza (also Child C from Motherwell, where it appears):
'Or will ye go to the river-side,
To see my boats a rowing?'
2) blood letting stanza (bowl of blood) found traditionally in many Irish versions -as well as Greig/Keith "Last Leaves- A" (and other English/Scottish versions) - and some US/Canada versions.
3) other gifts stanzas (gold watch etc. which culminate in Buchan's excessive 41 stanza version- which I assume he pieced together from traditional versions which usually only have one stanza of gifts.

Steve: I realize that balance is a normal part of a ballad and makes the ballad easier to remember. It's just rarely found in tradition without missing stanzas. Both women that sang the ballad come from an oral tradition method and many members of that family could not read or write. This version (posted above) came from her father, a Baptist preacher.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Lighter
Date: 07 May 15 - 09:34 AM

> they could just as easily have come from other ballads printed in FMNS.

Also true.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 May 15 - 08:12 AM

Richie,
First of all, yes an excellent version. No doubt someone in the family was talented in making a good version. I concur with your use of the word 'balanced' in terms of pairs of stanzas but don't read too much into this, that method is one of the simplest (and effective) ways of polishing/extending a ballad. I have got Burton. However off the top of my head all of these stanzas here are either of the common stock or derived therefrom.

The extra stanzas in the FMNS version have all come from other ballads (as I stated earlier very much in the style of Peter Buchan) and this led me to think that it had been put together in Scotland, but on reflection it could have been composed anywhere. The extra stanzas could have come from oral tradition as you suggest, but as they come from different ballads, it's more likely they were concocted from an anthology. I haven't checked but they could just as easily have come from other ballads printed in FMNS.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Lighter
Date: 07 May 15 - 07:38 AM

> As an editor wouldn't you try to find other [oral] versions in order to add stanzas?

Probably not. Songsters were produced for cash, not scholarship or even for the serious collection of orally transmitted songs.

Apart from that of a few academics, there was little 19th century interest in oral tradition as an object of general study.

Baring-Gould was the leading pioneer in taking folk songs seriously, but even he had little respect for the verbal integrity of what he collected or published.

Were an editor already familiar with an additional stanza, he might well have included it. But going out of his way to find "traditional" lyrics? Extremely unlikely.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Jim Brown
Date: 07 May 15 - 03:38 AM

> The first is from Lena Harmon and Hattie Presnell

Hi, Richie. Yes, it's a beautiful version. Up there with the best. I've never seen what Lena Harmon sang before, so I'm grateful to you for posting it, but I recognized her name because I found interesting her comments on what the ballad meant to her, which I came across in Christine A. Cartwright's article "'Barbara Allen': Love and Death in an Anglo-American Narrative Folksong" -- quoted there from Thomas Burton's book "Some Ballad Folks", so if you know Thomas Burton, this will not be news to you.

There's probably more in the book, but from what Cartwright quotes, it looks as if Lena Harmon puts the blame pretty firmly on Barbara, who "caused a lot of this by her pride and stubbornness" because "she didn't think that she loved this boy". But she concludes: "I think it shows that love is stronger than death," which seems to nicely sum up the paradoxically satisfying effect of adding the true lovers' stanza about the rose and briar stanza at the end of a ballad that on the surface seems to be about refusal of love.

Subject: Lyr Add: BARBARA ALLAN
From: Richie
Date: 06 May 15 - 09:56 PM

Hi,

I'm now going to add representative traditional ballads which I believe point to the ur-ballad or in this case ballads- since there are several different openings and endings.

The first is from Lena Harmon and Hattie Presnell and is part of what I believe is the evolution of Child B and tells the complete story. Comments as always are welcome.

Barbara Allen - sung by Lena Harmon and Hattie Presnell on March 21, 1969, Beech Mountain North Carolina. Collected by my friend Thomas Burton, of Tennessee.

1. In Scarlet town where I was born,
There was a fair maid dwellin'
Made every youth cry "Well a-way,"
Her name was Barbara Allen.

2. All in the merry months of May,
When the green buds they were swellin',
Sweet William came from the western states,
And courted Barbara Allen.

3. Then in the lovely month of June,
When all things they were bloomin',
Sweet William on his deathbed lay
For the love of Barbara Allen.

4. He sent his servant to the town
Where Barbara was a-dwellin';
"My master's sick, and he sends for you
If your name be Barbara Allen."

5. "For death is printed on his face
And o'er his heart is stealin';
Oh, come away to comfort him,
Oh, lovely Barbara Allen."

6. So slow, so slowly she got up,
And slowly she came nigh him;
And all she said when she got there,
"Young man, I think you're dyin'."

7. "Oh, yes, I'm sick and very sick,
And death is on me dwellin';
No better, no better I never will be
If I can't have Barbara Allen."

8. "Oh, yes, you're sick and very sick,
And death is on you dwellin';
No better, no better you never will be
For you can't have Barbara Allen."

9. "Oh, don't you remember in yonders town,
In yonders tavern a-drinkin'?
You drank a health to the ladies around
And slighted Barbara Allen."

10. "Oh, yes, I remember in yonders town,
In yonders tavern a-drinkin';
I drank a health to the ladies around,
My heart to Barbara Allen."

11. He turned his face unto the wall;
He turned his back upon her,
"Adieu, adieu to all my friends;
Be kind to Barbara Allen."

12. As she was walkin' through the field,
She beard the bells a-ringin';
They rang so loud they seemed to say,
"Unworthy Barbara Allen."

13. As she was walkin' through the town,
She heard the birds a-singin';
They rang so clear they seemed to say,
"Hardhearted Barbara Allen."

14. She looked to the east, she looked to the west;
She saw the corpse a-comin',
"Lay down, lay down the corpse," she said,
"That I may look upon him."

15. The more she looked, the more she moaned;
She fell on the ground a-cryin',
"Oh, pick me up and carry me home
For I feel like I am dyin'."

16. "Oh, Mother, oh, Mother, go make my bed;
Go make it long and narrow.
Sweet William died for me today;
I'll die for him tomorrow."

17. "Oh, Father, oh, Father, go dig my grave;
Go dig it long and narrow."
Sweet William died for true, true love,
And I will die from sorrow."

18. They buried her in the old churchyard,
And he was buried nigh her.
On William's grave grew a red, red rose;
On Barbara's grew a green briar.

19. They grew to the top of the old church wall;
They could not grow any higher.
They linked and twined in a true love's knot,
And the rose grew around the briar.

This version of the ballad is very well balanced and complete. Many of the representative lexicons are included (Fair maid dwellin'/western states/o'er his heart is stealin'/nigh him/ etc). I say evolution because it has elements that have evolved through time. The name, "Sweet William," for example, is taken (in my opinion) from Child 74 along with the rode/briar ending. The sick stanza ("yes, I'm sick") and the response ("yes, you're sick")- perfectly balanced. The motive for her rejecting him (slighting her at the tavern) and his defense (gave a health to the ladies, but his love to Barbara Allen)- again balanced. The mother making the bed and the father digging the grave- balanced. The two rose/briar stanzas- balanced. In my opinion, this is an example of an excellent version of the ballad.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Richie
Date: 06 May 15 - 09:49 PM

Hi,

Steve-- you point to the Forget-Me-Not-Songster as having some of those elements (and I agree). Isn't it possible that instead of the print version having an influence that the editor took traditional elements and added them to the Forget-me-Not Songster to give it additional stanzas? The "ships" stanza was already mentioned by Sharpe Before it was incorporated as a stanza. The letter writing could also be traditional -- added to the Forget-Me-Not.

Let's not forget the influence that tradition has had on print. As an editor wouldn't you try to find other versions in order to add stanzas? Just as Percy added the "Farewell, she sayd, ye virgins all," stanza which I believe is traditional from another source.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 May 15 - 06:18 PM

Jim
Sorry I didn't spot it. It's getting late. You actually mention Oswald, the musical equivalent of Ramsay.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 May 15 - 06:16 PM

Jim 3.37. Yes you have a point, Jim. I think there was a musical equivalent of Ramsay that published the tunes which may have had some influence, but it does suggest to me that the standard song was well-known in polite circles perhaps before Ramsay's printing.

Richie, the letter writing is in the Forget-me-not Songster version which has lots of extra verses. When these people claim that their family version goes back several centuries they are not factoring in the likelihood of influence from other versions, some from more recent print like the FMNS version, especially with such a widespread popular ballad as this.

'That's where I got my learning' of course is an echo of 'where I was bound'

Jim, you may well be right about it starting out as a burlesque. I certainly think that's how pieces like Lord Lovell and George Collins started out. However these ballads slipped easily in and out of comedy and tragedy. One man's tragedy is another man's comedy

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Jim Brown
Date: 06 May 15 - 05:23 PM

>the early versions show other hallmarks of burlesque

Is it possible, then, that the song actually started out as a burlesque, the sort of thing people like Pepys and his friends could smile at, and then became more serious as it evolved -- perhaps starting with Ramsay's version and Oswald's solemn tune?

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Richie
Date: 06 May 15 - 04:17 PM

Here are some other examples. It's better to see the second stanza also:

Sandburg 1927:

1 In London City where I once did dwell,
there's where I got my learning,
I fell in love with a pretty young girl,
her name was Barbra Allen.

2 I courted her six months or more.
Was about to gain her favor;
'Oh wait! oh wait, oh wait!' she said.
'Some young man's gained my favor.'

LaRena Clark Ontario

1. In London city where I was born,
There was a fair maid dwelling,
And she had every youthful grace;
Her name was Barb'ra Allen.

2. "I courted her for four long years;
She swore she would not have me.
Then straightway home as I could go,
And like unto a-dying."

Anderson F. Hard-hearted Barbery Allen. Mrs Flora Havens of Binfield, Blount County has long been familiar with this song.

1. Away low down in London town,
In which three maids were dwelling.
There was but one I call my own,
And that was Barbery Allen.

2. I courted her for seven long years
She said she would not have me,
Poor Willie went home and took sick
And there he lay a-dying."

I'm just wondering if these versions have a print analogue and what the earliest traditional or print example is. They sometimes have Willie write her a letter, which the servant takes.

I'm stuck somewhere in Tennessee, putting versions on my site (Cambiaire, McDowell, Crabtree, Anderson etc.). Hopefully I'll get to another state soon!!!

TY,

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Richie
Date: 06 May 15 - 01:33 PM

Hi,

I just put Sam Harmon's version (North Carolina then Tennessee) on my site. Does anyone know any other versions beginning (same second line):

In Scarlet Town where I did dwell,
That's where I got my learning,
A maiden lived that I knew well,
Her name was Barbara Allen.

Away down South where I came from
Is where I got my learning.
I fell in love with a pretty little miss,
And her name is Barbery Ellen. [Sam Harmon c. 1929]

Richie

Subject: Lyr Add: BARBARA ALLAN
From: Richie
Date: 06 May 15 - 12:04 PM

Hi,

On a lighter note (not you Lighter- haha) from Eastern Tennessee and Western Virginia Mountain Ballads- Cambiaire, 1934. He says:

"* This ballad must have a very old origin. and its story was known perhaps in prehistoric times."

Haha- "prehistoric times" makes me think of a cave man swinging his spear and singing, "All in the merry month of May. . ."

His version, likely taken from one of his students, manages to combine both the Percy ending "Farewell" and the rose-briar:


35. BARBARA ALLEN- Cambiaire, 1934

IN the Scarlet Town here I was born,
There was a fair maid dwelling,
And every youth cried, "Well a-day!"
Her name was Barbara Allen.

All in the merry month of May,
When the green buds were a-swelling,
Poor William on his deathbed lay,
For the love of Barbara Allen.

He sent his man unto her then,
To the town that she did dwell in,
Says: "You must come to my master,
If your name be Barbara Allen.

For death is painted on his face,
And o'er his heart is stealing,
Then haste away to comfort him,
Oh, lovely Barbara Allen."

"Though death he painted on his face,
And o'er his heart is stealing,
Yet, little the better will he be
If I am Barbara Allen."

But slowly, slowly she came up,
And slowly she came nigh him,
And all she said when thus she came,
''Young man, I think you're dying."

He turned his face unto her straight,
With deathly sorrow, sighing,
"Oh, pretty maid, come pity me,
I'm on my deathbed lying."

He turned his face unto the wall,
And death was with him dealing,
"Adieu, adieu, my clear friends all,
Adieu to Barbara Allen."

As she was walking o'er the fields,
She heard the death bell knelling,
And every stroke it seemed to say,
" Unworthy Barbara Allen."

She turned her body round about,
And spied the corpse a-coming,
"Lay down, lay down the corpse," she cried,
"That I may look upon it"

With scornful eyes she looked down,
Her cheeks with laughter swelling,
And all her friends cried, "Out away,
Unworthy Barbara Allen."

As on her deathbed she did lay,
Her heart was stricken with sorrow,
" Oh, mother, mother, make my bed,
For I shall die to-morrow."

"Hard-hearted creature, him to slight,
Who loved me so dearly,
Oh, that I'd been more kind to him,
When he was alive and near me."

She, on her deathbed as she lay,
Begged to be buried by him,
And so repented of the day,
That she e'er did deny him.

"Farewell," she said, "ye virgins all,
And shun the fault I fell in,
Henceforth take warning by the fall,
Of cruel Barbara Allen'"

They buried poor William in the church-yard,
And Barbara Allen by him,
Out of his grave sprang a red rose,
And out of hers a brier.

They grew till they grew to the church-house top,
And they could not grow any higher,
They locked and they tied in a true lover's knot.
And a rose hung on the brier.*

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Jim Brown
Date: 06 May 15 - 03:37 AM

> Having been published earlier in the century by Ramsay and then anthologised to death …

Yes, by the time the parody was published in 1775, Ramsay's version would have appeared in several more editions of the TTM, plus Herd and Percy and maybe others. But in 1752, when we are told the parody was written, would it have been in anything except the 1740 and 1750 editions of TTM, (plus perhaps Irish and American editions)? Not to mention that BA was only one among a good few hundred songs in TTM, and perhaps not the most obviously attractive to readers looking for the new songs that Ramsay seems to make the main selling point of the book.

On the other hand, I don't think the parody is necessarily to be taken as evidence that the Ramsay version was widely known in Scotland in 1752. It looks to me like the kind of thing that wouldn't have been particularly meaningful beyond the narrow circle of those directly affected by the event it describes, so for it to be effective as a parody when first written it could have been enough for BA to be well known among the author's fellow officers.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Richie
Date: 05 May 15 - 07:57 PM

Steve,

I'm not sure (as you said) if the Harvard Library has a copy of Buchan's 41 stanza version (they are checking 2 folio boxes). How can I get a copy from the British Library? It's also in Motherwell's MS.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 May 15 - 06:58 PM

Having been published earlier in the century by Ramsay and then anthologised to death it would have been very familiar to all of the well-heeled Scottish class later in the century. Thanks for this.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Jim Brown
Date: 05 May 15 - 06:43 PM

>If it's only 4 stanzas could you post it for us please?

Gladly, Steve. The author is identified as Sir Robert Murray Keith, 1732-1795. According to the author of the annotation (William Stenhouse, I think), it was written in 1752, when Keith was an officer in a regiment of foot raised in Scotland for the Dutch service, and was published in "a collection entitled " The Caledoniad," London, 1775, 3 vols. 12mo; which contains several other poems by the same hand, and written about the same time." I'm sure the parody would only work for people who knew the ballad intimately – I wonder if BA was a favourite in the officers' mess. Anyway here it is, as given in the 1839 annotated SMM:


A Paraphrase of the first four verses of Barbara Allan ; made on Lord D[ouglas]'s regiment receiving orders to march from Maestrecht to Sas van Ghent, in Dutch Flanders. By Sir R—t M—y K—h.

It fell about the month of June,
Or in the month of July,
That Jan de Back,* in the Low Countrie,
Did use us very cruelly.

A letter by the post he sent
With news that was right dreary,
That we must march to Sas van Ghent,
Of which we'll soon be weary.

Rise up, Rise up, young men," he said,
" 'Tis time that ye were stepping ;
" Of the bad air be not afraid,
" Take aye the t'other chappin.

" For dinna ye mind as well as me,
" Breda, where ye were lying ;
" The lads that drank came off Scot free,
" When the sober folk lay dying ?"

* Secretary at War.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Lighter
Date: 05 May 15 - 05:40 PM

Thanks, Steve.

I seem to recall reading long, long ago that American minstrels in their with their blackface and exaggerated dialect would adopt a very formal "recital" style when singing, again for the humor of incongruity.

Unfortunately I can't absolutely confirm this. It would be somewhat comparable what you say about the English music-halls, however.

An unfortunate current example is the rugby version of "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot," sung verbatim but accompanied with gestures that create a bawdy double-entendre where none exists in the words.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 May 15 - 04:20 PM

Absolutely, Jon. A burlesque wouldn't necessarily require that or mean that the model was popular. You could burlesque something very obscure and the burlesque would still work because much of it lies in the performance, although in many cases it is still taking the micky out of a model. In some cases the burlesque would have been taking a rise out of a genre rather than an individual work. For quite sophisticated artistes like Cowell traditional ballads were prime targets with their sentimentality, simple structure and cartoon-like narratives. Some were delivered in exaggerated dialect and charicature but others were delivered almost verbatim as the model albeit with an incongruous style. Hence the fast jolly tunes for the likes of Lord Lovell and Billy Taylor. Read Cowell's song book and you wonder where the enormous popularity came from but much of it was in the delivery.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Lighter
Date: 05 May 15 - 03:09 PM

> there is a four-stanza military parody of BA from 1752

A parody usually implies the audience's expected familiarity with the original.

That makes the parody better evidence for the popularity of the original in the mid-18th Century than would, say, another broadside printing.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Richie
Date: 05 May 15 - 02:33 PM

Hi,

Anne- Thanks for posting the version.

Jim Brown- The 1855 parody is that "Barbara Allan THE CRUEL." I think an excellent point you made is:

"are not actually bequests left by the dying lover like the gold watch, tears, blood, etc., but promises of the wealth that Barbara could share in if she would accept him."

I think this is accurate, also I think "the gifts" are part of tradition and they should be part of the ur-ballad, which at some point I'll construct using parts of different versions. I'm still sifting through my US/Canada/Jamaica versions, but need more time to reach any conclusions.

Steve- thanks for the Madden version. Is this one of the first broadside (British Isles) with the rose-briar ending?

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 May 15 - 01:12 PM

My 1763 edition of TTM has the same version as in my reprint of SMM with just a few minor alterations to spelling, e.g. Graham/Graeme. It's at Vol 1 p230 but I can't see a parody. I don't think it's in my edition. If it's only 4 stanzas could you post it for us please?

Regarding the line
It fell about the Martinmas tide, Scott made good use of it in his 'Jamie Telfer'.

Of course 'Lammas' soon translates into 'Martinmas' as the doughty Douglas would know.

Subject: Lyr Add: BARBARA ALLAN
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 May 15 - 12:37 PM

Here is the promised version. I'd certainly like your thoughts on this one, Richie.

Barbara Allen.

In Reading town, where I was born,
A fair maid there was dwelling.
I pick'd her out to be my wife,
Her name was Barbara Allen.

It was in the month of merry May,
When green leaves they were springing
A young man on a sick bed lay,
For the sake of Barbara Allen.

He sent to her a servant man
To the place where she was dwelling,
Saying, fair maid, to my master come,
If your name be Barbara Allen.

So slowly, so slowly she walk'd on,
So slowly she got to him,
And when she got to his bed-side,
Young man, she said, you're dying,

Nothing but death is painted in your face
All joys are flown from thee,
I cannot save thee from the grave,
So farewell, my dear Johnny,

He turn'd his face unto the wall,
And turned his face from her,
And as he turned those words he said,
Hard hearted Barbara Allen.

Don't you remember the other day,
You in the ale-house was drinking,
Where every lad drank to his lass
You slighted Barbara Allen.

As she was walking in the fields
she heard the bells a ringing,
And as they rang they seem'd to say
"Hard hearted Barbara Allen.

As she was walking up the town
She saw the corpse a coming;
You little hearts come set him down,
And let me look upon him,

The more she look'd the more she laugh'd
The farther she got from him,
Until all her friends cried, Fie! for shame,
Hard hearted Barbara Aleen.

Then when she came unto the grave
She bursted out a crying,
I wish I had more kinder been
When I was nearer to him.

Twas he that died on one good day,
And she died on the morrow;
And Johnny Groves he died for love,
Barbara Allen died for sorrow.

The one was buried in the chancel top,
The other in the choir;
On Johnny Groves there grows a rose,
On Barbara Allen a brier.

The brier it growed to the chancel top,
Until it could grow no higher,
And there it met in a true lover's knot,
For thousands to admire.

Madden Collection 5095. As I said it has no imprint and looks to be second half of the 19thc. It could though easily be a copy of something much earlier. When I suggested it could be the original of the Scots version and the 19thc well-known broadside, equally it could be a pastiche of those 2. It certainly reads as being very folky and may have been subject to oral tradition as opposed to the earlier print versions.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Jim Brown
Date: 05 May 15 - 12:26 PM

> the bequests are not part of the print versions (except for the "seven ships" stanza).

But maybe a case of the exception that proves the rule. As far as I can see, the seven ships in the Forget-Me-Not Songster version and the similar stanza in Child C are not actually bequests left by the dying lover like the gold watch, tears, blood, etc., but promises of the wealth that Barbara could share in if she would accept him. The Annandale versions mentioned by C.K. Sharpe sound the same: "… containing numerous magnificent offers from the lover to his mistress—and among others, some ships, in sight…" (quoted in The Scotish (sic) Musical Museum, 1839 edition, vol. III p. 300, available at archive.org). We'll have to wait and see what the Peter Buchan MS text reveals if you can get a copy of it, but so far the ships look like part of the wooer's attempt to win Barbara by impressing her with his wealth, before he falls sick, not bequests left to her when he knows he is dying.

By the way, on the same page of the SMM where C.K. Sharpe is quoted, there is a four-stanza military parody of BA from 1752. (I think this one really is a parody, not a burlesque.) The model seems to be Ramsay's version or something like it – it starts "It fell about", which seems to come from songs with a Martinmas setting (for example "Get Up and Bar the Door"), although it's not actually how Ramsay's first line is worded (does it suggest that Ramsay's text was subject to a bit of variation in singing?) and later on has a line with "dinna ye mind" like Ramsay's accusation stanza.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 May 15 - 12:13 PM

Richie,
I'm probably stating the obvious but Little Johnny Green is very likely a development of 'Sir John Grehme'.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 May 15 - 11:24 AM

Hi Anne,
I'm afraid as you will know, BA is the most widely sung and published of all the ballads, and whilst I spent an evening looking through the printed copies I don't have the time to do the same with the hundreds of oral copies. Richie is doing an admiral job with this.

I do sing the ballads but I've never been attracted to ballads like BA. I prefer the more magical ones like Tam Lin, Two Sisters, Cruel Mother, Maid and the Palmer.

Generally speaking in answer to your question, a lot of editing, rewriting and mixing and matching of the ballads went on in the 18th and early 19th centuries, by hacks, by sophisticated amateurs like Mrs Brown and Elizabeth St Clair, and indeed by the ballad editors themselves. Most of the ballad editors eventually confessed to this but poor old Peter was reviled because he insisted every word was from the source singers which of course is ludicrous.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 May 15 - 11:16 AM

I don't think the word 'parody' is accurate here. A parody usually introduces another theme or element. I think the word 'burlesque' is much better. A burlesque either alters the words slightly in some way to make them comic but retains the same plot and theme, or keeps the song pretty much as was and the burlesque is all in the performance. Of course there are different degrees of this. There are burlesques of many of the more common Child Ballads, like George Collins, Lord Lovell and Lord Randall. I will look into this when I have more time but my point was that apart from the proclaimed burlesque of the 19thc already mentioned the early versions show other hallmarks of burlesque, but this is only my opinion.

Richie,
I don't think Buchan's version is in the Harvard Ms. It's in the BL ms.
It's titled 'Bonny Barbara Allan' FL 'In Scarling town where I was bound' 41v and in the ballad she is referred to as 'Babie Allan'. I didn't have time to copy it out but I have seen it. The last verse mentions a 'Captain Green'. Peter had an extensive library and seems to have drawn on multiple copies for his heavily edited versions. He will have had a copy of the 18thc versions as one was printed in Aberdeen in 1775 (BL 1346 m 7 16b). Child had a copy of Peter's version but chose not to include it. I wonder why!!

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 05 May 15 - 10:59 AM

Or even the Dave Allen key.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Jim Brown
Date: 05 May 15 - 10:41 AM

> I have a copy of the 1855 parody …

Is that "Barbara Allan THE CRUEL" on the Glasgow Broadside Ballads site? Dated 1855 and apparently "drawing crowded audiences at all the different theatres and concerts in the kingdom". Barbara laughs and then lives on to find "another spark". But she is eventually buried beside the young man (born in Reading town) who died for love of her: "They buried him in the church porch, / When she died laid her beside 'un, / For she wished to be his bride in death, / Though in life she could'nt abide 'un, / Though in life she could'nt abide 'un."

It also has a verse that maybe hints at the legacy motif (?): "When she was gone he gave a grunt, / In expression of his sorrow; / In his will left Barbara all his blunt, / And then he died to-morrow, / And then he died to-morrow."

It's printed alongside Ramsay's text, which comes with an introductory paragraph arguing that the "old Scottish set" of the ballad is the original and Percy's is a fabrication derived from it.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Lighter
Date: 05 May 15 - 07:54 AM

It's like the Francis Scott Key.

But you knew that.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 15 - 07:47 AM

What key is it usually played in? Just so we can refer to it as the Barbara Allen Key...

Subject: Lyr Add: BARBARA ALLAN
From: GUEST,Anne Neilson
Date: 05 May 15 - 05:56 AM

Richie, my version is actually Greig-Duncan's B version -- which appears with full text in Bronson as his no.127; he also makes the comment that the second part of the tune "suggests Rio Grande".
G-D's A version (from Duncan's sister Mrs Margaret Gillespie) has the Martinmas time opening, whereas the B version (which Greig got from Mrs Cruickshank of Greciehill) opens with "In Scotland I was born and bred". In his notes to the song, Greig says, "Our first version seems to derive from Bishop Percy's copy. The second represents a traditional version." He goes on to say "the air usually recorded in the traditional field is a different one, with more character, and having a quaint repeat in true folk-song style."

Here are my words, which over a period have deviated slightly from the original text.

1) In Scotland I was born and bred.
    In London I was dwelling.
    I fell in love with a nice young girl
    And her name was Barbara Allan, Allan,
    And her name was Barbara Alla.

2) I courted her for seven long years
    Till I could court no longer.
    Then I grew sick and very very ill
    And I sent for my false true lover etc.

3) Oh slowly she put on her clothes
    And slowly she came nigh him
    And when she came to his bedside
    She said, 'Young man, you are dying etc.'

4) 'Dying, my love, that canna be;
    One kiss from you would cure me.'
    'One kiss from me that ne'er call be
    Though your hard heart lies aching etc.'

5) He turned his back toward the wall
    And his face to Barbara Allan,
    'Adieu to you, and adieu to all
    And adieu to Barbara Allan etc.

6) It's look ye up at my bedhead --
    There ye will see hanging
    A guinea gold watch and a silver chain
    And gie that to Barbara Allan etc.

7) And look ye soon at my bed foot --
    There ye will see standing
    A china basin fu' o tears
    And gie that to Barbara Allan etc.

8) She hadna gone a mile or twa
    When she heard the dead bell tolling
    And every toll it seemed to say
    Hard-hearted Barbara Allan etc.

9) Oh mother, mak' my bed for me,
    Ye'll mak' it lang and narrow.
    My true love died for me today --
    I will die for him tomorrow etc.

10) Her mother then she made her bed
      Wi' muckle grief and sorrow.
      She laid her doon to rise nae mair
    And she died for her ain true lover etc.

Spelling inconsistencies are entirely mine!

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Richie
Date: 04 May 15 - 08:34 PM

Hi,

The letter printed in "Old Songs from Clarksburg, W. Va., 1918" dates Barbara Allen back to 1777.

Letter to Anna Richardson:

dear friend May God bless you i take the time to rite you a few lines
we are all well as usual and hope you the same dont think hard for me not riting soner. Well, i will send you your song ballets, the song of littel jonie Green it is one a hunderd years old it was sung 1777 as near as i can guess.

Rachel Fogg, West Virginia

Richardson says, "Other ballads sung for me were "The Sad Ballet of Little Johnny Green" (a version of "Barbara Allen"), . . "

Unfortuately, as far as I know neither Richardson or Cox (his version J, no text given) printed it from Fogg or McAtee, two singers who knew it under that title. Does anyone know of a version under this title? Cox says only that it's similar to his version C.
I believe that versions from the US/Canada rival the broadside version of c. 1690, although this may not be proven. I am compiling
North American versions by age to get some results on the opening stanzas which may be the key for dating this ballad.

Richie

Subject: Lyr Add: BARBRY ALLEN
From: Richie
Date: 04 May 15 - 08:24 PM

Hi,

I'm posting this version that was submitted by BigDaddy- I assume for this thread, and the excellent family lineage that precedes it. It is traced back to 1700s in Virginia. I did change her name to "Barbry Allen" since it was sung that way. TY BigDaddy, here it is:

Here is the song as I transcribed it from the singing of my mother and great aunts. This was handed down from at least as far back as my great-great-great grandmother Rebecca (Hubbard) Johnson (b. 1792 in VA). From her it was passed to my great-great grandmother Ona Lacey (Johnson) Bishop, to my great grandmother Adeline (Bishop) Puckett, to my grandmother Lula (Puckett) Turner (and her sisters), to my mother, Ruby (Turner) Clark. And then to me. The Johnsons and Pucketts were originally from Tennessee. By around 1855 they were living in Southern Illinois. They all, of course, pronounced it as "Barbry" Allen. This was one of several songs handed down through the same women. Others include "The Butcher Boy," "Gypsy Davy," "The Farmer's Wife and the Devil," and "The Farmer's Wife wrapped in Sheepskin."

Barbry Allen- from Rebecca (Hubbard) Johnson (b. 1792 in VA)

In Scarlet Town where I was born, there was a fair maid dwellin'
Made many a youth cry well a day, her name was Barbry Allen.

"Twas in the merry month of May when green buds they were swellin'
Young William came from the west country and courted Barbry Allen.

He sent a servant unto her, to the place where she was dwellin'
Saying, "My master sick bids me call for you, if your name be Barbry Allen."

Slowly, slowly got she up, and slowly went she nigh him,
But all she said, as she passed his bed, "Young man I think you're dyin."

He turned his pale face to the wall and he began a'cryin'
"Adieu, adieu, my dear friends all. Be kind to Barbry Allen."

Slowly, slowly she went home; she saw his pale corpse comin'.
"Lay down, lay down that corpse of clay that I may look upon him."

"Oh Mother, Mother, go make my bed. Go make it long and narrow.
Sweet William died for me today. I'll die for him tomorrow."

They buried William in the old church yard, they buried Barbry beside him.
Out of his grave grew a red, red rose, and out of hers, a briar.

They grew and grew up the old church wall, 'til they could grow no higher,
And at the top, twined in a lover's knot, a red rose and a briar.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Richie
Date: 04 May 15 - 08:16 PM

Hi,

Anne--I won't talk for Steve but it's interesting that the bequests are not part of the print versions (except for the "seven ships" stanza).

I've contacted the Houghton Library and will get them to send Buchan's 41 stanza version with, I assume, 20 stanzas devoted to the "gifts." This may take a few weeks tho.

So is your version similar to Grieg A that was discussed earlier in this thread? would you mind posting the text?

Steve- I'd also like you to list the parodies. I have a copy of the 1855 parody which doesn't much like a parody -- except for the laughing at his corpse-- which is rarely found in tradition.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: GUEST,Anne Neilson
Date: 04 May 15 - 07:23 PM

Hi, Steve.

Thanks for your clarification of publication dates, but I'd like to ask if you have any explanation as to how these various versions evolved into what singers were actually singing in later collections.

Please note that this is not in any way a criticism of your posts, but I'm coming to this as a ballad singer and I include Barbara Allan in my repertoire (in a version from the Scottish Greig-Duncan Collection which begins 'In Scotland I was born and bred/In London I was dwelling').
My version includes the bequests -- a guinea gold watch on a silver chain and, a china basin fu' o tears.

I'd very much like to hear your thoughts on how these accretions became part of ballad text, and I'd also love to know if you've ever been a singer of these great stories.

(This isn't an attempt at entrapment! I'm just curious to explore the connection between scholars and singers.)

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 04 May 15 - 06:56 PM

Okay here's a summary of what I found.
We start with the 1690 printing which has several copies but all the same printing house (Scarlet town-bound, 15v)

Then the mid 18thc reprints of this which are fairly numerous and carried on to about 1800 with the extra v on the end. Printed by the likes of the Diceys, White of Newcastle, and then Davenport c1800 (16v, again, Scarlet - bound)

Percy then publishes his slightly altered version c1765. The significant difference is changing 'bound' to 'born' in the first line, otherwise the differences between his and the Dicey copy are trivial. We have this version then by Fowler of Shaftesbury and some without imprint but 18thc (16v, Scarlet - born)

Then we get a longish rewrite some time in the 18thc that changes 'Scarlet' to 'Reading' a sort of reverse pun. My only copy of this is no imprint and mid 19thc unfortunately but I would say it seems to have given rise to both the Scots version and the later c1800 widely printed broadside. I will post this version later. (14v, Reading - born) This version is the only one to introduce the rose/briar motif)

Seemingly from this was made the Scots version which may first have appeared in a 1740 edition of Ramsey. It lacks the first verse. ( 9v)

Then we have the widely printed 19thc version which seems to appear c1800 with Pitts, Swindells, Kendrew followed by all the usual suspects like Catnach and all the Pitts/Catnach successors. (10v, Reading - born)

The Philadelphia Forget me not Songster c1842/3 version is the Scots version filled out with all sorts of commonplaces and repeats very much in the Peter Buchan style. (18v)

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 May 15 - 06:48 PM

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 03 May 15 - 10:31 AM

"The word 'traditional' is only useful when both the user and the audience have a good idea"
Thankfully we have a literature, a history of research and a pedigree to fall back on to sort out the wheat from the chaff as far as folk/traditional song is concerned.
There may come a time when those who would have us accept the misuse and misunderstanding of the terms as valid, produce their own literature and scholarship - not in my time, I hope.
Then we'll have to follow Bert Lloyd's advice:
"If "Little Boxes" and "The Red Flag" are folk songs, we need a new term to describe "The Outlandish Knight", "Searching for Lambs" and "The Coal-owner and the Pitman's Wife".
Jim Carroll
I would rather not follow Lloyds advice, his statement is bollocks, he lumps together two songs, one of which is social comment song[ little boxes], the other was the song sang at labour party conferences,they have little in common, it is exactly the nonsense that has reduced Lloyds credibility as a scholar.
please tell me why little boxes cannot be considered a folk song, but the coalminer and the pitmans wife can.

Subject: RE: Origins: Barbara Allen
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 04 May 15 - 05:47 PM

Richie
I'm going to email you what Chappell has to say on the matter in Roxburghe Ballads. I'm also doing a quick comparison of all the broadside versions I have copies of and will post the results as soon as I finish.